Re: [myhdl-list] Starting over

[Christopher F. <chr...@gm...>]

> On 04/22/2012 01:02 PM, David Greenberg wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>> I wanted to let you know about my own solution to this problem, a
>> language embedded in Clojure called Piplin. I initially sought to use
>> MyHDL for some of the reasons you did (integration ease) and some
>> other reasons (leveraging type systems and new syntax to improve
>> expressiveness). Yesterday, I successfully synthesized the code to
>> verilog. I've implemented the type system and simulator too, but
>> there's a lot of work to be done. Since it's embedded in Java, it's
>> easy to use all kinds of numerical libraries and integrate with many
>> systems. Here's the code: github.com/dgrnbrg/piplin
>>
> Hi David,
>
> I have negligible experience with Clojure, possibly because it
> resurrects my Lisp nightmares of paren counting and infinite
> recursion through tangled lists.
>
> I will take a look at your project as soon as time permits, which
> unfortunately may not be until next weekend.  I am motivated to see
> how you have approached the general issue, and what factors have
> shaped your particular approach.
>
> Most of all, thanks for your supportive reply!  I really hate
> criticizing Jan, especially when I know I'm trying to do battle
> unarmed.  Yet I'm light-years away from even formulating, much less
> implementing, my own solution to the problem.  So I'm highly
> motivated to learn what others, such as you, are doing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -BobC

Some of Peter Novig's comments on different programming languages I have 
found informative.  Although the following is a quote of a paraphrase I 
think it captures some related points.

"""
Peter made, primarily that Python is very effective, very expressive, 
and can cut out a lot of the bullshit that most Java programmers deal 
with on a regular basis.
"""

I think the same could be said for lisp on-top of Java (or whatever the 
hell Clojure is).

As mentioned numerous times in this thread and Jan D. stated eloquently 
in one of the latest replies.  No one is trying to discourage other 
projects or experimenting with different languages, levels of 
abstraction, new feature, etc.

The following line from Jan's response I think describes many of the 
conversations (or lack of).

> I am therefore frustrated by the fact that I hear all kinds
> of opinions and suggestions to "merge" but that whenever things
> get a little technical then the "I am a beginner" umbrella opens.

In the above replace "merge" with "add XYZ language feature".  There are 
periodic suggestions to the newsgroup to add the latest high-level 
abstraction method.  But after the initial "You really should have ..." 
or better "I really need ..." the potentially great conversations fade, 
why?

Personally, I am disappointed that this newsgroup has been infiltrated 
with a number of "hey people that follow MyHDL come check out my ...". 
I just don't see this in other Project specific mailing-lists.  I think 
open conversation why 'X' is better than 'Y' is always great.  Let the 
learning and growing flow.

What could have been useful is a discussion, why you didn't think Python 
was the correct platform for your project.  And why a functional 
language serves your goals better Python or existing functional language 
HDLs like Lava.  Then you could have advertised another project, gave 
useful feedback to this project, and possibly had some great and 
educational conversations.

Regards,
Chris