nubus-pmac-users

[Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

Hello,

I have an old Powerbook 1400c/133 with a floppy drive, and a Xircom
PCMCIA Ethernet card. No CD drive is available. I can get Linux to boot
using the miBoot floppy images provided by this project, but no further
than the "cannot find root device" error. Linux appears to recognize the
Xircom card without a problem.

I'd like to get Debian running on this machine, ideally in a similar 
manner as Debian's boot/root floppies and then pulling in everything 
else via the network. Is there a way to do this?


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi Daniel,

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> I have an old Powerbook 1400c/133 with a floppy drive, and a Xircom
> PCMCIA Ethernet card. No CD drive is available. I can get Linux to boot
> using the miBoot floppy images provided by this project, but no further
> than the "cannot find root device" error. Linux appears to recognize the
> Xircom card without a problem.

It's a long time ago I tried to boot Linux from floppy in general.
AFAIR there was some tool available, which allowed to set the source of
the rootfs for a specific kernel image.
When the root device was set to /dev/fd0 (or alike) the kernel asked for
the next disk during boot.

However you will run into the problem that PB1400 floppy support on
Linux is unfortunately not available yet.
There might be a driver for it in m68k-linux, though it is coded in m68k
assembly and need to be ported to PPC (Further it is unclear whether the
PB1400 actually uses a SWIM2 floppy controller at all).

May be there is way from MacOS (there are boot disk freely available) by
putting the files required for installation to a special partition or
alike (swap a lot of floppies or make Internet working in MacOS)...
Files contained in miBoot floppy image can be used to boot Linux later
on (see
http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=388437&group_id=10972).

Good luck,

  Florian

PS: Instead of looking for a IDE CD drive, you may want to connect a
SCSI drive on the back. It's cheaper and easier to get.

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

Hi Florian,

On Thu, 2007 Aug 30 00:06:18 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> However you will run into the problem that PB1400 floppy support on
> Linux is unfortunately not available yet. There might be a driver for
> it in m68k-linux, though it is coded in m68k assembly and need to be
> ported to PPC (Further it is unclear whether the PB1400 actually uses
> a SWIM2 floppy controller at all).

I wasn't aware of the floppy-driver situation. So no-go on a root 
floppy, then.

Would it be possible to pull down a root fs via the network? 
(NFS-mounted root, writing a boot image to the HD via a TFTP utility, 
etc.?)

> May be there is way from MacOS (there are boot disk freely available) by
> putting the files required for installation to a special partition or
> alike (swap a lot of floppies or make Internet working in MacOS)...
> Files contained in miBoot floppy image can be used to boot Linux later
> on (see
> http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=388437&group_id=10972).

I just know this approach is going to be error-prone :]  I'd like to 
find a way where the bulk of the install is pulled over the network. 
(And MacOS doesn't recognize the Ethernet card, I'm afraid.)

Where can one obtain MacOS boot floppy images, however? I was under the 
impression that these were not freely distributable.

> PS: Instead of looking for a IDE CD drive, you may want to connect a
> SCSI drive on the back. It's cheaper and easier to get.

Even if I could find an external drive for sale---I've never seen it---I
couldn't justify getting one just for this machine, given the
proprietary connector.


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi Daniel,

Daniel Richard G. schrieb:
> Would it be possible to pull down a root fs via the network? 
> (NFS-mounted root, writing a boot image to the HD via a TFTP utility, 
> etc.?)

I guess NFS-mounted root sounds good.
Have done this with a newer embedded PPC board on Linux 2.6 recently.

Have a look at http://lxr.linux.no/source/Documentation/nfsroot.txt?v=2.4.28

> Where can one obtain MacOS boot floppy images, however? I was under the 
> impression that these were not freely distributable.

Haven't tried that method yet, but is supposed to work:
http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3cpan.2006.02.04.16.52.11.249779%40gimpelevich.san%2dfrancisco.ca.us%3e

>> PS: Instead of looking for a IDE CD drive, you may want to connect a
>> SCSI drive on the back. It's cheaper and easier to get.
> 
> Even if I could find an external drive for sale---I've never seen it---I
> couldn't justify getting one just for this machine, given the
> proprietary connector.

