noffle-users

Re: [Noffle-users] Re: 441 error messages

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 19-May-2003 Andreas Happe wrote:
> following - up to myself:
> it seems that (with linux kernel 2.5) readdir doesn't returns '.' or
> '..' as first directory entries.
> 
> the following patch should reanable posting with 2.5.

Thanks for that Andreas. I'll get that change into CVS ASAP. The same change
also needs to be made in Out_find() as well.

-- 
Jim Hague - ji...@be...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

Re: [Noffle-users] discard and still tests each time

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 17-May-2003 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> I noticed when I changed the filter from
> filter bytes>19k action=discard
> to
> filter group=gmane.spam.detected action=over
> filter group=comp.risks action=full
> filter bytes>19k action=over
> 
> all the comp.risks digests I had missed came flooding back; the
> moderator was still indeed alive and kicking.
> 
> Anyway, my point is apparently, if one uses discard, then they will
> still be checked again next time...

OK, I see this. Actually what will happen is that it won't skip over the
discarded ones until a non-discarded article in the group comes alone -
requesting an article be downloaded updates the 'next remote article' number,
but discards don't. The fix is trivial; I should get it into CVS tomorrow.

-- 
Jim Hague - ji...@be...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

Re: [Noffle-users] one bad article ruins the fetch for that server

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 14-May-2003 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Bug: say one has two postings queued for a certain server.  If the
> first one fails, e.g.  441 No valid newsgroups in "alt.cons....
> Then not only will the second article not be tried, but the fetch for
> that server won't be tried.
> 
> Or maybe the server (news.cis.dfn.de) hung up at that point.

Thanks for the report. I've spotted this now - it's a silly bug in the code
that measn that all posting failures get treated as line drops. I'll try to fix
it tomorrow.

> The user isn't notified that something bad happened too.

Same bug. Line drops/lost connections shouldn't get reported to the user but
will be logged - that's assumed an admin problem. If a posting fails the post
should get mailed back to the sender. At present this isn't happening properly.

-- 
Jim Hague - ji...@be...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

[Noffle-users] Re: 441 error messages

[Andreas H. <and...@gm...>]

following - up to myself:
it seems that (with linux kernel 2.5) readdir doesn't returns '.' or
'..' as first directory entries.

the following patch should reanable posting with 2.5. It compiles, but
due to a error in the automake script i cannot test it. Another solution
would be a own readdir function, which would return the standard readdir
output, but would "overread" '.' and '..'.

--- outgoing.c	2003-05-19 17:50:55.000000000 +0200
+++ outgoing-2.c	2003-05-19 17:50:31.000000000 +0200
@@ -91,8 +91,9 @@
         return FALSE;
     }
     Utl_cpyStr( outgoing.serv, serv );
-    Out_next( NULL, NULL ); /* "."  */
-    Out_next( NULL, NULL ); /* ".." */
+    /* the order of '.' and '..' isn't fixed in linux 2.5 */
+//    Out_next( NULL, NULL ); /* "."  */
+//    Out_next( NULL, NULL ); /* ".." */
     return Out_next( msgId, artTxt );
 }
 
@@ -104,12 +105,14 @@
     Str file, line;
 
     ASSERT( outgoing.dir );
-    if ( ! ( d = readdir( outgoing.dir ) ) )
-    {
-        closedir( outgoing.dir );
-        outgoing.dir = NULL;
-        return FALSE;
-    }
+    do {
+    	if ( ! ( d = readdir( outgoing.dir ) ) )
+    	{
+        	closedir( outgoing.dir );
+        	outgoing.dir = NULL;
+        	return FALSE;
+    	}
+    } while ( strcmp(d->d_name, ".") == 0 || strcmp(d->d_name, "..") == 0);
    
     if ( msgId != NULL )
     	Utl_cpyStr( msgId, d->d_name );

