mod-pubsub-developer — Developer list for mod_pubsub

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Intent to do damgage

[<kr...@po...>]

Tom writes:
> This [each participant, not a single server, having the state] would
> work out great for the game idea. Many games often require that some
> of the other players units, hands, etc, remain hidden to the other
> players. Thus each players state is all that is known localy to
> them, When the state info of each player comingles at the server
> level(?) the new states for each player can be computated and sent
> off.

If the players trust each other, then their web browsers can all know
everybody else's state.  

If the players don't trust each other, but individual players have no
reason to share information about their hands with another player, a
single trusted central server --- which can run in somebody's web
browser and talk to everyone else through mod_pubsub --- can hold
everybody's information.  (Cryptographic algorithms can also help in
some cases.)  

If the players don't trust each other, and individual players have an
incentive to share their hands with other players (e.g. bridge), then
you can't play over the Internet, or phone, or postal mail, because
they can contact each other without the other players knowing.  Sorry.

BTW, in 2000, Adam (or Rohit?) spent about half an hour taking some
random JavaScript connect-four game and converting it to a real-time
networked connect-four game, using what we now call mod_pubsub.  It
rocked.

-- 
<kr...@po...>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  The world has lost a great
man.  See http://advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=252 and
http://www.kode-fu.com/geek/2002_08_04_archive.shtml for details.

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Asynch M. <asy...@ho...>]

Some more updates...
Added unsubscribe when switching sections (thanks Ben)
Added extraction of more metadata (so you get song artist & lead in movies)

I noticed that The Hobbit/LOTR has moved from #13 to #10.
Top Album is Come Away With Me (Norah Jones) - which I am listening to as I
write... I love it. My sister-in-law even picked that song for her reception
dance when she got married last month.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>
To: <mod...@li...>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


> Server seems to be up again.
> I've updated the amazonpop sample - replaced images with text (thanks Ben
S)
> I still need to add an explicit unsubscribe when switching sections - I'm
> getting crosstalk between topics (events still delivered on the open
> connection)
>
> If anybody likes doing javascript/dhtml work, add some cool stuff if you
> like.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>
> To: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>;
> <mod...@li...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
Amazon"
>
>
> > Yes the server is down. Don't know why..
> >
> > I checked in updates to the app though - I am using the correct
affiliate
> > ID,and correctly get the list for other non-book categories (you
> apparently
> > need both the BrowseID and the mode= parameter)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> > To: <mod...@li...>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> Amazon"
> >
> >
> > > Is the server down? I can't connect to anything at that URI.
> > >
> > > -- Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > Asynch Messaging wrote:
> > > > Okay - I've updated the app to sort based on SalesRank. Still
getting
> > > > missing slots from Amazon.
> > > > I show the up/down motion via a little graphic.
> > > > Updated the background schedule for once a minute. We'll see if the
> > server
> > > > running that script pukes or if Amazon shuts me out.
> > > > Also... Jeff said the URLs don't incorporate my affiliateID
> correctly -
> > does
> > > > anyone else have examples of this?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>
> > > > To: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Asynch Messaging"
> > > > <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera"
> > > > <sc...@sc...>
> > > > Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>;
> > "Tommy
> > > > Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:06 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> > Amazon"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I
> > have
> > > >
> > > > done some regression tests against catalog data, running
> > > >
> > > >>the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see
> changes
> > in
> > > >
> > > > sales rank within this time window.
> > > >
> > > >>You do need to fix the URIs:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W
> > > > 7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
> > > >
> > > >>05AUGP
> > > >>
> > > >>Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get
credit
> > for
> > > >
> > > > purchases.
> > > >
> > > >>For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales
rank,
> > and
> > > >
> > > > then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
> > > >
> > > >>the change?
> > > >>
> > > >>Jeff;
> > > >>
> > > >>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
> > > >>To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew
> > > >
> > > > LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> > > >
> > > >>Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>;
> > "Tommy
> > > >
> > > > Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> > > >
> > > >>Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
> > > >>Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> > > >
> > > > Amazon"
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>>This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>   :) Adam
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> > > > With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> > > > Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> > > > http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> > > > Mod...@li...
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> > > With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> > > Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> > > http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> > > Mod...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> > >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> > With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> > Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> > http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> > Mod...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
>

[Mod-pubsub-developer] Re: Live demo of mod_pubsub on Sourceforge.net

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

This is a really good idea, Ken.  Will put it on the "to do" list...

  :) Adam


P.S. -- No worries about not getting back to it.  We're casual and take =
a
"look at it when you can" philosophy.  :)


-----Original Message-----
From: Rodent of Unusual Size [mailto:Ken...@Go...]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 8:00 PM
To: Adam Rifkin
Subject: Re: mod_pubsub


Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
>=20
> i'll try to take a look at this on sunday.  ping me if i don't say =
anything
> within a couple of days; i'm easily distracted by shiny objects.

sf.net allows cgi scripts, i do believe, so why not live-demo this on =
the
site?

(i frankly didn't have time to get back to it today..)
--=20
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"

[Mod-pubsub-developer] pubsub.py mostly passing test suite

[<kra...@ca...>]

I got pubsub.py to pass 50 of the 55 tests in pubsub_test.cgi.  I
found a little bug in pubsub.py that broke things pretty thoroughly at
first; here's a patch to fix it.

