myhdl-list

[myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

Jan has posted an interesting blog post
"MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL"
http://bit.ly/ToK6xg at the All Programmable
Planet, http://www.programmableplanet.com/.

Be sure and check out the post and contribute
to the conversation.

Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

On 09/07/2012 03:14 AM, Christopher Felton wrote:
> Jan has posted an interesting blog post
> "MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL"
> http://bit.ly/ToK6xg at the All Programmable
> Planet, http://www.programmableplanet.com/.
>
> Be sure and check out the post and contribute
> to the conversation.

Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
"the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
should give us visibility and spur some interesting
discussions :-)

I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
     Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org
     VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com
     World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 9/7/12 2:25 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 03:14 AM, Christopher Felton wrote:
>> Jan has posted an interesting blog post
>> "MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL"
>> http://bit.ly/ToK6xg at the All Programmable
>> Planet, http://www.programmableplanet.com/.
>>
>> Be sure and check out the post and contribute
>> to the conversation.
>
> Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
> on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
> "the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
> should give us visibility and spur some interesting
> discussions :-)
>
> I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.
>

It is interesting to see the comments to the blog post.  But there has 
not been many "interesting conversations", yet.  There appears to be two 
types of "commentors".  One, those who have very general comments and 
also comments on most of the other blogs in a general way.  They seem to 
have neutral comments, e.g. "it seems interesting".  Or comments for the 
sake of commenting?

Second, are those who seem opposed to the idea and have long post (not 
sure if these long post say much).  But these users "hide" there 
identity, so it is hard to take them serious, was it a drunken rant that 
they were not afraid to post because it had little to no repercussions? 
  Is it worth investing time rebutting their comments?  We have seen on 
this mailing-list a lot of effort can spent with little progress of 
understanding.

I would love to contribute to the conversation, because I agree this 
seems like a good forum to get some interest.  But, I don't know if I 
can invest the time to clearly state my case why I think MyHDL is great 
and explain how my returns from my investment are huge.  I think it will 
drive me crazy not being able to allocate the time and only contribute 
small comments (but this hasn't stopped me in the past, doh).

I look forward to future post and hopefully a following from your 
involvement with the site.  It looks like the first post is generating a 
few comments.

Best Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

On 09/07/2012 05:31 PM, Christopher Felton wrote:
> On 9/7/12 2:25 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
>> On 09/07/2012 03:14 AM, Christopher Felton wrote:
>>> Jan has posted an interesting blog post
>>> "MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL"
>>> http://bit.ly/ToK6xg at the All Programmable
>>> Planet, http://www.programmableplanet.com/.
>>>
>>> Be sure and check out the post and contribute
>>> to the conversation.
>>
>> Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
>> on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
>> "the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
>> should give us visibility and spur some interesting
>> discussions :-)
>>
>> I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.
>>
>
> It is interesting to see the comments to the blog post.  But there has
> not been many "interesting conversations", yet.  There appears to be two
> types of "commentors".  One, those who have very general comments and
> also comments on most of the other blogs in a general way.  They seem to
> have neutral comments, e.g. "it seems interesting".  Or comments for the
> sake of commenting?
>
> Second, are those who seem opposed to the idea and have long post (not
> sure if these long post say much).  But these users "hide" there
> identity, so it is hard to take them serious, was it a drunken rant that
> they were not afraid to post because it had little to no repercussions?
>    Is it worth investing time rebutting their comments?  We have seen on
> this mailing-list a lot of effort can spent with little progress of
> understanding.
>
> I would love to contribute to the conversation, because I agree this
> seems like a good forum to get some interest.  But, I don't know if I
> can invest the time to clearly state my case why I think MyHDL is great
> and explain how my returns from my investment are huge.  I think it will
> drive me crazy not being able to allocate the time and only contribute
> small comments (but this hasn't stopped me in the past, doh).
>
> I look forward to future post and hopefully a following from your
> involvement with the site.  It looks like the first post is generating a
> few comments.

Chris et al:

I think there are some crucial differences with the newsgroup:

First, we will get a lot of visibility by all kinds of people,
not necessarily interested in MyHDL in the first place. We
should take that into account.

Second, we are at the steering wheel. (Well in fact, I am.) I think
there's a big difference in perception between the original blogger
and the commentators. Let's use that power.

Therefore, we should approach this differently than in the newsgroup.

First, remember the politician's attitude: "Any publicity is good
publicity". Let's not worry too much about negative reactions: many
people will think differently. BTW, so far I think reactions are
reasonable and as could be expected.

Second, we have the power to address any specific topics in a blog
with much more visiblity/credibility. Just let me know about
any frustrations!

Personally, I will try to keep comments short and to the point,
and try not to sound defensive - we have a strong case!

-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
     Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org
     VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com
     World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 9/7/12 2:18 PM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 05:31 PM, Christopher Felton wrote:
>> On 9/7/12 2:25 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
>>> On 09/07/2012 03:14 AM, Christopher Felton wrote:
<snip>
>>
>> I look forward to future post and hopefully a following from your
>> involvement with the site.  It looks like the first post is generating a
>> few comments.
>
> Chris et al:
>
> I think there are some crucial differences with the newsgroup:
>
> First, we will get a lot of visibility by all kinds of people,
> not necessarily interested in MyHDL in the first place. We
> should take that into account.
>
> Second, we are at the steering wheel. (Well in fact, I am.) I think
> there's a big difference in perception between the original blogger
> and the commentators. Let's use that power.
>
> Therefore, we should approach this differently than in the newsgroup.
>
> First, remember the politician's attitude: "Any publicity is good
> publicity". Let's not worry too much about negative reactions: many
> people will think differently. BTW, so far I think reactions are
> reasonable and as could be expected.
>
> Second, we have the power to address any specific topics in a blog
> with much more visiblity/credibility. Just let me know about
> any frustrations!
>
> Personally, I will try to keep comments short and to the point,
> and try not to sound defensive - we have a strong case!
>

Good points and advice, many rat-holes can be avoided :)  Definitely a 
lot of activity on the topic -- which is good --.  It will be 
interesting to see this progress.

Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 9/7/2012 2:25 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> On 09/07/2012 03:14 AM, Christopher Felton wrote:
>> Jan has posted an interesting blog post
>> "MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL"
>> http://bit.ly/ToK6xg at the All Programmable
>> Planet, http://www.programmableplanet.com/.
>>
>> Be sure and check out the post and contribute
>> to the conversation.
>
> Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
> on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
> "the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
> should give us visibility and spur some interesting
> discussions :-)
>
> I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.
>

Has anyone else read the blog on APP?  Anyone read the comments?

As usual, I think the blog post Jan D. wrote is very good.  Jan has a 
good ability of explaining concepts.  If you have not read the post, it 
is worth reading, http://bit.ly/ToK6xg.

Jan's Post Covers the following topics::

    * Integer arithmetic
    * Constant representation.
    * Variables
    * RTL abstraction
    * Modern coding practices

For more information on the first topic, see Jan's "These Ints are Made 
For Countin'" essay http://jandecaluwe.com/hdldesign/counting.html.

For me, the "RTL abstraction" section touched on some important points. 
  How do you effectively teach complex digital systems architecture and 
implementation (HDL) and the low-level digital circuits?  I see this as 
a failure in the current education sytle.  We teach the digital systems 
and HDL the same as the digital circuits, from the bottom-up.  Even 
folks that are teaching themselves HDL appear to fall into folly.

