Hi Fred,
Under Linux I have no idea, but under Windows you have inputs, such as the microphone, and outputs, such as headphones. They are usually not connected, there is a program in between such as Jamulus and the Jamulus server. The direct signal problem comes because the external audio boxes have a switch to directly connect the inputs and outputs bypassing any program in between.
It appears that the sound routing programs can also bypass the program. If you are using one turn it off. And be sure the direct monitor is off on any external audio box. You need that signal tht passed through the server to be able to play with the others who are also only hearing that.
I hope that helps,
Don
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Hello Fred, I know what you mean, I'm afraid i haev got a difinitive answer but a suggested direction to look in. I hear some folks ues Jack (there's a few similar programs) that sems to be routing program so you can choose where signals go. I have to confess i havent bothered, I did break the first rule of Jamulus Club, Sorry Jamulus, When i did turn the direct monitoring off on my interface yes theres a kind of slap back echo sound, i figured that is the sound coming back from the server, there is some latency, but I got used to it quite quick. So i guess you could find out using a routing software if you really want to know.
Now here's my responding question; I'm trying to run Jamulus on Vista and Linux Mint, but havent installed mint yet, poss dual boot on the same machine. Any advice ? Which version of Linux did you run Jamulus on ? and which version of windows are you on ?
Apologies if there's typos, its after 4am just done jamming on Jamulus ! it great fun, just get in there, there's loads of folks just trying it out getting going
Bests
Sam
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OK so I had a brainstorm this morning: connect to a server with two clients, and set up one for playing and one for listening. Using QjackCtl on Linux, I set it up like this:
My signal goes into the mix using the "Jamulus" client, and I listen to the mix using the "Jamulus-01" client.
So this works. But I can't imagine this is the recommended solution?
Also, not sure how my buddies on Windows and Mac will set things up?
Last edit: Fred Martin 2020-05-07
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I think I figured out my issue. For my audio interface, I've been using a Behringer UFO202:
I'm pretty sure this device copies its input to its output all the time. The output is mixed with whatever the computer is generating. So I'm forced to hear my local signal mixed with the Jamulus server.
For now, my workaround is to use two computers: I use the UFO-202 on one machine to join the jam, and then I connect to the same server on another computer to listen (using its built-in audio DAC).
Last edit: Fred Martin 2020-05-10
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Interesting. That's the interface I have. I just plugged it in, turned off the "monitor" switch and Jack set itself up as far as I recall. Here's what it has for me:
@Rob, the headphone jack on the UFO202 is a mix of the local input plus the computer output. That's what I was trying at first, and I couldn't get rid of the local signal.
Now I'm using the headphone jack of my computer as the second audio output - the alsa_out / hw:0 solution above.
The UFO202 is the device labeled system in the QjackCtl graph above.
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@Gilgongo - my device doesn't have a monitor on/off switch. Maybe do you have a slightly different model? Behringer makes a few devices that look nearly the same. Mine's the UFO202.
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I use Linux extensively, and the quartet I work with use Mac and Windows, so I'm sharing our experience so far. Others may have different experience from us, so your mileage may vary, as they say... Also I'm referring to acoustic instruments, where you can hear the instrument, and not something like an elecric guitar
Direct sound can come from open-backed headphones (which let significant amount of direct sound, eg. from a violin), a direct headphone signal on the interface, or incorrectly adjust monitor feed on the interface. In my experience a "standard" jamulus client setup will feed sound to headphones from "jamulus output" as seen in the graph, and that's what you want. On Linux you don't need two instances of jamulus for this to happen. You would normally hear jamulus output.
Why is direct sound not good when using jamulus? I had to explain this to our first violinist - the aim is for all the musicians to play "together", so that the server gets the unison notes together. He tried using the director monitor mix on his interface; it sounded "better" - more direct, in sync with his playing - but he soon realised that it messed up his timing with respect to the other musicians. So in the end he realised he needed to adjust, so that he played ahead of the sound he intended to hear in his headphones. It's tough, but luckily the brain has enough plasticity to accept and to adjust to this.
We're curious how the quartet will re-adjust back when they meet live, hopefully in two weeks!!
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The odd looking left to right and right to left connections on the input side are to make my mic appear as 2 channels of mono, and still support a second line in for this interface.
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thank you for the explainations amd drawing guys! Anyway, I did mamage to get my jamulus working wjth my friends, But on and off, I still hear the jitter spiking sounds during the cross jamming, and it could be a little irritating at times.
I have checked the small buffer . Select tbe recommended 128ms , selected output is choosen as mon in/ stereo out and my audio quality is set to normal.
for me , I connect to my yamaha mg series mixer direct that runs on a usb cable because it has usb send and usb return for my setup. =) Do advise as the clock syncing "spiking" sound can be alittle irritating to my friend and myself when we are jamming! =)
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Hi all, I have Jamulus running on both Windows and Linux, and in both cases, I can't figure out how to mute my local input signal.
So I hear my live performance plus the return signal from the server (with its little delay/echo).
How do I follow the prime directive -- "DO. NOT. LISTEN. TO. YOUR. DIRECT. SIGNAL!" ?
Thank you all for any help.
Fred
Hi Fred,
Under Linux I have no idea, but under Windows you have inputs, such as the microphone, and outputs, such as headphones. They are usually not connected, there is a program in between such as Jamulus and the Jamulus server. The direct signal problem comes because the external audio boxes have a switch to directly connect the inputs and outputs bypassing any program in between.
It appears that the sound routing programs can also bypass the program. If you are using one turn it off. And be sure the direct monitor is off on any external audio box. You need that signal tht passed through the server to be able to play with the others who are also only hearing that.
