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Re: [matplotlib-devel] Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc
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From: David P. S. <dps...@ci...> - 2013-07-21 00:39:05
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On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 5:36 PM, < mat...@li...> wrote: > Send Matplotlib-devel mailing list submissions to > mat...@li... > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mat...@li... > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mat...@li... > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Matplotlib-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc > (Adrian Price-Whelan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:36:42 -0400 > From: Adrian Price-Whelan <adr...@gm...> > Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] Plot or Not: voting to create better > matplotlibrc > To: mat...@li... > Message-ID: > <CAEUL7mENjKC4ZYeSsm+7Yq7h4oYiA1nMPKi= > E9p...@ma...> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, > > Definitely don't link from matplotlib. This was a fun hack put together to > get people talking about re-styling -- success! > > OK, sorry for the noise. The site is beautiful and functional, and I'm very glad that you got the discussion flowing! I have to echo Chris' disappointment about the discussion of defaults in > MPL. While there are certainly many subjective elements of style and > design, there are also a number of rules that the default settings violate > (as Chris mentions below). The way I interpret the push-back to replacing > the defaults is: "there are too many better alternatives that we will never > agree upon, so let's just keep what's there." To 0th order, just pick one! > Fixing the few things that Chris mentions below will go a long way to > modernizing the MPL feel and experience. There many other things I would > like to change about the defaults, but maybe the right thing to do is just > issue a pull request so we can discuss on there? > I agree about the defaults, we desperately need to modernize the look of the plots to be competitive with ggplot2 etc. > > As a longer term idea, I propose: > - normalize what can and can't be modified with an rc file -- right now, > it's kind of all over the place > I really do object to the 'rc' terminology. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_commands: > The term *rc* stands for the phrase "*run commands*". It is used for any file that contains startup information for a > command. It is believed to have originated somewhere in 1965 And this is my problem with 'rc': it brings to mind an arcane config file hidden away somewhere that has a terrible syntax and must not be touched. As Chris and Adrian have emphasized, the point is that we *should* be tweaking away at the parameters all the time. I propose to rename as mpl_params=rcParams At https://gist.github.com/dpsanders/6047005 I have uploaded a short script which should be added to the matplotlib documentation, where I show how it looks to use mpl_params. I think it is much clearer and more inviting to tweak! David. > > then: > - each plot in the matplotlib gallery should have a drop-down menu with > ~3-5 style options > - these options can be named or whatever, but should be complete > matplotlibrc files that can either be a) shipped with matplotlib, or b) > very easily downloaded and installed (think: > matplotlib.rc_install('name-of-style')) > - on each gallery entry page, selecting an option from the drop-down should > show the same plot made with the specified rc style > > I'm happy to help implement this stuff, but I think this would be a > tremendous resource to the community. > > And if you decide to reject everything from this email, *please* at least > change the default colormap :) #downwithJet > > - Adrian > > From: Chris Beaumont <bea...@ha...> > > Date: Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 5:47 PM > > Subject: Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc > > To: mat...@li... > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I thought I'd chime in on this discussion -- Adrian Price-Whelan and I > put > > together plotornot during the SciPy sprints. > > > > I wouldn't advocate for linking to plotornot from matplotlib -- the idea > > is semi tongue-in-cheek, and meant to gauge to what extent there is > > consensus about plot styles. It's not set up to teach about rcParams, nor > > does it systematically explore all possible styles. The votes (>10K, > last I > > checked) are saved, and eventually Adrian or I will look over the > feedback > > and report back to you all. I haven't had time for that yet. I hope the > > name didn't *actually* offend anyone. > > > > At the risk of sounding unappreciative of MPL (which I love, and rely > upon > > daily), I must admit I was disheartened after hearing the MPL devs at > SciPy > > discuss styles and defaults. I understand that you don't want to change > the > > default styles without a clearly better alternative. I also understand > > that, to some extent, style preferences are subjective. However, there > > seemed to be quite a bit of resistance to the idea that MPL defaults > should > > change *at all.* > > > > Even if you ignore the subjective component of this (which I think is a > > mistake, since in my experience there is broad consensus that projects > like > > ggplot2, d3, tableau, and spotfire do a "better" job than MPL at > styling), > > there are some well-established visual principles that matplotlib > violates. > > Some of my biggest pet peeves are: > > > > 1) The default 'axes.color_cycle' values should be equally visible, with > > similar luminance values. The current defaults (bgrcmyk) do not have this > > property -- c and y are harder to see, and thus carry less visual > emphasis. > > A color table like the "Dark2" color brewer table ( > > http://learnr.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/colours-dark2.png, > > colorbrewer2.org) is more uniform, and carefully designed for visibility > > and contrast. 