mobius-development — List for general Möbius application and driver development

Re: [mobius-development] ATTN Tim; Mobius image testing

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 13:57:18 +0000
Francis Rounds <Fr...@ro...> wrote:
> I have tested out the 'mobius-mini-20030115.img.gz' and 
> 'mobius-mini-20030308.img.gz' images on the bare hardware of my PC. 
> Whilst both of them loaded up to the red 40x25 command shell, typing of 
> any sort did not advance the cursor nor place characters on the screen. 
> Perhaps it's due to my USB keyboard (yes, I have legacy support switched 
> on in the BIOS)?

Thanks for that: this is both good (that Mobius boots on another machine)
and bad (that I still can't reproduce the bug which stops some people
booting).

The USB keyboard thing is something I hadn't really considered before.
You'd think that legacy support would make it work; however, it depends
whether the emulation is perfomed at the chipset level or on the INT 16h
level. Hmm.

-- 
Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>

[mobius-development] ATTN Tim; Mobius image testing

[Francis R. <Fr...@ro...>]

Greetings,

I have tested out the 'mobius-mini-20030115.img.gz' and 
'mobius-mini-20030308.img.gz' images on the bare hardware of my PC. 
Whilst both of them loaded up to the red 40x25 command shell, typing of 
any sort did not advance the cursor nor place characters on the screen. 
Perhaps it's due to my USB keyboard (yes, I have legacy support switched 
on in the BIOS)?

So, in summary: It works. Sort of. :)

Yours,
Francis Rounds

Re: [mobius-development] Reorganised Mobius source tree

[Tim R. <tim...@pr...>]

On 19 Dec 2002 at 1:13, Tim Robinson wrote:
> I've started to reorganise the Mobius source tree. The efforts so far
> are at http://box.themobius.co.uk/mobius/. I'd appreciate it if you
> could download mobius-coreos-include-lib.zip and see if it builds
> as-is.

I tried these sources on a fresh Cygwin install on a different machine, and I got it to 
build.

I had to download the following files from www.cygwin.com:

Cygwin packages:
	base-files-1.1-1.tar.bz2
	bash-2.05b-8.tar.bz2
	binutils-20021117-1.tar.bz2
	cygwin-1.3.17-1.tar.bz2
	fileutils-4.1-1.tar.bz2
	-- gcc2-2.95.3-10.tar.bz2 (not tried GCC 3 yet)
	libiconv-1.8-2.tar.bz2
	libiconv2-1.8-2.tar.bz2
	libintl-0.10.38-3.tar.bz2
	libintl2-0.11.5-1.tar.bz2
	make-3.79.1-7.tar.bz2
	textutils-2.0.21-1.tar.bz2
	-- libintl1, but I got everything to build by copying /bin/cygintl-2.dll to /bin/cygintl-
1.dll (cat needs cygintl-1.dll)

Others:
	NASM, from http://sourceforge.net/projects/nasm/

I also had to copy /bin/bash.exe to /bin/sh.exe: the Cygwin install program didn't do this 
for me, and make looks for /bin/sh instead of /bin/bash. Everything looks to be in order, 
although I have yet to re-download Bochs to try it out.

-- 
Tim Robinson
Systems Engineer, Primary Image
tim...@pr...

==================================================
Primary Image / PI-Vision
UK tel 020 8339 9669 (fax 020 8339 9091)
USA tel 407 540 1252 (fax 407 540 1198)

The information contained in this email or any of its attachments 
is confidential and is intended for the use of the addressee only. 
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[mobius-development] Reorganised Mobius source tree

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

Hi all,

I was talking to Francis and Revanth (who joined the project recently) on
#mobius the other night about getting the Mobius sources to build
outside of my computer. Most people who've tried have come up with
errors.

I've started to reorganise the Mobius source tree. The efforts so far
are at http://box.themobius.co.uk/mobius/. I'd appreciate it if you
could download mobius-coreos-include-lib.zip and see if it builds as-is.

Some hints:
1) Check the ROOT= lines in coreos/make.conf and
coreos/drivers/make.driver. They are currently set up for my machine.
2) When running make, redirect stdout and stderr to different files. On
Windows 2000 it looks like this:
	cd /the_mobius_root/coreos
	make 1> make.log 2> make.err
If you come across any errors, could you send me the make.log and
make.err files, so I can see what's going on? Thanks.
3) Ignore any errors about not finding .d files. This is normal and they
are created from the source automatically.

My plans for the source code directory structure are:

coreos - Files for building the core OS (kernel and libraries)
distrib - Directory where binaries go as they are built
doc - Random documentation
experimental - Experimental stuff (e.g. GUI) which shouldn't go in the
main source tree
include - Header files required to build both the OS and user programs
lib - Library files required to build both the OS and user programs
old - Old stuff which we don't use for now
web - Web site source

Each of these top-level directories will end up as top-level modules in
the CVS.

The SDKs will consist of the distrib, include and lib directories, on
the basis that people don't need to rebuild the entire OS just to write
user programs. I'm not sure what will happen to documentation yet.