You can find an adapter to standard SCSI on eBay frequently.
I can borrow you mine, assuming you live in the area of Munich, Germany :)

   Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

On Thu, 2007 Aug 30 11:45:51 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> I guess NFS-mounted root sounds good.
> Have done this with a newer embedded PPC board on Linux 2.6 recently.
> 
> Have a look at http://lxr.linux.no/source/Documentation/nfsroot.txt?v=2.4.28

Okay, that looks doable.

Is there a way to edit the kernel command line on the boot floppy 
without ResEdit? (I don't have the tool available, and the mounted image 
shows "System Folder/System" to be an empty file.) I could hex-edit the 
image directly, but there is no way to make the string longer....

Also, just to be sure: It should be the contents of ramdisk.sarge.gz (on
the .iso) that should be exported as the NFS root, then?

> > Where can one obtain MacOS boot floppy images, however? I was under the 
> > impression that these were not freely distributable.
> 
> Haven't tried that method yet, but is supposed to work:
> http://news.gmane.org/find-root.php?message_id=%3cpan.2006.02.04.16.52.11.249779%40gimpelevich.san%2dfrancisco.ca.us%3e

I'll have to look at that one later, as Gmane appears to be down.

> You can find an adapter to standard SCSI on eBay frequently.
> I can borrow you mine, assuming you live in the area of Munich, Germany :)

That's a bit of a long walk for me :]  (Boston, USA here)


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Rod R. <ro...@my...>]

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> On Thu, 2007 Aug 30 11:45:51 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
>   
>> I guess NFS-mounted root sounds good.
>> Have done this with a newer embedded PPC board on Linux 2.6 recently.
>>
>> Have a look at http://lxr.linux.no/source/Documentation/nfsroot.txt?v=2.4.28
>>     
>
> Okay, that looks doable.
>
>   
Hi,
If you have a second Hard Drive you could "dd if=/path/to/debian.iso 
of=/dev/hdb" or hda depending on which device is your non-boot HD. You 
will need a second HD and a ribbon and perhaps another computer with 
gnu/linux or dd installed to make the HD. Then you can use one HD to 
boot from and the other as the "fake" cdrom. You will have to mount the 
"fake" cdrom manually as the debian installer will not detect the hda or 
hdb as a cdrom drive so you will have to use the alt or apple key and 
the left or right arrow keys to get into a tty. Then it is just a matter 
of mount /dev/hdb onto the target directory. Then the install will 
proceed. I think the external scsi cdrom is another great idea Florian 
had. I do not know if nfs install will work with nubus. I use nfs on BSD 
with nubus all the time but not to install never tested it. And TFTP it 
is a firmware thing. I can do TFTP from my SGI, or even my (cube ) new 
world mac but on nubus-pmac not yet :) If you could boot a ramdisk image 
and it allows network install that would be the best. Ram disk would 
need network support etc.
Cheers,
Rod Ross

---AV & Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM)---

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

Hi Rod,

On Thu, 2007 Aug 30 14:22:53 -0400, Rod Ross wrote:
> >   
> If you have a second Hard Drive you could "dd if=/path/to/debian.iso 
> of=/dev/hdb" or hda depending on which device is your non-boot HD. You 
> will need a second HD and a ribbon and perhaps another computer with 
> gnu/linux or dd installed to make the HD. Then you can use one HD to 
> boot from and the other as the "fake" cdrom. You will have to mount the 
> "fake" cdrom manually as the debian installer will not detect the hda or 
> hdb as a cdrom drive so you will have to use the alt or apple key and 
> the left or right arrow keys to get into a tty. Then it is just a matter 
> of mount /dev/hdb onto the target directory. Then the install will 
> proceed.

I must point out, this is a laptop, so connecting a second IDE disk is
not straightforward. (I'm not even sure how to get access to the
first/only disk; there are no obvious access panels.) Thanks for the 
idea, however.