@jan, since you implicitly mentioned always_seq we should consider a 
release, I will help as much as I can with a 0.8 release :)

Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

<snip>
>
> As usual, I think the blog post Jan D. wrote is very good.  Jan has a
> good ability of explaining concepts.  If you have not read the post, it
> is worth reading, http://bit.ly/ToK6xg.
>

There has been some concern about shortened links (I never really 
thought about it).  The issues are; 1) longevity, 2) where am I going? 
3) obfuscation.  I don't want to discourage anyone from following the 
link, here is the full URL.

http://www.programmableplanet.com/author.asp?section_id=2438&doc_id=250236&

I don't know others opinion on shorten links, mine is a small 
preference, a long URL breaks up the sentence / paragraph, not as much 
with shortened-links.  In the future if I use a shortened link I will 
provide the full link at the end of the response/post.

Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

On 09/12/2012 04:15 PM, Christopher Felton wrote:

>
> @jan, since you implicitly mentioned always_seq we should consider a
> release, I will help as much as I can with a 0.8 release :)

I know, it's becoming urgent. Problem is APP is distracting
me and moreover I'm in the middle of a project (also using
MyHDL) with deadlines!


-- 
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
     Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org
     VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com
     World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Norbo <Nor...@gm...>]

Am 12.09.2012, 16:15 Uhr, schrieb Christopher Felton  
<chr...@gm...>:

> On 9/7/2012 2:25 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
>> On 09/07/2012 03:14 AM, Christopher Felton wrote:
>>> Jan has posted an interesting blog post
>>> "MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL"
>>> http://bit.ly/ToK6xg at the All Programmable
>>> Planet, http://www.programmableplanet.com/.
>>>
>>> Be sure and check out the post and contribute
>>> to the conversation.
>>
>> Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
>> on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
>> "the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
>> should give us visibility and spur some interesting
>> discussions :-)
>>
>> I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.
>>
>
> Has anyone else read the blog on APP?  Anyone read the comments?

Yes i have read through it.

After using myhdl for some time now i really would not want to switch back  
to vhdl or systemC or systemVerilog.
I think the reason is that when i write in myhdl i have to remember way  
less syntax and function calls with parameters (like with which types can  
i use with to_unsigned(..) function,is a bitwidth needed?, or how to use  
the shift_left(..) function, which types does the function needs,etc..)
So i actually can write hardware code without visiting "google" and or  
different manuals every once and a while.

I think there is a tendency not to switch back once one really got started  
with myhdl. Is this only my impression?


greetings
Norbo

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 9/16/12 10:42 AM, Norbo wrote:
> Am 12.09.2012, 16:15 Uhr, schrieb Christopher Felton
> <chr...@gm...>:
>
<snip>
>
> I think there is a tendency not to switch back once one really got started
> with myhdl. Is this only my impression?
>

Been my experience and observation as well.

>
> greetings
> Norbo
>
>

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Werner T. <we...@th...>]

Hi all

..snip..
>>> Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
>>> on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
>>> "the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
>>> should give us visibility and spur some interesting
>>> discussions :-)
>>>
>>> I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.
>>>
>>
>> Has anyone else read the blog on APP?  Anyone read the comments?

Yes, thumbs up and continue

..snip..
> After using myhdl for some time now i really would not want to switch back
> to vhdl or systemC or systemVerilog.
> I think the reason is that when i write in myhdl i have to remember way
> less syntax and function calls with parameters (like with which types can
> i use with to_unsigned(..) function,is a bitwidth needed?, or how to use
> the shift_left(..) function, which types does the function needs,etc..)
> So i actually can write hardware code without visiting "google" and or
> different manuals every once and a while.

I believe, that the feeling of 'not wanting to go back' has a lot to do 
with the investment which goes with whatever tool you choose, 
investments oftentimes so big, that you're locked in. Which is exactly 
the strategy of the guys selling tools, luring people into their nets, 
entangle them such, that there is no way out anymore. Happened in CAD 
software, it's also happening in the HDL sector, with all the IDE's and 
basic stuff being free, but if you want to access certain features then 
you'll bleed, which all the more make those being entangled advocates of 
whatever they're hooked into.

