From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-21 14:49:17
|
Before I respond to any of that thread I want to read the entire thread again. However, I want to make some points based on my initial read. 1) MSYS for MinGW has one goal; to make executing configure and make possible for the MINGW build environment. 2) If you need POSIX libraries you should use Cygwin. 3) If you simply want to create compatible build systems for your application you should target MinGW which would use MSYS to execute the configure script. 4) Time is precious; the MSYS development has become mostly stale. There are those when they have time that apply a patch or two now and then but not much time has been spent on MSYS in years. I myself have turned its maintenance over to others because I have no time for it currently. If you find it of value and want it to advance then you know what to do; so do it. 5) Time is precious; the www.mingw.org site was mostly stale. I've turned most of the documentation over to the community. If someone in the community cannot edit something and wants to change it; let us know via this list. As for links to the download of software, I plan for a sidebar block that will hopefully help that missing piece of information; I don't know yet when I'll get to that. If you've learned enough about Drupal administration and want to give it a go, let me know. We can also add modules that can change the layout, look, add menus from the tags, etc. 6) I've noticed that at times the DB seems slow; SF is planning on upgrading the DB servers to x86_64 with 8 CPU and lots of memory. That should help relieve the slowness in selecting the data from the DB. Earnie |
From: Chris W. <ch...@qw...> - 2008-07-21 20:27:09
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Hi Earnie, On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Earnie Boyd wrote: > 5) Time is precious; the www.mingw.org site was mostly stale. I've > turned most of the documentation over to the community. If someone > in the community cannot edit something and wants to change it; let us > know via this list. As for links to the download of software, I plan > for a sidebar block that will hopefully help that missing piece of > information; I don't know yet when I'll get to that. If you've > learned enough about Drupal administration and want to give it a go, > let me know. We can also add modules that can change the layout, > look, add menus from the tags, etc. I know a fair bit about Drupal administration and would be happy to help out with this. I believe I need more access than I currently have to add or edit blocks such as a navigation sidebar. My Drupal username is gcc if you would like to give me such access. Cheers, Chris. -- _____ __ _ \ __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Ruby/Perl/SQL Developer | \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU : free your mind & your software | |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-21 22:16:07
|
Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > Hi Earnie, > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Earnie Boyd wrote: > >> 5) Time is precious; the www.mingw.org site was mostly stale. I've >> turned most of the documentation over to the community. If someone >> in the community cannot edit something and wants to change it; let us >> know via this list. As for links to the download of software, I plan >> for a sidebar block that will hopefully help that missing piece of >> information; I don't know yet when I'll get to that. If you've >> learned enough about Drupal administration and want to give it a go, >> let me know. We can also add modules that can change the layout, >> look, add menus from the tags, etc. > > I know a fair bit about Drupal administration and would be happy to help > out with this. I believe I need more access than I currently have to add > or edit blocks such as a navigation sidebar. My Drupal username is gcc if > you would like to give me such access. > Done. We know who to point fingers at should it mess up. ;) Seriously, let me know if you need something else. If you have a module suggestion, let me know and I'll check it out. And thanks for offering to help. Earnie |
From: Chris W. <ch...@qw...> - 2008-07-21 22:17:54
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Hi Earnie, On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Earnie Boyd wrote: > > My Drupal username is gcc if you would like to give me such access. > > Done. We know who to point fingers at should it mess up. ;) > Seriously, let me know if you need something else. If you have a module > suggestion, let me know and I'll check it out. And thanks for offering > to help. Thanks :) Where is the appropriate place to discuss potential additions such as a new navigation block and what links should be on it? Here in mingw-users? Cheers, Chris. -- _____ __ _ \ __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Ruby/Perl/SQL Developer | \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU : free your mind & your software | |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-22 14:02:25
