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Re: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...?
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From: Michael D. <md...@st...> - 2014-01-15 16:02:00
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On 01/14/2014 03:49 PM, Chris Beaumont wrote: > I have another long-simmering feature request along these lines: if > Matplotlib were to evolve a formal DOM-like figure structure like > mentioned above, it would be cool if this structure retained more > semantic information about the visualization itself. By this, I mean > that many high-level commands like hist, scatter, etc. spawn a bunch > of low level artists like rectangles and circles. After these methods > exit, it's hard/impossible to introspect a Figure and diagnose that > it, for example, is a histogram and not a bar chart. I agree, this would be very nice to have, but is (obviously) a much bigger step from what we currently have in matplotlib. Along those lines, if the "frontend" (i.e. the pylab interface and even the OO interface) basically generate a tree, then you could serialize that tree (here XML would be a great fit, don't knock it), and even non-Python based tools could transform it into something else. > > Retaining a better high-level description of a plot (which probably > amounts to creating more compound artist types) would make it easier > to build tools like mpld3 and other cool things that involve runtime > editing or optimization of tree-like data structures. Agreed. No argument against this at all from me -- but knowing how much work this would be, the obstacle there is just finding the time to do it. It would be a significant rewrite... Mike > > chris > > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Jacob Vanderplas > <ja...@cs... <mailto:ja...@cs...>> wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Michael Droettboom > <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: > > > I hope all of the above makes sense... > > > Definitely makes sense: what I've built-up in mpld3 is essentially > something that mimics this sort of visitor pattern, though it > misses some things because of the draw-time difficulties you mention. > I think a two-stage draw() would be a _very_ helpful restructure. > Currently, I'm forced to achieve this result by writing a png to > a throwaway byte-stream... > Jake > > > Mike > > > On 01/14/2014 01:30 PM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote: >> Thanks - we'll make it happen at some point. >> >> Perhaps I can give the seed for a discussion: the stuff I've >> been doing with mpld3 is a lot of fun, but it's fundamentally >> limited by the fact that I have to dig around the internals >> of the figure object to find the relevant information to >> construct a plot representation. I may be able to do the >> same thing by creating a backend, but the problem is that the >> draw() methods of most objects call the renderer with no >> reference to whether the points lie in the data space or >> figure space: that is, paths and points are usually specified >> in figure/pixel coordinates or some transformed version >> thereof, which makes it near impossible to construct >> interactive representations absent Python kernel callbacks. >> >> What I'd love to see is some enhancement of the backend >> framework where there are some extra flags and information >> passed to the renderer: i.e. for each draw command, we need >> to know whether the drawn object should be linked to static >> figure coordinates or to dynamic axes/data coordinates. >> >> I've been in touch with Cyrille Rossant from the vispy team, >> Chris Beaumont from the Glue team, and Matt Sundwuist from >> the plotly team, all of whom asked if there might be a way to >> use what I've done with mpld3 to enable matplotlib to export >> into their own front-end format. I didn't start mpld3 with >> that sort of extensibility in mind, but I'm starting to >> invest some time thinking about how to design that. >> >> With the current matplotlib package, I think there are two >> ways to accomplish it: one is to create a general >> backend-like interface based on the figure introspection that >> mpld3 currently uses. The artist elements in each figure >> contain enough information to be able to infer whether the >> elements should move & zoom with the axes or not. The >> problem is, a lot of elements (like legends, axes aspects, >> etc.) are not fully established until the draw() command is >> called, so there are a few ugly hacks required to make it happen. >> >> The other option is to use an even uglier hack, and wrap the >> current backend framework with an object that somehow links >> back into the figure and infers from the draw_*() commands >> whether the path/point/marker/etc. should be drawn in static >> figure coordinates or in dynamic axes coordinates. I've >> started a simple prototype backend translator which has a >> renderer class that uses ``inspect`` back-trace the stack and >> accomplish this: It's really ugly, and I'm not particularly >> proud about it, but I think it's the current best way to >> accomplish the desired behavior. >> >> Ugly hacks aside, I think all of this points to a general >> desire for a new type of backend-like hook that can export >> dynamic plot elements in data coordinates, and static plot >> elements in figure coordinates. An enhancement in that >> direction could pave the way for a lot of interesting >> interactive front-ends to matplotlib figures. >> >> Anyway - if any of you have suggestions or responses to this, >> I'd love to hear them! Thanks, >> Jake >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Michael Droettboom >> <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: >> >> Jake: I'd definitely like to get you into one of these >> calls at some point. If you're able to pop in late, that >> would still be great -- or we can save that for another >> date. Trying to get Japan, three NA timezones and the UK >> all together is challenging ;) >> >> In any event, with Thomas, Ben, Michiel and myself >> confirmed, I think that's enough to go ahead, and >> hopefully others who have yet to respond can join as well. >> >> Mike >> >> >> On 01/14/2014 11:57 AM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote: >>> I'll probably not be able to swing 6am on the west >>> coast, but other folks are more important for this call, >>> I think :) >>> Jake >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Benjamin Root >>> <ben...@ou... <mailto:ben...@ou...>> wrote: >>> >>> That would actually work a little bit better for >>> me... I just have to remember to get into work a >>> little bit earlier. >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Michael Droettboom >>> <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm fine with starting the meeting an hour >>> early. How about others? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> On 01/14/2014 04:57 AM, Michiel de Hoon wrote: >>> > I can join this Thursday if we start with the >>> discussion on timers. >>> > If we can start 1 hour earlier (14:00 UTC, 9 >>> am ET, 23:00 in Japan) that would be even better. >>> > -Michiel. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -------------------------------------------- >>> > On Mon, 1/13/14, Michael Droettboom >>> <md...@st... <mailto:md...@st...>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Subject: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...? >>> > To: "mat...@li... >>> <mailto:mat...@li...>" >>> <mat...@li... >>> <mailto:mat...@li...>> >>> > Date: Monday, January 13, 2014, 11:36 AM >>> > >>> > It's probably a good time to schedule >>> > another matplotlib Google Hangout. >>> > >>> > Is this Thursday at 1500 UTC (10 am ET) too >>> short notice for >>> > the usual >>> > candidates? >>> > >>> > I know there was discussion of getting >>> Michiel de Hoon on >>> > today (which I >>> > just saw, unfortunately). Is there another >>> time in the >>> > future that >>> > works for you, Michiel? >>> > >>> > Mike >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > _ >>> > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ >>> > _ ._ _ >>> > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>> > >>> > http://www.droettboom.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise >>> Cloud Services. >>> > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing >>> CenturyLink Cloud >>> > For >>> > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & >>> > Everything In Between. >>> > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>> > >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>> > Mat...@li... >>> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >>> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _ >>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >>> >>> http://www.droettboom.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise >>> Cloud Services. >>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing >>> CenturyLink Cloud For >>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & >>> Everything In Between. >>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>> Mat...@li... >>> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud >>> Services. >>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink >>> Cloud For >>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & >>> Everything In Between. >>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. >>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list >>> Mat...@li... >>> <mailto:Mat...@li...> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> _ >> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ >> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | >> >> http://www.droettboom.com >> >> > > > -- > _ > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | > > http://www.droettboom.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. > Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For > Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between. > Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > Mat...@li... > <mailto:Mat...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > > > > > -- > ************************************ > Chris Beaumont > Graduate Student > Institute for Astronomy > University of Hawaii at Manoa > 2680 Woodlawn Drive > Honolulu, HI 96822 > www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont <http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/%7Ebeaumont> > ************************************ -- _ |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _ | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | | http://www.droettboom.com |