'rgbcmyk' is clearly an arbitrary choice -- why not use a > > smarter default? > > > > 2) The default 'jet' colormap for images has a lot of poor properties > > (which is even mentioned on the MPL docs at > > http://matplotlib.org/api/pyplot_summary.html#id1). The brain is bad at > > ordering changes in hue (which is bigger -- purple or yellow?), and > better > > at ordering changes in intensity or saturation. A colleague of mine > > designed a visualization tool for doctors, and found that the rainbow > color > > table had a dramatic negative effect on the effectiveness of the tool > (you > > can watch her TED talk about this at > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU7veyGGps4&t=440s). The jet default is > > especially frustrating, since it *cannot* be modified via rcParams > > > > 3) Some of the defaults violate Tufte principles like minimizing "chart > > junk." For example, the 'stepfilled' mode for hist is probably better > than > > the default, which draws vertical lines between every bin. Those lines > make > > the histogram noisier -- do they convey any extra information? Again, > this > > can't be tweaked via rcParams. > > > > Sorry for being long-winded -- I just want to make the case that this is > > an important (and not *entirely* subjective) issue. If nothing else, it > > would be great to see some clear statement about where the MPL devs stand > > on this issue -- what criteria must be met to consider a change to the > > defaults? My apologies if such a document already exists somewhere! > > > > Cheers, > > Chris Beaumont > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 3:03 PM, < > > mat...@li...> wrote: > > > >> Send Matplotlib-devel mailing list submissions to > >> mat...@li... > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> mat...@li... > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> mat...@li... > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of Matplotlib-devel digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc > >> (Eric Firing) > >> 2. Re: How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib plots? (Eric Firing) > >> 3. Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc > >> (Benjamin Root) > >> 4. Re: How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib plots? (Benjamin Root) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:20:11 -1000 > >> From: Eric Firing <ef...@ha...> > >> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] Plot or Not: voting to create better > >> matplotlibrc > >> To: mat...@li... > >> Message-ID: <51E...@ha...> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> > >> On 2013/07/20 4:18 AM, David P. Sanders wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > Probably many of you know about "Plot or Not", a site where we vote on > >> > the same plot presented in different ways, to get feedback about > better > >> > matplotlibrc params: > >> > > >> > http://warm-escarpment-9042.herokuapp.com/ > >> > > >> > It seems to me an absolutely fantastic idea! I think many people do > not > >> > realise how fantastic the plots can look with some of this modern > >> > styling. (Styling was mentioned several times at SciPy.) > >> > > >> > Would it be possible to put a link to this site on the matplotlib web > >> > page and encourage people to use it? > >> > >> David, > >> > >> Interesting, but I'm not sure this is a good approach. I really don't > >> see the point of the voting. What I think would be more useful would be > >> a set of matplotlibrc files with examples of their effect on at least a > >> few plot types. > >> > >> > > >> > Definitely time to update the defaults!! > >> > >> Or maybe include a representative set of rcParams combinations to make > >> it easier for people to choose a design that suits their purpose. This > >> could be part of a toolkit. > >> > >> Eric > >> > >> > > >> > Best wishes, > >> > David. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Dr. David P. Sanders > >> > > >> > Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor > >> > Departamento de F?sica, Facultad de Ciencias > >> > Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM) > >> > > >> > dps...@ci... <mailto:dps...@ci...> > >> > http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders > >> > <http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/%7Edsanders> > >> > > >> > Cub?culo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de F?sica > >> > Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics > >> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics > >> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. > >> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! > >> > > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > >> > Mat...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:55:37 -1000 > >> From: Eric Firing <ef...@ha...> > >> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib > >> plots? > >> To: mat...@li... > >> Message-ID: <51E...@ha...> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >> > >> On 2013/07/20 4:41 AM, David P. Sanders wrote: > >> > I find the default font used in matplotlib horrible. We should be able > >> > to do much better these days. > >> > >> Which font is being used as default on your installation? And what are > >> the characteristics that earn the rating of "horrible"? > >> > >> Eric > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 3 > >> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 14:58:12 -0400 > >> From: Benjamin Root <ben...@ou...> > >> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] Plot or Not: voting to create better > >> matplotlibrc > >> To: Eric Firing <ef...@ha...> > >> Cc: matplotlib development list > >> <mat...@li...> > >> Message-ID: > >> <CANNq6F=pdWohTRYLqEkG3oy6VoWYJ= > >> c4Q...@ma...> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> >From discussions with others at SciPy, we found ourselves disagreeing > on > >> what default we would want. We also weren't sure exactly which params > were > >> the ones that people tended to change. We have zero data on this. This > >> site > >> is intended to help start that data collection process. > >> > >> We can certainly improve this site to collect other kinds of info, but > >> this > >> is just a start. One could also view this as a launching point for > >> teaching > >> how to use rcParams (sorry David, i kinda like that name) in mpl. You > all > >> know I never let a good teaching moment go to waste! > >> > >> As for linking from matplotlib.org, I am ambivalent. It is a bit > >> gimmicky, > >> and I do worry about being counterproductive to efforts in SciPy to be > >> more > >> inclusive of women (given the rather anti-feministic undertones of the > >> site > >> we are parodying). Of course, that could just be me being overly > cautious. > >> > >> Cheers! > >> Ben Root > >> On Jul 20, 2013 2:20 PM, "Eric Firing" <ef...@ha...