I went to the Metadot.net site and guess what ? This was displayed.
Due to a change in business model, this site has been discontinued.
For those interested in portals, content management systems, and
collaboration and communication solutions, Metadot Corporation
provides professional support, services and products.
Please see http://www.metadot.com/.
Hours before that. a similar message was displayed but they
recommended PHPNuke with a Link to their site.
What's going on ???
We need to do something about this!!!
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I know what you mean. Just found out the same... and I run the portal server for our (small) community, having some major problems, still, after half a year of production use... Where do we have to get support from now? Does this mean Metadot.net is being shut down? I wondered where the stable release (not beta) of Metadot 4.0 was going to be released, as 4.0b still had some install and config issues (that is, I have)...
Is there any way we can start the metadot system ourselve? Or do we have to pay for the use of it? Is it still OK to use it freely???
Anyone has an answer??? I really need to know...
thanks
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
The current release of the code is freely available. I posted a while back about what happens when Metadot Corp stops supporting it, and it may have been Daniel who repied that the code will go back to the open source community. The problem is...
1. An architect will need to champion the software and manage the developers
2. Is perl (still) a good choice?
3. If yes to number 2, will someone not want to re-architect the current metadot code? (i.e. have you seen the code and tried to enhance it? good luck)
Until a group takes control, there is no support. I built a successful site with metadot, have a lot of code to share, and use 4.0"b" in production, but would I recommend it on a new project? doubtful...
Chris
ps. did someone say perl is JSP-like???? wha??? I guess I can think of some similarities... like they are both software paradigms.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
==> I don't believe that the programming language is very relevant. Forget discussing about perl vs. java here.
I personally have spent sime to refactoring the 4.0b code and implemented real templating-support (HTML::Template, but currently switching to HTML::Mason). This gave the software a big boost, because now it is very flexible in presentation.
The original code was a mess (ugly html hardcoded into the code), but with some good project-management and coordination i think it could be polished up to quite a good CM.
I am not used to cvs, so i have no idea how to contribute the code here.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
You need CVS access for that. Is there any of the admins and developpers of this project reading this forum? It would be nice to know if it's still being maintained. If it's been abandonned, there are a few options open:
* Getting permission from the original admins to take over this project.
* Failing that getting permission from sourceforge to take it over, only if there's no response from the original admins.
* Failing all of the above, start a new project, possibly under a different name.
Personnally I have been considering a port to Zope. Using an XML database as a backend might be nice too, althought I have never used one before.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2002-10-29
I think that enough of the developers/ administrators have expressed interest in the project. The big issue is whether the existing project architect and developers are willing to turn over the development to others. I think we have a number of issues to consider:
* Do we have developers which have the time and experience to carry on the project.
* Is there a better method for achieving the desired result. ie.. use of web services ( WDSL, SOAP,XML,XSLT,XSL) with other languages.
* PHP and Python may be better suited for a portal.
( Requires PHP)
* Move to a total application server utilizing, JSP and servlets.( Requires JBOSS, Tomcat)
* Continue with mod_perl and utilize mason or Bricolage. ( Requires Mason and or Bricolage)
* The last issue is support, Who can support the existing tree? The code is dense but not totally unrecognizable
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Another consideration is the general direction of metadot. Do the sites that use metadot get a lot of traffic on the portal part? Another consideration is if there are places to reduce the scope of metadot and increase the quality of what is remaining. Based on my usage statistics, I wouldnt mind letting go of portals, changing / improving the security portion, and focusing on website and content management with extranet ability.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I don't see how to find out if we have enough time to carry on without giving it a try. IMHO our immediate need before any other type of development can take place is to consolidate the current 4.0b release. Gather patches and bug reports. That's probably where most interest resides at the moment. I heard that there is a Yahoo! forum about metadot. People there could be interested too. Another immediate concern should be where and how to coordinate this effort. For the moment I would suggest posting the patches to this site.
About the existing developpers/architects turning the project over, has anyone already contacted any of them about it?
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2002-10-11
I also have gone to the metadot.net site and found that support has been discontinued. This product was started under the GNU software aggreement. I downloaded the code from sourceforge and have used it consistently with the stated requirements. I assume that all GNU requirments and restrictions apply to any code downloaded from here. There are many sites which use the software version 4.0b. This version is beta, however it is running in production on many servers. I think that the best thing to do at this point is to continue to post to this site.