> I think the external scsi cdrom is another great idea Florian 
> had. I do not know if nfs install will work with nubus. I use nfs on BSD 
> with nubus all the time but not to install never tested it. And TFTP it 
> is a firmware thing. I can do TFTP from my SGI, or even my (cube ) new 
> world mac but on nubus-pmac not yet :) If you could boot a ramdisk image 
> and it allows network install that would be the best. Ram disk would 
> need network support etc.

I don't see why nubus-pmac shouldn't be able to support an NFS root--- 
the Ethernet device here is already supported, and that's the hardest 
part. Unfortunately, the kernel on the distributed images does not 
appear to have NFS-root support compiled in :(  I may have to give 
tftpboot a try....


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> I must point out, this is a laptop, so connecting a second IDE disk is
> not straightforward. (I'm not even sure how to get access to the
> first/only disk; there are no obvious access panels.) Thanks for the 
> idea, however.

I don't know if a second IDE hard disk is possible at all (besides the
media bay). The PB1400 is quite easy to work with though.
Just move the speaker "grill" (pull up the left end a little bit and
then push it to the left; keyboard is loose now) and by removing a few
screws you'll gain access to all of the interesting parts of the hardware...

Well, there is another option: You may use a standard 2,5" to 3,5" IDE
adapter and connect the PB1400 hard disk to a standard PC.
Not as tricky as NFS from a simple floppy though :)

> I don't see why nubus-pmac shouldn't be able to support an NFS root--- 
> the Ethernet device here is already supported, and that's the hardest 
> part. Unfortunately, the kernel on the distributed images does not 
> appear to have NFS-root support compiled in :(  I may have to give 
> tftpboot a try....

*OUCH* I forgot about that. I can build a proper kernel for you. However
I haven't tried to create a miBoot floppy image yet.

   Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

On Fri, 2007 Aug 31 01:25:10 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> I don't know if a second IDE hard disk is possible at all (besides the
> media bay). The PB1400 is quite easy to work with though.
> Just move the speaker "grill" (pull up the left end a little bit and
> then push it to the left; keyboard is loose now) and by removing a few
> screws you'll gain access to all of the interesting parts of the hardware...

Interesting, yes, this works :)

> Well, there is another option: You may use a standard 2,5" to 3,5" IDE
> adapter and connect the PB1400 hard disk to a standard PC.
> Not as tricky as NFS from a simple floppy though :)

That's definitely a possibility---write an install image to the HD, and 
boot from that. I'd just have to find that adapter....

Would the procedure then be to write one of the .iso images directly to 
the HD, i.e.

	dd if=miboot_28NOV2006.iso of=/dev/hdc

? Or would you have to use a Mac-compatible partitioner first, and write 
the .iso to the first partition?

> > part. Unfortunately, the kernel on the distributed images does not 
> > appear to have NFS-root support compiled in :(  I may have to give 
> > tftpboot a try....
> 
> *OUCH* I forgot about that. I can build a proper kernel for you. However
> I haven't tried to create a miBoot floppy image yet.

Wouldn't it just be a matter of replacing the kernel file in the image? 
I thought the other kernels available for download were meant to be used 
this way.

Also, might it be easier to pull down a RAM-disk image via TFTP instead?
This could more directly use the netboot images provided by Debian,
which would be convenient. I've been looking over

	http://www.schnozzle.org/~coldwell/diskless/
	(see the "RAM disk root file system" section)

However, it's not clear how one would boot a kernel from a floppy, and 
then get an initrd from TFTP, instead of getting both from TFTP. I can't 
find much documentation on this.


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Daniel Richard G. schrieb:
>> *OUCH* I forgot about that. I can build a proper kernel for you. However
>> I haven't tried to create a miBoot floppy image yet.
> 
> Wouldn't it just be a matter of replacing the kernel file in the image? 
> I thought the other kernels available for download were meant to be used 
> this way.

Correct I remember the comment in the release notes ("a writeable 
DiskCopy image, StuffIt compressed").
I will try to do that on the weekend.

> Also, might it be easier to pull down a RAM-disk image via TFTP instead?

As Rod already said, no TFTP-support in miBoot or Linux for rootfs 
deployment.

