mentalunix-developers Mailing List for Mentalinux GNU/Linux (Page 6)

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Re: [Mentalunix-developers] MentalUNIX website-- [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: Clinton E. <men...@cr...> - 2000-12-27 23:12:16

According to the latest news over at sourceforge. SCP is down for a 
while. Try tommorow.

On 27 Dec 2000, at 13:26, CyDust wrote:

> Gotta a slight problem, having troubles with scp. I have two ideas of
> how to fix this. I can email or post a tarball of the site, and
> someone with admin privs can upload it, or MentalSpice, can you send
> me the uploading info from sourceforge, I might be doing something
> wrong, but not sure. Since linuxstart is discontinuing free email
> service, i will lose that info soon.
> 
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ASCII ART
*********
        *
*********
"Ain't it l33t?"
All views expressed are IMHO.
Because MHO is better than yours.
unknown_lamer

Re: [Mentalunix-developers] Proposed feature set...

From: Clinton E. <men...@cr...> - 2000-12-27 23:12:16

> To quickly determine wheather hanging on this list will be of any use
> to me I will now present a list of features that I insist on
> implementing in this "distribution". Otherwise I will unsubscribe. I
> must insist on these features because without them, this distribution
> will be as useless to me as all the others and not even worth my time
> much less my effort.
> 
> Categories: 
> P - performance
> U - usability
> M - Maintainability
> L - Learnability
> S - Security 
> R - Reliability
> 
> Demanded features: 
> 
> P - No binary distributions! Argument: When I installed Mandrake 6.5
> my Athalon had a BogoMips rating of 799. When I recompiled the kernel
> it jumped to 1,500. =) Therefore all software should be compiled by
> and for the host processor. 
> 
If you read the mpkg spec, you would notice on of its "features" is 
that it will be able to grab the source and recompile and entire 
package tree...so, porting to new architectures would be easy(that is 
my justification). Just tell the tool to recompile all of the 
Mental(?) packages, and you have a port. If some of them fail, you 
know the exact packages you need to worry about fixing. But, 
compiling all of the system software during install != good. 
Actually, it is bad. The time involved would not be very nice, not to 
mention some things like ACE or CORBA that require HUGE amounts of 
ram to compile(500+ MB) and disk space(2+ GB during compile). So, the 
distribution ISOs would be in binary form(i386, i486, i586, i686, 
?PPC?), but you could grab a source disc and use the GUI or command 
line tool to recompile your entire tree. Also, on something like the 
i386, kernels that are optimized for different systems(486/586/2+GB 
RAM/SMP/etc) will be included. All in all, I think that meets your 
requirement.

> U/L - Eliminate the use of "Hackish" and use good dictionary ENGLISH
> in as many contexts as possible. Argument: One of the hardest things
> to learn in UNIX is the massive numbers of acronyms and abreviations.
> Even in DOS I have written a batch program called "memory" because
> that is the word that I *think* when I want to learn about the memory
> situation of my computer. While you may argue that "mem" is easier to
> type, it is harder to THINK because I must translate what I think,
> which is always MEMORY, to mem. Its an extra step that *should* be
> avoided.
> 
This is where the newbie manpages come in. It's all going to be 
linked up to linuxnewbie(I'll talk to sensei when we get ready to 
start it) database. We might as well add a whole newbie system in 
with it..make a new shell based on bash that has newbie command 
aliases? Let me explain.
You type memory. It loads mem. Well, if we just aliased it, you would 
have a huge list of aliases, and you would think memory was the 
actual command. So, with a special file..maybe .newbierc with the 
alias in it. Here could be a sample session:

user@host:~$ memory
user, the actual command is mem.
type: nman mem for help
user@host:~$ mem
You have xxxx MB of free ram....

The user could learn easily that way, and the commands would be more 
intuitive. And, the user doesn't become dependent on the 
shortcuts..after learning the command, they are a competent gnu/linux 
user.