--- pubsub.py.      Wed Nov  6 01:24:53 2002
+++ pubsub.py   Mon Dec 16 07:26:14 2002
@@ -993,7 +993,7 @@
         # in places where we're passed just a path, we should not remove self.urlroot;
         # in places where we're passed an entire URI, we should.
         (_, _, path, _, _, _) = urlparse.urlparse(uri)
-        urlroot = "/%s/" % self.urlroot()
+        urlroot = "/%s" % self.urlroot()
         if (path == urlroot) or (string.find(path, urlroot + "/")) == 0: path = path[len(urlroot):]
         return self.server.root_topic.get_descendant(filter(lambda x: x != '', string.split(path, '/')))
     def getservername(self):

With this fixed, I started the server (with the command line
"./pubsub.py 8090 ..", where .. is a literal .., meaning 'the parent
directory') and ran the tests by visiting the URL
"http://localhost/~kragen/cgi-bin/pubsub_test.cgi?url=http://localhost:8090/kn".

The following tests still fail:
- content transform: requires off-host posting
- evil characters in route-to URL: fails with an error, which is arguably correct behavior;
  the test expects the route to be created successfully and do nothing instead.
- kn_time_t on forwarded HTTP posts: requires off-host posting
- replay of events and replay of events with warp factor: replay isn't implemented

I looked for the above bug for several hours last night, and
apparently I found it in my sleep, because I fixed it within about
five minutes this morning.

It still doesn't work with any apps, because they all expect to find
the topic tree (and the JS microserver) at
"../../cgi-bin/pubsub.cgi?do_method=lib", which doesn't work.  (It did
for a week or two in early 2001, but then I changed pubsub.py to act
like the C++ router, not like pubsub.cgi, and use "/kn" instead.)
Once I change that back, it might work fine; none of the JavaScript
apps depend on any of the features in the failing tests.

I'll commit the above change to CVS as soon as I have a chance; I plan
to attend the Creative Commons launch party this afternoon, so I may
not have time today.

-- 
<kr...@po...>       Kragen Sitaker     <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  The world has lost a great
man.  See http://advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=252 and
http://www.kode-fu.com/geek/2002_08_04_archive.shtml for details.

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Asynch M. <asy...@ho...>]

Server seems to be up again.
I've updated the amazonpop sample - replaced images with text (thanks Ben S)
I still need to add an explicit unsubscribe when switching sections - I'm
getting crosstalk between topics (events still delivered on the open
connection)

If anybody likes doing javascript/dhtml work, add some cool stuff if you
like.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>
To: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>;
<mod...@li...>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


> Yes the server is down. Don't know why..
>
> I checked in updates to the app though - I am using the correct affiliate
> ID,and correctly get the list for other non-book categories (you
apparently
> need both the BrowseID and the mode= parameter)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> To: <mod...@li...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
Amazon"
>
>
> > Is the server down? I can't connect to anything at that URI.
> >
> > -- Scott
> >
> >
> > Asynch Messaging wrote:
> > > Okay - I've updated the app to sort based on SalesRank. Still getting
> > > missing slots from Amazon.
> > > I show the up/down motion via a little graphic.
> > > Updated the background schedule for once a minute. We'll see if the
> server
> > > running that script pukes or if Amazon shuts me out.
> > > Also... Jeff said the URLs don't incorporate my affiliateID
correctly -
> does
> > > anyone else have examples of this?
> > >
> > > http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>
> > > To: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Asynch Messaging"
> > > <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera"
> > > <sc...@sc...>
> > > Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>;
> "Tommy
> > > Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:06 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> Amazon"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I
> have
> > >
> > > done some regression tests against catalog data, running
> > >
> > >>the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see
changes
> in
> > >
> > > sales rank within this time window.
> > >
> > >>You do need to fix the URIs:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W
> > > 7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
> > >
> > >>05AUGP
> > >>
> > >>Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get credit
> for
> > >
> > > purchases.
> > >
> > >>For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales rank,
> and
> > >
> > > then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
> > >
> > >>the change?
> > >>
> > >>Jeff;
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
> > >>To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew
> > >
> > > LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> > >
> > >>Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>;
> "Tommy
> > >
> > > Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> > >
> > >>Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
> > >>Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> > >
> > > Amazon"
> > >
> > >>
> > >>>This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
> > >>>
> > >>>Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
> > >>>
> > >>>   :) Adam
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> > > With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> > > Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> > > http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> > > Mod...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> > With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> > Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> > http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> > Mod...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
>

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] New installation instructions

[BC S. <bsi...@in...>]

It only needs to be writable by the user pubsub.cgi runs as.

----- Original Message -----
From: Wilfredo_Sánchez <wsa...@ap...>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 13:46:37 -0800 
To: Joyce Park <tru...@ya...>
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] New installation instructions

>    World-writable, or writable by the web server user (www, nobody, 
> whatever)?  Requiring a world-writable is dumb.  That's your bug if so.
> 
> 	-wsv
> 
> On Monday, December 2, 2002, at 11:35 PM, Joyce Park wrote:
> 
> > 3)  You're supposed to create a world-writeable directory called
> > kn_events -- but after the mod_pubsub server starts writing to that
> > directory, you have to change the permissions again to make its
> > subdirectories world-writeable too.  I think this is a bug, I'm going
> > to file it.
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer

-- 
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Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Asynch M. <asy...@ho...>]

Yes the server is down. Don't know why..