> wrote: > >> > >> > On 2013/07/20 4:18 AM, David P. Sanders wrote: > >> > > Hi, > >> > > > >> > > Probably many of you know about "Plot or Not", a site where we vote > on > >> > > the same plot presented in different ways, to get feedback about > >> better > >> > > matplotlibrc params: > >> > > > >> > > http://warm-escarpment-9042.herokuapp.com/ > >> > > > >> > > It seems to me an absolutely fantastic idea! I think many people do > >> not > >> > > realise how fantastic the plots can look with some of this modern > >> > > styling. (Styling was mentioned several times at SciPy.) > >> > > > >> > > Would it be possible to put a link to this site on the matplotlib > web > >> > > page and encourage people to use it? > >> > > >> > David, > >> > > >> > Interesting, but I'm not sure this is a good approach. I really don't > >> > see the point of the voting. What I think would be more useful would > be > >> > a set of matplotlibrc files with examples of their effect on at least > a > >> > few plot types. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Definitely time to update the defaults!! > >> > > >> > Or maybe include a representative set of rcParams combinations to make > >> > it easier for people to choose a design that suits their purpose. > This > >> > could be part of a toolkit. > >> > > >> > Eric > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Best wishes, > >> > > David. > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > Dr. David P. Sanders > >> > > > >> > > Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor > >> > > Departamento de F?sica, Facultad de Ciencias > >> > > Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM) > >> > > > >> > > dps...@ci... <mailto:dps...@ci...> > >> > > http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders > >> > > <http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/%7Edsanders> > >> > > > >> > > Cub?culo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de F?sica > >> > > Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965 > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics > >> > > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from > AppDynamics > >> > > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. > >> > > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! > >> > > > >> > > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > >> > > Mat...@li... > >> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics > >> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics > >> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. > >> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! > >> > > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > >> > Mat...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:03:20 -0400 > >> From: Benjamin Root <ben...@ou...> > >> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib > >> plots? > >> To: "David P. Sanders" <dps...@ci...> > >> Cc: matplotlib development list > >> <mat...@li...> > >> Message-ID: > >> <CANNq6Fm0Oz= > >> 3uk...@ma...> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> David, > >> > >> IIRC, we were just starting to investigate how to produce retina > graphics. > >> Perhaps you might be able to help Mike D and Michael de Hoon with there > >> efforts because very few of us have retina displays. > >> > >> Cheers! > >> Ben Root > >> On Jul 20, 2013 10:43 AM, "David P. Sanders" < > dps...@ci...> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > I find the default font used in matplotlib horrible. We should be able > >> to > >> > do much better these days. > >> > > >> > One very interesting option, at least for standard (paper) publishing, > >> is > >> > the STIX fonts, which is a Times-like font set promoted by several > >> > publishers. > >> > > >> > There are various options in matplotlib, such as > >> > matplotlib.rcParams["mathtext.fontset"], which allow the option > "stix", > >> > but I have not been able to get it to work. Can anybody please help me > >> with > >> > this -- what is required? > >> > > >> > I have the STIX otf or ttf installed on my Mac, but I don't seem to > >> manage > >> > to get the LaTeX versions installed -- installing LaTeX fonts is *so* > >> > disgusting (is there some helper script for that?). > >> > > >> > Thanks and best wishes, > >> > David. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Dr. David P. Sanders > >> > > >> > Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor > >> > Departamento de F?sica, Facultad de Ciencias > >> > Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM) > >> > > >> > dps...@ci... > >> > http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders > >> > > >> > Cub?culo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de F?sica > >> > > >> > Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics > >> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics > >> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. > >> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! > >> > > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > >> > Mat...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > >> > > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics > >> Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics > >> Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. > >> Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! > >> > >> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Matplotlib-devel mailing list > >> Mat...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > >> > >> > >> End of Matplotlib-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 17 > >> ************************************************ > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > ************************************ > > Chris Beaumont > > Graduate Student > > Institute for Astronomy > > University of Hawaii at Manoa > > 2680 Woodlawn Drive > > Honolulu, HI 96822 > > www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont > > ************************************ > > > > > > > > -- > > ************************************ > > Chris Beaumont > > Graduate Student > > Institute for Astronomy > > University of Hawaii at Manoa > > 2680 Woodlawn Drive > > Honolulu, HI 96822 > > www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont > > ************************************ > > > > > > -- > > Adrian M. Price-Whelan ~ Columbia University ~ http://adrian.pw > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > ------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds. > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Matplotlib-devel mailing list > Mat...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel > > > End of Matplotlib-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 19 > ************************************************ > -- Dr. David P. Sanders Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor Departamento de Física, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) dps...@ci... http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders Cubículo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de Física Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965 |