> U/M - Seperate progarms out and make things as easy to configure as
> DOS software. For example instead of putting parts of programs all
> over the system in such a way that no human can maintain all of them.
> (as there are no clues as to what belongs to what nor indication of
> even what resources a given program might actually be using...)
> Therefore I demand that irrespective of how storage is allocated to
> jobs, all of say "Apache" reside in one single directory, say
> /programs/netservers/apache/ . Which would *everything* that is
> exclusively a part of the Apache webserver.
> 
No /programs, but there will be a /opt/apps. In /opt/apps, there will 
be symlinks to every program on the system(or rather packages). Here 
is an example:

/opt/apps/apache
...bin
...etc

and stuff like that. The app is centralized(by package name). So, you 
can just cd into the apps dir, and then the appname, and see all of 
the file associated with it. Of course, the dir would be read-only, 
and could be reconstructed if root trashed it by running some rebuild 
command in mpkg.

> S - I have no understanding of "runlevels" therefore they, and other
> unused features like them, should be eliminated. Instead the system
> will be organized in such a way that it is easy to start and stop
> desired or undesired functions at will and with the greatest possible
> ease.
> 
No app planned, but it is an interesting idea. Maybe a program like 
newbie xinit? A newbie init front end in Gtk that had options like 
this(to change runlevels):

[] Single user mode(runlevel S)
[] Text only mode(runlevel 3)
[] graphical Mode(runlevel 5)
etc...
(ok) (exit)

imagine the [] are checkboxes, and the () are buttons. They select 
single user mode, and it would show this:

To switch to Single user mode on the console, type:
telinit S
In single user mode, only the root superuser can be logged in.
This mode is only for usage by experts. It is designed to make
system maitence easy, or for usage after a bad crash, if one or more 
of your drives has died.
switch modes?
(ok) (no!)

I think it would make a good program. I could sketch it out in 
glade(just the GUI, not code) later.

> R - Better console managment. The console should be treated as any
> other device in the system and should be protected from any
> possibility of dissruption by any program. The "reset" command should
> be unneccessary. 
> 
Really hard to do that. Programs like Xemacs on the console change 
the cursor for internal management. Please explain further what you 
mean exactly.



> I hope others on this list will add to these requirements. I want to
> finally see a GOOD operating system for a change. I HATE ALL THESE
> SHITTY OSES!!! =(
> 
> 
> -- 
> If a "bug" in one program causes another to fail, the OS is at fault.
> http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.
> 
> Unsolicited "spam" messages to this account are subject to usage fees
> and in cases of fraud or egregeous abuse, prosecution.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mentalunix-developers mailing list
> Men...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/mentalunix-developers
> 



---------------------
ASCII ART
*********
        *
*********
"Ain't it l33t?"
All views expressed are IMHO.
Because MHO is better than yours.
unknown_lamer

Re: [Mentalunix-developers] More requirements:

From: Clinton E. <men...@cr...> - 2000-12-27 23:12:16

On 27 Dec 2000, at 15:20, Alan Grimes wrote:

> UL - NO POINTLESS REDUNDANCY. When you have a good text editor that is
> ESASY TO LEARN and SIMPLE TO OPERATE. You don't need VI or anything
> else. Therefore this distribution should maintain only one GOOD
> version of anything.
>
? I am confused. Users need choice. The base system will either have 
nano or mcedit, to avoid the emacs / vi war. Then, vi and emacs will 
both be optional packages.
 
> M - Good mechanisms for version controll should be implemented and
> excessive BLOAT such as the X windowing system should be removed and
> distributed as SEPERATE packages. NOT EVERYTHING IS LINUX, THERE IS A
> SEPERATE CATEGORY FOR *PROGRAMS* THAT AREN'T LINUX. Don't cram
> everything into one product. =(
> 
A distribution is more than just the OS. It is the suite of programs 
that make the OS(which is GNU + linux in our case) useful. Programs 
like X will be optional. Like in most distributions. Of course, our 
install won't be very newbie friendly until I can do some decent X 
programming..but when it is, there will be a new user install(that 
installs the stuff the average user would want..execept they would 
choose from home, business, development, or server installs) and a 
custom install(choose all of the tasks / individual packages if you 
like). So, even an automated install wouldn't install everything like 
some do(*cough*mandrake*cough*), but just what the user should need 
for their install choice. Because why should a Home or business user 
need Apache at all?
> -- 
> If a "bug" in one program causes another to fail, the OS is at fault.
> http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.
> 
> Unsolicited "spam" messages to this account are subject to usage fees
> and in cases of fraud or egregeous abuse, prosecution.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mentalunix-developers mailing list
> Men...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/mentalunix-developers
> 



