From: Travis O. <oli...@ee...> - 2004-05-07 01:14:01
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Todd Pitts from Sandia asked me the following question. >I have one final question about python on windows. It seems >that the non-interactive scripting works well enough. However, I have >not found a single interactive interpreter that I could recommend to >members of my group without serious reservations. > >I have tried IPython, >PyCrust (various), IDLE, Using it from within emacs (not cygwin emacs, >just emacs under windows), PythonWin, etc. They all have serious >problems when it comes to usability. Most don't have tab completion at >all. Most, (emacs included) don't work with any plotting package. I >have tried gist from scipy and matplotlib (doesn't work with anything >except straight scripting). > >Is python really this unusable for >interactive data exploration and modeling under Windows? > I'm forwarding it to these lists so that individuals with more experience on Windows than I have can respond to his request. What do people use on Windows for interactive work???? -Travis Oliphant |
From: Darren D. <dd...@co...> - 2004-05-07 02:04:44
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=2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 06 May 2004 09:13 pm, Travis Oliphant wrote: > Todd Pitts from Sandia asked me the following question. > > >I have one final question about python on windows. It seems > >that the non-interactive scripting works well enough. However, I have > >not found a single interactive interpreter that I could recommend to > >members of my group without serious reservations. > > > >I have tried IPython, > >PyCrust (various), IDLE, Using it from within emacs (not cygwin emacs, > >just emacs under windows), PythonWin, etc. They all have serious > >problems when it comes to usability. Most don't have tab completion at > >all. Most, (emacs included) don't work with any plotting package. I > >have tried gist from scipy and matplotlib (doesn't work with anything > >except straight scripting). > > > >Is python really this unusable for > >interactive data exploration and modeling under Windows? > > I'm forwarding it to these lists so that individuals with more > experience on Windows than I have can respond to his request. > > What do people use on Windows for interactive work???? > > -Travis Oliphant > I am new to Python, and have encountered some of these issues. Recently, th= e=20 matplotlib list has had some discussion about interactive use. Others will= =20 have better informed responses than I, but you should know that matplotlib= =20 can be used with an interactive interpreter. If you are still interested (a= nd=20 I encourage you to look into it) check the matplotlib website for more=20 information about interactive use. I recently discovered SciTE/Scintilla, which is a code editor and is capabl= e=20 of generating an API for python based on what modules are installed on your= =20 system. There is a native version of SciTE for windows, and my initial=20 impression has been very good. The matplotlib module was recognized and onc= e=20 the was generated (by running a python script), autocompletion is active. =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAmu6m9JwfaKJzLVcRAgUjAKDRpXQZlogJs5m3RJksYZSnVDoIOQCgi3Gt =463aEiBdMmhc4Igq+Zz3xBRc=3D =3Dj0hN =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
From: John H. <jdh...@ac...> - 2004-05-07 02:18:46
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>>>>> "Travis" == Travis Oliphant <oli...@ee...> writes: >> (emacs included) don't work with any plotting package. I have >> tried gist from scipy and matplotlib (doesn't work with >> anything except straight scripting). Is python really this >> unusable for interactive data exploration and modeling under >> Windows? Travis> I'm forwarding it to these lists so that individuals with Travis> more experience on Windows than I have can respond to his Travis> request. What do people use on Windows for interactive Travis> work???? Have you tried matplotlib with the TkAgg backend using the standard python shell, ipython or idle launched with -n? Most people report good luck on windows with one of these shells for interactive use, particularly the first two. The TkAgg backend is a fairly recent addition, and a couple of settings in the matplotlib rc file will make your experience a little more pleasant backend : TkAgg interactive : True tk.window_focus : True # Maintain shell focus for TkAgg Now when you fire up python or ipython and then import matplotlib, you'll be in interactive mode using the Tkinter backend. The window focus setting is designed to keep your figure from taking the focus when you issue plotting commands. Admittedly scripting is the primary way most people use matplotlib, but we've been working to make the interactive experience better. So if it's been a while since you tried it interactively on win32, it may be worth a second look using a recent release. It is important to consult the backends section of the web page to make sure your IDE is compatible with the backend you are using, however. Finally, Todd Miller, who developed the Tk backend, has been very responsive in fixing known problems, so if you'll let us know what limitations you find we'll do what we can to fix them up. John Hunter |
From: Fernando P. <fp...@co...> - 2004-05-07 04:09:19
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Travis Oliphant wrote: > Todd Pitts from Sandia asked me the following question. > > >>I have one final question about python on windows. It seems >>that the non-interactive scripting works well enough. However, I have >>not found a single interactive interpreter that I could recommend to >>members of my group without serious reservations. >> >>I have tried IPython, >>PyCrust (various), IDLE, Using it from within emacs (not cygwin emacs, >>just emacs under windows), PythonWin, etc. They all have serious >>problems when it comes to usability. Most don't have tab completion at >>all. Most, (emacs included) don't work with any plotting package. I >>have tried gist from scipy and matplotlib (doesn't work with anything >>except straight scripting). >> >>Is python really this unusable for >>interactive data exploration and modeling under Windows? As the ipython (http://ipython.scipy.org) author I'm obviously biased, but Windows users seem fairly happy with it. Using Gary Bishop's extensions, it is possible (it should basically work out of the box, though I don't know because I don't use Windows) to get readline and coloring support under a normal (non-cygwin) command shell. Gary's tools are at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/uncpythontools I also imagine that using ipython within emacs as your python shell (which requires a special python-mode.el and ipython.el, available at http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/ipython-emacs-0.3.tgz) must be an option under Windows. I've only used them under Linux, but since this is just regular Emacs lisp, I imagine it should be platform-independent. I hope this helps. Regards, Fernando. |
From: Fernando P. <fp...@co...> - 2004-05-07 04:20:03
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Travis Oliphant wrote: > Todd Pitts from Sandia asked me the following question. >>all. Most, (emacs included) don't work with any plotting package. I >>have tried gist from scipy and matplotlib (doesn't work with anything >>except straight scripting). Sorry for the 2nd post. I forgot to mention plotting: ipython includes enhanced support for Gnuplot, with modifications to the interactive plotting syntax to make it as quick and easy to use as possible. I use python 100% of the time I'm working on scientific code and data exploration, and my environment is: Xemacs for heavy editing, a terminal with ipython for interactive work, Gnuplot (with ipython's extensions) for 2d plotting and Mayavi (http://mayavi.sourceforge.net) for sophisticated data visualization. With Gnuplot 4.0's mouse support, it is an extremely convenient tool for fast data exploration, capable of publication-quality PostScript output. Finally, for diagram generation and other problems of a graphical but not purely 'plotting' nature, I have been very happy with PyX. IPython was designed _specifically_ to make interactive scientific computing work as fluid as possible. It has direct access to the underlying system shell, it remembers previous values (like Mathematica's %N variables), and has many other features which you may find useful in this kind of context. I haven't looked at matplotlib yet (I've been using gnuplot since the days of Windows 3.0), but I will very soon, and I have heard excellent things about it. For those already familiar with matlab's syntax, this may be a better option than gnuplot. If there are any problems with ipython's interaction with matplotlib, I'll gladly fix them if possible. Regards, Fernando. |