Guessing we can use this ticket to discuss ideas for other UI enhancements, and spin off new tickets as the ideas gain consensus.
Random thoughts:
1) Double-clicking a picture (such as on the saves tab) should open the image for full-size viewing.
2) Check for updates should be much more prominent and easier to access. Perhaps sticking it (and the help icon) in the upper right corner, in the same row as the tabs? Should the update check also download and apply the updates, restarting Bash afterwards?
3) Status bar buttons need a rollover effect to better indicate that they're clickable. Atm, they're too flat.
4) Should the Settings button open a window instead of a context menu?
5) Should enabling a tab auto-switch to that tab? (Btw, nice job with that and drag/dropping!)
6) Should the bash patch context items be hidden rather than grayed out on non-bash patches?
7) It seems redundant for Export Patch Config to be in the context menu and in the patch dialog.
8) It seems redundant for both "Don't Ghost" and "Ghost" to be in the context menu.
9) Should the Export / Import context items be merged? (i.e. "Mod Actions" -> "Names" -> "Export" or "Import"). It would add an extra depth to the menu, but remove an item from the rather large context menu.
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1) Should be easy enough. I can do this if it isn't done by the time I finish my current projects. I also think it might be nice to have a "Right Click->Save As" for the screenshot on the Saves Tab.
2) Move it wherever you think may be good. I had even toyed with making it an "automatic" thing. Since it's already multiprocessed, just have it fire off once on startup, then maybe once every 30 minutes or so(?) and maybe show a tooltip or something when an update is detected. Downloading and installing new updates sounds find, though I'm not sure how we'd deal with TESNexus's add system.
3) That shouldn't be too hard to do, just change the button style used on the status bar. I can do this here soon, as I'm already monkeying with the status bar (going to do drag-n-drop reordering of those as well).
4) Eventually, definitely. Initially it was just a menu since there weren't that many things to put there, but as we start adding more stuff in there we'll want a window/dialog. Plus then we can consolidate all the dialogues from the menus into one common dialog or something.
5) Maybe. Not for the Installers tab, but the others sure. But then that would bring the question of "why does it switch on some, but not the installers tab". And thanks, it was much easier than I had thought it would be. Applying the same stuff to the status bar dnd now.
6) I'm game. I've often thought about that. OTOH, seeing a grayed out "Rebuild Patch" might prompt the user to right click on the actual patch...but that wont be a problem if we make some sort of prominent "Rebuild Patch" button or something. A button that would bring up the patch dialog for the Bashed Patch, or if there are multiple, ask which one, or if there are none, create a new one a build that.
7) Meh, No opinion there.
8) "Don't Ghost" is for when Auto-Ghost is enabled and you don't want it ghosted, whereas "Ghost" is for when you don't want Auto-Ghosting, but you still want to ghost a specific plugin. Seems good enough to me.
9) I never use em, so again I can't speak to the usability of doing so.
Some thoughts of my own (If I get around to actually doing these, I'll make trackers for them specifically):
1) Some of the settings in the Mods tab are actually global settings. "TES4Edit Expert", "Debug Mode", "Lock Times", since these have an effect no matter what Tab you are on. My thoughts:
a) Start moving these global settings into the Settings Menu (dialog soon?)
b) Move these settings to context menus for the specific App the belong to. IE, the "TES4Edit Expert" would be under a context menu on the TES4Edit button.
c) Both of the above
2) There are some menu commands that are in awkward places. For example, the "Create new Bashed Patch" command is under the "item menu" rather than the "main Menu" of the Mods Tab. Seems to me creating a bashed patch is a "mods" action, rather than a "do this action on this specific mod", so it should be in the "main Menu" rather than "item Menu". There might be a few more that should be moved like this.
3) A menubar like suggested on the Forums. Not sure what we would put in here. Probably just a duplication of the "main Menu" and "item Menu" for the current tab, plus the "settings menu", plus a "help menu". I would make the menu optional, and preferably off by default.
