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From: Arnout E. <no...@bz...> - 2015-05-29 15:33:36
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Hello, I'd like to start moving away from sourceforge. I already accept PR's and issues on https://github.com/raboof/notion It would be nice to have something nicer for the site and docs as described at https://sourceforge.net/p/notion/mailman/message/32591869 We'd need to move the mailinglists somewhere, Google Groups might be a good candidate. Any other suggestions? Kind regards, Arnout |
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From: tot-to <not...@to...> - 2015-05-31 00:34:57
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Hi, I have seen a couple of free software projects with discussion on google groups. The page on groups.google.com didn't look like a maillist subscription page, but more like a forum. When I'm lucky and a page is displayed in a language, I can understand, I can't see any "subscribe" button and "New Topic" button redirects to the login page, excluding me from the discussion, because I'm not a Google user. Why you don't like the sourceforge maillists? They use a standart mailman, which does not impose using other services. -----Original Message----- Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 17:26:51 +0200 From: Arnout Engelen <no...@bz...> To: notion-general <not...@li...> Subject: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge Hello, I'd like to start moving away from sourceforge. I already accept PR's and issues on https://github.com/raboof/notion It would be nice to have something nicer for the site and docs as described at https://sourceforge.net/p/notion/mailman/message/32591869 We'd need to move the mailinglists somewhere, Google Groups might be a good candidate. Any other suggestions? Kind regards, Arnout |
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From: Arnout E. <no...@bz...> - 2015-05-31 09:31:30
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 2:34 AM, tot-to <not...@to...> wrote: > The page on groups.google.com didn't look like a maillist > subscription page, but more like a forum. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. > I can't see any "subscribe" button and "New Topic" button redirects to the > login page, excluding me from the discussion, because I'm not a Google user. > It would be nice to allow people to participate even without a google account - it's indeed pretty neat that sf.net allows you to subscribe without requiring a sf.net account. Why you don't like the sourceforge maillists? They use a standart > mailman, which does not impose using other services. > I agree the migration doesn't need to be big-bang (as said I already accept tickets and PR's on github, for example, and would love it when someone could help moving the site and documentation). Still, I'd like a nicer home for the lists :). Arnout > -----Original Message----- > Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 17:26:51 +0200 > From: Arnout Engelen <no...@bz...> > To: notion-general <not...@li...> > Subject: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge > > > Hello, > > I'd like to start moving away from sourceforge. > > I already accept PR's and issues on https://github.com/raboof/notion > > It would be nice to have something nicer for the site and docs as > described at https://sourceforge.net/p/notion/mailman/message/32591869 > > We'd need to move the mailinglists somewhere, Google Groups might be a > good candidate. > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Kind regards, > > Arnout > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Notion-general mailing list > Not...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/notion-general > |
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From: tot-to <not...@to...> - 2015-05-31 10:42:50
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Hi Arnout, > That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. Perhaps, it would be a good thing, if forum-like interface is supplemental to the maillist, but not when it substitutes the maillist. > It would be nice to allow people to participate even without a google > account - it's indeed pretty neat that sf.net allows you to subscribe > without requiring a sf.net account. I belive it's a general Google's attitute. For instance I have quite a few XMPP contacts from Google. At random login to their account, they can receive a suggestion to try so-called Hangouts. If they agree, Google silently disables XMPP for them, while I receive an "authorization rejected" message and silently disappear from their list. Google is one of those proprietary services, that tries to vendor lock-in existing users and to impose thier services to others. Please don't migrate the maillist to Google. > Still, I'd like a nicer home for the lists :). Could you please clarify what do you mean by nicer? Or why sourceforge and/or mailman is not good enough? -----Original Message----- Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 11:31:21 +0200 From: Arnout Engelen <no...@bz...> To: tot-to <not...@to...> Cc: notion-general <not...@li...> Subject: Re: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 2:34 AM, tot-to <not...@to...