Thank you all for your help with this; it's much appreciated.

Tim

-- 
Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>

Re: [mobius-development] Yet more questions...sorry :)

[Tim R. <tim...@pr...>]

On 10 Dec 2002 at 18:13, Francis David Rounds wrote:
> 1) Welcome back Tim! I saw your post on alt.os.development, and all I
> can say is...you lucky bugger! :) (For those who don't know what I'm
> on about, a certain someone just managed to get the all-elusive
> broadband).  So does this mean we'll see more Mobius hd images
> uploaded so those who can't get the source to compile can still try it
> out? ;)

Sure :). But I don't want to start releasing images that only half work. I can certainly 
release a new hard disk image after adding and testing a new feature.

> 2) Well, I've been giving the Mobius a break for a while, then came
> back to it again the other day. I digged out my trusty Cygwin
> installation, grabbed the latest cvs sources of 'mn' and tried
> compiling again. I've tried everything, from tweaking the makefiles to
> voodoo magic :) and it still doesn't work :(. WARNING! Favour request:
> could someone tell me *exactly* (version numbers, too) which Cygwin
> packages they have installed, what they tweak in the sources &/or
> makefiles to get it to compile...just about everything that they do to
> get it to compile. I'm getting desperate here. Then again, if no one
> wants to, then fair enough. A hd image uploaded every 2 weeks (or when
> a major change takes place) would be *extremely* useful... ;)

This is getting silly. It seems like nobody except me can build the Mobius sources. The 
tool dependencies aren't too great (a working copy of Cygwin gcc/binutils and NASM 
will suffice), so there's clearly something wrong with the makefiles I've got set up.

It would be a good idea for someone to volunteer to take the source files and set up a 
new build process that worked everywhere.

> 3) Right, time for me to at least try to earn my keep. I think I'm
> going to have a go at porting some programs to Mobius, and also to
> create some new ones. Nothing fancy, just more-or-less essential stuff
> that one would use from day to day, really. This is where the hd image
> comes into play again. A hd image that is up to date with the latest
> cvs sources and a SDK uploaded at about the same time would be very
> very useful, and would allow me to start getting to work. Failing
> that, if anyone could help me compile the Mobius (read the above; I'm
> no newbie at compiling, but I honestly don't know why this isn't
> working :() then I'd be greatly grateful :).

Right; as long as you can build apps using the SDK, and run them on the HD image, 
building the core OS shouldn't be necessary. Part of the idea behind the SDK is to 
distribute new copies of the kernel and DLLs without putting out a new HD image, the 
intention being that you can copy the core files onto your own image using mtools or 
Winimage. Also, I've been updating the SDK more often than I've been uploading disk 
images (there haven't been any SDK updates for a while because I haven't put any 
code in for a while).

> 4) Tim (or anyone else who has a big say as to what happens to this
> project), would it be better for existing libraries and APIs and such
> to be ported to the Mobius (Allegro (that'd be a toughie), ncurses
> etc. perhaps) or would it be better for new libs and APIs to be
> designed from the ground up? I suggest the former, but maybe there's a
> good reason to *not* do that, I don't know.

I think a Posix library would be a good pre-requisite...

> 5) Hmm...if/when Mobius reaches the lofty heights of POSIX compliancy
> (is that a goal, or is it just too *NIXy and unnecessary?) and/or
> implements the entire ANSI C library (I'm not sure if you've already
> done this or not) it would be really easy to port applications, would
> it not? I mean, all that would be needed is a recompile, and there'd
> be a massive selection of software already available...then I'd be out
> of that job :)

...for porting other libraries. A lot of these Unix libraries depend on Posix functions and 
behaviour and not much else, so a good Posix layer would be an excellent starting 
point. I'm not a great fan of Unix, but if Posix is good enough for BeOS and Windows 
NT, then it's good enough for me. :)

> Whew, been some time since I made a long message like that thar one
> there. Heh, even though I'm giving OS dev a rest, the Mobius is still
> one of my primary projects and I can't wait for any more exciting
> developments. Anyway, I hope you're all well, and that life and coding
> is going well in general for you lot.

Great to hear!

Things I've been doing recently:
- Playing with some GUI prototypes. I started writing a client/server based GUI (with a 
window server in a separate process) but I was having trouble debugging it under 
native Mobius -- I didn't have a serial cable and it's hard to use printf() under graphics 
mode. So I wrote some small Win32 functions that emulated a Mobius environment 
and I've been debugging that under Windows. I haven't tried the code under Mobius 
yet, though, so who knows...

- Thinking about networking. Actually, thinking about thinking about networking. I'm still 
not sure how it will look yet -- probably something like BSD Sockets at the API end, 
and a two-tier transport/adaptor driver setup in the kernel. Not sure what it will look like 
in between, though.