4) Now that I've got the hang of adding Drag-n-Drop to various types of controls, I want to re-attempt it on the columns. This will be a bit harder, but I think I might be able to pull it off.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The reason being it is hard to navigate and remember. I used WB for the first time in 2007 or so. To this date I find it hard to remember where things are in the menus.
Responses to Waruddar's points and Lojewski's comments:
1) ["full screen" screenshot on click] - drop the screenshots tab, if not - allow users to configure paths where to locate them, possibly integrate with steam and fraps.
2) [big, prominent update button] - No tooltips! / Check for update 2/min is too frequent. I suggest a compromise of three times a week. The frequency of the poll should really be upto the user (preferences dialog). Installing new automatically MUST be optional. / There is plenty of space in the "tabs panel", enabling an optional update notification source or button could be useful to some.
3) [rollover-effect for statusbar buttons] Meh. Not opposed if it's subtle.
4) [clicking status-bar settings brings up dialog] Yes and no. I think there should be a Preferences item that brings up a new dialog. / not sure I want pop-up menus and preferences mixed unless the pop-up is solely to alter a user-setting. What is the point of duplicating the pop-up menus in preferences. Although... it could be useful.
5) [enable tab => switch to tab] Not in favor.
6) [hide bashed patch itemes on context menu for plugins] Yes. See my context-menu re-structure proposal.
7) [do not duplicate "Export Patch Config"] Not in favor.
8) [Ghost and Don't Ghost are redundant] Yes. See my context-menu re-structure proposal.
9) [merge Import / Export] Yes. See my context-menu re-structure proposal.
Responses to Lojewski's points:
1) [move app specific settings from item context pop-up menus to Preferences and app pop-up menus] Yes.
2) [move create bashed patch to columns context pop-up only] Not opposed.
3) [add a menubar] I like the minimal-crap-around-listed-items approach that has guided the gui design so far. Any additional bars or menus must be optional.
Last edit: tox2ik 2013-06-27
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Guessing we can use this ticket to discuss ideas for other UI enhancements, and spin off new tickets as the ideas gain consensus.
Random thoughts:
1) Double-clicking a picture (such as on the saves tab) should open the image for full-size viewing.
2) Check for updates should be much more prominent and easier to access. Perhaps sticking it (and the help icon) in the upper right corner, in the same row as the tabs? Should the update check also download and apply the updates, restarting Bash afterwards?
3) Status bar buttons need a rollover effect to better indicate that they're clickable. Atm, they're too flat.
4) Should the Settings button open a window instead of a context menu?
5) Should enabling a tab auto-switch to that tab? (Btw, nice job with that and drag/dropping!)
6) Should the bash patch context items be hidden rather than grayed out on non-bash patches?
7) It seems redundant for Export Patch Config to be in the context menu and in the patch dialog.
8) It seems redundant for both "Don't Ghost" and "Ghost" to be in the context menu.
9) Should the Export / Import context items be merged? (i.e. "Mod Actions" -> "Names" -> "Export" or "Import"). It would add an extra depth to the menu, but remove an item from the rather large context menu.
Response to waruddars:
1) Should be easy enough. I can do this if it isn't done by the time I finish my current projects. I also think it might be nice to have a "Right Click->Save As" for the screenshot on the Saves Tab.
2) Move it wherever you think may be good. I had even toyed with making it an "automatic" thing. Since it's already multiprocessed, just have it fire off once on startup, then maybe once every 30 minutes or so(?) and maybe show a tooltip or something when an update is detected. Downloading and installing new updates sounds find, though I'm not sure how we'd deal with TESNexus's add system.
3) That shouldn't be too hard to do, just change the button style used on the status bar. I can do this here soon, as I'm already monkeying with the status bar (going to do drag-n-drop reordering of those as well).
4) Eventually, definitely. Initially it was just a menu since there weren't that many things to put there, but as we start adding more stuff in there we'll want a window/dialog. Plus then we can consolidate all the dialogues from the menus into one common dialog or something.