I checked in updates to the app though - I am using the correct affiliate
ID,and correctly get the list for other non-book categories (you apparently
need both the BrowseID and the mode= parameter)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
To: <mod...@li...>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


> Is the server down? I can't connect to anything at that URI.
>
> -- Scott
>
>
> Asynch Messaging wrote:
> > Okay - I've updated the app to sort based on SalesRank. Still getting
> > missing slots from Amazon.
> > I show the up/down motion via a little graphic.
> > Updated the background schedule for once a minute. We'll see if the
server
> > running that script pukes or if Amazon shuts me out.
> > Also... Jeff said the URLs don't incorporate my affiliateID correctly -
does
> > anyone else have examples of this?
> >
> > http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>
> > To: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Asynch Messaging"
> > <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera"
> > <sc...@sc...>
> > Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>;
"Tommy
> > Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
Amazon"
> >
> >
> >
> >>This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I
have
> >
> > done some regression tests against catalog data, running
> >
> >>the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see changes
in
> >
> > sales rank within this time window.
> >
> >>You do need to fix the URIs:
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W
> > 7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
> >
> >>05AUGP
> >>
> >>Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get credit
for
> >
> > purchases.
> >
> >>For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales rank,
and
> >
> > then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
> >
> >>the change?
> >>
> >>Jeff;
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
> >>To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew
> >
> > LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> >
> >>Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>;
"Tommy
> >
> > Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> >
> >>Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
> >>Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> >
> > Amazon"
> >
> >>
> >>>This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
> >>>
> >>>Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
> >>>
> >>>   :) Adam
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> > With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> > Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> > http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> > Mod...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
>

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Scott A. L. <sc...@sc...>]

Is the server down? I can't connect to anything at that URI.

-- Scott


Asynch Messaging wrote:
> Okay - I've updated the app to sort based on SalesRank. Still getting
> missing slots from Amazon.
> I show the up/down motion via a little graphic.
> Updated the background schedule for once a minute. We'll see if the server
> running that script pukes or if Amazon shuts me out.
> Also... Jeff said the URLs don't incorporate my affiliateID correctly - does
> anyone else have examples of this?
> 
> http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>
> To: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Asynch Messaging"
> <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera"
> <sc...@sc...>
> Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy
> Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"
> 
> 
> 
>>This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I have
> 
> done some regression tests against catalog data, running
> 
>>the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see changes in
> 
> sales rank within this time window.
> 
>>You do need to fix the URIs:
>>
>>
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W
> 7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
> 
>>05AUGP
>>
>>Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get credit for
> 
> purchases.
> 
>>For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales rank, and
> 
> then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
> 
>>the change?
>>
>>Jeff;
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
>>To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew
> 
> LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> 
>>Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy
> 
> Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> 
>>Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
>>Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> 
> Amazon"
> 
>>
>>>This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
>>>
>>>Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
>>>
>>>   :) Adam
>>
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility 
> Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
> 
> 

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Jeff B. <je...@ve...>]

Neat. This is RAD at its finest - concept to deployment in 24 hours.

1 - What do you mean by missing slots? The Salesrank is global (across all products) so you won't find a monotonically increasing
sequence within a single product line.

2 - To fix the URLs, simply pass _your_ associate ID in the "t=" parameter when you make the REST request to Amazon.

3 - Here's a simple test page that I use for experimentation:

    http://www.syndic8.com/~jeff/b.html

You can enter new values into the various fields at the top, watch the URL change, and then see the data returned from the call at
the bottom. Note that the Amazon REST interface allows for an XSLT transform on the output, and that you can select from some
predefined style sheets by using the Transformation dropdown.

4 - The Amazon server is not going to notice a once-per-minute hit. We ask developers to hit us no more than once per second, but we
don't enforce this (yet). We are processing about 5 million requests every day; a few more isn't going to make much of a difference.

Jeff;

----- Original Message -----
From: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>
To: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>; "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy Hui" <th...@Kn...>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


> Okay - I've updated the app to sort based on SalesRank. Still getting
> missing slots from Amazon.
> I show the up/down motion via a little graphic.
> Updated the background schedule for once a minute. We'll see if the server
> running that script pukes or if Amazon shuts me out.
> Also... Jeff said the URLs don't incorporate my affiliateID correctly - does
> anyone else have examples of this?
>
> http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>
> To: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Asynch Messaging"
> <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera"
> <sc...@sc...>
> Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy
> Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"
>
>
> > This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I have
> done some regression tests against catalog data, running
> > the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see changes in
> sales rank within this time window.
> >
> > You do need to fix the URIs:
> >
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W
> 7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
> > 05AUGP
> >
> > Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get credit for
> purchases.
> >
> > For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales rank, and
> then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
> > the change?
> >
> > Jeff;
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
> > To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew
> LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> > Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy
> Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> Amazon"
> >
> >
> > > This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
> > >
> > > Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
> > >
> > >    :) Adam
>

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Asynch M. <asy...@ho...>]

Okay - I've updated the app to sort based on SalesRank. Still getting
missing slots from Amazon.
I show the up/down motion via a little graphic.
Updated the background schedule for once a minute. We'll see if the server
running that script pukes or if Amazon shuts me out.
Also... Jeff said the URLs don't incorporate my affiliateID correctly - does
anyone else have examples of this?

http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Barr" <je...@ve...>
To: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>; "Asynch Messaging"
<asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera"
<sc...@sc...>
Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy
Hui" <th...@Kn...>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


> This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I have
done some regression tests against catalog data, running
> the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see changes in
sales rank within this time window.
>
> You do need to fix the URIs:
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W
7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
> 05AUGP
>
> Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get credit for
purchases.
>
> For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales rank, and
then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
> the change?
>
> Jeff;
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
> To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew
LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy
Hui" <th...@Kn...>
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
Amazon"
>
>
> > This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
> >
> > Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
> >
> >    :) Adam

[Mod-pubsub-developer] Re: The distinction between the two mod_pubsub mailing lists.