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Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > Hi Earnie, > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Earnie Boyd wrote: > >> > My Drupal username is gcc if you would like to give me such access. >> >> Done. We know who to point fingers at should it mess up. ;) >> Seriously, let me know if you need something else. If you have a module >> suggestion, let me know and I'll check it out. And thanks for offering >> to help. > > Thanks :) > > Where is the appropriate place to discuss potential additions such as a > new navigation block and what links should be on it? Here in mingw-users? > Yes, I want the users input, and then a wiki page created with what is agreed to. Too many times we've lost the agreed upon criteria to just have to revisit it again. Earnie |
From: Chris W. <ch...@qw...> - 2008-07-22 20:03:36
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Hi Earnie and all, On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Earnie Boyd wrote: > > Where is the appropriate place to discuss potential additions such as > > a new navigation block and what links should be on it? Here in > > mingw-users? > > Yes, I want the users input, and then a wiki page created with what is > agreed to. Too many times we've lost the agreed upon criteria to just > have to revisit it again. OK, how about this for starters. I looked at a few open source projects and saw a set of common links that most of them have. I'm not aware of a "standard" for such things, but more my general impression of things that most sites have. If anybody knows a standard or best practice, please jump in :) I think it might make sense to have two navigation boxes in the top left, for MinGW and MSYS, following the same structure for each. Things we might want to have in that structure: - About - Introduction (points to the home page?) - News (page with latest news items/postings) - Getting Started (points to a page with text based on the current wiki page) - Comparison (page comparing MinGW/MSYS with other systems such as MSVC, Cygwin) - Related projects (any that we want to mention? gnuwin32? cygwin?) - License (explanation of the license in plain language, links to the legal license) - Download - Stable Version (page describing the packages and linking to them, and installation instructions) - Testing Version (page describing the packages and linking to them, and installation instructions) - Latest Sources (page describing how to download the source packages from version control and build from source) - Documentation - Installation (points to the Download/Stable Version page) - Usage (page describing how to use MinGW/MSYS) - Upgrading (page describing how to upgrade to latest version) - Troubleshooting (new page with info gleaned from the Wikis and FAQ) - Cross Compiling (how to build compilers/environment on Linux or *NIX) - FAQ (based on current wiki pages) - Troubleshooting (maybe combine with FAQ?) - Release Process (is this documented anywhere?) - Roadmap (what changes do we have planned?) - Support - FAQ (same page as above) - Mailing Lists (list and description of mailing lists, signup links, advice on when and how to use each list) - Bug Tracker (which one do we use? Sourceforge? advice on how to post good bug reports) - Forums (links to forums that exist) - Commercial Support (does anyone offer this? Marketplace?) - Contributing - How to contribute (code, donations, documentation) - Roadmap (link to Documentation/Roadmap page above) - Downloading the Sources (link to Download/Latest Sources page above) - Mailing Lists (list of developers lists) - Coding Style - Submitting Changes (how to send patches, commit policy, who has commit rights) - Release Process (link to Documentation/Release Process page above) - Donating (do we accept donations? What kind?) Does anyone have any comments on things which should or shouldn't be on the site, or on this proposed structure? What do we want to do about wikis? While they are useful, I have a feeling that we should be encouraging people to get Drupal rights and commit content to the main website instead of a wiki where they are more likely to be lost? I'd prefer to see a single definitive site for MinGW and MSYS than a collection of arbitrary sites? Maybe a wiki is just a place to post content for "staging" before it gets moved to the main site? All thoughts and comments welcomed (by me, anyway). Cheers, Chris. -- _____ __ _ \ __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Ruby/Perl/SQL Developer | \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU : free your mind & your software | |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-23 14:39:47
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Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > > What do we want to do about wikis? While they are useful, I have a feeling > that we should be encouraging people to get Drupal rights and commit > content to the main website instead of a wiki where they are more likely > to be lost? I'd prefer to see a single definitive site for MinGW and MSYS > than a collection of arbitrary sites? Maybe a wiki is just a place to post > content for "staging" before it gets moved to the main site? > If we give everyone rights then it is just a wiki for the more static data. I prefer a more controlled set of users for the static data such as the About items. The wiki could be called Documentation which is where I believe you are really targeting the query. Every authenticated user is able to create a MinGWiki content type. > All thoughts and comments welcomed (by me, anyway). > And by me, users speak now or forever hold your peace. Earnie |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-23 14:48:05