HTH,
andreas

[Noffle-users] 441 error messages

[Andreas H. <and...@gm...>]

I'm getting lots of 441 - Article has no body -- just headers messags,
the following message to your mailing list included:

| Newsgroups: gmane.network.noffle.user
| From: Andreas Happe <and...@gm...>
| Subject: 441 - Article has no body -- just headers
| User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux)
| Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:10:26 +0200
| Message-ID: <slr...@fl...>
| Path: flatline.ath.cx!not-for-mail
| Reply-To: Andreas Happe <and...@gm...>
|
| I'm getting these message from time to time. The messages should be well
| formated, the only thing that could be non - standard are lines with
| more than 80 characters. Used news user agent ist slrn 0.9.4.

| Andreas,

Andreas

[Noffle-users] discard and still tests each time

[Dan J. <ji...@dm...>]

I noticed when I changed the filter from
filter bytes>19k action=discard
to
filter group=gmane.spam.detected action=over
filter group=comp.risks action=full
filter bytes>19k action=over

all the comp.risks digests I had missed came flooding back; the
moderator was still indeed alive and kicking.

Anyway, my point is apparently, if one uses discard, then they will
still be checked again next time...
-- 
http://jidanni.org/ Taiwan(04)25854780

[Noffle-users] one bad article ruins the fetch for that server

[Dan J. <ji...@dm...>]

Bug: say one has two postings queued for a certain server.  If the
first one fails, e.g.  441 No valid newsgroups in "alt.cons....
Then not only will the second article not be tried, but the fetch for
that server won't be tried.

Or maybe the server (news.cis.dfn.de) hung up at that point.

The user isn't notified that something bad happened too.
-- 
http://jidanni.org/ Taiwan(04)25854780

[Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Andreas H. <and...@gm...>]

In article <20030506125154.542B.4.NOFFLE@tarnica.miernik.lo>, Miernik wrote:
> In article <XFM...@ac...>, Jim Hague wrote:
> 
>> The idea of online mode was that while you were connected on dial-up you could
>> browse through unscubscribed newsgroups to try them out. If you're just
>> dropping into a newsgroup to see if it contains anything interesting, you don't
> 
> Well, that would be great, but for me it just does not work that way. 
> When I enter a new newsgroup, in online mode, I just get a message 
> that there are no messages in this newsgroup.

I've got the same problem (also using Debian (unstable)). I've verified
it with slrn and pan, so I think it is a noffle - specific problem.

andreas

[Noffle-users] Re: does filtering increase modem traffic?

[Dan J. <ji...@dm...>]

>> filter bytes>19k action=discard
>> filter group=gmane.spam.detected action=discard

Jim> So, in the above example, the first rule has no overhead, the
Jim> second rule does have an overhead.  The increase in data will be
Jim> downloading just the Newsgroups: lines for each article.

Yes, extra bytes few perhaps, but switching communications back and
forth overhead probably even worse.  OK, I will remove the second
line, then I will have primed communications to the max (though
filtering less.)

Wait, maybe one could get all the article numbers on
gmane.spam.detected, then use them as an internal blacklist.
-- 
http://jidanni.org/ Taiwan(04)25854780

Re: [Noffle-users] does filtering increase modem traffic?

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 09-May-2003 Dan Jacobson wrote:
> Gentlemen, in noffle.conf I have chosen to do
> filter bytes>19k action=discard
> filter group=gmane.spam.detected action=discard
> 
> I am worried that now that I have chosen filtering, what once was just
> a simple download now needs to have also a preliminary header check
> for each article.

Filter rules that require knowing the newsgroup name - those that specify a
group or number of crossposts - do require fetching extra information, to whit
the contents of the Newsgroups: header for each message. This is done with a
XHDR request to upstream before the overview information is obtained. All the
other rules work on the standard overview information that Noffle downloads all
the time, so don't add any overhead.

So, in the above example, the first rule has no overhead, the second rule does
have an overhead.

