Re: [naviserver-devel] Why was NaviServer forked?

[Zoran V. <zv...@ar...>]

Am 12.07.2006 um 16:22 schrieb Andrew Piskorski:

> On Wed, Jul 12, 2006 at 11:19:12AM +0200, Zoran Vasiljevic wrote:
>
>> of that, some were fiercely opposed. Well, what would you do in such
>> case?
>
> I would have started actively and frequently committing code to the
> AOLserver CVS, as Dossy explicitly asked/challenged you to do, rather
> than merely talking about doing so.

Ah, this goes again... I did that, was publicly exposed as one who  
"broke"
some internally used AOL API which (almost) resulted in all my changes
reverted back and a lot of strain on myself to fix that in the matter of
*hours* in the CVS HEAD!!!
What I did: I commited a "innocent" update to get keylists objectified
as in one of the RFE's! And the bitter pill: I even did not need that  
personally!
I commited just because somebody from the communitiy needed it! Net  
result
is: I had to work later, under stress for some hours to get the fix.  
And the
code was in the volatile CVS HEAD. Now, AOL used CVS HEAD for  
production.
No wonder that they let nobody change a bit there!

Now, you did not have that experience but I did. And not everything was
going over the public list. I realized that AS project was more an AOL
project with a large debugging community then community driven  
development.
And I was not the only one with that impression...

I do not blame anybody for that. I'm greatly thankful to people who
open sourced the code and still have the highest possible respect
to them. It is just that we (I'm speaking about my company) need some
more than what's available and we do not have the time to spend
persuading everybody if that is needed or not and why and why not.


>
> Look, Zoran, I know that's not your personal style, but as far as I
> could tell you basically won your last public argument with Dossy, and
> he must have known it.  He more or less threw up his hands and said,
> 'Ok, just start committing code, we'll work it out from there.'  And
> then you walked away!

Well, this is a very good observation. The reason was simple: I did not
have the *time* to try again. My company is relying on the code  
*more* than
AOL does. After all, the server is the core of our product and several
people live from that. So, having this in mind and having Vlad  
throwing the
towel in resignation after the who-knows-what flame about multiprotocol
support, we just joined the forces. Stephen was in the same position...
So, the critical mass was there.

>
> If I recall correctly, Zoran had (and still has) CVS commit to
> AOLserver, but used it only rarely.  Vlad had it too.  Stephen Deasy
> never even asked for commit, which is a huge shame, as from his
> explanations on the AOLserver list, he seems to be a real AOLserver
> expert with a deep understanding of the code.
>
> Ideally, I would like to see Zoran, Stephen, and Vlad all actively
> collaborating with Jim Davidson and the other folks working on
> AOLserver, on a single codebase.  Failing that, I would have liked to
> see the three of them SOUNDLY and IRREFUTABLY demonstrate that a fork
> was in fact necessary.

Other folks? Who is "other folks"? I see only Nathan commiting  
anything new.
I have very good relations to Nathan and Jim (I have a *great*  
respect to this
guys) but they are both "biased" as they are both from AOL.
Where is the community?
You can say: you are the community (meaning myself). And I say, yes I  
was
the community as I tried but did not succeed.

>
> IMNSHO that was not done, and thus the NaviServer fork was
> unjustified.  Oh well, I guess it's all largely irrelevant now...

Well, I would not like to comment on everyting (there are other people
here as well) but I will comment on "unjustified".

 From our perspective (I mean myself and my company) and I'm certain  
that
other people think the same: it was a great relief! Suddenly whole  
lot of
possibilities opened and time could be used in more productive way!

But you know all that already, as you were (and are) present all that  
time.

Cheers
Zoran

>
> -- 
> Andrew Piskorski <at...@pi...>
> http://www.piskorski.com/
>
>
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