Cheers,

   Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi,

> *OUCH* I forgot about that. I can build a proper kernel for you. However
> I haven't tried to create a miBoot floppy image yet.

I just put some NFS-root capable kernel images for miBoot, MkLinux and
BootX here:
http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/nubus-pmac/test/2.4.35/

I havn't tried them yet. miBoot floppy and ISO image is still to do.

Cheers,

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

On Fri, 2007 Aug 31 20:51:45 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> I just put some NFS-root capable kernel images for miBoot, MkLinux and
> BootX here:
> http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/nubus-pmac/test/2.4.35/
> 
> I havn't tried them yet. miBoot floppy and ISO image is still to do.

Thanks for putting these together. Only problem is, according to
DiskImageMounter, the new kernel won't fit on the floppy image :(

(IIRC, the NFS feature is fairly complex, and so adds a lot of size to 
the kernel. Part of the reason why I wanted to try initrd-via-TFTP.)

Can miBoot handle a bzImage kernel? Maybe that would get it small
enough. Or, alternately, maybe I should just start looking for that
3.5-to-2.5" IDE adapter... :]


--Daniel


P.S.: My net access will be a bit spotty over the weekend, so please 
don't worry if my replies take a day or two to arrive. At the very worst 
I'll catch up on Monday morning here.

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi Daniel,

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> Thanks for putting these together. Only problem is, according to
> DiskImageMounter, the new kernel won't fit on the floppy image :(

I expected this already.
So I will try to get rid of some features to make the kernel smaller.
May be some useless feature, which is not used for installation.
I assume Tobias also did this for the images he build.

> (IIRC, the NFS feature is fairly complex, and so adds a lot of size to 
> the kernel. Part of the reason why I wanted to try initrd-via-TFTP.)

No, I don't think so. NFS client and server support was enabled already
in "older" kernels. The only missing option was to rootfs over NFS.

> Can miBoot handle a bzImage kernel? Maybe that would get it small
> enough.

AFAIK it is not possible.

> Or, alternately, maybe I should just start looking for that
> 3.5-to-2.5" IDE adapter... :]

I think I can build a proper floppy image for you on the weekend.

Cheers,

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi,

Florian Boelstler wrote:
> I think I can build a proper floppy image for you on the weekend.

OK, I just uploaded a working miBoot-based floppy image for
rootfs-over-NFS. See
http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/nubus-pmac/test/2.4.35/miBoot-2.4.35.1-nfs-floppy.img
On Linux it can be written to a blank floppy disk with:
dd if=miBoot-2.4.35.1-nfs-floppy.img of=/dev/fd0

Using hexedit I set the kernel command line to:
root=/dev/nfs nfsroot=nubus ip=dhcp video=nbpmacfb
keyboard_sends_linux_keycodes=1

Through this the kernel tries to get an IP address by querying a local
DHCP server. If successful it tries to mount /tftpboot/nubus over NFS.

I successfully tested it on a PowerBook 5300cs and a old Debian Woody
initrd, which was laying around on my workstation.

Cheers,

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi Daniel,

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> But I'm hesitant to buy an expansion card for this machine, because I 
> won't be able to use it anywhere else. At least PCMCIA cards are 
> interchangeable between many different machines.

I don't know the current prices on the second hand marked for these
extensions.
I got a similar extension for my Performa 5200 for 8,50 $ on eBay.

> I couldn't find any information on removing the hard disk, however. How 
> do you do this? I've removed the two screws at the right of the "tray" 
> that holds the disk, but then what are you supposed to do? Lift it up a 
> bit and slide it to the right, or lift it up 90 degrees, etc.? I don't 
> see any kind of release mechanism for the connector at the left end.

Yes, this is the most complicated part (or getting it back in again:)
And doing it for the first time is somehow scary. Just lift it up,
almost 90 degrees is fine (but not more!). At the left end (where the
connector is) you should be able to spot a blank plastic belt. This is
used to aid in pulling the connector back on the new drive.
For removing the cable softly push away the light brown bar downwards
(i.e. the female plug attached to the foil cable), when the drive itself
is in a upright position.