> Me adding those two lines will now cause the bytes going over my
> modem to increase by how much?  These days headers are bigger than
> many bodies anyway...

The increase in data will be downloading just the Newsgroups: lines for each
article.

> Is all the filtering accomplished in a overview phase that we have to
> do for the particular group anyway, thus merely using the CPU more,
> not the modem?  Or do we laboriously get each message's header first?
> 
> Am I wasting just CPU or also phone money filtering for
> gmane.spam.detected even for other servers than gmane?

Phone money, unfortunately. At the moment there is no way to switch off a
filter on a per-server basis.

-- 
Jim Hague - ji...@be...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

[Noffle-users] does filtering increase modem traffic?

[Dan J. <ji...@dm...>]

Gentlemen, in noffle.conf I have chosen to do
filter bytes>19k action=discard
filter group=gmane.spam.detected action=discard

I am worried that now that I have chosen filtering, what once was just
a simple download now needs to have also a preliminary header check
for each article.

Assuming nothing matches them for a particular modem session, i.e. no
spam on the server today:

Me adding those two lines will now cause the bytes going over my
modem to increase by how much?  These days headers are bigger than
many bodies anyway...

Is all the filtering accomplished in a overview phase that we have to
do for the particular group anyway, thus merely using the CPU more,
not the modem?  Or do we laboriously get each message's header first?

Am I wasting just CPU or also phone money filtering for
gmane.spam.detected even for other servers than gmane?
-- 
http://jidanni.org/ Taiwan(04)25854780

[Noffle-users] I'd like Noffle not to switch automaticly to offline mode every time upstream server sends a RST

[Miernik <mi...@ct...>]

My upstream server sends a RST every second connection attempt. I 
think it's nothing more than overload of the upstream server. 

Noffle switches automaticly to offline mode when it receives a RST 
from the upstream server.

It's very annoying to have to run 'noffle -n' every second article I 
read. 

How about a config option for disabling the automatic switching to 
offline mode in case of:

1) RST from upstream server
2) Connection timeout from upstream server

In these two cases I have never done nothing more then a retry (except 
that mandatory noffle -n).

We where discussing it once, and the discussion ended with a 
conclusion that we need code to automaticly retry after a timeout. I 
think we do not need that much. Simply supressing that switching to 
offline mode would be enough. Manualy retrying to read an article is 
OK, but manualy doing noffle -n every retry is not OK. It takes an 
order of magnitude more time.

-- 
    Miernik         ________________________ jabber:mi...@ja...
__ ICQ: 4004001 ___/__ tel: +48608233394 __/      mailto:mi...@ct...
Truth about Bush's military operations: 
http://www.TruthAboutWar.org/

[Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Miernik <mi...@ct...>]

In article <XFM...@ac...>, Jim Hague wrote:

> The idea of online mode was that while you were connected on dial-up you could
> browse through unscubscribed newsgroups to try them out. If you're just
> dropping into a newsgroup to see if it contains anything interesting, you don't

Well, that would be great, but for me it just does not work that way. 
When I enter a new newsgroup, in online mode, I just get a message 
that there are no messages in this newsgroup.

I need to swith to offline mode, mark the group for fetching, then run 
noffle -f, and only then I am able to enter a newsgroup.

I'd love to browse newsgroups without subscribing, but it doesn't work. 

What am I doing wrong, or is there a bug?
I use slrn 0.9.7.4-35 from Debian. 

> want to auto-subscribe and collect the past few hundred messages before you can
> see any content in that newsgroup. In online mode you should be able to visit a
> newsgroup you've not subscribed to and read articles in that group, and only
> the articles you actually read will land in the local article database (i.e.
> Noffle becomes a pure caching proxy).
> 
> I recently removed references to online mode from the INSTALL instructions - it
> causes so much confusion. I've never used it myself, either on dial-up or with
> a cable modem, and given that it complicates the code somewhat I'd cheerfully
> remove it.