We could have a set of functions like this, analogous to the socket() etc. set of 
functions:
	// create a socket bound to the TCP/IP protocol
	handle = NetCreate(NET_PROTO_TCPIP);
	// look up the host, e.g. using DNS
	address = NetLookupHost(handle, "hostname");
	// connect to the host
	NetConnect(handle, address, port);
	// write some bytes
	FsWrite(handle, "hello\n", 6);
	// close the connection to the host
	NetDisconnect(handle);
	// close the socket
	HndClose(handle);

On the server side:

	handle = NetCreate(NET_PROTO_TCPIP);
	while (NetListen(handle) && !need_to_exit)
	{
		client = NetAccept(handle);
		ThrCreateThread(client_thread, (void*) client);
	}
	NetClose(handle);

NetLookupHost would return a variable-length structure containing an address in a 
format convenient to... what? The protocol (e.g. an IP address)? The adaptor (e.g. a 
MAC address)? Probably a protocol address; I think that an adaptor should be chosen 
when you ask to connect. The problem here is: what do you do given multiple 
adaptors, each of which can run the same protocol (e.g. a network card and a 
modem)? Clearly each adaptor will be able to address a different set of hosts, so we 
need to be able to say, "this card can handle addresses that look like this".

-- 
Tim Robinson
Systems Engineer, Primary Image
tim...@pr...

==================================================
Primary Image / PI-Vision
UK tel 020 8339 9669 (fax 020 8339 9091)
USA tel 407 540 1252 (fax 407 540 1198)

The information contained in this email or any of its attachments 
is confidential and is intended for the use of the addressee only. 
Opinions expressed in this email may not be those of Primary 
Image or PI-Vision,  but the personal views of the originator. If you 
are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution 
or other dissemination or use of this email is strictly prohibited. 
If you have received this message in error, please contact : 
pos...@pr... and delete this message.
==================================================

[mobius-development] Yet more questions...sorry :)

[Francis D. R. <Fr...@ro...>]

Hi again everyone,

Sorry I haven't been posting much for the last couple of months -- 
school etc. is catching up with me I'm afraid. Anyway, I've got a couple 
of questions/things to say (hence the title):

1) Welcome back Tim! I saw your post on alt.os.development, and all I 
can say is...you lucky bugger! :) (For those who don't know what I'm on 
about, a certain someone just managed to get the all-elusive 
broadband).  So does this mean we'll see more Mobius hd images uploaded 
so those who can't get the source to compile can still try it out? ;)

2) Well, I've been giving the Mobius a break for a while, then came back 
to it again the other day. I digged out my trusty Cygwin installation, 
grabbed the latest cvs sources of 'mn' and tried compiling again. I've 
tried everything, from tweaking the makefiles to voodoo magic :) and it 
still doesn't work :(. WARNING! Favour request: could someone tell me 
*exactly* (version numbers, too) which Cygwin packages they have 
installed, what they tweak in the sources &/or makefiles to get it to 
compile...just about everything that they do to get it to compile. I'm 
getting desperate here. Then again, if no one wants to, then fair 
enough. A hd image uploaded every 2 weeks (or when a major change takes 
place) would be *extremely* useful... ;)

3) Right, time for me to at least try to earn my keep. I think I'm going 
to have a go at porting some programs to Mobius, and also to create some 
new ones. Nothing fancy, just more-or-less essential stuff that one 
would use from day to day, really. This is where the hd image comes into 
play again. A hd image that is up to date with the latest cvs sources 
and a SDK uploaded at about the same time would be very very useful, and 
would allow me to start getting to work. Failing that, if anyone could 
help me compile the Mobius (read the above; I'm no newbie at compiling, 
but I honestly don't know why this isn't working :() then I'd be greatly 
grateful :).

4) Tim (or anyone else who has a big say as to what happens to this 
project), would it be better for existing libraries and APIs and such to 
be ported to the Mobius (Allegro (that'd be a toughie), ncurses etc. 
perhaps) or would it be better for new libs and APIs to be designed from 
the ground up? I suggest the former, but maybe there's a good reason to 
*not* do that, I don't know.

5) Hmm...if/when Mobius reaches the lofty heights of POSIX compliancy 
(is that a goal, or is it just too *NIXy and unnecessary?) and/or 
implements the entire ANSI C library (I'm not sure if you've already 
done this or not) it would be really easy to port applications, would it 
not? I mean, all that would be needed is a recompile, and there'd be a 
massive selection of software already available...then I'd be out of 
that job :)

Whew, been some time since I made a long message like that thar one 
there. Heh, even though I'm giving OS dev a rest, the Mobius is still 
one of my primary projects and I can't wait for any more exciting 
developments. Anyway, I hope you're all well, and that life and coding 
is going well in general for you lot.

Francis Rounds

[mobius-development] Mtools for Win32

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

Hi all,

I've just released a zip file containing a working version of mtools for
Win32 on the Mobius project page at SourceForge
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/mobius/). If you install this, you
should be able to modify the FAT disk images that Mobius uses. Some
instructions are provided in the zip.