I also think that many of the open source members who are active in the metadot project may continue to develop additions to the current tree if there is enough support. I will be happy to share any knowledge gained on my experiences with the product.
There are other portal like applications which utilize php or other languages however I feel that metadot is close to the .JSP type portals which are used on the larger commerical sites. The metadot model does not require a J2EE server however. This is a plus for non-profits and small companies getting in to the dynamic web content arena.
Perl is a good language to use for this type of implementation and the speed shows on a properly configured metadot server.
Spread the word that metadot users should post here. Part of the problem is that when the metadot.net site was created, the development community for the project was split.
I think they ( the existing developers of the extranet product) have a good model and deserve to reap the benefits. They did write the code. At the same time there should be no reason why the metadot 4.0.x development cycle could not be maintained.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2002-10-16
I agree. The point that I was making was not that PERL and JAVA, J2EE, EJB's, Servlets or JSP's are the same but that the implementation of metadot is modular in design. You simply add your .pm modules to the server and they can be used. In addition, metadot has provided an environment for gizmo's which allows the developer to write code through use of an API. This reduces the time needed to complete an application.
In addition, the required development environment needed to write PERL modules or scripts is reduced a magnitude. The product is heavily dependant on Perl mods which are distributed via the GNU. The code is documented to a large degree. I think the question is. " Can the existing code base be refactored and moved forward or is there a better approach to providing personalization and content management?
Based on the other Portals that are GNU, Non that I have seen offer the I-planet, or Websphere like personalization which I am talking about. Metadot does come close.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
My point is that perl vs. jsp and asp doesnt really compare to the new three letter acronyms since they were built for web applications, perl was built to do regular expressions, scripting, and reporting. Yes with add-on perl modules you achieve an API where you can access an equivalent HTTP request object. But no, the language is not inherently object oriented, it isnt compiled (eval can cause big problems), it isnt as safe to run on a webserver, and it is losing popularity in the web application space.
I have been developing perl for years, I know metadot intimately, I did a great website with it. But in my 6 years of software development, I have very infrequently used perl in industry, only for personal websites. Why? because there are newer, better technologies for web applications that are inherently more stable, maintainable, scalable, and reusable.
If you have built a perl application, and have also built a similar jsp/servlet application, hopefully you will know what i mean. I might even prefer php which was built for the web, as more people will easily be able to use it. Metadot and perl apps are not easy to use, and people wont use them. Look at how many people used metadot, and where are any good examples of metadot implementations? i havent seen many good examples. Bugzilla is my favorite perl app, and it is starting to lose ground to worse applications in better technologies for the above reasons.
But in any case, Im interested in helping out with this project whichever way it goes (since i know the current architecture well, and have code to add).
Cheers,
Chris
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Good point about the Yahoo forum. This exact thread is over there as well, I suspect most people know this. For those who dont, maybe you should get on it.
I wouldnt mind only using that forum (because it has more momentum) so we can consolidate our ideas and energy.
Chris
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2002-11-02
I agree. I think that the first step should be to consolidate the interest in the project. From there, we can look at providing support to the exsiting tree. There are many people using the 4.0b release in production. Most of the sites vary from non-profits to small ISP's. The strength is in numbers as the Open Source moment has proven. organization is the key. Many folks will contribute if the effort is organized.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2002-11-05
I think Sourceforge is the place for the Project development information to stay. There are several advantages to posting a project here. If the project is not popular this does not mean it is sourceforge problem. The creme rises to the top! Secondly the CVS, notification, SSL, and other features are better here.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I opened about a month or 2 ago a sourceforge project called openmetadot
where I have uploaded the current 4.0b version of metadot and also uploaded
it all to a CVS tree where I have been posting changes as I have been making
them.
I have also registered openmetadot.net to be a website for the project done
in metadot. I am willing to let anyone who is willing to actively work on
the project into the project to post changes to CVS. I think the reason
metadot.net didn't work for metadot corp was that they did not make it easy
enough for developers to send in what they had worked on. I know of several
people who have actively worked on metadot but they couldn't submit their
work to metadot corp for inclusion in the package. I am hoping to resolve
this issue with this new offshot. Anyone who is willing to be a part of the
project, please post a message in it's developer's forum (which for the time
being I have marked public for these initial postings). The Forum can be
found here: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=229096 and the
project summary can be found here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/openmetadot/
Nicholas Moline
"Richard Hunter" <hdgmajic@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:197@16323.5300.sourceforge.net...
