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Re: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...?
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From: Tony Yu <ts...@gm...> - 2014-01-16 04:42:58
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Is there room for a lurker in the hangout? If so, is there a link for joining the hangout? (I tried using the hangout calendar link from awhile back, but I couldn't get my google calendar to recognize it.) Cheers, -Tony On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Michael Droettboom <md...@st...> wrote: > On 01/14/2014 03:49 PM, Chris Beaumont wrote: > > I have another long-simmering feature request along these lines: if > Matplotlib were to evolve a formal DOM-like figure structure like mentioned > above, it would be cool if this structure retained more semantic > information about the visualization itself. By this, I mean that many > high-level commands like hist, scatter, etc. spawn a bunch of low level > artists like rectangles and circles. After these methods exit, it's > hard/impossible to introspect a Figure and diagnose that it, for example, > is a histogram and not a bar chart. > > > I agree, this would be very nice to have, but is (obviously) a much bigger > step from what we currently have in matplotlib. Along those lines, if the > "frontend" (i.e. the pylab interface and even the OO interface) basically > generate a tree, then you could serialize that tree (here XML would be a > great fit, don't knock it), and even non-Python based tools could transform > it into something else. > > > > Retaining a better high-level description of a plot (which probably > amounts to creating more compound artist types) would make it easier to > build tools like mpld3 and other cool things that involve runtime editing > or optimization of tree-like data structures. > > > Agreed. > > No argument against this at all from me -- but knowing how much work this > would be, the obstacle there is just finding the time to do it. It would > be a significant rewrite... > > Mike > > > > chris > > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Jacob Vanderplas < > ja...@cs...> wrote: > >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Michael Droettboom <md...@st...>wrote: >> >>> >>> I hope all of the above makes sense... >>> >> >> Definitely makes sense: what I've built-up in mpld3 is essentially >> something that mimics this sort of visitor pattern, though it misses some >> things because of the draw-time difficulties you mention. >> I think a two-stage draw() would be a _very_ helpful restructure. >> Currently, I'm forced to achieve this result by writing a png to a >> throwaway byte-stream... >> Jake >> >> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> On 01/14/2014 01:30 PM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote: >>> >>> Thanks - we'll make it happen at some point. >>> >>> Perhaps I can give the seed for a discussion: the stuff I've been >>> doing with mpld3 is a lot of fun, but it's fundamentally limited by the >>> fact that I have to dig around the internals of the figure object to find >>> the relevant information to construct a plot representation. I may be able >>> to do the same thing by creating a backend, but the problem is that the >>> draw() methods of most objects call the renderer with no reference to >>> whether the points lie in the data space or figure space: that is, paths >>> and points are usually specified in figure/pixel coordinates or some >>> transformed version thereof, which makes it near impossible to construct >>> interactive representations absent Python kernel callbacks. >>> >>> What I'd love to see is some enhancement of the backend framework >>> where there are some extra flags and information passed to the renderer: >>> i.e. for each draw command, we need to know whether the drawn object should >>> be linked to static figure coordinates or to dynamic axes/data coordinates. >>> >>> I've been in touch with Cyrille Rossant from the vispy team, Chris >>> Beaumont from the Glue team, and Matt Sundwuist from the plotly team, all >>> of whom asked if there might be a way to use what I've done with mpld3 to >>> enable matplotlib to export into their own front-end format. I didn't >>> start mpld3 with that sort of extensibility in mind, but I'm starting to >>> invest some time thinking about how to design that. >>> >>> With the current matplotlib package, I think there are two ways to >>> accomplish it: one is to create a general backend-like interface based on >>> the figure introspection that mpld3 currently uses. The artist elements in >>> each figure contain enough information to be able to infer whether the >>> elements should move & zoom with the axes or not. The problem is, a lot of >>> elements (like legends, axes aspects, etc.) are not fully established until >>> the draw() command is called, so there are a few ugly hacks required to >>> make it happen. >>> >>> The other option is to use an even uglier hack, and wrap the current >>> backend framework with an object that somehow links back into the figure >>> and infers from the draw_*() commands whether the path/point/marker/etc. >>> should be drawn in static figure coordinates or in dynamic axes >>> coordinates. I've started a simple prototype backend translator which has a >>> renderer class that uses ``inspect`` back-trace the stack and accomplish >>> this: It's really ugly, and I'm not particularly proud about it, but I >>> think it's the current best way to accomplish the desired behavior. >>> >>> Ugly hacks aside, I think all of this points to a general desire for a >>> new type of backend-like hook that can export dynamic plot elements in data >>> coordinates, and static plot elements in figure coordinates. An >>> enhancement in that direction could pave the way for a lot of interesting >>> interactive front-ends to matplotlib figures. >>> >>> Anyway - if any of you have suggestions or responses to this, I'd love >>> to hear them! Thanks, >>> Jake >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Michael Droettboom <md...