PS: www.themoebius.org.uk is down at the moment, although
www.themobius.co.uk and mobius.sourceforge.net are still working.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>

[mobius-development] Re: questions... contd.. :))

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

On 21 Aug 2002 02:53:05 -0000
"OSDEV  FANATIC" <os_...@re...> wrote:
|    2. I hope when you reply to this I should be able to compile 
| properly... now the question is how can I test Mobius on another 
| machine...? ie... what files/images should I create and how, and 
| at what sectors do I copy them etc... does the makefile in /bin 
| accomplish this?
| 
|    3. along the same lines, how do I test this in BOCHS? how can i 
| create an image file...?

I've created a page of instructions on how to boot Mobius under various
configurations: see http://www.themoebius.org.uk/documentation/?boot

-- 
Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>

[mobius-development] interesting article on network subsystem

[prakash s. <hel...@ho...>]

http://www.cs.rice.edu/CS/Systems/LRP/final.html




>From: "prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...>
>To: ti...@ga..., mob...@li...
>Subject: Re: [mobius-development] CVS update
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:16:30 +0530
>
>Hi Tim,
>    I tried installing the mtools downloaded from the url that you provided 
>but with not much success. Could you please provide me with the mtools that 
>you have. Basically I need to boot into Mobius thru a floppy( have a boot 
>floppy to load the mobius kernel ).
>    I was able to compile the kernel and some of the drivers properly 
>though few of the drivers are still throwing up a compiler error..
>
>Thanks
>Prakash S
>
>
>>From: Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>
>>To: mob...@li...
>>Subject: Re: [mobius-development] CVS update
>>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:25:43 +0100
>>
>>On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:32:51 +0530
>>"prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...> wrote:
>>|     I have been trying to install the mtools for my cygwin but was
>>| unsuccessful. I tried mtools from mtools.linux.lu but was not able to
>>| successfully compile and install. I tried using the mtools for windows 
>>but
>>| was of not much use. Could you please update me where to download mtools 
>>for
>>| cygwin from.
>>
>>Here's the link I found on the Bochs page:
>>
>>	http://kos.enix.org/~d2/mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar.gz
>>
>>If that doesn't work I could send you the copy of mtools.exe I've been
>>using.
>>
>>--
>>Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
>>cell phone?  Get a new here for FREE!
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>>_______________________________________________
>>mobius-development mailing list
>>mob...@li...
>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mobius-development
>
>
>
>
>Luv
>Prakash S
>
>Success is neither magical nor mysterious.
>Success is the natural consequence of consistently applying basic 
>fundamentals.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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>cell phone?  Get a new here for FREE!
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Luv
Prakash S

Success is neither magical nor mysterious.
Success is the natural consequence of consistently applying basic 
fundamentals.


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Re: [mobius-development] CVS update

[prakash s. <hel...@ho...>]

Hi Tim,
    I tried installing the mtools downloaded from the url that you provided 
but with not much success. Could you please provide me with the mtools that 
you have. Basically I need to boot into Mobius thru a floppy( have a boot 
floppy to load the mobius kernel ).
    I was able to compile the kernel and some of the drivers properly though 
few of the drivers are still throwing up a compiler error..

Thanks
Prakash S


>From: Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>
>To: mob...@li...
>Subject: Re: [mobius-development] CVS update
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:25:43 +0100
>
>On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:32:51 +0530
>"prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...> wrote:
>|     I have been trying to install the mtools for my cygwin but was
>| unsuccessful. I tried mtools from mtools.linux.lu but was not able to
>| successfully compile and install. I tried using the mtools for windows 
>but
>| was of not much use. Could you please update me where to download mtools 
>for
>| cygwin from.
>
>Here's the link I found on the Bochs page:
>
>	http://kos.enix.org/~d2/mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar.gz
>
>If that doesn't work I could send you the copy of mtools.exe I've been
>using.
>
>--
>Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
>cell phone?  Get a new here for FREE!
>https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390
>_______________________________________________
>mobius-development mailing list
>mob...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mobius-development




Luv
Prakash S

Success is neither magical nor mysterious.
Success is the natural consequence of consistently applying basic 
fundamentals.


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Re: [mobius-development] CVS update

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:43:44 +0530
"prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...> wrote:
| I actually want to have mobius OS in a floppy . I do not have a test syst=
em=20
| that I can dedicate to mobius. So I want to boot into mobius through a=20
| floppy.

Then it should be enough to prepare a FAT-formatted floppy disk with
GRUB on it. What you need to do is:

1) Get a copy of the GRUB binaries from, say,
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
2) Copy stage1 onto the boot sector (sector 0) of a blank floppy disk
using, say, dd
3) Copy stage2 onto sector 1 of the same disk
4) Format another disk as FAT (ext2 works as well
5) Copy stage1 and stage2 (and, optionally, menu.lst) onto the FAT disk
as files
6) Boot from the first disk; the GRUB command line will appear
7) Swap disks; put the second disk in the drive
8) Type the following command:

install (fd0)/stage1 (fd0) (fd0)/stage2 (fd0)/menu.lst

(There is a better GRUB tutorial at http://osdev.berlios.de/grub.html.)

