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From: Linux D. A. <li...@iv...> - 2000-06-18 03:37:54
|
While I have been working with OpenGL since its inception I am relatively new to Mesa and the Source Forge development system here so bear with me. An initial question: If I find what I think is bug do I directly try to add in the source forge bug tracker or do we discuss it first here to make sure a bug has really been found? I recently compiled a fairly large visualization system under Linux-i386 and Mesa OpenGL. Overall I am very impressed - kudos to the developers. However I did discover several bugs, one which I think is quite serious. These tests were done with a dataset of approx. 50 million polygons. Here are the problems that I found ---- #1 Incorrect Rendering of Subpixel quadstrips - Serious problem ? Polygons less than one pixel in size don't display at all. Take a very complex polygonal surface then slowly pull back. Given the huge number of polygons eventually the size of a polygon will be mathematically smaller than one pixel. It appears at this stage that no on screen pixel representation is drawn. Thus as you pull back the suface discenigrates and vanishes even though the overall surface might cover thousands of pixels. Note this problem does not happen on SGI, Sun, or windows OpenGL implementations so I guess there is some aspect of the OpenGL standard that Mesa does not correctly implement. In this implementation the surface is a digital terrain model rendered as a series a quad strips. ---- #2 Front & Back buffer drawing+blending = crash With a double buffered visual if I draw polygons (quad strips in this case) normally or use glDrawBuffer( GL_FRONT ) and draw the polygons no problem. However, if I use glDrawBuffer(GL_FRONT_AND_BACK) the application crashes. Here's some output from gdb. Reading symbols from /lib/ld-linux.so.2...done. #0 0x400552ac in blend_transparency (ctx=Cannot access memory at address 0x3d ) at blend.c:286 286 blend.c: No such file or directory. (gdb) where #0 0x400552ac in blend_transparency (ctx=Cannot access memory at address 0x3d ) at blend.c:286 #1 0x842ed10 in ?? () Cannot access memory at address 0x1 Note that the quad strips are drawn with GL_BLEND enabled although I am not sure if that has anything to do with the problem. ---- #3 Rendering Performance Issue - Not a bug but an observation. Again using a double buffered (+Zbuffer) - If I draw the same quad strip scene described in bug #1 normaly in the background and swap it to the foregroup this the usual SwapBuffer command I get excellent performance. However if I set glDrawBuffer(GL_FRONT) and render the same scene you get absolutely horrible performance in comparison. I would say 10-12 times slower. I would expect the two situations to have similar performance with only glDrawBuffer(GL_FONT_AND_BACK) to suffering a performance penalty. Anyone with more Mesa knowledge care to comment - Is this a problem or just a optimization waiting for an implementor? ---- This testing was done with a C++ application using Mesa 3.2, Redhat 6.2 with the stock kernel, XFree86 3.3.6, Metrolink Motif, and the SGI Motif OpenGL drawing widget from Mesa (GLwMDrawingA.h). I plan to look into #2 myself as a first experiment working with the Mesa code but for #1 and #3 it would be nice to see some dicussion from the more experienced Mesa developers. Sould I add these bugs to source forge? Talk to you later, Mark ------------------------------------- Mark Paton Interactive Visualization Systems Inc. http://www.ivs.unb.ca |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-15 15:15:04
|
"Sebastián González M." wrote: > > Hi there! > Please consider this 7-line program, 'test.cpp': > > #include <cstdlib> > #include <GL/glut.h> > > int main(void) > { > return 0; > } > > I'm working with Mesa on Linux, when compiling test.cpp with -ansi -pedantic > i get: > > In file included from test.cpp:2: > /usr/include/GL/glut.h:202: warning: declaration of `exit(int)' throws > different exceptions > /usr/include/stdlib.h:520: warning: previous declaration here > > glut.h declares exit(), why? > I think that exit() dcl isn't needed to GLUT end-users; can you remove it on > next release? I've removed it. It's another side effect of Windows-specific nonsense. -Brian |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-14 23:17:26
|