> wrote: > The page on groups.google.com didn't look like a maillist > subscription page, but more like a forum. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. > I can't see any "subscribe" button and "New Topic" button redirects to the > login page, excluding me from the discussion, because I'm not a Google user. > It would be nice to allow people to participate even without a google account - it's indeed pretty neat that sf.net allows you to subscribe without requiring a sf.net account. Why you don't like the sourceforge maillists? They use a standart > mailman, which does not impose using other services. > I agree the migration doesn't need to be big-bang (as said I already accept tickets and PR's on github, for example, and would love it when someone could help moving the site and documentation). Still, I'd like a nicer home for the lists :). Arnout > -----Original Message----- > Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 17:26:51 +0200 > From: Arnout Engelen <no...@bz...> > To: notion-general <not...@li...> > Subject: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge > > > Hello, > > I'd like to start moving away from sourceforge. > > I already accept PR's and issues on https://github.com/raboof/notion > > It would be nice to have something nicer for the site and docs as > described at https://sourceforge.net/p/notion/mailman/message/32591869 > > We'd need to move the mailinglists somewhere, Google Groups might be a > good candidate. > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Kind regards, > > Arnout > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Notion-general mailing list > Not...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/notion-general > |
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From: Thomas K. <tk...@gi...> - 2015-05-31 10:55:12
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 11:31:21AM +0200, Arnout Engelen wrote: > I agree the migration doesn't need to be big-bang (as said I already accept > tickets and PR's on github, for example, and would love it when someone > could help moving the site and documentation). Still, I'd like a nicer home > for the lists :). I think savannah provides mailing lists as well. Thomas |
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From: Arnout E. <ar...@bz...> - 2015-05-31 17:13:11
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Unless I'm mistaken Savannah only allows projects with a GPL-compatible license, which the Ion license (which Notion is under, much to our collective chagrin) unfortunately is not. Arnout On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Thomas Klausner <tk...@gi...> wrote: > On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 11:31:21AM +0200, Arnout Engelen wrote: > > I agree the migration doesn't need to be big-bang (as said I already > accept > > tickets and PR's on github, for example, and would love it when someone > > could help moving the site and documentation). Still, I'd like a nicer > home > > for the lists :). > > I think savannah provides mailing lists as well. > Thomas > |
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From: Wojciech A. <ani...@co...> - 2015-05-31 12:35:56
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It would be a sad move to migrate to Google, or any other login-requiring service. On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 10:42:41AM +0000, tot-to wrote: > Hi Arnout, > > > That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. > > Perhaps, it would be a good thing, if forum-like interface is > supplemental to the maillist, but not when it substitutes the maillist. > > > It would be nice to allow people to participate even without a google > > account - it's indeed pretty neat that sf.net allows you to subscribe > > without requiring a sf.net account. > > I belive it's a general Google's attitute. For instance I have quite a > few XMPP contacts from Google. At random login to their account, they > can receive a suggestion to try so-called Hangouts. If they agree, > Google silently disables XMPP for them, while I receive an > "authorization rejected" message and silently disappear from their list. > > Google is one of those proprietary services, that tries to vendor > lock-in existing users and to impose thier services to others. Please > don't migrate the maillist to Google. > > > Still, I'd like a nicer home for the lists :). > > Could you please clarify what do you mean by nicer? Or why sourceforge > and/or mailman is not good enough? > > -----Original Message----- > Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 11:31:21 +0200 > From: Arnout Engelen <no...@bz...> > To: tot-to <not...@to...> > Cc: notion-general <not...@li...> > Subject: Re: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from > Sourceforge > > > On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 2:34 AM, tot-to <not...@to...