No, no, please do not remove online mode. I use only online mode. 

-- 
    Miernik         ________________________ jabber:mi...@ja...
__ ICQ: 4004001 ___/__ tel: +48608233394 __/      mailto:mi...@ct...
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Re: [Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 05-May-2003 Miernik wrote:
> In article <200...@ml...>, Mirko Liss wrote:
> 
>>> That change (dummy messages only in offline mode) makes sense when 
>>> NOFFLE is used in a larger environment. But when I use NOFFLE only for 
>>> myslef, I would prefer the old behaviour. Might it become a config 
>>> option?
>> 
>> Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand.
>> Do you want an option in noffle.conf to disable the online mode?
> 
> No, I wanted an option to allow automatic subscription also in online 
> mode (as it was in 1.1.2).

I'm happy to consider this idea, but note that Noffle has *never* done auto
subscription in online mode. Not deliberately, anyway. :-)
> 
> And BTW, I still do not understand te concept of not providing dummy 
> articles for automatic subscription in online mode. Say we are all the 
> time in online mode, and do not want to swith online/offline (or even 
> do not have priviliges to do that).
> 
> What we are supposed to do when we want to read a new newsgroup (not 
> previously read by anyone on this NOFFLE)?

The idea of online mode was that while you were connected on dial-up you could
browse through unscubscribed newsgroups to try them out. If you're just
dropping into a newsgroup to see if it contains anything interesting, you don't
want to auto-subscribe and collect the past few hundred messages before you can
see any content in that newsgroup. In online mode you should be able to visit a
newsgroup you've not subscribed to and read articles in that group, and only
the articles you actually read will land in the local article database (i.e.
Noffle becomes a pure caching proxy).

I recently removed references to online mode from the INSTALL instructions - it
causes so much confusion. I've never used it myself, either on dial-up or with
a cable modem, and given that it complicates the code somewhat I'd cheerfully
remove it.

Would anybody like to make a case for keeping online mode?

-- 
Jim Hague - ji...@be...          Never trust a computer you can't lift.

[Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Miernik <mi...@ct...>]

In article <200...@ml...>, Mirko Liss wrote:

>> That change (dummy messages only in offline mode) makes sense when 
>> NOFFLE is used in a larger environment. But when I use NOFFLE only for 
>> myslef, I would prefer the old behaviour. Might it become a config 
>> option?
> 
> Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand.
> Do you want an option in noffle.conf to disable the online mode?

No, I wanted an option to allow automatic subscription also in online 
mode (as it was in 1.1.2).

And BTW, I still do not understand te concept of not providing dummy 
articles for automatic subscription in online mode. Say we are all the 
time in online mode, and do not want to swith online/offline (or even 
do not have priviliges to do that).

What we are supposed to do when we want to read a new newsgroup (not 
previously read by anyone on this NOFFLE)?

-- 
    Miernik         ________________________ jabber:mi...@ja...
__ ICQ: 4004001 ___/__ tel: +48608233394 __/      mailto:mi...@ct...
Truth about Bush's military operations: 
http://www.TruthAboutWar.org/

Re: [Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Mirko L. <mir...@we...>]

Miernik wrote:
> > 4. SLRN comes with it's own simple server SLRNPULL. Do you use noffle
> > and SLRNPULL at the same time?
> 
> No. BTW: could you shortly compare SLRNPULL with NOFFLE? What does one 
>     has that the other does not?