I've moved the definition of the LLBL macro into assyntax.h and removed it from all .S files. It also now uses the CONCAT macro. Then I removed all spaces from all invocations of that macro. I.e. LLBL( foo ) becomes LLBL(foo). I did this to fix problem encountered when building on FreeBSD 3.4 inside the XFree86 X tree. There shouldn't be any side effects to these changes but I'd appreciate people updating their sources and testing the changes. -Brian |
From: Holger W. <hwa...@ya...> - 2000-06-14 16:26:46
|
Hi, on http://www.nvidia.com/Marketing/Developer/DevRel.nsf/TechnicalDemosFrame?OpenPage you find various demos and algorithms for different approaches to bump mapping without the need of a special extension. However, non of them does a real per pixel lighting or is able to change light parameters over a triangle. - Holger |
From: Scott M. <mcm...@ca...> - 2000-06-14 13:54:04
|
I don't know if this is coincidence or not, but Slashdot posted a pointer to an article at tweak3d.net about the various kinds of bump mapping. At one point the article mentions that the G400 can do Environment Mapped Bump Mapping: "This feature was first introduced in Matrox's G400 graphic card series and the upcoming RadeOn GPU from ATI is expected to implement EMBM as well." Check out: http://www.tweak3d.net/articles/bumpmapping/ -- Scott McMillan mailto:mcm...@ca... Cambridge Research Associates http://www.cambridge.com 1430 Spring Hill Road, Ste. 200 Voice: (703) 790-0505 x7235 McLean, VA 22102 Fax: (703) 790-0370 |
From: Holger W. <hwa...@ya...> - 2000-06-14 12:03:53
|
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Stephen J Baker wrote: > Whatever you implement needs to be something that at least *some* hardware > can support - which means that we should be using some of the existing > extensions rather than inventing new ones. Does any current card supports a 'real' per pixel lighting ? I believed phong shading is usually implemented by multitexturing using the modulating texture as exponential lookup table. > Also, if you stick with existing extensions, there is a better chance > that programs not specifically written for Mesa will take advantage > of this new code. Note that Mesa is no longer the only game in town > for Linux users - the nVidia driver already has bump-map extensions - and > I fully intend my programs to make use of them. Simple bumpmapping can be implemented on usual consumer cards using multitexturing without any additional extension. On nVidia's website was a 'GLBump' demo a while ago (don't know, if it's still there ...), which shows a simple and straightforward implementation of this. Does anybody knows where to get the spec to nVidias bumpmapping extension ? I never heard about it until now. - Holger |
From: Holger W. <hwa...@ya...> - 2000-06-14 12:02:56
|
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Brian Paul wrote: > Holger Waechtler wrote: > > I have some concerns about implementing these extensions: > 1. Will any of these extensions map onto current hardware? None that I > know of. Shure, but if next generation cards may be designed for this. Do you know a graphics chip designer we might ask ? > 2. There are patent issues associated with them. Who is owning the patents ? > 3. They're somewhat complicated and I worry about implementation problems. Yes, but the design is clean and we have the spec now. As far I have seen, a new triangle rasterizer would have to be implemented, which interpolates normals and light texture parameters. > I'd like to see an extension spec for NVIDIA's new per-pixel lighting feature. > That might be more interesting/useful. That's the other way. Who knows, where to get this ? - Holger |
From: ralf w. <b_...@gm...> - 2000-06-14 11:25:32
|
Stephen J Baker wrote: > You should be able to find out all about the nVidia extensions (for example) > at the www.opengl.org site. > nvidia writes extensions specific to their hardware.. so does sgi. i wanted something simple. -- ralf willenbacher (bj...@oc...) |
From: Stephen J B. <sj...@li...> - 2000-06-13 20:00:21
|