@st...>wrote: >>> >>>> Jake: I'd definitely like to get you into one of these calls at some >>>> point. If you're able to pop in late, that would still be great -- or we >>>> can save that for another date. Trying to get Japan, three NA timezones >>>> and the UK all together is challenging ;) >>>> >>>> In any event, with Thomas, Ben, Michiel and myself confirmed, I think >>>> that's enough to go ahead, and hopefully others who have yet to respond can >>>> join as well. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> On 01/14/2014 11:57 AM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote: >>>> >>>> I'll probably not be able to swing 6am on the west coast, but other >>>> folks are more important for this call, I think :) >>>> Jake >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Benjamin Root <ben...@ou...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That would actually work a little bit better for me... I just have to >>>>> remember to get into work a little bit earlier. >>>>> >>>>> Ben >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Michael Droettboom <md...@st...>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm fine with starting the meeting an hour early. How about others? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> On 01/14/2014 04:57 AM, Michiel de Hoon wrote: >>>>>> > I can join this Thursday if we start with the discussion on timers. >>>>>> > If we can start 1 hour earlier (14:00 UTC, 9 am ET, 23:00 in Japan) >>>>>> that would be even better. >>>>>> > -Michiel. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -------------------------------------------- >>>>>> > On Mon, 1/13/14, Michael Droettboom <md...@st...> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Subject: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...? >>>>>> > To: "mat...@li..." < >>>>>> mat...@li...> >>>>>> > Date: Monday, January 13, 2014, 11:36 AM >>>>>> > >>>>>> > It's probably a good time to schedule >>>>>> > another matplotlib Google Hangout. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Is this Thursday at 1500 UTC (10 am ET) too short notice for >>>>>> > the usual >>>>>> > candidates? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I know there was discussion of getting Michiel de Hoon on >>>>>> > today (which I >>>>>> > just saw, unfortunately). Is there another time in the >>>>>> > future that >>>>>> > works for you, Michiel? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Mike >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _ >>>>>> > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ >>>>>> > _ ._ _ >>>>>> > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>>>>> > >>>>>> > http://www.droettboom.com >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. >>>>>> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud >>>>>> > For >>>>>> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & >>>>>> > Everything In Between. >>>>>> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>>>>> > Mat...@li... >>>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _ >>>>>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >>>>>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.droettboom.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. >>>>>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For >>>>>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. >>>>>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>>>>> Mat...@li... >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. >>>>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For >>>>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. >>>>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>>>> >>>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>>>> Mat...@li... >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> _ >>>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >>>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>>> http://www.droettboom.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _ >>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>> http://www.droettboom.com >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. >> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For >> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. >> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >> >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >> _______________________________________________ >> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >> Mat...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >> >> > > > -- > ************************************ > Chris Beaumont > Graduate Student > Institute for Astronomy > University of Hawaii at Manoa > 2680 Woodlawn Drive > Honolulu, HI 96822 > www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont <http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/%7Ebeaumont> > ************************************ > > > > -- > _ > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | > http://www.droettboom.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > Mat...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > > |
