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Re: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...?
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From: Michael D. <md...@st...> - 2014-01-16 13:35:45
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Yes, there's room. This is the link that Google gives me for the calendar: https://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/79hk8jhvlks8jn8ds4ri1e6q4g%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic Let me know whether that works... Mike On 01/15/2014 11:42 PM, Tony Yu wrote: > Is there room for a lurker in the hangout? If so, is there a link for > joining the hangout? (I tried using the hangout calendar link from > awhile back, but I couldn't get my google calendar to recognize it.) > > Cheers, > -Tony > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Michael Droettboom <md...@st... > <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: > > On 01/14/2014 03:49 PM, Chris Beaumont wrote: >> I have another long-simmering feature request along these lines: >> if Matplotlib were to evolve a formal DOM-like figure structure >> like mentioned above, it would be cool if this structure retained >> more semantic information about the visualization itself. By >> this, I mean that many high-level commands like hist, scatter, >> etc. spawn a bunch of low level artists like rectangles and >> circles. After these methods exit, it's hard/impossible to >> introspect a Figure and diagnose that it, for example, is a >> histogram and not a bar chart. > > I agree, this would be very nice to have, but is (obviously) a > much bigger step from what we currently have in matplotlib. Along > those lines, if the "frontend" (i.e. the pylab interface and even > the OO interface) basically generate a tree, then you could > serialize that tree (here XML would be a great fit, don't knock > it), and even non-Python based tools could transform it into > something else. > > >> >> Retaining a better high-level description of a plot (which >> probably amounts to creating more compound artist types) would >> make it easier to build tools like mpld3 and other cool things >> that involve runtime editing or optimization of tree-like data >> structures. > > Agreed. > > No argument against this at all from me -- but knowing how much > work this would be, the obstacle there is just finding the time to > do it. It would be a significant rewrite... > > Mike > > >> >> chris >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Jacob Vanderplas >> <ja...@cs... <mailto:ja...@cs...>> wrote: >> >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Michael Droettboom >> <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: >> >> >> I hope all of the above makes sense... >> >> >> Definitely makes sense: what I've built-up in mpld3 is >> essentially something that mimics this sort of visitor >> pattern, though it misses some things because of the >> draw-time difficulties you mention. >> I think a two-stage draw() would be a _very_ helpful >> restructure. Currently, I'm forced to achieve this result by >> writing a png to a throwaway byte-stream... >> Jake >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> On 01/14/2014 01:30 PM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote: >>> Thanks - we'll make it happen at some point. >>> >>> Perhaps I can give the seed for a discussion: the stuff >>> I've been doing with mpld3 is a lot of fun, but it's >>> fundamentally limited by the fact that I have to dig >>> around the internals of the figure object to find the >>> relevant information to construct a plot representation. >>> I may be able to do the same thing by creating a >>> backend, but the problem is that the draw() methods of >>> most objects call the renderer with no reference to >>> whether the points lie in the data space or figure >>> space: that is, paths and points are usually specified >>> in figure/pixel coordinates or some transformed version >>> thereof, which makes it near impossible to construct >>> interactive representations absent Python kernel callbacks. >>> >>> What I'd love to see is some enhancement of the backend >>> framework where there are some extra flags and >>> information passed to the renderer: i.e. for each draw >>> command, we need to know whether the drawn object should >>> be linked to static figure coordinates or to dynamic >>> axes/data coordinates. >>> >>> I've been in touch with Cyrille Rossant from the vispy >>> team, Chris Beaumont from the Glue team, and Matt >>> Sundwuist from the plotly team, all of whom asked if >>> there might be a way to use what I've done with mpld3 to >>> enable matplotlib to export into their own front-end >>> format. I didn't start mpld3 with that sort of >>> extensibility in mind, but I'm starting to invest some >>> time thinking about how to design that. >>> >>> With the current matplotlib package, I think there are >>> two ways to accomplish it: one is to create a general >>> backend-like interface based on the figure introspection >>> that mpld3 currently uses. The artist elements in each >>> figure contain enough information to be able to infer >>> whether the elements should move & zoom with the axes or >>> not. The problem is, a lot of elements (like legends, >>> axes aspects, etc.) are not fully established until the >>> draw() command is called, so there are a few ugly hacks >>> required to make it happen. >>> >>> The other option is to use an even uglier hack, and wrap >>> the current backend framework with an object that >>> somehow links back into the figure and infers from the >>> draw_*() commands whether the path/point/marker/etc. >>> should be drawn in static figure coordinates or in >>> dynamic axes coordinates. I've started a simple >>> prototype backend translator which has a renderer class >>> that uses ``inspect`` back-trace the stack and >>> accomplish this: It's really ugly, and I'm not >>> particularly proud about it, but