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Holger Waechtler wrote: > > ralf willenbacher wrote: > > > > attached are my thoughts on a bumpmapping extension for mesa. > > i would like to hear some opinions :> > > What do you think about implementing GL_EXT_texture_perturb_normal ?? > > GL_EXT_light_texture, GL_EXT_coordinate_space and GL_EXT_fragment_lighting > would have to be written first, but it's the better solution in my mind. > If you go this way, I would be glad if I could help implementing one or > two of those extensions. Whatever you implement needs to be something that at least *some* hardware can support - which means that we should be using some of the existing extensions rather than inventing new ones. Also, if you stick with existing extensions, there is a better chance that programs not specifically written for Mesa will take advantage of this new code. Note that Mesa is no longer the only game in town for Linux users - the nVidia driver already has bump-map extensions - and I fully intend my programs to make use of them. You should be able to find out all about the nVidia extensions (for example) at the www.opengl.org site. --ooOOoo-- Please note the change in my email address (was hti.com - now link.com) Steve Baker (817)619-2657 (Vox/Vox-Mail) L3Com/Link Simulation & Training (817)619-2466 (Fax) Work: sj...@li... http://www.link.com Home: sjb...@ai... http://web2.airmail.net/sjbaker1 |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-13 16:42:13
|
Holger Waechtler wrote: > > ralf willenbacher wrote: > > > > attached are my thoughts on a bumpmapping extension for mesa. > > i would like to hear some opinions :> > > What do you think about implementing GL_EXT_texture_perturb_normal ?? > > GL_EXT_light_texture, GL_EXT_coordinate_space and GL_EXT_fragment_lighting > would have to be written first, but it's the better solution in my mind. > If you go this way, I would be glad if I could help implementing one or > two of those extensions. I have some concerns about implementing these extensions: 1. Will any of these extensions map onto current hardware? None that I know of. 2. There are patent issues associated with them. 3. They're somewhat complicated and I worry about implementation problems. 4. I don't know of any other GL that implements these extensions. I'd like to see an extension spec for NVIDIA's new per-pixel lighting feature. That might be more interesting/useful. -Brian |
From: Gareth H. <ga...@pr...> - 2000-06-13 16:26:23
|
Holger Waechtler wrote: > > ralf willenbacher wrote: > > > > attached are my thoughts on a bumpmapping extension for mesa. > > i would like to hear some opinions :> > > What do you think about implementing GL_EXT_texture_perturb_normal ?? > > GL_EXT_light_texture, GL_EXT_coordinate_space and GL_EXT_fragment_lighting > would have to be written first, but it's the better solution in my mind. > If you go this way, I would be glad if I could help implementing one or > two of those extensions. I still haven't heard back from SGI regarding permission to implement EXT_light_texture or EXT_fragment_lighting, but I haven't chased it up in a while... -- Gareth |
From: Holger W. <hwa...@ya...> - 2000-06-13 16:17:01
|
ralf willenbacher wrote: > > attached are my thoughts on a bumpmapping extension for mesa. > i would like to hear some opinions :> What do you think about implementing GL_EXT_texture_perturb_normal ?? GL_EXT_light_texture, GL_EXT_coordinate_space and GL_EXT_fragment_lighting would have to be written first, but it's the better solution in my mind. If you go this way, I would be glad if I could help implementing one or two of those extensions. - Holger |
From: Eero P. <epa...@ko...> - 2000-06-13 09:47:00
|
Andrew Richards wrote: > > I am the head programmer at CodePlay Limited, a company that is > developing a C compiler for PCs that is able to vectorize standard C > code to take advantage of MMX, 3DNow! and Streaming SIMD Extensions. I > would like to update Mesa to help VectorC take full advantage of these > processor features. This requires adding a few "hints" and "restrict"s > in the source code. These can be done with #defines so as not to affect > other compilers. > > I would like some advice - which parts of Mesa would benefit from MMX, > 3DNow! and SSE? I have tried running VTune on Mesa and failed to get it > to work. How do other Windows developers profile Mesa? > I have used VTune (3.0 if that matters) with my application, which used Mesa (Glide version). I was able to see the performance hotspots in Mesa. The Makefile.fx (int Mesa/src) contains those options which I needed in order to compile the dll (and the .pdb and .map) files which were suitable for this use. Using the 3dfx Voodoo2 the critical components of mesa were the transformation routines (Which are already available as X86 assembly), some of the FX setup routines. (I did not use the "fastpath" because I used fog(?)). In some cases the texture conversion/downloading might have some performance efects. Eero |