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

Ok, here's my proposal:

   1. mod-pubsub-developer is for anyone who is developing using =
mod_pubsub
      or is a developer on the project.

   2. mod-pubsub-general is for anyone who has a general interest
      and wants announcements and the occasional heads-up.



So, mod-pubsub-developer is, in general, the high volume list,

and mod-pubsub-general is, to developers, the low volume list.



If that sounds like reasonable haiku to you, say nothing.  :)



----
Ad...@Kn...


Another idea for mod_pubsub: real-time updates over at Weblogs.com.
From what I can tell, weblogs.com receives a ping when a weblog updates.
It must store that info in a database or text file and then whenever
the page loads, writes the list from that. Why not subscribe to its
own pings and write them as they come in? Seems totally doable to me. =
[09:31 AM]=20

  -- =
http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=3D2002_12_01_archive.inc#002348

[Mod-pubsub-developer] RE: [Mod-pubsub-general] running mod-pubsub under mod_perl

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

Kragen, nice work!  This helps me lots.  Now we just gotta figure out =
how to get push_manager (was: "ruth") working again...

   Adam


P.S. -- List management question: what's the difference between =
mod-pubsub-general and mod-pubsub-developer?  I had assumed that =
mod-pubsub-general was for general discussion (that is, non-techie) and =
mod-pubsub-developer was for technical discussions.  Does this model of =
list management need to be refined?



-----Original Message-----
From: Kragen Sitaker [mailto:kra...@ca...]
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:52 AM
To: mod...@li...
Subject: [Mod-pubsub-general] running mod-pubsub under mod_perl


Here's what I had to do to get mod_pubsub working under mod_perl,
which used to speed it up by about an order of magnitude.

1. install mod_perl
2. ensure it's loaded by Apache; in httpd.conf, something like:
    LoadModule perl_module /usr/lib/apache/1.3/mod_perl.so
3. ensure the kn_events dir is writable by the apache user; for me, this =
was
    sudo chown -R www-data kn_events
   Joyce reports that making kn_events recursively world-writable seems =
to work
   too, but I don't recommend that.

Some Apache setups might have to loosen up their AllowOverride
restrictions on .htaccess files to get things to work; as an
alternative, you can put the relevant bits from cgi-bin/.htaccess
(which handle *.cgi with Apache::Registry) into your httpd.conf.

So on my 300MHz laptop, pubsub_test.cgi now finishes in 104 seconds;
before, running as an actual CGI script, it took 278 seconds.  This
dramatically understates the speed improvement of pubsub.cgi, though;
it sleeps for 49 of those seconds, so it spends 53 seconds instead of
229 seconds doing things other than sleeping.  Not as big a speedup as
I'd hoped.

Another thing to note: with mod_perl, my CPU loads stayed relatively
low, while running mod_pubsub as a CGI script, my CPU load stayed at
100%.

The mail sensor and replay tests didn't work for me at first; I'd
copied the cgi-bin dir into my public_html dir, but I hadn't copied
the kn_sense directory, and those tests use programs in kn_sense.

Oh, and if you run out of disk space (easy to do --- each run of
pubsub_test.cgi chomps 11 megs on my ext3fs!) the test suite tends to
hang.  Dunno why that happens.

In Mozilla, kn_apps/ping2 reports an average ping time of 766 ms,
which seems outrageously horrible to me, and 13 Hz event throughput.
Without mod_perl, I get an average ping time of 1909 ms and 14.7 Hz
event throughput.

Ben suggested that maybe Mozilla's inherent slowness was causing the
slowdown, so I tried the test with Netscape 4.7.  Talking to the same
server (using mod_perl, of course) over 802.11b, it got 276ms and
38Hz.  Still seems slow to me.

We should probably fix Mozilla.

Hope this helps someone.

--=20
<kr...@po...>       Kragen Sitaker     =
<http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  The world has lost a great
man.  See http://advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=3D252 and
http://www.kode-fu.com/geek/2002_08_04_archive.shtml for details.


-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:
With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility=20
Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
http://hpc.devchannel.org/
_______________________________________________
Mod-pubsub-general mailing list
Mod...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-general

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Jeff B. <je...@ve...>]

This is awesome. Sales rank data actually changes very frequently. I have done some regression tests against catalog data, running
the old and new tests just minutes apart. I will frequently see changes in sales rank within this time window.

You do need to fix the URIs:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=webservices-20%26creative=D2W7SBNOI2U2ML%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2%26path=ASIN/B000
05AUGP

Change webservices-20 to your own associate id in order to get credit for purchases.

For extra sizzle, would it be possible to show old and new sales rank, and then indicate with an icon or a color the direction of
the change?

Jeff;

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
To: "Asynch Messaging" <asy...@ho...>; "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>; "Tommy Hui" <th...@Kn...>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