I hope that helps,
Don
Hello Fred, I know what you mean, I'm afraid i haev got a difinitive answer but a suggested direction to look in. I hear some folks ues Jack (there's a few similar programs) that sems to be routing program so you can choose where signals go. I have to confess i havent bothered, I did break the first rule of Jamulus Club, Sorry Jamulus, When i did turn the direct monitoring off on my interface yes theres a kind of slap back echo sound, i figured that is the sound coming back from the server, there is some latency, but I got used to it quite quick. So i guess you could find out using a routing software if you really want to know.
Now here's my responding question; I'm trying to run Jamulus on Vista and Linux Mint, but havent installed mint yet, poss dual boot on the same machine. Any advice ? Which version of Linux did you run Jamulus on ? and which version of windows are you on ?
Apologies if there's typos, its after 4am just done jamming on Jamulus ! it great fun, just get in there, there's loads of folks just trying it out getting going
Bests
SamOK so I had a brainstorm this morning: connect to a server with two clients, and set up one for playing and one for listening. Using QjackCtl on Linux, I set it up like this:
My signal goes into the mix using the "Jamulus" client, and I listen to the mix using the "Jamulus-01" client.
So this works. But I can't imagine this is the recommended solution?
Also, not sure how my buddies on Windows and Mac will set things up?
Last edit: Fred Martin 2020-05-07
I think I figured out my issue. For my audio interface, I've been using a Behringer UFO202:
I'm pretty sure this device copies its input to its output all the time. The output is mixed with whatever the computer is generating. So I'm forced to hear my local signal mixed with the Jamulus server.
For now, my workaround is to use two computers: I use the UFO-202 on one machine to join the jam, and then I connect to the same server on another computer to listen (using its built-in audio DAC).
Last edit: Fred Martin 2020-05-10
Interesting. That's the interface I have. I just plugged it in, turned off the "monitor" switch and Jack set itself up as far as I recall. Here's what it has for me:
(BTW I plug my headphones into the interface)
Last edit: Gilgongo 2020-05-11
Hey I figured it out!!
I realized I needed a second audio interface to pipe the Jamulus return signal for output.
Fortunately the jackd documentation explains how to do this, using the
alsa_outcommand. I used my machine's built in audio for this, athw:0.What's really cool is that as soon as I was running
alsa_out, a second playback output showed up on my QjackCtl graph.Then all I needed to do is wire it up, per diagram below.
Now I hear only my return signal, and I am following the First Rule of Jamulus!
BTW here are the settings I'm using to give the least latency while minimizing dropouts:
alsa_out -d hw:0 -r 48000 -f 30000 -p 256 -m 128Last edit: Fred Martin 2020-05-11
have you tried using the headphone jack on the interface?
Last edit: Rob Durkin 2021-01-12
@Rob, the headphone jack on the UFO202 is a mix of the local input plus the computer output. That's what I was trying at first, and I couldn't get rid of the local signal.
Now I'm using the headphone jack of my computer as the second audio output - the
alsa_out/hw:0solution above.The UFO202 is the device labeled
systemin the QjackCtl graph above.@Gilgongo - my device doesn't have a monitor on/off switch. Maybe do you have a slightly different model? Behringer makes a few devices that look nearly the same. Mine's the UFO202.
Oh sorry, I wasn't concenting. I have a UCA222 - looks very similar.
Hi there can i ask a very novice questions? What's the first rule of jamulus?
@Winfaithfulness - it's (stated in the negative) "DO. NOT. LISTEN. TO. YOUR. DIRECT. SIGNAL!"
or stated in the positive, only listen to the return signal from the shared Jamulus server.
This signal has you and your playing partners mixed together in sync.
This will be the signal that your bandmates are hearing too.
Obviously, it's hard not to hear yourself if you're singing or playing an acoustic instrument.
So, you need to wear headphones, and ones that block out sound in the room.
And retrain your brain, a bit.
Mervin explains more below.
Fred
I use Linux extensively, and the quartet I work with use Mac and Windows, so I'm sharing our experience so far. Others may have different experience from us, so your mileage may vary, as they say... Also I'm referring to acoustic instruments, where you can hear the instrument, and not something like an elecric guitar
Direct sound can come from open-backed headphones (which let significant amount of direct sound, eg. from a violin), a direct headphone signal on the interface, or incorrectly adjust monitor feed on the interface. In my experience a "standard" jamulus client setup will feed sound to headphones from "jamulus output" as seen in the graph, and that's what you want. On Linux you don't need two instances of jamulus for this to happen. You would normally hear jamulus output.
Why is direct sound not good when using jamulus? I had to explain this to our first violinist - the aim is for all the musicians to play "together", so that the server gets the unison notes together. He tried using the director monitor mix on his interface; it sounded "better" - more direct, in sync with his playing - but he soon realised that it messed up his timing with respect to the other musicians. So in the end he realised he needed to adjust, so that he played ahead of the sound he intended to hear in his headphones. It's tough, but luckily the brain has enough plasticity to accept and to adjust to this.
We're curious how the quartet will re-adjust back when they meet live, hopefully in two weeks!!
This is how it looks on my laptop:
The odd looking left to right and right to left connections on the input side are to make my mic appear as 2 channels of mono, and still support a second line in for this interface.
thank you for the explainations amd drawing guys! Anyway, I did mamage to get my jamulus working wjth my friends, But on and off, I still hear the jitter spiking sounds during the cross jamming, and it could be a little irritating at times.
I have checked the small buffer . Select tbe recommended 128ms , selected output is choosen as mon in/ stereo out and my audio quality is set to normal.
for me , I connect to my yamaha mg series mixer direct that runs on a usb cable because it has usb send and usb return for my setup. =) Do advise as the clock syncing "spiking" sound can be alittle irritating to my friend and myself when we are jamming! =)