This installs the stage1 and stage2 loaders onto the second disk using
menu.lst as the menu which will be used. I don't think menu.lst needs to
be there at the time; if it's not present at boot time you'll get the
GRUB command line. You might want to mark the stage2 file as system,
hidden and read-only, since the only way the boot sector has of finding
it is through a block list (if the stage2 file moves the block list
doesn't get updated). You can delete stage1 from the disk, however.

9) Now the second disk will be a FAT-formatted disk which will boot GRUB.

To boot M=F6bius from that disk:
1) Copy kernel.exe, system.pro and any drivers that system.pro
references onto the disk
2) Add entries in menu.lst for the files you just copied; for example:

default 0
timeout 5

title The M=F6bius
kernel /kernel.exe
module /system.pro
module /keyboard.drv
module /tty.drv
module /fdc.drv
module /fat.drv
module /shell.exe
module /libc.dll
module /libsys.dll

3) Modify system.pro so that the file systems you want mounted get
mounted; for example:

key Devices
    0=3Ddevice,tty,tty0
    1=3Ddevice,tty,tty1
    2=3Ddevice,keyboard,keyboard
    3=3Ddevice,fdc,fdc0
    4=3Dmount,fat,/floppy,fdc0
end

Shell=3D/System/Boot/shell.exe

There are working menu.lst and system.pro files in the CVS you can
modify. I've tried the ones I've listed here and they seem to work fine.

Support for floppy disks is a bit ropey: the file system drivers don't
know when you change disks, so they cache the old data even though a
different disk is in the drive.

Once you know that all this is working, you might want to install the
Mobius files onto a directory on your hard disk and boot from there.
Doing that should just be a matter of keeping just menu.lst on the
floppy disk and changing the path names to refer to the hard disk.

--=20
Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>

Re: [mobius-development] CVS update

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:32:51 +0530
"prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...> wrote:
|     I have been trying to install the mtools for my cygwin but was 
| unsuccessful. I tried mtools from mtools.linux.lu but was not able to 
| successfully compile and install. I tried using the mtools for windows but 
| was of not much use. Could you please update me where to download mtools for 
| cygwin from.

Here's the link I found on the Bochs page:

	http://kos.enix.org/~d2/mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar.gz

If that doesn't work I could send you the copy of mtools.exe I've been
using.

-- 
Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>

Re: [mobius-development] CVS update

[prakash s. <hel...@ho...>]

Any mails from me to the list is bouncing back :-/....

Addition to my previous mail....


I actually want to have mobius OS in a floppy . I do not have a test system 
that I can dedicate to mobius. So I want to boot into mobius through a 
floppy.

Prakash S

>From: Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...>
>To: mob...@li...
>Subject: [mobius-development] CVS update
>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:04:31 +0100
>
>Hi all,
>
>I spent a couple of hours tonight cleaning up the Mobius CVS repository.
>I am pleased to say that it's almost all working as I want it to; there
>are some sources available now (e.g. the ATA driver) which I couldn't
>commit for ages. As I send this email, what's on the CVS server is
>(should be) what I see on my hard disk here.
>
>I suggest you do a "cvs update -d" to make sure you've got the latest
>versions of everything.
>
>Regards,
>Tim
>
>--
>Tim Robinson <tim...@ic...>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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Luv
Prakash S

Success is neither magical nor mysterious.
Success is the natural consequence of consistently applying basic 
fundamentals.


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[mobius-development] CVS update

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

Hi all,

I spent a couple of hours tonight cleaning up the Mobius CVS repository.
I am pleased to say that it's almost all working as I want it to; there
are some sources available now (e.g. the ATA driver) which I couldn't
commit for ages. As I send this email, what's on the CVS server is
(should be) what I see on my hard disk here.

I suggest you do a "cvs update -d" to make sure you've got the latest
versions of everything.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
Tim Robinson <tim...@ic...>

Re: [mobius-development] Networking

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:47:44 +0530
"prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...> wrote:
|    Have you checked in the code to the CVS ? I am not able to find any code 
| related to networking !!!

No, I haven't checked the networking code into the CVS yet, because I
try not to check code into CVS until I'm satisfied it's working properly
(or, at least not fundamentally broken). I'll hack at the network code a
bit longer, then I'll commit it. I think in the long term we need a
proper protocol stack -- at the moment all the networking code is a
loose connection of functions in the RTL8139 driver binary.

Some initial thoughts on the network stack:
Make it analogous to the file system model. We have file system drivers
layered on top of storage device drivers, with one FSD per volume
(storage device). FSDs are separate from the hardware driver and
communicate between the VFS and the hardware with standard interfaces.

Now imagine networking: replace 'file system driver' with 'protocol
drivers' and 'storage device' with 'network device'. There could be
several network devices (e.g. Ethernet card and PPP connection), and
several protocols (e.g. TCP/IP and NetBIOS). Each network device can
have several protocols bound to it, and not necessarily the full set
(e.g. you might use NetBIOS on your LAN to talk to a Windows 95 machine,
but only TCP/IP on the Internet connection). So the same pieces of
protocol code need to talk to a set of network devices.