For connecting the drive again yank the plastic belt while pushing the
drive tray in the opposite direction. Make sure that pins properly
match. Usually the plug isn't completely connected at this stage. So
softly push the light brown bar towards the drive until you don't see
the blank pins anymore.

Good luck!

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

On Thu, 2007 Sep 06 00:00:55 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> I don't know the current prices on the second hand marked for these
> extensions. I got a similar extension for my Performa 5200 for 8,50 $
> on eBay.

And then $5-10 for shipping... it adds up :]

> Yes, this is the most complicated part (or getting it back in again:)
> And doing it for the first time is somehow scary. Just lift it up,
> almost 90 degrees is fine (but not more!). At the left end (where the
> connector is) you should be able to spot a blank plastic belt. This is
> used to aid in pulling the connector back on the new drive.
> For removing the cable softly push away the light brown bar downwards
> (i.e. the female plug attached to the foil cable), when the drive itself
> is in a upright position.
> 
> For connecting the drive again yank the plastic belt while pushing the
> drive tray in the opposite direction. Make sure that pins properly
> match. Usually the plug isn't completely connected at this stage. So
> softly push the light brown bar towards the drive until you don't see
> the blank pins anymore.

Yep! That did the trick!

Gah, that part of the Powerbook was not well-designed. I miss the 
way some of the older Thinkpads arranged the insides.

I will find a 3.5-to-2.5" adapter and attempt installation from an .iso
image dd'ed to the disk. I'll report my success or failure on this list.

Florian, very kind thanks for your help :)


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

Hi Florian,

Thanks for putting together the new floppy image for me :)

On Mon, 2007 Sep 03 00:10:27 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> Hmpf, I just realized that this cannot work with all PowerBooks that use
> a PCMCIA card for network connectivity (Sorry Daniel!).
> PCMCIA is activated later on during the boot process (by some userspace
> tool that is sitting in the rootfs, which is a nice chicken-and-egg
> problem btw;).
> 
> I don't think that this behaviour is easy to change.

Argh... From what I can see, PCMCIA initialization is usually done in an
initrd in cases like this, and this would work with a root floppy---but
then the lack of floppy support is the problem again :(

Oh well. At least the setup is useful for newer Macs without a CD drive.
For me, it looks like installing from the HD is going to be the only 
option.

Florian, I have a question regarding the disassembly of the 1400: When
you remove the speaker grille, do you have to unscrew that metal panel
on the right? The keyboard does not look like it will lift out without 
doing something else.


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

On Tue, 2007 Sep 04 23:23:05 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> You may find a internal Ethernet extension by coincidence on eBay.
> It will be detected during boot and therefore usable by the miBoot
> floppy image (this is why my PB5300 and potentially the Performa 5200
> works for that approach).
> 
> For support Ethernet devices, see
> http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/8390net.html

So that's what that little plastic panel on the back is for!

But I'm hesitant to buy an expansion card for this machine, because I 
won't be able to use it anywhere else. At least PCMCIA cards are 
interchangeable between many different machines. I think the HD-install 
route will be best.

> The keyboard is loose as soon as the grill is removed.
> Just lift the keyboard at the upper edge along the functions keys.

Ah, okay. This works for me now---it was just a little stuck.

> When you remove the grill, you should immediately see a black painted
> metal bar with four screws in it. When you unscrew these and another two
> hidden under the keyboard, you gain access to the CPU, memory extensions
> and the yet unused extension port.
> 
> There is a fine manual from Apple:
> http://manuals.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/powerbooks/0309034APB1400UM.PDF
> See pages 151 - 175.
> 
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=50593

Excellent reference material! I am glad that Apple still makes it 
available. Thanks for the link.

I couldn't find any information on removing the hard disk, however. How 
do you do this? I've removed the two screws at the right of the "tray" 
that holds the disk, but then what are you supposed to do? Lift it up a 
bit and slide it to the right, or lift it up 90 degrees, etc.? I don't 
see any kind of release mechanism for the connector at the left end.


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi Daniel,

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> On Mon, 2007 Sep 03 00:10:27 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> Argh... From what I can see, PCMCIA initialization is usually done in an
> initrd in cases like this, and this would work with a root floppy---but
> then the lack of floppy support is the problem again :(

Exactly.