5) Maybe. Not for the Installers tab, but the others sure. But then that would bring the question of "why does it switch on some, but not the installers tab". And thanks, it was much easier than I had thought it would be. Applying the same stuff to the status bar dnd now.
6) I'm game. I've often thought about that. OTOH, seeing a grayed out "Rebuild Patch" might prompt the user to right click on the actual patch...but that wont be a problem if we make some sort of prominent "Rebuild Patch" button or something. A button that would bring up the patch dialog for the Bashed Patch, or if there are multiple, ask which one, or if there are none, create a new one a build that.
7) Meh, No opinion there.
8) "Don't Ghost" is for when Auto-Ghost is enabled and you don't want it ghosted, whereas "Ghost" is for when you don't want Auto-Ghosting, but you still want to ghost a specific plugin. Seems good enough to me.
9) I never use em, so again I can't speak to the usability of doing so.
Some thoughts of my own (If I get around to actually doing these, I'll make trackers for them specifically):
1) Some of the settings in the Mods tab are actually global settings. "TES4Edit Expert", "Debug Mode", "Lock Times", since these have an effect no matter what Tab you are on. My thoughts:
a) Start moving these global settings into the Settings Menu (dialog soon?)
b) Move these settings to context menus for the specific App the belong to. IE, the "TES4Edit Expert" would be under a context menu on the TES4Edit button.
c) Both of the above
2) There are some menu commands that are in awkward places. For example, the "Create new Bashed Patch" command is under the "item menu" rather than the "main Menu" of the Mods Tab. Seems to me creating a bashed patch is a "mods" action, rather than a "do this action on this specific mod", so it should be in the "main Menu" rather than "item Menu". There might be a few more that should be moved like this.
3) A menubar like suggested on the Forums. Not sure what we would put in here. Probably just a duplication of the "main Menu" and "item Menu" for the current tab, plus the "settings menu", plus a "help menu". I would make the menu optional, and preferably off by default.
4) Now that I've got the hang of adding Drag-n-Drop to various types of controls, I want to re-attempt it on the columns. This will be a bit harder, but I think I might be able to pull it off.
I submit that the whole popup menu must be re-structured.
Like this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=M2YXErH2
The reason being it is hard to navigate and remember. I used WB for the first time in 2007 or so. To this date I find it hard to remember where things are in the menus.
Responses to Waruddar's points and Lojewski's comments:
1) ["full screen" screenshot on click] - drop the screenshots tab, if not - allow users to configure paths where to locate them, possibly integrate with steam and fraps.
2) [big, prominent update button] - No tooltips! / Check for update 2/min is too frequent. I suggest a compromise of three times a week. The frequency of the poll should really be upto the user (preferences dialog). Installing new automatically MUST be optional. / There is plenty of space in the "tabs panel", enabling an optional update notification source or button could be useful to some.
3) [rollover-effect for statusbar buttons] Meh. Not opposed if it's subtle.
4) [clicking status-bar settings brings up dialog] Yes and no. I think there should be a Preferences item that brings up a new dialog. / not sure I want pop-up menus and preferences mixed unless the pop-up is solely to alter a user-setting. What is the point of duplicating the pop-up menus in preferences. Although... it could be useful.
5) [enable tab => switch to tab] Not in favor.
6) [hide bashed patch itemes on context menu for plugins] Yes. See my context-menu re-structure proposal.
7) [do not duplicate "Export Patch Config"] Not in favor.
8) [Ghost and Don't Ghost are redundant] Yes. See my context-menu re-structure proposal.
9) [merge Import / Export] Yes. See my context-menu re-structure proposal.
Responses to Lojewski's points:
1) [move app specific settings from item context pop-up menus to Preferences and app pop-up menus] Yes.
2) [move create bashed patch to columns context pop-up only] Not opposed.
3) [add a menubar] I like the minimal-crap-around-listed-items approach that has guided the gui design so far. Any additional bars or menus must be optional.
Last edit: tox2ik 2013-06-27