Re: [myhdl-list] Github staging and works in progress

[Jose M. G. C. <ch...@gm...>]

Dear Jan,

First of all, let me apologize for my yesterday wording, it was rude.

Second, I am sorry to say that what I said is still valid, now myhdl has new bugs.

Finally let me put it clear, I did not insult you, I just answered in the same way you answer to me, and sincerely, it hurts.

Best,

	Jose M.

> El 16/7/2015, a las 11:21, Henry Gomersall <he...@ca...> escribió:
> 
> On 16/07/15 08:54, Jan Decaluwe wrote:
>>> On a similar vein, I've sometimes failed to get useful feedback on
>>>> specific implementations that are distinctly a work in progress, but
>>>> need feedback to proceed. Specifically, issue #68 in which I have
>>>> half of a complete implementation for that particular problem. It's
>>>> distinctly not PR ready, but is a WIP. I'm somewhat disinclined to
>>>> sink any more time into it without some further constructive
>>>> feedback, which I attempted to garner without much success.
>> Interesting that you mention #68. That can hardly be seen as an
>> example where it's difficult to engage me in discussions. The
>> problem rather is, that several people seem unwilling to listen
>> and unwilling to look at the broader perspective beyond their
>> own pet feature.
> 
> The problem wasn't #68 per se, but rather there was no route to discuss 
> the specific implementation. Now, whether you agree or not the problem 
> is worth working on, there is clearly something that is irking people. 
> Personally, I don't have much interest in solving #68 - I worked on it 
> because I thought it was an interesting problem from a programming 
> perspective. I stopped because the one response was a snarky comment 
> from you about run time that I was fully aware of and disclosed and 
> wasn't really what I was garnering feedback on (the run time issue was 
> due to it being a wip and is easy to remove with a little effort).
> 
>>>> I feel there is quite a bit that could be done very easily to make
>>>> contributors feel more welcome. A mechanism for better and more
>>>> patient code collaboration for WIPs would go a long way to this end.
>>>> Perhaps if Jan doesn't wish to be involved with this, a second mirror
>>>> repository on github could take on that role.
>> If it's not clear: my goal is not to make contributors happy. It
>> is to have users hate me less. In fact that should be obvious and
>> the difference also.
>> 
>> For every mediocre PR that I accept there will be 1 happy contributor
>> and hunderds of users that hate me even more.
>> 
>> Moreover, I have had very bad experiences in the past with would-be
>> contributors whose self-confidence was much higher than their
>> technological skills. In addition to no interest, I simply have no time for
>> that anymore. That is a very important pratical limitation which
>> everyone should simply respect.
> 
> With respect Jan, you can't start out by assuming everyone is 
> incompetent, and certainly it is the case that areas of competence are 
> not always overlapping. E.g. being a python guru is useful even if the 
> person knows nothing about HDL, assuming the skills can be directed 
> appropriately - the other skills will be developed along the way.
> 
> Even the soft skills, like good management of contributors would be a 
> big plus to the project. This isn't Linux, with the huge commercial 
> resources backing it and a small army of full time developers to raise 
> the contributions bar.
> 
>> 
>> What MyHDL needs most in my opinion is not all kinds of new features.
>> It is full of features that are underutilized and the most important
>> contribution would be by users publishing about their work. No,
>> what it needs is a better and more robust implementation. Even though
>> jck has done a tremendous job in this in 0.9, I feel there is still
>> a lot that can be done. Such "mundane" hard work gets my first priority
>> and respect.
> I fully concur with the sentiment, but community building just doesn't 
> happen like that. People take an interest and are motivated by their 
> personal itch that needs scratching, and then they work on the bigger 
> problems as they get sucked in.
> 
> Perhaps you're not interested in building a community, but by your own 
> admission you're short of time.
> 
>> As it now has come to the point when a contributor found it appropriate
>> to insult me for not including his mediocre PR #101, I'd like to reconsider
>> the whole labeling thing. I fear it may turn the PR area into a dumping
>> ground on unfinished and dubious work. Like people that think they
>> solve a problem by sending an email. I prefer not to play a role in that.
>> 
>> I prefer the jck model of the past. Very hard work in the background, and
>> then I get a PR that is obviously brilliant. Look at those PRs. They are by
>> far the most complex contributions till now. Yet it didn't take me
>> much time to pull them in.
> 
> #101 is a good point to raise. I think jmgc should certainly have been 
> more polite in what he wrote, but it's not like you've been carefully 
> wordsmithing your criticism of him (or anyone else for that matter).
> 
> If you're not willing to take on the burden of interacting on the level 
> that is necessary, let others help you. Ruling with an iron fist is all 
> good and well, but it rather requires you to engage fully (lest people 
> fork or simply bugger off).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Henry
> 
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