> wrote: > > > The page on groups.google.com didn't look like a maillist > > subscription page, but more like a forum. > > > That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. > > > > I can't see any "subscribe" button and "New Topic" button redirects to the > > login page, excluding me from the discussion, because I'm not a Google user. > > > > It would be nice to allow people to participate even without a google > account - it's indeed pretty neat that sf.net allows you to subscribe > without requiring a sf.net account. > > Why you don't like the sourceforge maillists? They use a standart > > mailman, which does not impose using other services. > > > > I agree the migration doesn't need to be big-bang (as said I already > accept tickets and PR's on github, for example, and would love it when > someone could help moving the site and documentation). Still, I'd like > a nicer home for the lists :). > > > Arnout > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 17:26:51 +0200 > > From: Arnout Engelen <no...@bz...> > > To: notion-general <not...@li...> > > Subject: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I'd like to start moving away from sourceforge. > > > > I already accept PR's and issues on https://github.com/raboof/notion > > > > It would be nice to have something nicer for the site and docs as > > described at https://sourceforge.net/p/notion/mailman/message/32591869 > > > > We'd need to move the mailinglists somewhere, Google Groups might be a > > good candidate. > > > > > > Any other suggestions? > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Arnout > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > Notion-general mailing list > > Not...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/notion-general > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Notion-general mailing list > Not...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/notion-general -- Wojtek Aniszewski [Fr: vôitek anichévsky] [Eng: voyteck aanishevsky] www: http://www.coria.fr/spip.php?auteur1606 /^..^\ ,-------------------------------------, ( (••) ) ►►►►| My public GPG key ID: AC66485E | (|)_._(|)~ | please use email encryption! | `-------------------------------------" |
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From: Thomas K. <tk...@gi...> - 2015-05-31 13:10:13
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 02:35:50PM +0200, Wojciech Aniszewski wrote: > It would be a sad move to migrate to Google, or any other login-requiring > service. You can use the google mailing lists like normal mailing lists without logging in. (Un-)Subscription is done by sending mail to [Groupname]+su...@go... [Groupname]+un...@go... This is not well documented though. Thomas |
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From: tot-to <not...@to...> - 2015-06-01 02:19:57
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Hi Thomas, Thank you. It's good to know, that it's possible. But if it's not documented, then it's not something one can rely on. I should be considered rather as a hack. -----Original Message----- Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 14:51:56 +0200 From: Thomas Klausner <tk...@gi...> To: Wojciech Aniszewski <ani...@co...> Cc: not...@li... Subject: Re: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 02:35:50PM +0200, Wojciech Aniszewski wrote: > It would be a sad move to migrate to Google, or any other login-requiring > service. You can use the google mailing lists like normal mailing lists without logging in. (Un-)Subscription is done by sending mail to [Groupname]+su...@go... [Groupname]+un...@go... This is not well documented though. Thomas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Notion-general mailing list Not...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/notion-general |
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From: Ed S. <edm...@cm...> - 2015-05-31 13:22:43
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:35 AM Wojciech Aniszewski <ani...@co...> wrote: > It would be a sad move to migrate to Google, or any other login-requiring > service. > > I feel that subscribing to mailing lists only to ask a question is much more burdensome than creating a Google account, and I often simply avoid joining a traditional mailing list unless I want to receive its mail anyway. Google groups is nice (assuming you have a Google account, don't think Google is the devil, etc.) because you can post messages and subscribe to your thread only if desired. It also has very good archive search. I agree it's unfortunate that a Google account is required, though. Ed |
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From: Igor M. <g-...@ya...> - 2015-05-31 15:27:07
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Since it's highly probably that everyone on this maillist has a github account, we can consider to drop maillist completely and use gitter.im If we ever see some questions asked repeatedly, when can then just add them to the docs, no? And for docs, maybe I missed it, but if we have a project on github, why not use gh-pages for docs? https://pages.github.com/ It's static, but we can generate the docs from source anyway. Igor Mosyagin |
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From: Arnout E. <no...@bz...> - 2015-05-31 17:49:02
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Igor Mosyagin <g-...@ya...> wrote: > Since it's highly probably that everyone on this maillist has a github > account, we can consider to drop maillist completely and use gitter.im Gitter is neat, but not really a mailinglist replacement IMHO. > And for docs, maybe I missed it, but if we have a project on github, why > not use gh-pages for docs? https://pages.github.com/ > It's static, but we can generate the docs from source anyway. > Definitely! I'd love help migrating the site and docs to gh-pages, see https://sourceforge.net/p/notion/mailman/message/32591869 for some ideas. Kind regards, Arnout |
