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From: M R. <mr...@gm...> - 2010-04-10 04:03:27
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On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 22:16 -0400, Aron Griffis wrote: > M Rawash wrote: [Fri Apr 09 2010, 07:35:03PM EDT] > >> Agreed! (or some clarifications from Tuomo, but doesn't seem to be very responsive) > > > >I'd say screw it, let him sue, he doesn't have any legal grounds (saying > >"section 'x' is void" does not automagically make it so) > > IANAL, but I think you might be wrong. It's his copyright and his > license based on the LGPL. The LGPL holds no magical powers to > force people to use it unmodified. according to the gnu website, it does: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#ModifyGPL "You can use the GPL terms (possibly modified) in another license provided that you call your license by another name and do not include the GPL preamble, and provided you modify the instructions-for-use at the end enough to make it clearly different in wording and not mention GNU (though the actual procedure you describe may be similar)." let's not forget the LGPL is itself copyrighted... > If there's any question of legality, it would probably fall in his > favor. well, we also have the right to license our work under a different license according to the "GNU Lesser General Public License" terms of use (of which Tuomo's terms are in direct violation of) just my tupe |
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From: Olof J. <zi...@et...> - 2010-04-10 09:10:38
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On 2010-04-10 05:56, M Rawash wrote:
> let's not forget the LGPL is itself copyrighted...
Well, that's not *your* problem, that's something between FSF and
Tuomo. It probably doesn't make the license invalid.
--
Olof Johansson
jabber: ol...@et...
irc: zibri on Freenode, OFTC
uri: http://www.stdlib.se/
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From: Juri H. <ju...@fa...> - 2010-04-10 13:41:58
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On 09/04/10 22:07, Alexander Rink wrote: > For your convenience (if you are an archlinux user like me), heres the PKGBUILD > > Alex > > On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 21:52:56 +0200 > Alexander Rink<a....@gm...> wrote: > > >> Grab it while it's hot: https://sourceforge.net/downloads/notion/notion-20100409.tar.gz >> >> I've replaced function names and constants, filenames, directory names in all lua and c files as well as in the pot/man files. It's very possible that I missed a few places, but I think it's a good start. It compiles fine and works while im typing this. >> >> Please be aware that even the name and location of the config files has change (/etc/notion, .notion/, cfg_notioncore.lua cfg_notion.lua ...) >> >> Please test it on your system (e.g. make -B PREFIX="/usr" ETCDIR="/etc/notion"; make PREFIX="/usr" ETCDIR="/etc/notion" install) >> >> I'm a bit tired now, took me 6 hours to get this working... >> >> On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:45:57 +0200 >> Alexander Rink<a....@gm...> wrote: >> Compilation goes well here, but get an error when i try to run notion: notion startup error log: >> /usr/local/notion/lib/notion/lc/notioncore_ext.lc: bad header in precompiled chunk >> Unable to find 'notioncore_ext' on search path. >> Refusing to start due to encountered errors. Not sure what causes the problem. Unlikely, but maybe some kind of conflict with installed ion3/ion3plus/pwm/pwm3plus? Tried installing also with PKGBUILD provided by you, same result. Anyone clue? |
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From: Alexander R. <a....@gm...> - 2010-04-10 15:56:14
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Maybe you should try to add the search path to the start of notion:
e.g. notion -s /usr/local
If you used the PKGBUILD the files will be installed to /usr and should work out of the box...
$ notion --help
Usage: notion [options]
-display host:dpy.scr X display to use
-c, -conffile config_file Configuration file
-s, -searchdir dir Add directory to search path
-oneroot Manage default screen only
-session session_name Name of session (affects savefiles)
-smclientid client_id Session manager client ID
-noerrorlog Do not create startup error log and display it
with xmessage.
-h, -help Show this help
-V, -version Show program version
-about Show about text
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:41:48 +0200
Juri Hamburg <ju...@fa...> wrote:
> On 09/04/10 22:07, Alexander Rink wrote:
> > For your convenience (if you are an archlinux user like me), heres the PKGBUILD
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 21:52:56 +0200
> > Alexander Rink<a....@gm...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Grab it while it's hot: https://sourceforge.net/downloads/notion/notion-20100409.tar.gz
> >>
> >> I've replaced function names and constants, filenames, directory names in all lua and c files as well as in the pot/man files. It's very possible that I missed a few places, but I think it's a good start. It compiles fine and works while im typing this.