             /-- Protocol --\
User mode --+--- Protocol ---+-+-- Device
             \-- Protocol --/   \- Device

Network device drivers can be simple pieces of code, which are
responsible for sending and receiving packets over their physical link.

Protocols might maintain two sets of data: global and per-device. Taking
the example of TCP/IP, global data can be IP address routing tables,
whereas per-device data can be the IP address assigned to each card.

| I have more dbts comming my way will send a seperate detailed mail
| regarding the same

Sure, keep 'em coming! :)

-- 
Tim Robinson <tim...@ic...>

[mobius-development] Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)

[prakash s. <hel...@ho...>]

>From: pos...@ma...
>To: hel...@ho...
>Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:17:50 -0700
>
>This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
>
>Delivery to the following recipients failed.
>
>        mob...@li...
>
>
>




Luv
Prakash S

Success is neither magical nor mysterious.
Success is the natural consequence of consistently applying basic 
fundamentals.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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Re: [mobius-development] Networking

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
S K Rahman <ja...@ya...> wrote:
| That was very nice and fast I longed for it. Well you
| will be hearing from me soon for other part of
| development (VESA and Other GUI part and other
| internals  ) 

Excellent -- I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

| BTW I was just wondering with the current bash shell
| how is the signal handling is supposed to be done (
| Coz at this time we are having on some supplmenty
| Posix function, right )

There's no signals yet, or anything similar. User mode needs some kind
of exception handling: a way of the kernel redirection to a handler
routine in the event of an exception. C99 needs signals too, as well as
Posix.

-- 
Tim Robinson <tim...@ic...>

Re: [mobius-development] Networking

[S K R. <ja...@ya...>]

--- Tim Robinson <ti...@ga...> wrote:
> Hey all,

> I swapped my RTL8139 card from my main machine into
> my test machine and
> wrote a driver for it. After a bit of hacking with
> ARP, IP and ICMP (and
> a steep learning curve), it's now possible to ping
> in either direction
> -- although the Mobius host dies if the ping packet
> is fragmented (i.e.
> if you set the size too big).
> 
> [H:\unix\mn\src\drivers\rtl8139] ping 192.168.0.200
> -t
> 
> Pinging 192.168.0.200 with 32 bytes of data:
> 

That was very nice and fast I longed for it. Well you
will be hearing from me soon for other part of
development (VESA and Other GUI part and other
internals  ) 

BTW I was just wondering with the current bash shell
how is the signal handling is supposed to be done (
Coz at this time we are having on some supplmenty
Posix function, right )



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Re: [mobius-development] Networking

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

[Grr... should have hit 'Reply To All']

On Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:10:27 +0530
"prakash saivasan" <hel...@ho...> wrote:
|     That was very fast :)... I was just going thru the Mobius OS. I have 
| some doubts regarding the internals.
| 1) We dont support any kind of bottom half and top half ( during Interrupt 
| processing) am I right ?

There is a bit of bottom half support. You can queue an Asynchronous
Procedure Call in a particular thread using the ThrQueueKernelApc
function (void ThrQueueKernelApc(thread_t *thr, void (*fn)(void*), void
*param);). This will cause the thread to be scheduled next time the
scheduler runs, if necessary, and your routine will be called before the
thread returns to user mode. Although interrupts aren't currently
enabled during the execution of an APC routine, they ought to be.

Alternatively, you could start a kernel thread in the system process
(ThrCreateThread(NULL, etc.)) to do the processing. These threads are
scheduled just like user threads, except that they run in kernel mode.

| 2) How much of DMA support do we have in Mobius ( API kind)?

Currently, there's nothing specific to DMA, although it's possible to
allocate a contiguous block of physical memory (addr_t MemAllocLowSpan
(size_t pages);). For example, the floppy driver talks to the ISA DMA
controller directly but it gets its memory from MemAllocLowSpan. To free
that memory, call MemFreeLow for each page in the block.

| 3) would like to know more about how to implement a system call in Mobius 
| !!!

To add one permanently:
1) Add a system call ID #define to the relevant section at the top of
include/os/sysdef.h. There are several groups of system calls defined
already, or you could start your own if need be.
2) Lower down in sysdef.h, add your system call prototype. This should
look like:

	SYSCALL(return_type, name, params_size, (int param1, int
param2));

where:
-- return_type and name are the return type and name of the function
which implements the system call
-- params_size is the size, in bytes, of the parameters (usually
4*number, although uint64_t takes up 8 bytes)
-- the bit between the brackets is the full parameter list for the
function, or (void) for none

This macro gets expanded to give:
-- function prototype for include/os/syscall.h, for both user and kernel
modes
-- entry in the system call dispatcher table (see
src/kernel/i386/scdsptch.c)
-- user-mode stub function assembly code for src/libsys/syscall.S

3) Add the name of your function to the kernel export list in
src/kernel/kernel.def
4) Add the name of your function to the libsys export list in
src/libsys/libsys.def
5) Implement the function anywhere in the kernel. Misc. syscalls go in
syscall.c, although most groups of functions have their own file.