---------------------
ASCII ART
*********
        *
*********
"Ain't it l33t?"
All views expressed are IMHO.
Because MHO is better than yours.
unknown_lamer

[Mentalunix-developers] MentalUNIX website-- [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: CyDust <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 21:26:52

Gotta a slight problem, having troubles with scp. I have two ideas of how to fix this. I can email or post a tarball of the site, and someone with admin privs can upload it, or MentalSpice, can you send me the uploading info from sourceforge, I might be doing something wrong, but not sure. Since linuxstart is discontinuing free email service, i will lose that info soon.

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[Mentalunix-developers] More requirements:

From: Alan G. <ala...@st...> - 2000-12-27 20:18:24

UL - NO POINTLESS REDUNDANCY. When you have a good text editor that is
ESASY TO LEARN and SIMPLE TO OPERATE. You don't need VI or anything
else. Therefore this distribution should maintain only one GOOD version
of anything.

M - Good mechanisms for version controll should be implemented and
excessive BLOAT such as the X windowing system should be removed and
distributed as SEPERATE packages. NOT EVERYTHING IS LINUX, THERE IS A
SEPERATE CATEGORY FOR *PROGRAMS* THAT AREN'T LINUX. Don't cram
everything into one product. =(

-- 
If a "bug" in one program causes another to fail, the OS is at fault.
http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.

Unsolicited "spam" messages to this account are subject to usage fees
and
in cases of fraud or egregeous abuse, prosecution.

[Mentalunix-developers] Proposed feature set...

From: Alan G. <ala...@st...> - 2000-12-27 20:13:01

To quickly determine wheather hanging on this list will be of any use to
me I will now present a list of features that I insist on implementing
in this "distribution". Otherwise I will unsubscribe. I must insist on
these features because without them, this distribution will be as
useless to me as all the others and not even worth my time much less my
effort.

Categories: 
P - performance
U - usability
M - Maintainability
L - Learnability
S - Security 
R - Reliability

Demanded features: 

P - No binary distributions! Argument: When I installed Mandrake 6.5 my
Athalon had a BogoMips rating of 799. When I recompiled the kernel it
jumped to 1,500. =) Therefore all software should be compiled by and for
the host processor. 

U/L - Eliminate the use of "Hackish" and use good dictionary ENGLISH in
as many contexts as possible. Argument: One of the hardest things to
learn in UNIX is the massive numbers of acronyms and abreviations. Even
in DOS I have written a batch program called "memory" because that is
the word that I *think* when I want to learn about the memory situation
of my computer. While you may argue that "mem" is easier to type, it is
harder to THINK because I must translate what I think, which is always
MEMORY, to mem. Its an extra step that *should* be avoided.

U/M - Seperate progarms out and make things as easy to configure as DOS
software. For example instead of putting parts of programs all over the
system in such a way that no human can maintain all of them. (as there
are no clues as to what belongs to what nor indication of even what
resources a given program might actually be using...) Therefore I demand
that irrespective of how storage is allocated to jobs, all of say
"Apache" reside in one single directory, say
/programs/netservers/apache/ . Which would *everything* that is
exclusively a part of the Apache webserver.

S - I have no understanding of "runlevels" therefore they, and other
unused features like them, should be eliminated. Instead the system will
be organized in such a way that it is easy to start and stop desired or
undesired functions at will and with the greatest possible ease.

R - Better console managment. The console should be treated as any other
device in the system and should be protected from any possibility of
dissruption by any program. The "reset" command should be unneccessary. 

I hope others on this list will add to these requirements. I want to
finally see a GOOD operating system for a change. I HATE ALL THESE
SHITTY OSES!!! =(


-- 
If a "bug" in one program causes another to fail, the OS is at fault.
http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.