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From: tot-to <not...@to...> - 2015-05-31 17:55:49
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Hi Ed, You right, that it's not very convinient, that you need to subscribe to all messages within the maillist and can't subscribe only to desired topic(s). But the requirement of Google account create much more trobles. One needs not only to register, but also to set-up forwarding from Google e-mail to their actual address. And in order to post a message, instead of simply sending an e-mail, one needs to log-in. In my case the main problem is the fact that I can't register an account without entering a cell phone number, which I provide only to very limited amount of people for use only in urgent cases. And I'll not provide it for sure to the corporation well-known for the surveillance. Also, I don't see any reason to have a connection between the network identity and the real world identity. Apart of everything else, mailman is a free software, and google groups is proprietary. -----Original Message----- Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 13:22:25 +0000 From: Ed Schwartz <edm...@cm...> To: ani...@co..., tot-to <not...@to...> Cc: notion-general <not...@li...> Subject: Re: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 8:35 AM Wojciech Aniszewski <ani...@co...> wrote: > It would be a sad move to migrate to Google, or any other login-requiring > service. > > I feel that subscribing to mailing lists only to ask a question is much more burdensome than creating a Google account, and I often simply avoid joining a traditional mailing list unless I want to receive its mail anyway. Google groups is nice (assuming you have a Google account, don't think Google is the devil, etc.) because you can post messages and subscribe to your thread only if desired. It also has very good archive search. I agree it's unfortunate that a Google account is required, though. Ed |
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From: Jeff B. <jef...@gm...> - 2015-06-02 01:52:45
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On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 1:55 PM, tot-to <not...@to...> wrote: > You right, that it's not very convinient, that you need to subscribe to > all messages within the maillist and can't subscribe only to desired > topic(s). > > But the requirement of Google account create much more trobles. One > needs not only to register, but also to set-up forwarding from Google > e-mail to their actual address. And in order to post a message, instead > of simply sending an e-mail, one needs to log-in. > > In my case the main problem is the fact that I can't register an > account without entering a cell phone number, which I provide only to > very limited amount of people for use only in urgent cases. And I'll > not provide it for sure to the corporation well-known for the > surveillance. Also, I don't see any reason to have a connection > between the network identity and the real world identity. > > Apart of everything else, mailman is a free software, and google groups > is proprietary. > Another alternative is to use GitHub's "issues" for conversations. Here's a reasonably active project in which they do this: https://github.com/SFTtech/openage I believe you can subscribe to specific topics instead of receive everything. You can respond to a thread by replying, much like the mailing list, or you can log in and use the GUI. Unfortunately, you do need to have a GitHub account, but I believe the requirements are less stringent. Probably still closed source.... Regards, Jeff -- Jeff Backus jef...@gm... http://github.com/jsbackus |
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From: Matthieu M. <Mat...@gr...> - 2015-06-01 09:05:16
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tot-to <not...@to...> writes: > But the requirement of Google account create much more trobles. One > needs not only to register, but also to set-up forwarding from Google > e-mail to their actual address. You are making a confusion between a gmail account and a google account. A google account can be linked to any email address, not just gmail. And as said in other messages, you do not need a google account to use google groups, although it's clearly more convenient when you have one. > And in order to post a message, instead of simply sending an e-mail, > one needs to log-in. This is not true. Why are you saying that? > Apart of everything else, mailman is a free software, and google groups > is proprietary. If we are to pick google groups Vs sf.net, we should consider the drawbacks on both sides. Read this for example: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/05/sourceforge-grabs-gimp-for-windows-account-wraps-installer-in-bundle-pushing-adware/ or for french-speaking people: http://linuxfr.org/users/jehan/journaux/sourceforge-de-pire-en-pire-usurpation-d-identite-du-projet-gimp I don't particularly support the migration to google groups, but moving away from sourceforge would definitely be a good thing in my opinion. Sourceforge did a good job supporting free software 10 years ago, but they are now actively harmful. -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ |
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From: tot-to <not...@to...> - 2015-06-05 00:14:05
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Hi Matthieu, > This is not true. Why are you saying that? Because when I click "Plaats bericht" (stand for "New Topic", probably in Dutch), it asks to log-in to Google and doesn't reveal any alternative. > You are making a confusion between a gmail account and a google > account. > > A google account can be linked to any email address, not just gmail. > And as said in other messages, you do not need a google account to use > google groups, although it's clearly more convenient when you have > one. You're right, I've never distingished these two things and I guess even most of Google users (even among power users) don't pay attention to the difference. I can find a way to register the account without Gmail if I look for it in particular (btw, it still doesn't want to proceed without an sms verification). But is there a situation when Google would reveal this option to the user? If I click "Plaats bericht" in a Google group and then "Een account maken" and in the registration form, I can see an irremovable "@gmail.com" in "E-Mailadres" field, i.e. it forces a user to register not only Google account, but Gmail as well. > If we are to pick google groups Vs sf.net, we should consider the > drawbacks on both sides. Sure, but it's not a dilemma. > Read this for example: > http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/05/sourceforge-grabs-gimp-for-windows-account-wraps-installer-in-bundle- pushing-adware/ I've heard that. Totally agree that this is absolutely unacceptable. Google does many unethical things, too. I think much more, than SF. Both are just the same kind of bullshit. -----Original Message----- Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:05:00 +0200 From: Matthieu Moy <Mat...@gr...> To: tot-to <not...@to...> Cc: Ed Schwartz <edm...@cm...>, notion-general <not...@li...> Subject: Re: [Notion-general] Moving the mailinglists away from Sourceforge tot-to <not...@to...> writes: > But the requirement of Google account create much more trobles. One > needs not only to register, but also to set-up forwarding from Google > e-mail to their actual address. You are making a confusion between a gmail account and a google account. A google account can be linked to any email address, not just gmail. And as said in other messages, you do not need a google account to use google groups, although it's clearly more convenient when you have one. > And in order to post a message, instead of simply sending an e-mail, > one needs to log-in. This is not true. Why are you saying that? > Apart of everything else, mailman is a free software, and google groups > is proprietary. If we are to pick google groups Vs sf.net, we should consider the drawbacks on both sides. Read this for example: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/05/sourceforge-grabs-gimp-for-windows-account-wraps-installer-in-bundle-pushing-adware/ or for french-speaking people: http://linuxfr.org/users/jehan/journaux/sourceforge-de-pire-en-pire-usurpation-d-identite-du-projet-gimp I don't particularly support the migration to google groups, but moving away from sourceforge would definitely be a good thing in my opinion. Sourceforge did a good job supporting free software 10 years ago, but they are now actively harmful. -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ |
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From: Matthieu M. <Mat...@gr...> - 2015-06-08 09:04:40
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tot-to <not...@to...> writes: > Hi Matthieu, > >> This is not true. Why are you saying that? > Because when I click "Plaats bericht" (stand for "New Topic", probably > in Dutch), it asks to log-in to Google and doesn't reveal any > alternative. You did not quote the part you were replying to: >> And in order to post a message, instead of simply sending an e-mail, >> one needs to log-in. Why are you complaining that clicking some buttons ask you to log in when you wanted to just send an email. This is nonsense. If you want to send an email, just send it. And guess what, it works: it's a mailing-list. -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ |
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From: Thomas K. <tk...@gi...> - 2015-06-06 07:23:03
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On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 05:26:51PM +0200, Arnout Engelen wrote: > We'd need to move the mailinglists somewhere, Google Groups might be a good > candidate. > > Any other suggestions? I just found librelist.com: "Librelist is a free as in freedom mailing list site for open source projects. It is a place for FOSS communities to discuss all the things they want without ads, censorship, signup requirements, bundled apps, or requirements that you use any particular email client or service." Thomas |
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