Thanks. You made me go back through that section again. This time I checked how I had the MIX dial set on my Roland Quad-Capture. Turning it fully anticlockwise to Playback cut out 'the input straight to output' loop and immediately I can hear just my instrument coming back from the server only. I have good kit so my latency is very small and is not noticeable but some of the other guys and gals have the bare minimum and have latency issues. They are also definitely listening to their own signal as well and it's messing with everyone's heads! So thanks again.
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Hi Gilgongo, I never understood that URL page where it says "3. Make sure that if you mute your audio input inside the recording application, you can’t hear yourself." (surely a setting specific to Audacity?) and then "4. Close the recording application and run Jamulus. You should still not hear yourself." ... surely once Audacity is closed, any local settings to that app are void? Or is it implying that Audacity's muting is system-wide?
When Jamulus on a Mac client is running, presumably it outputs the server audio to the headphones plugged in to the Jamulus client, correct? Is there any way to get that wrong?
I appreciate any help here, but must say - as a pianist playing a grand piano - that it is very difficult to ignore direct sound. I am sure other acoustic musicians share this frustration. Perhaps I'd better get a digital keyboard.
Thanks
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Perhaps the instructions aren't clear. The point of using Audacity is to test the concept of muting an application. The idea being that if you can perform the operation using Audacity (or any other such app), then you should be able to do it with Jamulus. It has no lasting or other effect on anything.
presumably it outputs the server audio to the headphones plugged in to the Jamulus client, correct? Is there any way to get that wrong?
The issue is which sound your audio interface/sound card is playing you. If it's your own instrument/mic sound, then that's bad. If it's the "return" (server) sound then that's good. The above test with Audacity establishes which one is happening.
You may of course not be able to do anything about it, but that depends on your audio interface setup, which (obviously) we can't help with unless we know the exact details. This is why the docs often seem frustratingly vague - there are so many combinations of hardware and software out there that we have to adopt a general "best fit" explanation.
I am sure other acoustic musicians share this frustration.
Indeed, this is not easy for acoustic musicians or singers. However, if you talk to seasoned Jamulus users, they will tell you of their skills in playing ahead of the beat to compensate (assuming latency isn't too bad - eg less than about 40-50ms).
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Hi David,
I play viola, even harder to ignore the direct sound when it is vibrating directly in touch with your body between your chin and your chest. But... put your earphones, closed earphones, on and make the playback relatively loud. You will get used to hearing only the headphones. And it is the only way to really compensate for any delay when playing together with others. It sounds like a gargantuan, impossible task, but you will be amazed at how quickly you get used to it. Just don't try to push the limits of the overall delay too much. I find that overall delays of more than about 50ms are difficult to impossible to play with.
As to your other question, will you be using the internal audio interface of your MAC? then you don't need to worry, you will be hearing the return from Jamulus in your headphones. The problem comes with the external audio interfaces. Although they give much better audio quality (you will want one if you use Jamulus alot), they have the possibility to hear the direct sound from the mic in the headphones. One must be sure to not use that "feature" as it makes playing together impossible.
Have fun,
Don
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Hi David and Don C. I am using an external audio - Roland QuadCapture - as my input and output device. My recording software is Reason. Paras 3 and 4 in the trouble shooting page are exactly right for my setup and now I only hear the return from the Jamulus server. My setup, together with a quality mic and closed headphones also gives an excellent 'sound' back to me. Don C - I played violin for 6 years when I was a boy and, although I was never any good at it, I do understand the issue of the direct vibrations coming from the instrument itself!
thanks, Dick
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I am using Beyer Dynamic DT100 closed back headphones. I've used them for many years. Popular in recording studios, they are currently priced in the UK at £125.
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I've searched the forums but can't find the answer. How do I ensure that I am not listening to my direct signal?
Hi Richard,
There's a general test for this described here: https://jamulus.io/wiki/Client-Troubleshooting ("You all sound OK, but it’s difficult to keep together")
If you are still having problems or are unsure, detail your setup here and we'll see if we can help.