With OpenSource projects like MyHDL there is a way out of this 
dependency mess, MyHDL is not trivial, the investment is also high, but 
gaining that freedom running your business like you want to run it, 
instead of some other paid guys telling you how, is the beauty of 
OpenSource.

On the other hand does OpenSource suffer from projects becoming 
fractured such, that their is not a group working on it, but a single 
individual. Rolling your own, by branching off or redoing things from 
scratch sometimes wastes a lot of energy.

All in all I really like MyHDL because it's dependable, it evolves, it 
has a lot of potential and it let's you do stuff, which might not be 
possible with basic tools at the level of manpower and money at least I 
have at my disposition, while the quality and expressiveness of the code 
is at a level where maintainability for longer time frames is given.

Just wanted to say thank you to all who invested time into MyHDL

Werner

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 9/16/12 7:16 PM, Werner Thie wrote:
> Hi all
>
> ..snip..
>>>> Yes, I have been invited by Max Maxfield to become a blogger
>>>> on that site. I was looking for a good forum to tell
>>>> "the MyHDL story" for some time, and this looks ideal. It
>>>> should give us visibility and spur some interesting
>>>> discussions :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to blog every 2 weeks or so.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone else read the blog on APP?  Anyone read the comments?
>
> Yes, thumbs up and continue
>
> ..snip..
>> After using myhdl for some time now i really would not want to switch back
>> to vhdl or systemC or systemVerilog.
>> I think the reason is that when i write in myhdl i have to remember way
>> less syntax and function calls with parameters (like with which types can
>> i use with to_unsigned(..) function,is a bitwidth needed?, or how to use
>> the shift_left(..) function, which types does the function needs,etc..)
>> So i actually can write hardware code without visiting "google" and or
>> different manuals every once and a while.
>
> I believe, that the feeling of 'not wanting to go back' has a lot to do
> with the investment which goes with whatever tool you choose,
> investments oftentimes so big, that you're locked in. Which is exactly
> the strategy of the guys selling tools, luring people into their nets,
> entangle them such, that there is no way out anymore. Happened in CAD
> software, it's also happening in the HDL sector, with all the IDE's and
> basic stuff being free, but if you want to access certain features then
> you'll bleed, which all the more make those being entangled advocates of
> whatever they're hooked into.
>

I partially agree with this but I don't see it as much as a "don't go 
back" but more of a "why learn something else/new".

In my opinion MyHDL/Python is different.  I have seen enough folks try 
to learn some other HDL technology and not adopt it, e.g. someone who 
knows Verilog learning VHDL or vise-vera.  I also see people put 
significant resources into learning SV, convertible Matlab subset, e, 
bluespec, SystemC, etc.  Each of those has different utility but we are 
talking about the time invested to learn a technology.

I am sure their are those that have put some effort into MyHDL and have 
not reaped dividends.  But, I think that is a different case, the folks 
that have tried MyHDL and failed are typically not digital system 
designers or prior HDL professionals.

Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Jan D. <ja...@ja...>]

On 09/12/2012 04:15 PM, Christopher Felton wrote:

> Has anyone else read the blog on APP?  Anyone read the comments?
>
> As usual, I think the blog post Jan D. wrote is very good.  Jan has a
> good ability of explaining concepts.

Thanks for the encouraging words. Unfortunately, not everyone
shares this opinion.

I didn't feel like it was a resounding success. As usual, I
was not prepared for the amount of nonsense that you can get
as feedback. The "conventional wisdom" is extremely strong.
So strong in fact, that people go as far as calling my
carefully crafted post as "misleading" and a "disservice",
instead of as an invitation for fresh, independent thinking.

When something like that happens, I tend to forget the lessons
I try to teach myself and others, and I let everyone know that
I don't find such a qualification acceptable.

A problem with APP is that it sends out confusing messages.
The quality of the contributions is very uneven, especially
in the comment sections. Some total newbies in HDL design
are listed as guru, and vice versa. How is novice supposed
to know what information to trust?