> >>
> >> Please be aware that even the name and location of the config files has change (/etc/notion, .notion/, cfg_notioncore.lua cfg_notion.lua ...)
> >>
> >> Please test it on your system (e.g. make -B PREFIX="/usr" ETCDIR="/etc/notion"; make PREFIX="/usr" ETCDIR="/etc/notion" install)
> >>
> >> I'm a bit tired now, took me 6 hours to get this working...
> >>
> >> On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:45:57 +0200
> >> Alexander Rink<a....@gm...> wrote:
> >>
>
> Compilation goes well here, but get an error when i try to run notion:
>
> notion startup error log:
> >> /usr/local/notion/lib/notion/lc/notioncore_ext.lc: bad header in precompiled chunk
> >> Unable to find 'notioncore_ext' on search path.
> >> Refusing to start due to encountered errors.
>
> Not sure what causes the problem.
> Unlikely, but maybe some kind of conflict with installed
> ion3/ion3plus/pwm/pwm3plus? Tried installing also with PKGBUILD provided
> by you, same result. Anyone clue?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
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> _______________________________________________
> Notion-devel mailing list
> Not...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/notion-devel
--
Alexander Rink <a....@gm...>
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From: M R. <mr...@gm...> - 2010-04-10 13:59:41
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On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 11:10 +0200, Olof Johansson wrote: > On 2010-04-10 05:56, M Rawash wrote: > > let's not forget the LGPL is itself copyrighted... > > Well, that's not *your* problem, that's something between FSF and > Tuomo. It probably doesn't make the license invalid. > so, what do you reckon we should do? i suggest we find the latest ion3 release that didn't include Tuomo's license and build on it from there (implementing all the later changes with our own code and license it under GPL); but whatever we do, i'm not in favour of keeping Tuomo's license (it's what drove people away in the first place). regards, M Rawash |
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From: Ole J. B. <ole...@ya...> - 2010-04-10 16:28:42
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:52:36 +0200, M Rawash <mr...@gm...> wrote: > On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 11:10 +0200, Olof Johansson wrote: >> On 2010-04-10 05:56, M Rawash wrote: >> > let's not forget the LGPL is itself copyrighted... >> >> Well, that's not *your* problem, that's something between FSF and >> Tuomo. It probably doesn't make the license invalid. >> > > so, what do you reckon we should do? > > > i suggest we find the latest ion3 release that didn't include Tuomo's > license and build on it from there (implementing all the later changes > with our own code and license it under GPL); but whatever we do, i'm not > in favour of keeping Tuomo's license (it's what drove people away in the > first place). > > regards, > M Rawash Patch descriptions of the post license changes: (40kB attachment limit?!) http://folk.ntnu.no/bronner/temp/post-license-changes.txt |
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From: M R. <mr...@gm...> - 2010-04-10 17:06:49
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On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 18:28 +0200, Ole Jørgen Brønner wrote: > On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:52:36 +0200, M Rawash <mr...@gm...> wrote: > > > On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 11:10 +0200, Olof Johansson wrote: > >> On 2010-04-10 05:56, M Rawash wrote: > >> > let's not forget the LGPL is itself copyrighted... > >> > >> Well, that's not *your* problem, that's something between FSF and > >> Tuomo. It probably doesn't make the license invalid. > >> > > > > so, what do you reckon we should do? > > > > > > i suggest we find the latest ion3 release that didn't include Tuomo's > > license and build on it from there (implementing all the later changes > > with our own code and license it under GPL); but whatever we do, i'm not > > in favour of keeping Tuomo's license (it's what drove people away in the > > first place). > > > > regards, > > M Rawash > > Patch descriptions of the post license changes: (40kB attachment limit?!) > http://folk.ntnu.no/bronner/temp/post-license-changes.txt yah, i already ran a diff on an older version of ion (could we use darcs to revert to a more precise snapshot?), seems like a lot of work, but i think it's worth it if we want this fork to be truly free... M Rawash PS: about the 40kB attachment limit, i believe it's sourceforge's policy, nothing in the admin interface says anything about a size limit. well, i guess we could move to http://savannah.nongnu.org/ (once we have a freeier license, that is) like Olof Johansson suggested; does anyone know what kind SCMs they support? |
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From: Olof J. <zi...@et...> - 2010-04-09 10:15:49