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Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > > OK, how about this for starters. I looked at a few open source projects > and saw a set of common links that most of them have. I'm not aware of a > "standard" for such things, but more my general impression of things that > most sites have. If anybody knows a standard or best practice, please jump > in :) > I know of no such standard. > I think it might make sense to have two navigation boxes in the top left, > for MinGW and MSYS, following the same structure for each. Things we might > want to have in that structure: > MSYS is currently as much a part of MinGW as GCC is. I don't know that we should create a sense of separation. Although I create mingw-msys list back when for that very thing. However, I wish now that I had not done so. > - About > - Introduction (points to the home page?) > - News (page with latest news items/postings) > - Getting Started (points to a page with text based on the current > wiki page) > - Comparison (page comparing MinGW/MSYS with other systems such as > MSVC, Cygwin) > - Related projects (any that we want to mention? gnuwin32? > cygwin?) > - License (explanation of the license in plain language, links to > the legal license) > - Download > - Stable Version (page describing the packages and linking to > them, and installation instructions) > - Testing Version (page describing the packages and linking to > them, and installation instructions) > - Latest Sources (page describing how to download the source > packages from version control and build from source) > - Documentation > - Installation (points to the Download/Stable Version page) > - Usage (page describing how to use MinGW/MSYS) > - Upgrading (page describing how to upgrade to latest version) > - Troubleshooting (new page with info gleaned from the Wikis and > FAQ) > - Cross Compiling (how to build compilers/environment on Linux or > *NIX) > - FAQ (based on current wiki pages) > - Troubleshooting (maybe combine with FAQ?) > - Release Process (is this documented anywhere?) > - Roadmap (what changes do we have planned?) > - Support > - FAQ (same page as above) > - Mailing Lists (list and description of mailing lists, signup > links, advice on when and how to use each list) > - Bug Tracker (which one do we use? Sourceforge? advice on how to > post good bug reports) > - Forums (links to forums that exist) > - Commercial Support (does anyone offer this? Marketplace?) > - Contributing > - How to contribute (code, donations, documentation) > - Roadmap (link to Documentation/Roadmap page above) > - Downloading the Sources (link to Download/Latest Sources page > above) > - Mailing Lists (list of developers lists) > - Coding Style > - Submitting Changes (how to send patches, commit policy, who has > commit rights) > - Release Process (link to Documentation/Release Process page > above) > - Donating (do we accept donations? What kind?) > > Does anyone have any comments on things which should or shouldn't be on > the site, or on this proposed structure? > This looks good to me. Should I add the autopath module? > > All thoughts and comments welcomed (by me, anyway). > And by me. Community, speak now or forever be silent. Earnie |
From: John E. / T. <td...@td...> - 2008-07-23 14:58:40
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Earnie Boyd wrote: > Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > >> All thoughts and comments welcomed (by me, anyway). >> > > And by me, users speak now or forever hold your peace. > I don't think it makes sense to give every user modification rights on the whole Drupal website. What does seem best to me, however, is keeping only a minimum of content outside the Wiki (i.e. only modifiable by admins). For a good example of this, see NSIS's website: the main page and a few important subpages are unmodifiable by non-admins, and everything else is open to anyone with a Wiki account. I think the choice to use a more general-purpose CMS than just a Wiki is a good one, because fully-Wiki websites will feel cut-and-dried unless you make an effort at customization. So I would urge you to find a good minimum of important information to reside outside the Wiki, and then link to Wiki pages as much as possible. -John E. |
From: Greg C. <gch...@sb...> - 2008-07-23 15:23:51
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On 2008-07-23 14:39Z, Earnie Boyd wrote: > Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: >> >> What do we want to do about wikis? While they are useful, I have a feeling >> that we should be encouraging people to get Drupal rights and commit >> content to the main website instead of a wiki where they are more likely >> to be lost? I'd prefer to see a single definitive site for MinGW and MSYS >> than a collection of arbitrary sites? Maybe a wiki is just a place to post >> content for "staging" before it gets moved to the main site? > > If we give everyone rights then it is just a wiki for the more static > data. I prefer a more controlled set of users for the static data such > as the About items. The wiki could be called Documentation which is > where I believe you are really targeting the query. Every > authenticated user is able to create a MinGWiki content type. Because it's open to everyone, the wiki has become cluttered with unreliable advice. I like the idea of moving vetted material from the wiki to a more stable and controlled location--from the bazaar to the cathedral, if you will. An edited compendium like this http://www.cygwin.com/faq/ would be most useful. |