> This is a beautiful thing, Mike.
>
> Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?
>
>    :) Adam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Asynch Messaging [mailto:asy...@ho...]
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 8:52 PM
> To: Adam Rifkin; Scott Andrew LePera
> Cc: mod...@li...; me...@me...
> Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
> Amazon"
>
>
> I built a sample that periodically polls Amazon for the most popular books,
> music, movies, software and toys.
> It's not working completely... but its a start:
>
> http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/
>
> The data isn't sorted (darn those amazon folks) and I have to do 4 requests
> that get chunks of 10 entries, and I'm not seeing anything on toys or music
> and the numbers probably won't change that often and the 'add comment' has
> the wrong colors and so on...
>
> I'll try checking in some code to sourceforge later tonite
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
> To: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
> Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>
> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 9:13 AM
> Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"
>
>
> Number one, Meg I wish you were working at KnowNow still!  You are a font of
> great ideas!!!
>
> Number two, Scott this is a fantastic connection.  Please ask Mena and Ben
> to come play with us...
>
>   ;) Adam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Andrew LePera [mailto:sc...@sc...]
> Sent: Fri 12/13/2002 8:28 AM
> To: Adam Rifkin
> Cc: mod...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"
> Meg has more comments today:
>
> <http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=2002_12_01_archive.inc#002348>
>
> "Another idea for mod_pubsub: real-time updates over at Weblogs.com.
>  From what I can tell, weblogs.com receives a ping when a weblog
> updates. It must store that info in a database or text file and then
> whenever the page loads, writes the list from that. Why not subscribe to
> its own pings and write them as they come in? Seems totally doable to me."
>
> I had a similar idea yesterday: Movable Type's home page has a list of
> "recently updated weblogs" which works essentially in the same way as
> weblogs.com (MT users send a ping to Moveable Type's server when they
> update).
>
> It would probably be trivial for Mena and Ben to add a line of code that
> forwards that ping on to a public router (like Joyce's machine or one of
> the upcoming KN machines). Then we could build a demo similar to the one
> Ev came up with for Blogger. Maybe we should ask them to come play with us?
>
> -- Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:
> With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
> Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
> http://hpc.devchannel.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
> Mod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer
>

RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

This is a beautiful thing, Mike.

Now, how can we give it some extra sizzle?

   :) Adam


-----Original Message-----
From: Asynch Messaging [mailto:asy...@ho...]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 8:52 PM
To: Adam Rifkin; Scott Andrew LePera
Cc: mod...@li...; me...@me...
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable
Amazon"


I built a sample that periodically polls Amazon for the most popular =
books,
music, movies, software and toys.
It's not working completely... but its a start:

http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/

The data isn't sorted (darn those amazon folks) and I have to do 4 =
requests
that get chunks of 10 entries, and I'm not seeing anything on toys or =
music
and the numbers probably won't change that often and the 'add comment' =
has
the wrong colors and so on...

I'll try checking in some code to sourceforge later tonite

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
To: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable =
Amazon"


Number one, Meg I wish you were working at KnowNow still!  You are a =
font of
great ideas!!!

Number two, Scott this is a fantastic connection.  Please ask Mena and =
Ben
to come play with us...

  ;) Adam


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Andrew LePera [mailto:sc...@sc...]
Sent: Fri 12/13/2002 8:28 AM
To: Adam Rifkin
Cc: mod...@li...
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable =
Amazon"
Meg has more comments today:

<http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=3D2002_12_01_archive.inc#002348>=


"Another idea for mod_pubsub: real-time updates over at Weblogs.com.
 From what I can tell, weblogs.com receives a ping when a weblog
updates. It must store that info in a database or text file and then
whenever the page loads, writes the list from that. Why not subscribe to
its own pings and write them as they come in? Seems totally doable to =
me."

I had a similar idea yesterday: Movable Type's home page has a list of
"recently updated weblogs" which works essentially in the same way as
weblogs.com (MT users send a ping to Moveable Type's server when they
update).

It would probably be trivial for Mena and Ben to add a line of code that
forwards that ping on to a public router (like Joyce's machine or one of
the upcoming KN machines). Then we could build a demo similar to the one
Ev came up with for Blogger. Maybe we should ask them to come play with =
us?

-- Scott






-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:
With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
http://hpc.devchannel.org/
_______________________________________________
Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
Mod...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Asynch M. <asy...@ho...>]

I built a sample that periodically polls Amazon for the most popular books,
music, movies, software and toys.
It's not working completely... but its a start:

http://www.topiczero.com:8000/kn_apps/amazonpop/

The data isn't sorted (darn those amazon folks) and I have to do 4 requests
that get chunks of 10 entries, and I'm not seeing anything on toys or music
and the numbers probably won't change that often and the 'add comment' has
the wrong colors and so on...

I'll try checking in some code to sourceforge later tonite

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Rifkin" <Ad...@Kn...>
To: "Scott Andrew LePera" <sc...@sc...>
Cc: <mod...@li...>; <me...@me...>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"


Number one, Meg I wish you were working at KnowNow still!  You are a font of
great ideas!!!

Number two, Scott this is a fantastic connection.  Please ask Mena and Ben
to come play with us...

  ;) Adam


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Andrew LePera [mailto:sc...@sc...]
Sent: Fri 12/13/2002 8:28 AM
To: Adam Rifkin
Cc: mod...@li...
Subject: Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"
Meg has more comments today:

<http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=2002_12_01_archive.inc#002348>

"Another idea for mod_pubsub: real-time updates over at Weblogs.com.
 From what I can tell, weblogs.com receives a ping when a weblog
updates. It must store that info in a database or text file and then
whenever the page loads, writes the list from that. Why not subscribe to
its own pings and write them as they come in? Seems totally doable to me."

I had a similar idea yesterday: Movable Type's home page has a list of
"recently updated weblogs" which works essentially in the same way as
weblogs.com (MT users send a ping to Moveable Type's server when they
update).

It would probably be trivial for Mena and Ben to add a line of code that
forwards that ping on to a public router (like Joyce's machine or one of
the upcoming KN machines). Then we could build a demo similar to the one
Ev came up with for Blogger. Maybe we should ask them to come play with us?