If the system call has a different prototype in user and kernel modes 
(e.g. ThrSleep is void ThrSleep(unsigned) in user mode and void
ThrSleep(thread_t*, unsigned) in kernel mode), see the note at the top
of sysdef.h.

To add one temporarily, (e.g. to hook another system call inside a
driver), use the KeSetSysCall and KeGetSysCall functions.

-- 
Tim Robinson <tim...@ic...>

[mobius-development] Networking

[Tim R. <ti...@ga...>]

Hey all,

Here's a first: networking for The Mobius. Pinging a Mobius machine now
works! :D

I swapped my RTL8139 card from my main machine into my test machine and
wrote a driver for it. After a bit of hacking with ARP, IP and ICMP (and
a steep learning curve), it's now possible to ping in either direction
-- although the Mobius host dies if the ping packet is fragmented (i.e.
if you set the size too big).

[H:\unix\mn\src\drivers\rtl8139] ping 192.168.0.200 -t

Pinging 192.168.0.200 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 192.168.0.200: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.0.200: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=128
Reply from 192.168.0.200: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=128
[etc.]

Here's some statistics:

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.200:
    Packets: Sent = 316, Received = 309, Lost = 7 (2% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 20ms, Maximum =  41ms, Average =  25ms

Bear in mind that the 2% loss is achieved over just a couple of metres
of network cable...

-- 
Tim Robinson <tim...@ic...>

Re: [mobius-development] Re: Mobius apps development

[Tim R. <tim...@ic...>]

> Actually, I have a little favour to ask ;)
>
> Could you please make another hd image suitable for Bochs with the latest
binaries in it, and
> upload it to SF for us? (The one which I'm using is too old, and when I
use mtools on it, it
> periodically throws up errors about dodgy clusters and the like.) Cheers.

OK, good idea. I ought to include one in the SDK. I'll try to do that
tonight.

[mobius-development] Re: Mobius apps development

[Francis D. R. <Fr...@ro...>]

> Any more questions, feel free to ask. In the meantime, I'll see if I can
> improve the build process so that it works for everyone -- I think removing
> libsys's dependency on libc should make things smoother.

Actually, I have a little favour to ask ;)

Could you please make another hd image suitable for Bochs with the latest binaries in it, and
upload it to SF for us? (The one which I'm using is too old, and when I use mtools on it, it
periodically throws up errors about dodgy clusters and the like.) Cheers.

Francis

Re: [mobius-development] Mobius apps development

[Tim R. <tim...@ic...>]

> What I want to know is, how would I compile things for the Mobius? (Bear
> in mind I want to know what I type on the command line, like 'gcc
> hello.c -o hello.o -I./include' or what have you.) It'd be appreciated
> if someone could tell me the exact thing which I'd need to do :) After
> that, I'll (hopefully) be able to work it out for myself.

So far I've compiled and linked everything separately; linking via gcc
(rather than ld) might pull in some non-Mobius libraries, although I'm not
sure.

Something like this should be enough:

    gcc -c hello.o -o hello.o -I/mn/include
    ld -o hello.exe hello.o /mn/src/crt0.o /mn/lib/libc.lib
/mn/lib/libsys.lib

That will link hello.o with the C startup code and the DLL versions of the C
library (libc) and the Mobius library (libsys). For every user-mode library
you get the choice of linking statically (i.e. linking in the functions you
use within the EXE) or dynamically (i.e. linking to the DLL). You're
probably better off linking with the DLL for everything; otherwise, you end
up duplicating code in the EXE.

All the header files you'll need are in the include directory in the Mobius
source tree (probably /mn/include). The standard C headers are in the
include directory itself; the Mobius ones are in include/os, and the POSIX
ones are in include/posix.

As you may have seen from the makefiles in the CVS, builds for most things
are automated. That is, you can do this to build an EXE with the default
options:

    TARGET= $(BIN)/hello.exe
    OBJS= hello.o ../crt0.o
    LIBS= $(LIB)/libc.lib $(LIB)/libsys.lib

    include ../make.conf
    include ../make.actions

crt0.o assumes you're using int main(int argc, char **argv) (or int
main(void) ).
wcrt0.o assumes you're using int wmain(int argc, wchar_t **argv) (or int
wmain(void) ).
To build a library, use TARGET_D=name.dll and/or TARGET_S=name.lib (DLL and
static) instead of TARGET.

Any more questions, feel free to ask. In the meantime, I'll see if I can
improve the build process so that it works for everyone -- I think removing
libsys's dependency on libc should make things smoother.

[mobius-development] Mobius apps development

[Francis D. R. <Fr...@ro...>]

Hi all,

Since I can't get the source code to compile, I think I'm going to 
write/port some applications to the Mobius. I've got the hd disk image 
of  the Mobius (mobius-hd-20020414.zip) and the latest SDK 
(mobius-sdk-20020623.tar.gz).

What I want to know is, how would I compile things for the Mobius? (Bear 
in mind I want to know what I type on the command line, like 'gcc 
hello.c -o hello.o -I./include' or what have you.) It'd be appreciated 
if someone could tell me the exact thing which I'd need to do :) After 
that, I'll (hopefully) be able to work it out for myself.