>
> I think Sourceforge is the place for the Project development information
to stay. There are several advantages to posting a project here. If the
project is not popular this does not mean it is sourceforge problem. The
creme rises to the top! Secondly the CVS, notification, SSL, and other
features are better here.
>
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I like Nick's idea better .... but I have some more comment to add... :)
Rename the project to "OpenMetadot" to make it less confusing for people who are learning about this software for the first time. (Nick completed 80%, now start calling it OpenMetadot Project all together)
Rename the initial code base to OpenMetadot_1.0 or something (In this case, I am little ignorant to know if we can breach GPL agreement)
We can still reserve the domain name www.openmetadot.com or org ...and implement OpenMetadot code (code reflecting openmetadot...)
Everything can still take place here in SourceForge but that site will be information for folks who are not aware of this product and usually browse via search engine
.....etc...
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I have actually been working on these things. The reason you only sighted
..com and .org is probably because you saw that .net was taken, I have
registered that name and have setup a copy of my new CVS version of metadot
there. I have some graphics people I know working on an OpenMetadot logo
and will be replacing all mentions of Metadot in it with OpenMetadot and
indeed the first initial release will be OpenMetadot 1.0.
"impu choudhury" <impu007@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:199@16323.5300.sourceforge.net...
>
> I like Nick's idea better .... but I have some more comment to add... :)
>
> Rename the project to "OpenMetadot" to make it less confusing for people
who are learning about this software for the first time. (Nick completed
80%, now start calling it OpenMetadot Project all together)
>
> Rename the initial code base to OpenMetadot_1.0 or something (In this
case, I am little ignorant to know if we can breach GPL agreement)
>
> We can still reserve the domain name www.openmetadot.com or org ...and
implement OpenMetadot code (code reflecting openmetadot...)
>
> Everything can still take place here in SourceForge but that site will be
information for folks who are not aware of this product and usually browse
via search engine
>
> ....etc...
>
>
>
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2003-01-09
Hey Gang,
I'm new to the Metadot groupies and I was very excited about the prospects of this code, so I went to metadot.com and found no support too. Then I found your discussion and I was happy to see that I wasnt dreaming anything . . . I am now a registered user at openmetadot.net - - - - Lets keep this thing together and moving in a forward motion.
How can I help ??
Eric
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I went to the Metadot.net site and guess what ? This was displayed.
Due to a change in business model, this site has been discontinued.
For those interested in portals, content management systems, and
collaboration and communication solutions, Metadot Corporation
provides professional support, services and products.
Please see http://www.metadot.com/.
Hours before that. a similar message was displayed but they
recommended PHPNuke with a Link to their site.
What's going on ???
We need to do something about this!!!
I know what you mean. Just found out the same... and I run the portal server for our (small) community, having some major problems, still, after half a year of production use... Where do we have to get support from now? Does this mean Metadot.net is being shut down? I wondered where the stable release (not beta) of Metadot 4.0 was going to be released, as 4.0b still had some install and config issues (that is, I have)...
Is there any way we can start the metadot system ourselve? Or do we have to pay for the use of it? Is it still OK to use it freely???
Anyone has an answer??? I really need to know...
thanks
The current release of the code is freely available. I posted a while back about what happens when Metadot Corp stops supporting it, and it may have been Daniel who repied that the code will go back to the open source community. The problem is...
1. An architect will need to champion the software and manage the developers
2. Is perl (still) a good choice?
3. If yes to number 2, will someone not want to re-architect the current metadot code? (i.e. have you seen the code and tried to enhance it? good luck)
Until a group takes control, there is no support. I built a successful site with metadot, have a lot of code to share, and use 4.0"b" in production, but would I recommend it on a new project? doubtful...
Chris
ps. did someone say perl is JSP-like???? wha??? I guess I can think of some similarities... like they are both software paradigms.
==> I don't believe that the programming language is very relevant. Forget discussing about perl vs. java here.
I personally have spent sime to refactoring the 4.0b code and implemented real templating-support (HTML::Template, but currently switching to HTML::Mason). This gave the software a big boost, because now it is very flexible in presentation.
The original code was a mess (ugly html hardcoded into the code), but with some good project-management and coordination i think it could be polished up to quite a good CM.
I am not used to cvs, so i have no idea how to contribute the code here.
You need CVS access for that. Is there any of the admins and developpers of this project reading this forum? It would be nice to know if it's still being maintained. If it's been abandonned, there are a few options open:
* Getting permission from the original admins to take over this project.