-- Scott






-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:
With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility
Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel
http://hpc.devchannel.org/
_______________________________________________
Mod-pubsub-developer mailing list
Mod...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mod-pubsub-developer

RE: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

Number one, Meg I wish you were working at KnowNow still!  You are a =
font of great ideas!!!

Number two, Scott this is a fantastic connection.  Please ask Mena and =
Ben to come play with us...

  ;) Adam


-----Original Message-----
From:	Scott Andrew LePera [mailto:sc...@sc...]
Sent:	Fri 12/13/2002 8:28 AM
To:	Adam Rifkin
Cc:	mod...@li...
Subject:	Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable =
Amazon"
Meg has more comments today:

<http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=3D2002_12_01_archive.inc#002348>=


"Another idea for mod_pubsub: real-time updates over at Weblogs.com.=20
 From what I can tell, weblogs.com receives a ping when a weblog=20
updates. It must store that info in a database or text file and then=20
whenever the page loads, writes the list from that. Why not subscribe to =

its own pings and write them as they come in? Seems totally doable to =
me."

I had a similar idea yesterday: Movable Type's home page has a list of=20
"recently updated weblogs" which works essentially in the same way as=20
weblogs.com (MT users send a ping to Moveable Type's server when they=20
update).

It would probably be trivial for Mena and Ben to add a line of code that =

forwards that ping on to a public router (like Joyce's machine or one of =

the upcoming KN machines). Then we could build a demo similar to the one =

Ev came up with for Blogger. Maybe we should ask them to come play with =
us?

-- Scott

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Scott A. L. <sc...@sc...>]

Meg has more comments today:

<http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=2002_12_01_archive.inc#002348>

"Another idea for mod_pubsub: real-time updates over at Weblogs.com. 
 From what I can tell, weblogs.com receives a ping when a weblog 
updates. It must store that info in a database or text file and then 
whenever the page loads, writes the list from that. Why not subscribe to 
its own pings and write them as they come in? Seems totally doable to me."

I had a similar idea yesterday: Movable Type's home page has a list of 
"recently updated weblogs" which works essentially in the same way as 
weblogs.com (MT users send a ping to Moveable Type's server when they 
update).

It would probably be trivial for Mena and Ben to add a line of code that 
forwards that ping on to a public router (like Joyce's machine or one of 
the upcoming KN machines). Then we could build a demo similar to the one 
Ev came up with for Blogger. Maybe we should ask them to come play with us?

-- Scott

[Mod-pubsub-developer] mod_pubsub and John Beimler...

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

Hi John,

Thanks for the mention!  We'll be happy to answer any questions you have =
when/if you have time to try it out.

We'd like to think that our little project is good enough to criticize, =
but we'd love your opinion...

Cheers,
  ;) Adam



http://john.beimler.org/archives/000107.html#000107

December 11, 2002

Apache Publish and Subscribe

I'm not quite sure what to make of mod_pubsub =
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mod-pubsub>, other than its interesting =
and something to take a look at when I have time. I know that the =
publish/subscribe model made a big splash =
<http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/10/10/021010opwebserv.xml> =
when it was announced and demonstrated, but I haven't heard much since.

[Mod-pubsub-developer] Meg Hourihan: "mod_pubsub-enable Amazon"

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=3D2002_12_01_archive.inc#002341

I haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet, but KnowNow =
<http://www.knownow.com> (where I worked for a few months) has released =
under Apache-style license some of their technology =
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mod-pubsub>. Matt's got some thoughts =
<http://a.wholelottanothing.org/archived.blah/12/01/2002> about it.=20

A timely application I'd like to see with it is a page of Amazon's top =
selling items during this Christmas season, perhaps broken down in =
minute or 30-second segments. I.e. every thirty seconds, whatever sold =
the most items would appear on the page. I'm not sure whether this is =
possible b/c I haven't looked at what mod_pubsub actually does yet, and =
also because I doubt Amazon crunches and releases their data that =
quickly. I don't even know whether you can get the most popular items =
(updated hourly) via the Amazon API. But you get the idea. It could be a =
cool holiday gift tracker widget.

[Mod-pubsub-developer] Responses to the last few days of developer mailing list...

[Adam R. <Ad...@Kn...>]

Day: 34

# of developers: 10

# of users on this mailing list: 20

# of mailing list posts: 31

# of downloads: 62

# of applications checked in: 38

# of Web hits: 1463

Overall ranking: 5961 out of 52,503



Joyce wrote:
> Hi all, I've managed to get a public mod-pubsub server up at:
>=20
> http://mod-pubsub.thrillerguide.com
>=20
> Feel free to play on it, give demos, whatever.  Also note how slow it
> is.  This is a reasonable server at a decent data center with a fatty
> pipe, so I think with the current code (untuned) this is about as
> good as it gets.  JP

Thanks!  Which chat room in there should we use for real-time chat
among each other?



Elias wrote:
> Gah, deja vu! I've been thinking of starting a mod_pubsub project for =
a=20
> little while now but really had very little idea of where to start. =
The=20
> development of event notification for the web is a little daunting,=20
> given the strong oppinions that are out there about how it should be=20
> done. I just sent Adam an email asking to be added to the developers=20
> group on sourceforge... Very exciting!

Will do...



Tom wrote:
> The key thing is all the users would need to play is a browser that =
can
> deal with mod_pubsub.

Amen, brother, you're singing my Nep Tune.

I do have live web browser versions of Connect Four and Reversi that are
essentially hacked up from their originals from

   http://www.irt.org/games/

Should I clean those apps up and check those into the distribution as =
well?
They never worked quite right because Rohit took them 80% of the way =
there
and then lost interest.  Basically, they need some added start-game and
coordination work.