From: Andrew R. <a.r...@co...> - 2000-06-13 08:41:14
|
I am the head programmer at CodePlay Limited, a company that is developing a C compiler for PCs that is able to vectorize standard C code to take advantage of MMX, 3DNow! and Streaming SIMD Extensions. I would like to update Mesa to help VectorC take full advantage of these processor features. This requires adding a few "hints" and "restrict"s in the source code. These can be done with #defines so as not to affect other compilers. I would like some advice - which parts of Mesa would benefit from MMX, 3DNow! and SSE? I have tried running VTune on Mesa and failed to get it to work. How do other Windows developers profile Mesa? Andrew Richards CodePlay Limited - http://www.codeplay.com |
From: <se-...@un...> - 2000-06-13 00:37:13
|
Hi there! Please consider this 7-line program, 'test.cpp': #include <cstdlib> #include <GL/glut.h> int main(void) { return 0; } I'm working with Mesa on Linux, when compiling test.cpp with -ansi -pedantic i get: In file included from test.cpp:2: /usr/include/GL/glut.h:202: warning: declaration of `exit(int)' throws different exceptions /usr/include/stdlib.h:520: warning: previous declaration here glut.h declares exit(), why? I think that exit() dcl isn't needed to GLUT end-users; can you remove it on next release? If it is needed, glut.h should include stdlib.h... Thanks a lot. Mesa rocks. |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-13 00:26:26
|
ralf willenbacher wrote: > > > attached are my thoughts on a bumpmapping extension for mesa. > i would like to hear some opinions :> > i am thinking about poor loki entertainment when they > have to port a game that uses the directX bumpmapping function. I'm not familiar with DirectX's bumpmapping. Is your extension a copy of it? My comments follow. > i ripped this style from texgen_emboss from nvidia > > Name > MESA_perpixel_lighting (or MESA_anisotropic_blending) > > Extension String > GL_MESA_perpixel_lighting (or GL_MESA_anisotropic_blending) > > Dependencies > ARB_multitexture. > > Overview > The extension allows lumination per pixel of textures depending on 4 direction vectors. > Its done with a texture containing height differences of X and Y (U/V) in texture space. > The texture may contain a third component that specifies the reflection of the surface material. > > > Issues > > why depending on arb_multitexture ? > most hardware implements anisotropic lighting in the second texture stage and outputs > the luminance to the first. Huh? > it cannot be used as the first texture stage because > then someone might want to use the second texture stage for something else which would require > another pass in the driver (is this really that bad ?). could be used in single texture mode too > for flat triangles with carvings on it. I don't see any dependency on multitexture for this extension. > perpixel or anisotropic ? > dunno.. anisotropic will make some people to run for dictionaries. I'm not sure either name is really accurate. > New Procedures and Functions > > glLightDirectionMESA(GLfloat left, GLfloat right, GLfloat bottom, GLfloat top) > sets the direction the light is shining on the surface. > is clamped to -1.0/1.0 > negative numbers mean darken, positive brighten. > defaults to 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 You aren't defining a light direction so much as four blending weights. Perhaps glBlendWeightsMESA(GLfloat left, GLfloat right, GLfloat bottom, GLfloat top) > New Tokens > > GL_DXDYDL (or DUDVL ?) > defines a texture format to load an image containing delta X(U), delta Y(V) and > material luminance (L). > to be used in glTexImage2D > DX and DY are signed, L is unsigned. > > GL_DXDY (or DUDV) > the same without luminance. > > GL_FUNC_PERPIXEL_LIGHTING (or _ANISOTROPIC) > to be used in glBlendEquation. could be a problem bacause it clashes with glBlendFunc... I would think that this feature would be implemented in the texture environment, not in the fragment blending stage. I.e. GL_FUNC_PERPIXEL_LIGHTING would really be a glTexEnv mode. > for hardware that does not have native bumpmapping (oops.. um.. perpixel.. > anisotropic.. emboss.. nvidia magic) support an internal texture format might be > specified that contain 4 seperate luminance maps to be applied seperate to the > framebuffer/ first stage texture. could be left to the drivers though.. > > the following additions to the opengl specification could be wrong > because the 1.2 .pdf looks funny in xpdf. i will stick to name in braces > > Additions to Chapter 2 of the 1.2 Specification (OpenGL Operation) > > when glTexImage2D is called with either GL_DXDYL or GL_DXDY the incoming pixels will > be converted to byte size. when luminance is not given (GL_DXDY) a luminance of > 255 (full luminance) will be assumed. DX and DY will be clamped to -127/127 > when a border is given the bordercolor will be taken as DX,DY,L. alpha will be ignored. It's against the grain of OpenGL to specify the internal storage format for something like this. I'd just say that the image is stored internally with values in [-1, 1] and indeterminate precision. > Additions to Chapter 3 of the 1.2 Specification (Rasterization) > > in single texture mode where the blendequation is GL_FUNC_PERPIXEL the lumination > will be applied to > the frame buffer like a GL_LUMINANCE texture. > > the luminance from the GL_FUNC_PERPIXEL blending equation is calculated like this: > incoming texture is of type GL_DXDYL, left, right, top, bottom is set by glLightDirectionMESA > > for every pixel > > dX = DX / 127.0 > dY = DY / 127.0 > l = L / 255.0 > > luminance = 1.0 ; start with no luminance > > if(dX >= 0.0) luminance += left*dX > else luminance += right*(-dX) > if(dy >= 0.0) luminance += top*dY > else luminance += bottom*(-dY) > > luminance *= l; > > the destination pixel RGBA > R*l, G*l, B*l, Alpha is unchanged. > > in the multitexture case the destination will be the first texture stage.. Here's how I would phrase it: let dx, dy = the sampled texture value luminance = 1.0 if(dX >= 0.0) luminance += left*dX else luminance += right*(-dX) if(dy >= 0.0) luminance += top*dY else luminance += bottom*(-dY) luminance *= l; let (R, G, B, A) be the texture unit's incoming fragment color. The outgoing fragment color (R', G', B', A') is then: R' = R * l G' = G * l B' = B * l A' = A That said, however, I don't see how this extension is really going to work. I think I can see this working on a planer polygon, with the four blend weights getting recalculated depending on the surface orientation. But how is it supposed to work for a non-planar surface? The luminance calculation has to be dependent on the polygon's orientation with respect to the light position. Either the DXDV data or the blend weights would have to be modified per polygon. Or maybe determine which parts of the texture get mapped to which triangles and modify the DX DY values accordingly (sounds hard). Finally, is it your expectation that this feature can be implemented in terms of current hardware? Or, is it supposed to be a software solution. I don't think either is practical. -Brian |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-09 14:24:26
|
"Jacob (=Jouk) Jansen" wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just found this in the VMS newsgroup > > I am also now soliciting updates and new submissions for the OpenVMS > Freeware V5 release. Submissions for the Freeware can be sent to > ope...@co... -- please note this email address is for > submissions only and cannot accept requests for the field test kits. > > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- > Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com > > > Shall I point them to the latest release of Mesa to include that on this > freeware CD which will be distributed for free with VMS7.3 (if it comes out) > and will be placed on the web. It surebale will make it easier for VMS users > to get Mesa on their systems. Fine with me. -Brian |
From: <jo...@hr...> - 2000-06-09 09:07:54
|