Unsolicited "spam" messages to this account are subject to usage fees
and
in cases of fraud or egregeous abuse, prosecution.

[Mentalunix-developers] Re: greetings [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: autwulf <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 20:08:12

VB is definitely evil. :-) Alas it was a requirement for my major.

I've been playing around with linux off and on for about a year and half. My first taste of x was actually on my old mac running a unix emulator. That didn't work too well, and I had no idea how to do ANYTHING! In college my first programming experience was in Solaris, so I learned a tad of Unix there... I ran Red Hat 5.2 for a little (it came with a For Dummies book on linux i bought), but my fav has to be Mandrake. I've installed Corel and Storm Linux, but I really missed some things like Xconfigurator. I've also tried running Phat Linux on my windows partition, but I had the hardest time getting it to recognize my nic.

I have very little programming experience. Just some introductory classes in C++... nothing really particular to any operating system, just learning the basics. I don't think i will be able to contribute much on the programming side. I might be able to help test things, but I definitely consider myself a newbie. :) i'd like to learn more though, and I think this will be a good opportunity to do that.

i like designing graphics... I'll try to come up with some ideas tonight. later

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[Mentalunix-developers] Re: greetings [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: nullpuppy <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 18:32:09

Greetings autwulf. I'm sure we can find somewhere for you to help. C++ will be valuable in programming for the project, but unless we do something windows related, VB isn't going to be any help. (vb==evil language!) 

How much linux experience do you have (# of years/months/weeks/ and/or days!?!) 
What linux distributions have you used?
What is your favorite distribution so far?
and lastly, how much programming experience do you have?

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[Mentalunix-developers] Re: Slashdot Effect [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: nullpuppy <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 18:28:28

ok, MentaLinux sounds good, post ideas, and give me a final decision soon so i can change the image.

Post ideas for new name. We will vote Friday and Saturday for new names, and the site will be updated sunday.

New name submittions should be posted here, or emailed to me or MentalSpice or The_micea by thursday night/friday morning.

May the force of creativity and individuality be with you, and good luck!!

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[Mentalunix-developers] greetings [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: autwulf <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 15:45:43

Hi all. i'm interested in contributing to your project. i'm not much of a programmer (i had like 2 semesters of beginning C++ and a few weeks of VB... i'm a business major), but I'd like to help in any way possible. i'm still fairly new to linux, but I'd like to learn. i saw the club on /., and just want to know how i can help.

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[Mentalunix-developers] Re: Slashdot Effect [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: devnullness2001 <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 04:21:05

MentalX is prolly taken by something no doubt. Keeping UNIX in the name IS a bad idea no matter how you capilize the letters. I vote for MentaLinux (not to be confused with MentalLinux which IMHO looks too wierd)

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Re: [Mentalunix-developers] Slashdot Effect [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: Alan G. <ala...@st...> - 2000-12-27 01:50:29

Mentalspice wrote:
 
> the linux distro for crazy people!).

I need one of those. =P

I don't think fixing linux is possible but I'm gonna stay on the list
for a whilest to see what happens... 

Here are some good OSen: 

Minix   < Its actually simple enough to figure out! =)
Plan9   < It uses a more elegant driver structure; no more lame IOCTL
AmigaOS < It doesn't need lame hardware to make it reliable. ;)

-- 
If a "bug" in one program causes another to fail, the OS is at fault.
http://users.erols.com/alangrimes/  <my website.

Unsolicited "spam" messages to this account are subject to usage fees
and
in cases of fraud or egregeous abuse, prosecution.

[Mentalunix-developers] Slashdot Effect [Yahoo! Clubs: mentalunix]

From: Mentalspice <clu...@ya...> - 2000-12-27 01:16:05

My mail is being slashdotted from a bunch of Visitor request for informations. One of the important messages I got was that UNIx is trademarked. I knew that all along, but assumed it would be no problem(since it is part of a larger word / Maybe it isn;t unix, change the capitatlization to MentaLUNIX and it is LUNIX, the linux distro for crazy people!). But I really do think we need to thing about changing the name of the project to something like MentalX or MentalLINUX or something.

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