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On 2010-04-09 11:25, Juri Hamburg wrote: > I would strike the name (who cares about names?) and do an initial commit > first. The question is, wether the commit should be "cleaned" (eliminate > occurences of "ion", substitute with "notion") or not. If we do _not_ > clean > the initial commit, we are definitely not allowed to distribute it (or > offer public checkout until it is "cleaned"). Have you even read the license? Or do you mean that Debian and other distributions that distribute ion3 is doing so illegal? As long as the version distribute does not "significantly differ from one of the copyright holder's release" it's ok. Based on what? That's not correct. Debian distributes (or... well, distributed) ion under it's correct name. As long as you don't > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval > Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs > proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. > See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev Ps. I hate Sourceforge. -- Olof Johansson jabber: ol...@et... irc: zibri on Freenode, OFTC uri: http://www.stdlib.se/ |
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From: Juri H. <ju...@fa...> - 2010-04-09 12:29:48
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On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:15:35 +0200, Olof Johansson <zi...@et...> wrote: > On 2010-04-09 11:25, Juri Hamburg wrote: >> I would strike the name (who cares about names?) and do an initial commit >> first. The question is, wether the commit should be "cleaned" (eliminate >> occurences of "ion", substitute with "notion") or not. If we do _not_ >> clean >> the initial commit, we are definitely not allowed to distribute it (or >> offer public checkout until it is "cleaned"). > > Have you even read the license? Or do you mean that Debian and other > distributions that distribute ion3 is doing so illegal? As long as the > version distribute does not "significantly differ from one of the > copyright holder's release" it's ok. > > Based on what? That's not correct. Debian distributes (or... well, > distributed) ion under it's correct name. As long as you don't > Well, you're right, in the license of ion-3-20090110 only the executables are mentioned: "Versions for which the above conditions are not satisfied, must be renamed so that they can not be associated with the Ion project, their executables must be given names that do not conflict with the copyright holder's version, and neither the copyright holder nor the Ion project may be referred to for support." I'm still quite sure that I have read something about removing "functional" occurrences of ion. Either ion's mailing list or maybe even IRC? Once in #ion Tuomo commented some ion-fork discussion with something like "have fun removing all ion references". Unfortunately I do not have that in my logs. I guess you could find that part if you grep for "reference" and "suffer freetards". :) However, due to license, seems like we just have to change the executable name. What is actually an executable in that context? Just the one to start the window manager? -- Juri Hamburg |
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From: Olof J. <zi...@et...> - 2010-04-09 16:42:11
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On 2010-04-09 14:24, Juri Hamburg wrote:
> Well, you're right, in the license of ion-3-20090110 only the executables
> are mentioned:
>
> "Versions for which the above conditions are not satisfied, must be
> renamed so that they can not be associated with the Ion project, their
> executables must be given names that do not conflict with the copyright
> holder's version, and neither the copyright holder nor the Ion project
> may be referred to for support."
>
> I'm still quite sure that I have read something about removing
> "functional" occurrences of ion. Either ion's mailing list or maybe even
> IRC? Once in #ion Tuomo commented some ion-fork discussion with something
> like "have fun removing all ion references". Unfortunately I do not have
> that in my logs. I guess you could find that part if you grep for
> "reference" and "suffer freetards". :)
Well, yes, i recognize that quote :-), but
1) you publish vanilla ion sources,
2) remove references to the ion trademark (were applicable),
3) introduce your own changes.
This is halal.
> However, due to license, seems like we just have to change the executable
> name. What is actually an executable in that context? Just the one to start
> the window manager?
IANAL, but i'm pretty certain that at least all user visable occurances of
ion must be replaced if you want to fork. The license text does not limit
the renames to the executable. Also, the ion3 maintainer in debian noted
that Tuomo has insisted on even paths must not include the name ion[0].
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
> Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
> proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
> See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
PS. I hate Sourceforge
0: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=544848#20
--
Olof Johansson
jabber: ol...@et...
irc: zibri on Freenode, OFTC
uri: http://www.stdlib.se/
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