SLRNPULL 0.9.7.4:
- No local NNTP server. Your newsreader must be able to read directly
  from a traditional news spool directory. Some newsreaders can't sort
  articles into threads or find parent posts when reading from a local
  spool. SLRN can do all that, IIRC.
- No local groups.
- Just one upstream server, not multiple ones.
- "slrnpull -post" posts articles but doesn't fetch new articles from
  the upstream server. Noffle does not support a similar feature.
- There aren't different fetch modes, like Noffle's "full", "thread" or
  "over" mode.
- A killfile (similar to the neat scorefile of SLRN) can be applied
  before fetching articles. I don't know whether SLRNPULL evaluates the
  newsgroups' overview (like Noffle) or whether it requests the headers
  of each article (like SLRN). There are pros and cons to both methods.
- No automatic subscriptions. But it's easy to hack a S-Lang macro if
  you use SLRN.
- No transparent mode like Noffle's online mode.

Re: [Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Mirko L. <mir...@we...>]

Miernik wrote:
> That change (dummy messages only in offline mode) makes sense when 
> NOFFLE is used in a larger environment. But when I use NOFFLE only for 
> myslef, I would prefer the old behaviour. Might it become a config 
> option?

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand.
Do you want an option in noffle.conf to disable the online mode?

You don't need to call "noffle --online" before "noffle --fetch".
That's one of the differences between noffle and wwwoffle.

[Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Miernik <mi...@ct...>]

In article <200...@ml...>, Mirko Liss wrote:

> 3. In online mode, automatic subscription won't work and dummy messages
> won't be created. That's a feature, not a bug. When you type 
> "noffle --offline", do you get the reply "NOFFLE is already offline" or
> just "NOFFLE is now offline"?

Of course I expected to noffle to present dummy messages in online 
mode. It works OK in offline mode. 

That change (dummy messages only in offline mode) makes sense when 
NOFFLE is used in a larger environment. But when I use NOFFLE only for 
myslef, I would prefer the old behaviour. Might it become a config 
option?

> 4. SLRN comes with it's own simple server SLRNPULL. Do you use noffle
> and SLRNPULL at the same time?

No. BTW: could you shortly compare SLRNPULL with NOFFLE? What does one 
    has that the other does not?

-- 
    Miernik         ________________________ jabber:mi...@ja...
__ ICQ: 4004001 ___/__ tel: +48608233394 __/      mailto:mi...@ct...
Truth about Bush's military operations: 
http://www.TruthAboutWar.org/

Re: [Noffle-users] 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Mirko L. <mir...@we...>]

Martin Godisch wrote:
> Can anybody tell me, why src/server.c:154 requires !Online_true()?

It's a feature. Noffle is supposed to act like a transparent caching
server in online mode. It doesn't send dummy messages and it shouldn't
surprise users with silent subscriptions.

Well, you might say that this sudden change in behaviour will
be surprising for most users. But it is noted in the manual page.
I guess it should be mentioned in noffle's config file as well.

> And, may I suggest sending auto(un)subscribes to syslog?

That's a good idea.

Mirko

Re: [Noffle-users] 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Mirko L. <mir...@we...>]

Miernik wrote:
> When I want to add a group to fetch list using a newsreader (I use 
> slrn), it doesn't work: when I tap <Enter> on a new newsgroup I just 
> get a message that there are no articles in this newsgroup.

0. Have you tried "telnet localhost nntp"? Did you see noffle's welcome
message "200 NNTP server NOFFLE 1.1.4"?

> The only way I can mark a newsgroup is noffle -t group.name
> 
> I use noffle 1.1.4-7 from Debian. 

1. AFAIK, the Debian package doesn't use /etc/noffle.conf but
/etc/noffle/conf instead. Have you edited the right config file?

2. What's the value of "auto-unsubscribe-days", by the way?

3. In online mode, automatic subscription won't work and dummy messages
won't be created. That's a feature, not a bug. When you type 
"noffle --offline", do you get the reply "NOFFLE is already offline" or
just "NOFFLE is now offline"?
 
> Before when I used version 1.1.2 it worked correctly. Well, it was not 
> very correct too: I only saw the NOFFLE dummy message in a new 
> newsgroup the next day after I subscribed that newsgroup in slrn. Now 
> I never get the NOFFLE dummy article.