Hi all, I just found this in the VMS newsgroup I am also now soliciting updates and new submissions for the OpenVMS Freeware V5 release. Submissions for the Freeware can be sent to ope...@co... -- please note this email address is for submissions only and cannot accept requests for the field test kits. --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com Shall I point them to the latest release of Mesa to include that on this freeware CD which will be distributed for free with VMS7.3 (if it comes out) and will be placed on the web. It surebale will make it easier for VMS users to get Mesa on their systems. Jouk Ceterum censeo tertium millennium post Christum natum anno MMI incepturum esse >------------------------------------------------------------------------------< Jouk Jansen jo...@hr... Technische Universiteit Delft tttttttttt uu uu ddddddd Nationaal centrum voor HREM tttttttttt uu uu dd dd Rotterdamseweg 137 tt uu uu dd dd 2628 AL Delft tt uu uu dd dd Nederland tt uu uu dd dd tel. 31-15-2781536 tt uuuuuuu ddddddd >------------------------------------------------------------------------------< |
From: ralf w. <b_...@gm...> - 2000-06-06 09:43:12
|
attached are my thoughts on a bumpmapping extension for mesa. i would like to hear some opinions :> i am thinking about poor loki entertainment when they have to port a game that uses the directX bumpmapping function. -- ralf willenbacher (bj...@oc...) oops.. mesa3d is now at sourceforge.. |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-05 15:05:39
|
Andreas Ehliar wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 07:32:04AM -0600, Brian Paul wrote: > > > > ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END_AND_FLUSH() would be the correct macro. > > I'm patching the 3.2 and 3.3 trees. > > What is the difference between ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END_AND_FLUSH > and ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END ? ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END_AND_FLUSH checks if there's any data in the vertex buffer. If there is, we first flush (render) the vertex data before proceeding. -Brian |
From: Andreas E. <eh...@ly...> - 2000-06-05 14:57:03
|
On Mon, Jun 05, 2000 at 07:32:04AM -0600, Brian Paul wrote: > > ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END_AND_FLUSH() would be the correct macro. > I'm patching the 3.2 and 3.3 trees. What is the difference between ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END_AND_FLUSH and ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END ? regards Andreas Ehliar |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-05 14:43:33
|
"Jacob (=Jouk) Jansen" wrote: > > Hi, > > I just got a notice that the directory > vms > is missing in the 3.2 distribution. Probably this directory was not included > when making the distribution from the CVS. The directory is however > essential when compiling Mesa on a VMS-system. I've now fixed the Makefiles which build the tar files. Thanks. -Brian |
From: Brian P. <br...@pr...> - 2000-06-05 14:34:18
|
Daniel Vogel wrote: > > hi` > > according to the specs (OpenGL 1.2.1 specs, page 19) calling glFog > between glBegin/End should generate an INVALID_OPERATION error. Or at > least this is how I read the specs ;-) I attached a small patch to Mesa > CVS that does the check but am not sure whether I call the right macro > there. ASSERT_OUTSIDE_BEGIN_END_AND_FLUSH() would be the correct macro. I'm patching the 3.2 and 3.3 trees. Thanks! -Brian |
From: <jo...@du...> - 2000-06-05 09:14:35
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Hi, I just got a notice that the directory vms is missing in the 3.2 distribution. Probably this directory was not included when making the distribution from the CVS. The directory is however essential when compiling Mesa on a VMS-system. Jouk Ceterum censeo tertium millennium post Christum natum anno MMI incepturum esse >------------------------------------------------------------------------------< Jouk Jansen jo...@hr... Technische Universiteit Delft tttttttttt uu uu ddddddd Nationaal centrum voor HREM tttttttttt uu uu dd dd Rotterdamseweg 137 tt uu uu dd dd 2628 AL Delft tt uu uu dd dd Nederland tt uu uu dd dd tel. 31-15-2781536 tt uuuuuuu ddddddd >------------------------------------------------------------------------------< |
From: Daniel V. <vo...@lo...> - 2000-06-05 00:57:30
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hi` according to the specs (OpenGL 1.2.1 specs, page 19) calling glFog between glBegin/End should generate an INVALID_OPERATION error. Or at least this is how I read the specs ;-) I attached a small patch to Mesa CVS that does the check but am not sure whether I call the right macro there. -- Daniel Vogel Programmer Loki Entertainment Software |