I think it's the >>> current best way to accomplish the desired behavior. >>> >>> Ugly hacks aside, I think all of this points to a >>> general desire for a new type of backend-like hook that >>> can export dynamic plot elements in data coordinates, >>> and static plot elements in figure coordinates. An >>> enhancement in that direction could pave the way for a >>> lot of interesting interactive front-ends to matplotlib >>> figures. >>> >>> Anyway - if any of you have suggestions or responses to >>> this, I'd love to hear them! Thanks, >>> Jake >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Michael Droettboom >>> <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: >>> >>> Jake: I'd definitely like to get you into one of >>> these calls at some point. If you're able to pop in >>> late, that would still be great -- or we can save >>> that for another date. Trying to get Japan, three >>> NA timezones and the UK all together is challenging ;) >>> >>> In any event, with Thomas, Ben, Michiel and myself >>> confirmed, I think that's enough to go ahead, and >>> hopefully others who have yet to respond can join as >>> well. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> On 01/14/2014 11:57 AM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote: >>>> I'll probably not be able to swing 6am on the west >>>> coast, but other folks are more important for this >>>> call, I think :) >>>> Jake >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Benjamin Root >>>> <ben...@ou... <mailto:ben...@ou...>> wrote: >>>> >>>> That would actually work a little bit better >>>> for me... I just have to remember to get into >>>> work a little bit earlier. >>>> >>>> Ben >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Michael >>>> Droettboom <md...@st... >>>> <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm fine with starting the meeting an hour >>>> early. How about others? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> On 01/14/2014 04:57 AM, Michiel de Hoon wrote: >>>> > I can join this Thursday if we start with >>>> the discussion on timers. >>>> > If we can start 1 hour earlier (14:00 >>>> UTC, 9 am ET, 23:00 in Japan) that would be >>>> even better. >>>> > -Michiel. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -------------------------------------------- >>>> > On Mon, 1/13/14, Michael Droettboom >>>> <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Subject: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...? >>>> > To: >>>> "mat...@li... >>>> <mailto:mat...@li...>" >>>> <mat...@li... >>>> <mailto:mat...@li...>> >>>> > Date: Monday, January 13, 2014, 11:36 AM >>>> > >>>> > It's probably a good time to schedule >>>> > another matplotlib Google Hangout. >>>> > >>>> > Is this Thursday at 1500 UTC (10 am ET) >>>> too short notice for >>>> > the usual >>>> > candidates? >>>> > >>>> > I know there was discussion of getting >>>> Michiel de Hoon on >>>> > today (which I >>>> > just saw, unfortunately). Is there >>>> another time in the >>>> > future that >>>> > works for you, Michiel? >>>> > >>>> > Mike >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > >>>> > _ >>>> > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ >>>> > _ ._ _ >>>> > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ >>>> |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>>> > >>>> > http://www.droettboom.com >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in >>>> Enterprise Cloud Services. >>>> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing >>>> CenturyLink Cloud >>>> > For >>>> > Critical Workloads, Development >>>> Environments & >>>> > Everything In Between. >>>> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>>> > >>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>>> > Mat...@li... >>>> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >>>> > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _ >>>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >>>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>>> >>>> http://www.droettboom.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise >>>> Cloud Services. >>>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing >>>> CenturyLink Cloud For >>>> Critical Workloads, Development >>>> Environments & Everything In Between. >>>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>>> Mat...@li... >>>> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise >>>> Cloud Services. >>>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing >>>> CenturyLink Cloud For >>>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & >>>> Everything In Between. >>>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>>> Mat...@li... >>>> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _ >>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>> >>> http://www.droettboom.com >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> _ >> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >> >> http://www.droettboom.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. >> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For >> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In >> Between. >> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >> Mat...@li... >> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ************************************ >> Chris Beaumont >> Graduate Student >> Institute for Astronomy >> University of Hawaii at Manoa >> 2680 Woodlawn Drive >> Honolulu, HI 96822 >> www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont <http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/%7Ebeaumont> >> ************************************ > > > -- > _ > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | > > http://www.droettboom.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > Mat...@li... > <mailto:Mat...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > > -- _ |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | http://www.droettboom.com |