* Failing that getting permission from sourceforge to take it over, only if there's no response from the original admins.
* Failing all of the above, start a new project, possibly under a different name.
Personnally I have been considering a port to Zope. Using an XML database as a backend might be nice too, althought I have never used one before.
Since today i got no reply to my request to add my code via cvs.
Looks like the current admins do not care.
We all knew that.....
I think that enough of the developers/ administrators have expressed interest in the project. The big issue is whether the existing project architect and developers are willing to turn over the development to others. I think we have a number of issues to consider:
* Do we have developers which have the time and experience to carry on the project.
* Is there a better method for achieving the desired result. ie.. use of web services ( WDSL, SOAP,XML,XSLT,XSL) with other languages.
* PHP and Python may be better suited for a portal.
( Requires PHP)
* Move to a total application server utilizing, JSP and servlets.( Requires JBOSS, Tomcat)
* Continue with mod_perl and utilize mason or Bricolage. ( Requires Mason and or Bricolage)
* The last issue is support, Who can support the existing tree? The code is dense but not totally unrecognizable
Another consideration is the general direction of metadot. Do the sites that use metadot get a lot of traffic on the portal part? Another consideration is if there are places to reduce the scope of metadot and increase the quality of what is remaining. Based on my usage statistics, I wouldnt mind letting go of portals, changing / improving the security portion, and focusing on website and content management with extranet ability.
I don't see how to find out if we have enough time to carry on without giving it a try. IMHO our immediate need before any other type of development can take place is to consolidate the current 4.0b release. Gather patches and bug reports. That's probably where most interest resides at the moment. I heard that there is a Yahoo! forum about metadot. People there could be interested too. Another immediate concern should be where and how to coordinate this effort. For the moment I would suggest posting the patches to this site.
About the existing developpers/architects turning the project over, has anyone already contacted any of them about it?
I also have gone to the metadot.net site and found that support has been discontinued. This product was started under the GNU software aggreement. I downloaded the code from sourceforge and have used it consistently with the stated requirements. I assume that all GNU requirments and restrictions apply to any code downloaded from here. There are many sites which use the software version 4.0b. This version is beta, however it is running in production on many servers. I think that the best thing to do at this point is to continue to post to this site.
I also think that many of the open source members who are active in the metadot project may continue to develop additions to the current tree if there is enough support. I will be happy to share any knowledge gained on my experiences with the product.
There are other portal like applications which utilize php or other languages however I feel that metadot is close to the .JSP type portals which are used on the larger commerical sites. The metadot model does not require a J2EE server however. This is a plus for non-profits and small companies getting in to the dynamic web content arena.
Perl is a good language to use for this type of implementation and the speed shows on a properly configured metadot server.
Spread the word that metadot users should post here. Part of the problem is that when the metadot.net site was created, the development community for the project was split.
I think they ( the existing developers of the extranet product) have a good model and deserve to reap the benefits. They did write the code. At the same time there should be no reason why the metadot 4.0.x development cycle could not be maintained.
I agree. The point that I was making was not that PERL and JAVA, J2EE, EJB's, Servlets or JSP's are the same but that the implementation of metadot is modular in design. You simply add your .pm modules to the server and they can be used. In addition, metadot has provided an environment for gizmo's which allows the developer to write code through use of an API. This reduces the time needed to complete an application.
In addition, the required development environment needed to write PERL modules or scripts is reduced a magnitude. The product is heavily dependant on Perl mods which are distributed via the GNU. The code is documented to a large degree. I think the question is. " Can the existing code base be refactored and moved forward or is there a better approach to providing personalization and content management?
Based on the other Portals that are GNU, Non that I have seen offer the I-planet, or Websphere like personalization which I am talking about. Metadot does come close.
My point is that perl vs. jsp and asp doesnt really compare to the new three letter acronyms since they were built for web applications, perl was built to do regular expressions, scripting, and reporting. Yes with add-on perl modules you achieve an API where you can access an equivalent HTTP request object. But no, the language is not inherently object oriented, it isnt compiled (eval can cause big problems), it isnt as safe to run on a webserver, and it is losing popularity in the web application space.
I have been developing perl for years, I know metadot intimately, I did a great website with it. But in my 6 years of software development, I have very infrequently used perl in industry, only for personal websites. Why? because there are newer, better technologies for web applications that are inherently more stable, maintainable, scalable, and reusable.