You may find a internal Ethernet extension by coincidence on eBay.
It will be detected during boot and therefore usable by the miBoot
floppy image (this is why my PB5300 and potentially the Performa 5200
works for that approach).

For support Ethernet devices, see
http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/8390net.html

> Florian, I have a question regarding the disassembly of the 1400: When
> you remove the speaker grille, do you have to unscrew that metal panel
> on the right? The keyboard does not look like it will lift out without 
> doing something else.

The keyboard is loose as soon as the grill is removed.
Just lift the keyboard at the upper edge along the functions keys.

When you remove the grill, you should immediately see a black painted
metal bar with four screws in it. When you unscrew these and another two
hidden under the keyboard, you gain access to the CPU, memory extensions
and the yet unused extension port.

There is a fine manual from Apple:
http://manuals.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/powerbooks/0309034APB1400UM.PDF
See pages 151 - 175.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=50593

Cheers,

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> Is there a way to edit the kernel command line on the boot floppy 
> without ResEdit? (I don't have the tool available, and the mounted image 
> shows "System Folder/System" to be an empty file.) I could hex-edit the 
> image directly, but there is no way to make the string longer....

Sorry, I don't know. You should be able to find ResEdit somewhere on the
net. Never tried modifying the floppy images so far.

> Also, just to be sure: It should be the contents of ramdisk.sarge.gz (on
> the .iso) that should be exported as the NFS root, then?

Yes, this should load the Debian Installer.
In principle you can replace it with any available root disk image.
May be you want to use the Debian Etch netboot Images.

> That's a bit of a long walk for me :]  (Boston, USA here)

Oh yes :)

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Daniel R. G. <sk...@is...>]

On Thu, 2007 Aug 30 20:55:31 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I don't know. You should be able to find ResEdit somewhere on the
> net. Never tried modifying the floppy images so far.

Looks like it's available only for MacOS Classic. (I can get access to 
an OSX system, but can't do anything there.)

Hex-editing the floppy image seems to work---there weren't any checksum 
errors. However, the kernel on the boot floppy image doesn't have 
NFS-root support compiled in (it did not recognize root=/dev/nfs), so 
it's a failure for now :(

> > Also, just to be sure: It should be the contents of ramdisk.sarge.gz (on
> > the .iso) that should be exported as the NFS root, then?
> 
> Yes, this should load the Debian Installer.
> In principle you can replace it with any available root disk image.
> May be you want to use the Debian Etch netboot Images.

Debian Etch would be very nice! But the kernel will always have to be 
2.4, compiled from the nubus-pmac tree, yes?


--Daniel

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> However, the kernel on the boot floppy image doesn't have 
> NFS-root support compiled in (it did not recognize root=/dev/nfs), so 
> it's a failure for now :(

I just verified, that option is unfortunately turned off.
We also need to find out how to create a floppy image using a possibly
stripped down kernel image.

> Debian Etch would be very nice! But the kernel will always have to be 
> 2.4, compiled from the nubus-pmac tree, yes?

Yes, there is no 2.6.x kernel yet.

Cheers,

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Hi,

Florian Boelstler wrote:
> I successfully tested it on a PowerBook 5300cs and a old Debian Woody
> initrd, which was laying around on my workstation.

Hmpf, I just realized that this cannot work with all PowerBooks that use
a PCMCIA card for network connectivity (Sorry Daniel!).
PCMCIA is activated later on during the boot process (by some userspace
tool that is sitting in the rootfs, which is a nice chicken-and-egg
problem btw;).

I don't think that this behaviour is easy to change.