Mike wrote:
> So mod_pubsub isn't the center, its the in-between.

Very well stated.  We need to write up a philosophy page on the REST =
Wiki
or something...

mod_pubsub does not have any way to compute new state. It just transfers
the state to the listeners.



Derek wrote:
> Hi, heh, kinda like a high-school reunion (hi Kragen, Ben, Rohit, =
Adam!)
> or maybe like one of those 12-steps recovery groups ("and then they =
gave
> us $10 million ..."), anyway real nice to see you all again --

Nice to see you, too!

> Been doing some Jabber scripting lately, scenario's an in-browser =
MMPOLG
> w/ in-game JSRS-type chat, the Jabber-bot would allow out-of-game =
players
> to participate via IM clients (AIM, Yahoo, MSN etc.) by proxying =
messages
> to and from in-and-out-of-game players & groups ('chatrooms') through =
the
> J-bot. Before settlng on Jabber there'd been some speculation about =
maybe
> using KnowNow's pub-sub messaging framework for this ... then I saw =
Scott
> Andrew's heads-up fly-by a few weeks ago ... then my hard-drive died =
...
> anyway the Jabber stuff's cooking just fine, but there's still this =
open
> question about possibly integrating KN messaging w/ Jabber -- ???

No question.  It *can* be done, and it *will* be done.  It's just a =
question
of who has time to take this one first.

> Anyone have old ideas on Jabber/KN hybrids they'd care to dust off & =
take
> for a brisk morning trot?

Ask Rohit, he's always had a soft spot in his heart for Jabber.



Fred wrote:
> An example of what KN should be able to do.
>=20
> http://www4.passur.com/sjc.html
> Tracks all air traffic in near-realtime in the San Jose area. Appears=20
> to track anyone with a mode C transmitter, so you can watch your=20
> friends in the pattern at Reid-Hillview or PA.

Hey, cool find!

Completely off topic, how do we get an entry at http://www.advogato.org/ =
?



Fred wrote:
> [Live chess] requires an older version of the C Microserver (the one I
> wrote).  Don't know if we're going to get that source code.

You will, it's just a matter of time.  Product management at KnowNow has
been asking for libkn packaged as a Microserver SDK for at least 6 =
months;
we just gotta find some engineering cycles to package and release it.

Other things on the to-do list that folks on mod-pubsub-developer can do
if any of you have time:

   1. Make a PHP Microserver using SWIG creatively.
   2. Pull Phil Harris' Python Microserver into the distribution.
   3. Submit PubSub perl package to CPAN.
   4. PubSub-enable SOURCEFORGE so we can see stats as they happen =
instead
of (ugh) many days later.
   5. Demonstrate *asynchronous* XML-RPC.  (Woo hoo!)
   6. Invite folks from Pushlets, XMLBlaster, Jabber, or OpenThought =
projects.
   7. Anything on the TODO list:

   =
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mod-pubsub/mod_pubsub/TODO=



Here's that TODO list in the cvs repository in case you're too lazy to =
read it...

-------------------------------------
High-level items on the "to do" list.
-------------------------------------

 0. Instruct Apache to redirect /kn to pubsub.cgi .
 1. Create a mod_pubsub self-contained Apache module that
    subsumes the best practices of pubsub.cgi and pubsub.py .
 2. Create a php_pubsub client.
 3. Revamp RSS Support because kn_sense/rss is an awful hack.
    Use Jeff Barr's wonderful http://www.syndic8.com/ tools.
 4. Create a PubSub::Server.Pm and make pubsub.cgi a thin
    wrapper around it.  (Note: we have already merged "KNMS"
    into Client.pm .)  Part of this project may include making
    Tunnel.pm event-driven.
 5. Unify the Perl PubSub client and server and
    submit the PubSub perl package to CPAN.
 6. Import (and extend) Phil Harris' python pubsub client from
    http://cvs.developer.knownow.com/
 7. Clean up python_pubsub so it doesn't need to ship with
    all those other .py files.  (Ka-Ping Yee?  We wish...)
 8. Get push_manager working and clean up its directory.
 9. pubsub.cgi should be less lazy about detecting closed
    sessions.  Bring active presence detection to mod_pubsub.
10. While we're at it, clean up any broken and/or ugly kn_apps.
11. pubsub.js -- fix to deal with long lived IE6 sessions.
12. Build an Apache log sensor and use that to create a
    "webmaster's dashboard" application.
13. Get "Pocket NOC" application that monitors machines
    working to create a "sysadmin's dashboard" application.
14. Write a Jabber gateway using mod_pubsub.
15. Write an (all-DHTML) IM client application using mod_pubsub.
16. Get Pushlets working with mod_pubsub.
17. Import applications from http://cvs.developer.knownow.com/
18. Improve and extend pubsub_test.cgi .
19. Build performance testing tools.
20. Import Greg Burd's ruby pubsub client from
    http://cvs.developer.knownow.com/
    (Didn't think we were going to forget that one, did you? :)
21. Get working Fred Sanchez's chess application from
    http://cvs.developer.knownow.com/
22. Start a Wiki for this project.
    (?As part of the REST Wiki?  Talk with Mark Baker & Jeff Bone...)
23. In the kn_apps directory, unify kn_lib and jscomponents.





----
Ad...@Kn...