Thank you very much,

Francis

Re: [mobius-development] Cygwin + Mobius

[prakash s. <hel...@ho...>]

Hi Tim/Rahman/Others,
   I would like to know if the CVS is updated and if I can download the 
source code afresh. Do (all of you/atleast some of you) have a MSN or a 
Yahoo ID ? I think it would be a good idea to have each of us included in 
our Messengers since it would enable us to have closer interactions and also 
a better reachability.

My MSN ID is hel...@ho...

Thanking you
Prakash S


>From: "Tim Robinson" <tim...@ic...>
>To: <mob...@li...>
>Subject: Re: [mobius-development] Cygwin + Mobius
>Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:13:39 +0100
>
> > ../make.actions:27: dllmain.d: No such file or directory
> > ../make.actions:27: syscall.d: No such file or directory
>[...]
>
>Don't worry about these missing .d files; they get generated automatically
>as necessary.
>
> > make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/mn/lib/libc_s.lib', needed by
> > `/mn/bin/libsys.dll'.  Stop.
>[...]
>
>This is OK: libsys relies on libc, which hasn't been built at this point.
>However, the libsys.dll file isn't necessary to build libc. IIRC the main
>makefile builds libsys twice: before and after building libc.
>
> > ctype/towupper.c: In function `towupper':
> > ctype/towupper.c:14: syntax error before `*'
> > ctype/towupper.c:15: `wc' undeclared (first use in this function)
> > ctype/towupper.c:15: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
> > ctype/towupper.c:15: for each function it appears in.)
> > ctype/towupper.c:15: warning: implicit declaration of function
> > `__lookup_unicode'
> > make[1]: *** [ctype/towupper.o] Error 1
>[...]
>
>There's something wrong here which is interfering with the building of 
>libc.
>Looks like I committed towupper.c to the CVS without trying to rebuild it
>first.
>
> > nasm -M i386/bsp.asm > i386/bsp.d
> > nasm: not found
> > make[1]: *** [i386/bsp.d] Error 127
>[...]
>
>You seem to be missing NASM... I forgot to mention that you need NASM to
>build the kernel.
>
> > make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/mn/lib/kernel.lib', needed by
> > `/mn/bin/ata.drv'.  Stop.
>[...]
>
>Without building the kernel, you can't build any drivers, because they've
>got nothing to link to.
>
> > tty.c: In function `TtyRequest':
> > tty.c:577: structure has no member named `buffer'
> > tty.c: In function `TtyAddDevice':
> > tty.c:593: structure has no member named `request'
> > tty.c:594: structure has no member named `isr'
> > tty.c: In function `DrvInit':
> > tty.c:616: structure has no member named `request'
> > tty.c:617: structure has no member named `isr'
> > make[2]: *** [tty.o] Error 1
>[...]
>
>This looks like an out-of-date TTY driver in the CVS.
>
> > make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/mn/lib/tty.lib', needed by
> > `/mn/bin/keyboard.drv'.  Stop.
>[...]
>
>The keyboard driver relies on the TTY one.
>
> > shell.c: In function `ShNormalizePath':
> > shell.c:154: structure has no member named `standard_attributes'
> > shell.c: In function `ShCmdDir':
> > shell.c:207: warning: implicit declaration of function `FsOpenSearch'
> > shell.c:216: structure has no member named `standard_attributes'
> > shell.c:218: structure has no member named `standard_attributes'
> > shell.c:221: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c: In function `ShDumpFile':
> > shell.c:252: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:254: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:256: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:262: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:266: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:281: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:301: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:307: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c: In function `ShCmdV86':
> > shell.c:610: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:620: structure has no member named `length'
> > shell.c:626: structure has no member named `length'
> > make[1]: *** [shell.o] Error 1
>[...]
>
>Since I handed over shell development to Sam Rahman, I haven't been
>committing the latest shell sources.
>
> > mcopy.cmd -o menu.lst  c:\\
> > make[1]: mcopy.cmd: Command not found
> > make[1]: *** [all] Error 127
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/mn/bin'
> > make: *** [all] Error 2
>
>I use mtools as part of my build process to ensure that the Bochs image is
>updated, although you can do this however you like.
>
>In summary:
>1) Someone (you or I -- my development machine doesn't have Internet access
>atm) needs to fix towupper.c.
>2) You need to install Nasm
>3) I need to make sure that the CVS version of the TTY driver is correct.
>4) Either I need to update the copy of the shell in the CVS, or Sam needs 
>to
>keep his version maintained. I suggest that I keep the original version
>up-to-date and that Sam forks it into a different directory and works on
>that one. Any shell development that I do will be orientated towards 
>testing
>rather than providing a nice command-line shell for users, so it would be
>best to keep a 'sanitised' copy which I don't hack on.
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
>Welcome to geek heaven.
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>_______________________________________________
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>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mobius-development





Luv
Prakash S

I care for those who care for me
                            - Prakash


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