4. SLRN comes with it's own simple server SLRNPULL. Do you use noffle
and SLRNPULL at the same time?

5. Have you by accident deleted noffle's spool when you where updating?
If you did, does SLRN still use its old $HOME/.jnewsrc file with
presumably wrong article numbers?


Mirko

[Noffle-users] Re: 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Miernik <mi...@ct...>]

In article <200...@ca...>, Martin Godisch wrote:

> Your auto-subscribe option in /etc/news/noffle.conf is set? 

auto-subscribe yes

> It works for me, but only if noffle is in offline mode.

Wow, in offline mode it works, thanks Martin!

-- 
    Miernik         ________________________ jabber:mi...@ja...
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Help protect Information Innovation against the Abuse of the Patent System
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[Noffle-users] 1.1.4: problems marking newsgroups for fetching

[Miernik <mi...@ct...>]

When I want to add a group to fetch list using a newsreader (I use 
slrn), it doesn't work: when I tap <Enter> on a new newsgroup I just 
get a message that there are no articles in this newsgroup.

The only way I can mark a newsgroup is noffle -t group.name

I use noffle 1.1.4-7 from Debian. 

Before when I used version 1.1.2 it worked correctly. Well, it was not 
very correct too: I only saw the NOFFLE dummy message in a new 
newsgroup the next day after I subscribed that newsgroup in slrn. Now 
I never get the NOFFLE dummy article.

And I'm NOT sure that this is related with my noffle version change, 
it might be unrelated.

-- 
    Miernik         ________________________ jabber:mi...@ja...
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Sing a declaration against US invasion in Iraq:
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[Noffle-users] tell me new groups, oh every 20 days

[Dan J. <ji...@dm...>]

Gentlemen, let's stay informed of new groups, say in a mail message to
ourselves oh, every 20 days or so.  Let's assume we don't want to use
our newsreader's newgroups presentation facilities, and instead want
notices mailed every 20 days.

It would be nice if there were $ noffle -g -cdate -20 where we could
list groups created less than 20 days ago. (I'm using find(1)
notation.) I would call it from anacron, oh every 18 days or
something. But no, there isn't yet.

So, ok, a possible first attempt at a once a month noffle check maybe is

#m=$(date +%Y-%m -d last\ month)
echo A month\'s of new newsgroups, with date of creation at front
m=$(date +%Y-%m)
noffle -g|awk '$7~/'$m'/{print (substr($7,9)),$1}'|sort -k 2
echo Not sure about the last days of the month, here executing from \
/etc/cron.monthly/

Hmmm, need a '-newer file" so we can check against a timestamp file so
we don't miss any between cracks, in case we take a 21 day vacation,
etc.
-- 
http://jidanni.org/ Taiwan(04)25854780

Re: Re[4]: [Noffle-users] fetch and import questions..

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 01-Mar-2003 Michal wrote:
> JH> When you say 'multiserver-capable', I presume you mean 'able to fetch
> news for
> JH> the same group from multiple servers'
> 
> yes, this and user authorisation are two most needed features in
> Noffle (IMHO)

OK. Dunno when I'll get round to it (or will receive a patch, he says
hopefully), but it'll happen some time.

What sort of user authorisation did you have in mind?

-- 
Jim Hague - jim...@in... (Work), ji...@be... (Play)
Never trust a computer you can't lift.

Re: [Noffle-users] noffle&pan

[Jim H. <jim...@ac...>]

On 27-Feb-2003 Tomislav Ivan Flis wrote:
>> Is there anything in the log files about hosts.deny or hosts.allow?
>  Which log files? I can copy-paste and send you to see.

The main loggin daemon log, which is most probably /var/log/messages
(var/log/syslog for Debianites). Try the 'telnet localhost nntp' and see what
messages get added there.

-- 
Jim Hague - jim...@in... (Work), ji...@be... (Play)
Never trust a computer you can't lift.