I'm glad to see KnowNow re-embracing open source by releasing
some of their application server technology. It appears to be
the same code that wowed people almost two years ago at the
first big KnowNow demo, and it's good to see the company get
back to its roots. Back when I was a part of the company, I
(and others on the web app team) sat in meeting after meeting
in total disbelief as plans were made to abandon all developer
relations, to stop being an open-source friendly outfit, and
instead become an enterprise software corporation. Why they
chose to abandon all the great buzz and community support they
had in March of 2001 just to try turning a big buck (instead of
free code, price tags in the tens of thousands were stuck to
everything) on unproven software should be a lesson for MBA
courses everywhere. Market buzz is about the best momentum you
can have in a new startup, and doing everything you can to kill
it is giving yourself the kiss of death.

Mark my works, once someone ports the code to an Apache module
you'll start seeing some wicked-cool applications using it.
Heck, I'd finally make the switch to Apache just to use it on
MetaFilter (real-time message counts/comment output/instant messaging).

   -- Matt Haughey, =
http://a.wholelottanothing.org/archived.blah/12/01/2002#1065


Bill Gates said the way to make money is by setting de facto=20
standards and implicit in this is to first create the standard in=20
such a way that it can become de facto.  The enterprise software=20
market works the other way, trying to trap customers and suck the=20
blood out of them.  I agree with the author.

   -- Robert X. Cringely, in response to the above passage

[Mod-pubsub-developer] New release 12-11

[Joyce P. <tru...@ya...>]

Hi guys, I made a new release today.  It has Mike's changes to
KnowBuddy and KnowNews.  JP

__________________________________________________
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[Mod-pubsub-developer] jabber?

[Derek R. <nn...@ya...>]

Hi, heh, kinda like a high-school reunion (hi Kragen, Ben, Rohit, Adam!)
or maybe like one of those 12-steps recovery groups ("and then they gave
us $10 million ..."), anyway real nice to see you all again --

Been doing some Jabber scripting lately, scenario's an in-browser MMPOLG
w/ in-game JSRS-type chat, the Jabber-bot would allow out-of-game players
to participate via IM clients (AIM, Yahoo, MSN etc.) by proxying messages
to and from in-and-out-of-game players & groups ('chatrooms') through the
J-bot. Before settlng on Jabber there'd been some speculation about maybe
using KnowNow's pub-sub messaging framework for this ... then I saw Scott
Andrew's heads-up fly-by a few weeks ago ... then my hard-drive died ...
anyway the Jabber stuff's cooking just fine, but there's still this open
question about possibly integrating KN messaging w/ Jabber -- ???

Anyone have old ideas on Jabber/KN hybrids they'd care to dust off & take
for a brisk morning trot?

-- Derek R., Vancouver


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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Intent to do damgage

[<wsa...@ws...>]

On Tuesday, December 10, 2002, at 02:20  PM, Asynch Messaging wrote:

>> Enough of my ramblings, somtimes between now and next year I should 
>> find
>> time between diapy changes to install and start testing out ideas. Any
>> thoughts on the matter would be happily used and appreciated.
>
> When you use mod_pubsub (or any pub/sub messaging) it's better to think
> about each participant having the state rather than a single server.
> Although mod_pubsub will hold onto the events for as long as you want
> (essentially making them permanent 'resources' - think of a config 
> file that
> you subscribe to & you always get notified if it changes) it's more 
> meant to
> distribute state changes in order to synchronize state across machines.

   Ya.  I wrote the beginning of a pub/sub Chess game server for KN a 
while ago:

	http://cvs.developer.knownow.com/index.cgi/Applications/Gateways/chess/

   It requires an older version of the C Microserver (the one I wrote, 
san the perverse "beautification" of the API that followed).  Don't 
know if we're going to get that source code.

   Anyway, the way it worked is the server was a KN client which could 
talk to a CECP chess engine (I used crafty, another is GNU chess).  A 
client could send moves to a "white" topic on the KN server, then the 
chess server would see the move.  It would pass it along to chess 
engine.  If the move was valid, it gets posted to the "moves" topic.  
If not, an error gets posted to "white".  The engine then makes its 
move, which also gets posted to "moves", etc.

   The idea is that if we ever get ACLs for topics, you can limit posts 
to "white" to the client and the chess server, and post to "moves" are 
limited to the chess server.  Anyone would be able to subscribe to 
"moves", which allows them to watch the game.

   Two players would add a "black" topic that only a second client can 
post to, and the chess engine would serve to verify the validity of 
moves, but obviously won't make its own moves.

   The game was intended to illustrate a couple of techniques:

	- creating a reasonable topic schema for an application
	- ansyncronous activity in a single threaded C app
	  (it has to listen to the chess engine and to KN events)

	-wsv

[Mod-pubsub-developer] FYI

[<wsa...@ap...>]

   An example of what KN should be able to do.

	-wsv


http://www4.passur.com/sjc.html
Tracks all air traffic in near-realtime in the San Jose area. Appears 
to track anyone with a mode C transmitter, so you can watch your 
friends in the pattern at Reid-Hillview or PA.

Re: [Mod-pubsub-developer] Intent to do damgage

[Asynch M. <asy...@ho...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <tom...@sl...>

>
> mod_subpub is the layer which gathers the various player states and
> reports back the new states/state changes..
No... mod_pubsub does not have any way to comput new state. It just
transfers the state to the listeners.
If you want private state, with a master control program computing new
global state, you can also do that - each participant reads/writes to their
own space of resources, the mcp listens then computes and updates each
players resource space (who then get instantly notified). If there is a
resource that is logically shared (maybe read-only, like the weather) then
you can bypass the mcp and just have every one listen to the weather (and
have a bot algorithmically change the weather - perhaps influenced by
spells... )