From: Chris W. <ch...@qw...> - 2008-07-23 18:14:38
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Hi Earnie, On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Earnie Boyd wrote: > > I think it might make sense to have two navigation boxes in the top > > left, for MinGW and MSYS, following the same structure for each. > > Things we might want to have in that structure: > > MSYS is currently as much a part of MinGW as GCC is. I don't know that > we should create a sense of separation. Although I create mingw-msys > list back when for that very thing. However, I wish now that I had not > done so. OK, so we'd have a section for each important component (mingw base system, gcc, msys, any others?) under the following pages: * About/License * Download/Stable * Download/Testing * Download/Sources * Documentation/Installation * Documentation/Usage Any others? > Should I add the autopath module? If you mean pathauto module then it sounds like a good idea, yes. Cheers, Chris. -- _____ __ _ \ __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Ruby/Perl/SQL Developer | \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU : free your mind & your software | |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-23 20:11:17
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Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > > If you mean pathauto module then it sounds like a good idea, yes. > Yes, that's what I meant; I'll look to adding it tomorrow. Earnie |
From: Chris W. <ch...@qw...> - 2008-07-23 18:18:58
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Hi Greg, On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Greg Chicares wrote: > Because it's open to everyone, the wiki has become cluttered with > unreliable advice. I agree, I think it's less well maintained than the main site, but gets equally many hits from Google. > I like the idea of moving vetted material from > the wiki to a more stable and controlled location--from the bazaar > to the cathedral, if you will. An edited compendium like this > http://www.cygwin.com/faq/ > would be most useful. Somebody would have to do that work. Is there a way that we could provide a Documentation/Wiki page that would list all the MinGWiki-content-type pages that have been created? Then people could regularly review them for inclusion in the main site, and we could eventually get rid of the "old" and "new" wikis. Perhaps we could add some text at the top of every MinGWiki-content-type page that says "If you feel this content should be moved to the main site, please send an email to the mingw-users mailing list"? Cheers, Chris. -- _____ __ _ \ __/ / ,__(_)_ | Chris Wilson <0000 at qwirx.com> - Cambs UK | / (_/ ,\/ _/ /_ \ | Security/C/C++/Java/Ruby/Perl/SQL Developer | \ _/_/_/_//_/___/ | We are GNU : free your mind & your software | |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-23 20:09:38
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Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: > Hi Greg, > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Greg Chicares wrote: > >> Because it's open to everyone, the wiki has become cluttered with >> unreliable advice. > > I agree, I think it's less well maintained than the main site, but gets > equally many hits from Google. > The nice thing about the New MinGWiki content type is that I set the revision control on. Should some text need to be reverted that should be easily doable. >> I like the idea of moving vetted material from >> the wiki to a more stable and controlled location--from the bazaar >> to the cathedral, if you will. An edited compendium like this >> http://www.cygwin.com/faq/ >> would be most useful. > > Somebody would have to do that work. > Maybe a FAQ content type? > Is there a way that we could provide a Documentation/Wiki page that would > list all the MinGWiki-content-type pages that have been created? Then > people could regularly review them for inclusion in the main site, and we > could eventually get rid of the "old" and "new" wikis. > The administrative menu has a filter for particular content types. There are also modules that can help with filtering the data. Perhaps a RSS feed registration to send the changed data to mingw-notify? > Perhaps we could add some text at the top of every MinGWiki-content-type > page that says "If you feel this content should be moved to the main site, > please send an email to the mingw-users mailing list"? > Easily doable if we agree. Earnie |
From: Keith M. <kei...@nt...> - 2008-07-23 19:44:22