Cheers,

  Florian

Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Rod R. <ro...@my...>]

Hi Daniel and Florian,

Daniel Richard G. wrote:
> On Fri, 2007 Aug 31 01:25:10 +0200, Florian Boelstler wrote:
>   
>> I don't know if a second IDE hard disk is possible at all (besides the
>> media bay). The PB1400 is quite easy to work with though.
>> Just move the speaker "grill" (pull up the left end a little bit and
>> then push it to the left; keyboard is loose now) and by removing a few
>> screws you'll gain access to all of the interesting parts of the hardware...
>>     
>
> Interesting, yes, this works :)
>
>   
>> Well, there is another option: You may use a standard 2,5" to 3,5" IDE
>> adapter and connect the PB1400 hard disk to a standard PC.
>> Not as tricky as NFS from a simple floppy though :)
>>     
>
> That's definitely a possibility---write an install image to the HD, and 
> boot from that. I'd just have to find that adapter....
>
> Would the procedure then be to write one of the .iso images directly to 
> the HD, i.e.
>
> 	dd if=miboot_28NOV2006.iso of=/dev/hdc
>
> ? Or would you have to use a Mac-compatible partitioner first, and write 
> the .iso to the first partition?
>
>   
You my use the whole disk such as /dev/hdb. This would be the debian 
etch netinstall iso or business card iso. Doing this only "fakes" a 
cdrom device. I do not recommend booting from the same device and using 
a separate partition on that same device as the partition containing the 
debian netinstall or business card iso as the ramdisk boot installer. It 
might work since ybin or yaboot or quik are not installed. Not sure of 
command sequence for miboot boot loader but I would guess it would have 
problems . I have tried this "fake" cdrom on a Alpha with etch and it 
works. If you have a netinstall that you can boot than you are set you 
can just dd that to the boot disk drive and install to the other one. 
But if the image will not boot you might have problems. Use "dd 
if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdb" to zero data on the disc if you experience 
problems with the disc you wrote to.
>>> part. Unfortunately, the kernel on the distributed images does not 
>>> appear to have NFS-root support compiled in :(  I may have to give 
>>> tftpboot a try....
>>>       
>> *OUCH* I forgot about that. I can build a proper kernel for you. However
>> I haven't tried to create a miBoot floppy image yet.
>>     
>
> Wouldn't it just be a matter of replacing the kernel file in the image? 
> I thought the other kernels available for download were meant to be used 
> this way.
>
> Also, might it be easier to pull down a RAM-disk image via TFTP instead?
> This could more directly use the netboot images provided by Debian,
> which would be convenient. I've been looking over
>
> 	http://www.schnozzle.org/~coldwell/diskless/
>   
http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/ 
<http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/#bootx>
Great read for open firmware macs
http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/doc/netboot.html 
<http://www.alaska.net/%7Eerbenson/doc/netboot.html>
> 	(see the "RAM disk root file system" section)
>
> However, it's not clear how one would boot a kernel from a floppy, and 
> then get an initrd from TFTP, instead of getting both from TFTP. I can't 
> find much documentation on this.
>
>
> --Daniel
>
>   
TFTP is normally implemented in Open firmware. Several archs, ports or 
whatever you want to call different computers allow TFTP from the BIOS. 
Such as my SGI Indy and my Alpha PWS have TFTP clients built into the 
ROM . When you get into closed firmware such as on the your PB1400 or my 
3 nubus (really it is PDS) powermacs TFTP would need to be started after 
a kernel has already loaded thus defeating the purpose. Perhaps what you 
are really looking for is a ram disk install image with network 
capabilities built in, basically a netinstall you can boot. Booting 
being the plus.

Florian do you know Simon Horman ? He was the Debian builder for the 
nubus-images if he is still at debian he might be the one to contact to 
get it back in debian. Or Sven Luther.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2005/11/msg00336.html

Cheers,
Rod Ross

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Re: [Nubus-pmac-users] CD-less PB1400 challenge

[Florian B. <eup...@ar...>]

Rod Ross schrieb:
> Florian do you know Simon Horman ? He was the Debian builder for the 
> nubus-images if he is still at debian he might be the one to contact to 
> get it back in debian. Or Sven Luther.
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2005/11/msg00336.html

I know both names, but I was always wondering about the code flow into 
Debian. AFAIK this happened before I joined this project.
Further on I guess they are not registered on the mailing list...

I setup the CVS repository for the debianized kernel though it isn't 
up-to-date anymore.

Anyway, this is definitive something we should try to reach again.

Cheers,

   Florian