Anyway, I have a new blog post almost ready. Let's try again.

--
Jan Decaluwe - Resources bvba - http://www.jandecaluwe.com
     Python as a HDL: http://www.myhdl.org
     VHDL development, the modern way: http://www.sigasi.com
     World-class digital design: http://www.easics.com

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 9/17/2012 4:44 AM, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
> On 09/12/2012 04:15 PM, Christopher Felton wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else read the blog on APP?  Anyone read the comments?
>>
>> As usual, I think the blog post Jan D. wrote is very good.  Jan has a
>> good ability of explaining concepts.
>
> Thanks for the encouraging words. Unfortunately, not everyone
> shares this opinion.
>
> I didn't feel like it was a resounding success. As usual, I
> was not prepared for the amount of nonsense that you can get
> as feedback. The "conventional wisdom" is extremely strong.
> So strong in fact, that people go as far as calling my
> carefully crafted post as "misleading" and a "disservice",
> instead of as an invitation for fresh, independent thinking.

Your original thought is probably correct; you sparked interest in MyHDL 
to a few who are not vocal on the message board.  And you taught a ton 
of readers more about their current HDL.

The lack of interest for something new / different is odd.  None of the 
commentors made had good technical rebuttals to the post.  If there was 
technical content it was more about being defensive about their current 
HDL.  I am suprised at the number of people that view Python as a 
scripting language.

The "misleading" and "disservice" is ridiculous.  Even if someone does 
not want to learn Python/MyHDL they can learn a lot about their own HDL 
from the information.

>
> When something like that happens, I tend to forget the lessons
> I try to teach myself and others, and I let everyone know that
> I don't find such a qualification acceptable.
>
> A problem with APP is that it sends out confusing messages.
> The quality of the contributions is very uneven, especially
> in the comment sections. Some total newbies in HDL design
> are listed as guru, and vice versa. How is novice supposed
> to know what information to trust?

There's a couple technical issues with the site, as you mention, in the 
comments sections users get an arbitrary "user rank".  Which appears to 
be based on the number of comments you post (not the quality of the 
comments).  Second, the comment "threading view" is useless.  If you get 
beyond a couple response in a thread the comments reduce to less than a 
word per line.  Not having a threaded view makes it difficult to follow 
the different conversations.  But the site is young, I imagine it can 
improve these deficiencies.

>
> Anyway, I have a new blog post almost ready. Let's try again.
>

I look forward to a new post and it will be interesting to see the 
responses :)

Regards,
Chris

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Jonas <jon...@gm...>]

Christopher Felton <chris.felton <at> gmail.com> writes:

> For more information on the first topic, see Jan's "These Ints are Made 
> For Countin'" essay http://jandecaluwe.com/hdldesign/counting.html.

> For me, the "RTL abstraction" section touched on some important points. 
>   How do you effectively teach complex digital systems architecture and 
> implementation (HDL) and the low-level digital circuits?  I see this as 
> a failure in the current education sytle.  We teach the digital systems 
> and HDL the same as the digital circuits, from the bottom-up.  Even 
> folks that are teaching themselves HDL appear to fall into folly.

I was working with VHDL a while ago. I liked a lot the very flexible type
system and the philosophy about code readability even if it results in more
typing. All those good features comes from Ada, on which VHDL was greatly
inspired. From all the languages I know, I see Ada as the best source of
inpiration for an HDL, because you could have a very flexible language with
high level constructs (for each loops, array slicing, attributes, ...), but
with the possibility of specifying low level details. Unfortunately VHDL
wasn't as much fun as it could be for several reasons. One reason was that
VHDL use the good concepts from Ada only halfway. For example the numbers
management. numbers (signed and unsigned) where defined as array of
characters, so they were represented like strings. Then working with them,
doing mixed arithmetics with integer and signed or unsigned wasn't that
natural and has some quirks. In Ada you can optionnally tell the hardware
representation of a variable or a type with a "for ... use" clause. Why not
using such a mechanism in VHDL and than use signed and unsigned types as
real integer ? Then working with numbers could be as easy as that :