If you have built a perl application, and have also built a similar jsp/servlet application, hopefully you will know what i mean. I might even prefer php which was built for the web, as more people will easily be able to use it. Metadot and perl apps are not easy to use, and people wont use them. Look at how many people used metadot, and where are any good examples of metadot implementations? i havent seen many good examples. Bugzilla is my favorite perl app, and it is starting to lose ground to worse applications in better technologies for the above reasons.
But in any case, Im interested in helping out with this project whichever way it goes (since i know the current architecture well, and have code to add).
Cheers,
Chris
Good point about the Yahoo forum. This exact thread is over there as well, I suspect most people know this. For those who dont, maybe you should get on it.
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metadot
I wouldnt mind only using that forum (because it has more momentum) so we can consolidate our ideas and energy.
Chris
I agree. I think that the first step should be to consolidate the interest in the project. From there, we can look at providing support to the exsiting tree. There are many people using the 4.0b release in production. Most of the sites vary from non-profits to small ISP's. The strength is in numbers as the Open Source moment has proven. organization is the key. Many folks will contribute if the effort is organized.
I think Sourceforge is the place for the Project development information to stay. There are several advantages to posting a project here. If the project is not popular this does not mean it is sourceforge problem. The creme rises to the top! Secondly the CVS, notification, SSL, and other features are better here.
I opened about a month or 2 ago a sourceforge project called openmetadot
where I have uploaded the current 4.0b version of metadot and also uploaded
it all to a CVS tree where I have been posting changes as I have been making
them.
I have also registered openmetadot.net to be a website for the project done
in metadot. I am willing to let anyone who is willing to actively work on
the project into the project to post changes to CVS. I think the reason
metadot.net didn't work for metadot corp was that they did not make it easy
enough for developers to send in what they had worked on. I know of several
people who have actively worked on metadot but they couldn't submit their
work to metadot corp for inclusion in the package. I am hoping to resolve
this issue with this new offshot. Anyone who is willing to be a part of the
project, please post a message in it's developer's forum (which for the time
being I have marked public for these initial postings). The Forum can be
found here: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=229096 and the
project summary can be found here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/openmetadot/
Nicholas Moline
"Richard Hunter" <hdgmajic@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:197@16323.5300.sourceforge.net...
>
> I think Sourceforge is the place for the Project development information
to stay. There are several advantages to posting a project here. If the
project is not popular this does not mean it is sourceforge problem. The
creme rises to the top! Secondly the CVS, notification, SSL, and other
features are better here.
>
I like Nick's idea better .... but I have some more comment to add... :)
Rename the project to "OpenMetadot" to make it less confusing for people who are learning about this software for the first time. (Nick completed 80%, now start calling it OpenMetadot Project all together)
Rename the initial code base to OpenMetadot_1.0 or something (In this case, I am little ignorant to know if we can breach GPL agreement)
We can still reserve the domain name www.openmetadot.com or org ...and implement OpenMetadot code (code reflecting openmetadot...)
Everything can still take place here in SourceForge but that site will be information for folks who are not aware of this product and usually browse via search engine
.....etc...
I have actually been working on these things. The reason you only sighted
..com and .org is probably because you saw that .net was taken, I have
registered that name and have setup a copy of my new CVS version of metadot
there. I have some graphics people I know working on an OpenMetadot logo
and will be replacing all mentions of Metadot in it with OpenMetadot and
indeed the first initial release will be OpenMetadot 1.0.
"impu choudhury" <impu007@users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
news:199@16323.5300.sourceforge.net...
>
> I like Nick's idea better .... but I have some more comment to add... :)
>
> Rename the project to "OpenMetadot" to make it less confusing for people
who are learning about this software for the first time. (Nick completed
80%, now start calling it OpenMetadot Project all together)
>
> Rename the initial code base to OpenMetadot_1.0 or something (In this
case, I am little ignorant to know if we can breach GPL agreement)
>
> We can still reserve the domain name www.openmetadot.com or org ...and
implement OpenMetadot code (code reflecting openmetadot...)
>
> Everything can still take place here in SourceForge but that site will be
information for folks who are not aware of this product and usually browse
via search engine
>
> ....etc...
>
>
>
Great! Looking forward to it then!
Hey Gang,
I'm new to the Metadot groupies and I was very excited about the prospects of this code, so I went to metadot.com and found no support too. Then I found your discussion and I was happy to see that I wasnt dreaming anything . . . I am now a registered user at openmetadot.net - - - - Lets keep this thing together and moving in a forward motion.
How can I help ??
Eric