Thanks. You made me go back through that section again. This time I checked how I had the MIX dial set on my Roland Quad-Capture. Turning it fully anticlockwise to Playback cut out 'the input straight to output' loop and immediately I can hear just my instrument coming back from the server only. I have good kit so my latency is very small and is not noticeable but some of the other guys and gals have the bare minimum and have latency issues. They are also definitely listening to their own signal as well and it's messing with everyone's heads! So thanks again.
Hi Gilgongo, I never understood that URL page where it says "3. Make sure that if you mute your audio input inside the recording application, you can’t hear yourself." (surely a setting specific to Audacity?) and then "4. Close the recording application and run Jamulus. You should still not hear yourself." ... surely once Audacity is closed, any local settings to that app are void? Or is it implying that Audacity's muting is system-wide?
When Jamulus on a Mac client is running, presumably it outputs the server audio to the headphones plugged in to the Jamulus client, correct? Is there any way to get that wrong?
I appreciate any help here, but must say - as a pianist playing a grand piano - that it is very difficult to ignore direct sound. I am sure other acoustic musicians share this frustration. Perhaps I'd better get a digital keyboard.
Thanks
Perhaps the instructions aren't clear. The point of using Audacity is to test the concept of muting an application. The idea being that if you can perform the operation using Audacity (or any other such app), then you should be able to do it with Jamulus. It has no lasting or other effect on anything.
The issue is which sound your audio interface/sound card is playing you. If it's your own instrument/mic sound, then that's bad. If it's the "return" (server) sound then that's good. The above test with Audacity establishes which one is happening.
You may of course not be able to do anything about it, but that depends on your audio interface setup, which (obviously) we can't help with unless we know the exact details. This is why the docs often seem frustratingly vague - there are so many combinations of hardware and software out there that we have to adopt a general "best fit" explanation.
Indeed, this is not easy for acoustic musicians or singers. However, if you talk to seasoned Jamulus users, they will tell you of their skills in playing ahead of the beat to compensate (assuming latency isn't too bad - eg less than about 40-50ms).
Hi David,
I play viola, even harder to ignore the direct sound when it is vibrating directly in touch with your body between your chin and your chest. But... put your earphones, closed earphones, on and make the playback relatively loud. You will get used to hearing only the headphones. And it is the only way to really compensate for any delay when playing together with others. It sounds like a gargantuan, impossible task, but you will be amazed at how quickly you get used to it. Just don't try to push the limits of the overall delay too much. I find that overall delays of more than about 50ms are difficult to impossible to play with.
As to your other question, will you be using the internal audio interface of your MAC? then you don't need to worry, you will be hearing the return from Jamulus in your headphones. The problem comes with the external audio interfaces. Although they give much better audio quality (you will want one if you use Jamulus alot), they have the possibility to hear the direct sound from the mic in the headphones. One must be sure to not use that "feature" as it makes playing together impossible.
Have fun,
Don
Hi David and Don C. I am using an external audio - Roland QuadCapture - as my input and output device. My recording software is Reason. Paras 3 and 4 in the trouble shooting page are exactly right for my setup and now I only hear the return from the Jamulus server. My setup, together with a quality mic and closed headphones also gives an excellent 'sound' back to me. Don C - I played violin for 6 years when I was a boy and, although I was never any good at it, I do understand the issue of the direct vibrations coming from the instrument itself!
thanks, Dick
Thanks everyone, this is really helpful and encouraging.
Any suggestions for closed-back headphones?
Thanks, David
I am using Beyer Dynamic DT100 closed back headphones. I've used them for many years. Popular in recording studios, they are currently priced in the UK at £125.
I am happily using Beyer Dynamic DT240 that cost somewhat more than half the price of the DT100.
Simple test to ensure that you're not listening to local audio (aka local monitoring):
If you hear 2 claps after #2, or any claps after #4, then you've got local audio enabled and should disable it.
Last edit: Chris Rimple 2021-02-03