  -- VHDL builtins
  type unsigned is range 0 to ∞;
  subtype sys_unsigned is unsigned range 0 to MAX_UNSIGNED;
  --

  variable A : sys_unsigned;
  variable B : unsigned slice 7 downto 0;
  variable C : unsigned slice 8 downto 0;

  A := 2;
  B := A.Fit; -- Resizing is needed here
  C := B + B;
  -- Repr attribute give the hardware representation
  B'Repr <= A'Repr(5 downto 0) & "00"; 

We can even extend the mecanism to other things like enumerate types :

  type Enum is (A, B, C) with (A => "00", B => "11", C => "01");
  type Enum_2 is (D, E, F, G) with Gray_Encoding;

A bigger reason of my bad experience with VHDL, was the persistant mentality
among the community of VHDL to think low level only, even in situation when
thinking high level makes a lot more sense. That leaded to absurd and
outdated coding standards like transforming everything to std_logic or
std_logic_vector in the ports of entities (including unsigned/signed signals
although they are represented exactly the same way as std_logic_vector)
instead of keeping the higher level types, which makes it harder to read and
more error prone. And those coding standards gets imposed upon you but
nobody can tell you why. All you hear is something like "the VHDL experts
told that it has to be done that way".

Even if it sounds weird to me to use python to do HDL, at least I like the
idea of bringing modern ideas and a different mentality in the HDL community.

Re: [myhdl-list] MyHDL : The Case for a Better HDL

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

On 8/26/2013 5:04 PM, Jonas wrote:
> Christopher Felton <chris.felton <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> For more information on the first topic, see Jan's "These Ints are Made
>> For Countin'" essay http://jandecaluwe.com/hdldesign/counting.html.
>
>> For me, the "RTL abstraction" section touched on some important points.
>>    How do you effectively teach complex digital systems architecture and
>> implementation (HDL) and the low-level digital circuits?  I see this as
>> a failure in the current education sytle.  We teach the digital systems
>> and HDL the same as the digital circuits, from the bottom-up.  Even
>> folks that are teaching themselves HDL appear to fall into folly.
>
> I was working with VHDL a while ago. I liked a lot the very flexible type
> system and the philosophy about code readability even if it results in more
> typing. All those good features comes from Ada, on which VHDL was greatly
> inspired. From all the languages I know, I see Ada as the best source of
> inpiration for an HDL, because you could have a very flexible language with
> high level constructs (for each loops, array slicing, attributes, ...), but
> with the possibility of specifying low level details.

I believe Jan D. has similar views, see the Ada
reference in the /modbv/ MEP:
http://myhdl.org/doku.php/meps:mep-106

<snip>
>
> A bigger reason of my bad experience with VHDL, was the persistant mentality
> among the community of VHDL to think low level only, even in situation when
> thinking high level makes a lot more sense.

Amen, your preaching to the choir!  Emphasis on
the *only*.  Need to navigate the trees and the
forest.

>That leaded to absurd and
> outdated coding standards like transforming everything to std_logic or
> std_logic_vector in the ports of entities (including unsigned/signed signals
> although they are represented exactly the same way as std_logic_vector)
> instead of keeping the higher level types, which makes it harder to read and
> more error prone. And those coding standards gets imposed upon you but
> nobody can tell you why. All you hear is something like "the VHDL experts
> told that it has to be done that way".
>

The infamous "experts" :)

> Even if it sounds weird to me to use python to do HDL, at least I like the
> idea of bringing modern ideas and a different mentality in the HDL community.
>

One thing you probably (I stand on limbs) don't find
absurd, is the use of a high-level language for modeling
and verification.  The use of Python for digital system
modeling and verification is very nice, very nice.  And
it is a bonus

Regards,
Chris