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On Wednesday 23 July 2008 15:47:59 Earnie Boyd wrote: > MSYS is currently as much a part of MinGW as GCC is. I don't know > that we should create a sense of separation. Although I create > mingw-msys list back when for that very thing. However, I wish now > that I had not done so. Not so long ago we had a number of lists, for various barely unrelated topics; most of those are now defunct, although periodically, I still have to reject subscription requests. Today, we retain only MinGW-users, MinGW-MSYS and MinGW-dvlpr; of these, I view the latter as primarily for policy discussion amongst those who have signed up to be formally associated with the project, in some form of development role, while technical discussion should be directed to either of the former two. While it was suggested that MinGW-MSYS might be abandoned, at the time there was a consensus of opinion leaning towards maintaining the separation. However, traffic on MinGW-MSYS is very sparse now; maybe we should reconsider that decision. Should I now declare MinGW-MSYS defunct, and invite its subscribers to direct their enquiries to MinGW-Users instead? Regards, Keith. |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-23 19:55:13
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Quoting Keith Marshall <kei...@nt...>: > > Should I now declare MinGW-MSYS defunct, and invite its subscribers to > direct their enquiries to MinGW-Users instead? > I don't watch it. Yes. Earnie |
From: Reini U. <ru...@x-...> - 2008-07-24 10:16:25
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2008/7/23 John E. / TDM <td...@td...>: > Earnie Boyd wrote: >> Quoting Chris Wilson <ch...@qw...>: >>> All thoughts and comments welcomed (by me, anyway). >> >> And by me, users speak now or forever hold your peace. > > I don't think it makes sense to give every user modification rights on > the whole Drupal website. What does seem best to me, however, is keeping > only a minimum of content outside the Wiki (i.e. only modifiable by admins). > > For a good example of this, see NSIS's website: the main page and a few > important subpages are unmodifiable by non-admins, and everything else > is open to anyone with a Wiki account. > > I think the choice to use a more general-purpose CMS than just a Wiki is > a good one, because fully-Wiki websites will feel cut-and-dried unless > you make an effort at customization. So I would urge you to find a good > minimum of important information to reside outside the Wiki, and then > link to Wiki pages as much as possible. Should I come up with a decent and modern wiki template for mingw? That's quite easy to do for me as phpwiki author :) -- Reini Urban http://phpwiki.org/ http://murbreak.at/ |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-24 12:46:52
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Quoting Reini Urban <ru...@x-...>: > > Should I come up with a decent and modern wiki template for mingw? > That's quite easy to do for me as phpwiki author :) > Sorry, the new MinGWiki is using Drupal to manage the content. Unfortunately for us the pear_wiki module that is being used doesn't contain emulation for phpwiki so I've chosen to use the MediaWiki formatting style. This means that the phpwiki format we now have needs converted. Earnie |
From: Reini U. <ru...@x-...> - 2008-07-25 11:00:02
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2008/7/24 Earnie Boyd <ea...@us...>: > > Quoting Reini Urban <ru...@x-...>: > >> >> Should I come up with a decent and modern wiki template for mingw? >> That's quite easy to do for me as phpwiki author :) >> > > Sorry, the new MinGWiki is using Drupal to manage the content. > Unfortunately for us the pear_wiki module that is being used doesn't > contain emulation for phpwiki so I've chosen to use the MediaWiki > formatting style. This means that the phpwiki format we now have needs > converted. There's a converter available which parses the html code to the target wiki format. mediawiki has much less dynamic options (via plugins) than phpwiki, because it is optimized for static pages, but the html formattter captures only the static content, so it is okay to use. http://search.cpan.org/dist/HTML-WikiConverter/bin/html2wiki -- Reini Urban http://phpwiki.org/ http://murbreak.at/ |
From: Earnie B. <ea...@us...> - 2008-07-25 13:09:43
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Quoting Reini Urban <ru...@x-...>: > 2008/7/24 Earnie Boyd <ea...@us...>: >> >> Quoting Reini Urban <ru...@x-...>: >> >>> >>> Should I come up with a decent and modern wiki template for mingw? >>> That's quite easy to do for me as phpwiki author :) >>> >> >> Sorry, the new MinGWiki is using Drupal to manage the content. >> Unfortunately for us the pear_wiki module that is being used doesn't >> contain emulation for phpwiki so I've chosen to use the MediaWiki >> formatting style. This means that the phpwiki format we now have needs >> converted. > > There's a converter available which parses the html code to the target > wiki format. Thanks for the link, perhaps it can be used. > mediawiki has much less dynamic options (via plugins) than phpwiki, because > it is optimized for static pages, but the html formattter captures > only the static > content, so it is okay to use. > We're using Drupal and not MediaWiki. There is a module contributed for Drupal that supplies a wiki filter http://drupal.org/project/pearwiki_filter and it uses the Text_Wiki Pear package http://pear.php.net/package/Text_Wiki/ and I've chosen the MediaWiki formatting features. I had started using DokuWiki formatting but found it lacking in some features. Earnie |