I've been using Jamulus with pretty decent performance for a couple of
months now but I'm puzzled by the amazing lack of servers in my area.
Between Santa Barbara and San Diego there is only ONE server on the list
(mine)! Furthermore, there are very few musicians that get on it or any
other low latency server available to the Los Angeles area. I would
think that during this pandemic there would be a peak of use of Jamulus
and its ilk. And LA claims to be the entertainment capital of the world! Ha.
That's an interresting thought.
I note there are more servers in Newark NJ than in south California. Does that make Newark the entertainment capital of the US?
Using the server list as our data source, however, the entertainment capital of the world is either Frankfurt or London. :)
((I think the real reason for the lack of servers in CA is that most Californians, contrary to common belief, reject all forms and uses of new technology))
😕
1
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I am in So Cal and want to setup a server. Is there a server expert that can help me? How fast a connection do I need? My current speed is 227 mbps down and 11.32 mbps up
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Hi Scott - please have a look at the documentation here as it will answer your quesitons I hope. 11mps may be too slow, but it depends how many people you will be hosting.
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I am living in So Cal, too. And I am trying to set up a Server at home for our classical chamber ensemble.
Just found out that Cox won’t let residential customers to hosting servers at home: updated 4/24/2020 https://www.cox.com/aboutus/policies/acceptable-use-policy.html {5. Servers. You may not operate, or allow others to operate, servers of any type or any other device, equipment, and/or software providing server-like functionality in connection with the Service, unless expressly authorized by Cox. }
I don’t know if I must get a business account to host Jamulus server? Or I may try to find another ISP that allows me to host a Server as a residential customer. Any suggestions?
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Hi Wen - hosting servers at home can often not be the best option for various reasons. Putting the Jamulus server on a cloud host (eg Amazon) can often be a better option, since these can be "closer" to the musicians own ISPs. It may take some experimentation to find a cloud provider that works well for all the musicians as they may be on different ISPs though.
BTW please forgive me if you've already done this, but if you plan to rehearse regulary with your ensemble, I would first make sure that everyone has the necessary setup at home to do it. As the documentation says, the server is not the main determinant of sucessfully being able to use Jamulus. If you haven't already done so, I'd find a public server on your list that has a low ping time for everyone (say 20ms or below), all join that, solo eachother so that people not in your group cannot disturb you, and make sure that everyone's setup it working OK, that you are able to follow The Golden Rule of Jamulus, etc. etc.
Once all problems are resolved that way, embark on reserarthing and setting up your own cloud server to connect to.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hi! Gilgongo, Thank you for your prompt response and advices on our problem! I tested Jamulus on (1) built-in Mic and Speakers, (2) USB Mic, and (3) Scarlett 2i2 and shared my experience with our members. They are running the tests now and I am waiting for their feedback.
In Tomlinson’s FB article, he mentioned your guide to installing Jamulus Server onto an Ubuntu instance. And he selected a linux/unit platform, not Windows for Amazon's AWS Lightsail Instructions. I am not familiar with linux but I will work with others who are familiar with linux to find cloud hosting.
Besides the Chamber Ensemble, now our Church is interested in Jamulus, too. So, I hope more people will use Jamulus and enjoy playing music during the Pandemic.
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I think some people have run Windows servers on AWS for Jamulus (perhaps search on the forums). In theory it should be relatively easy I think, and all the Jamulus funcationality should be there. But I've not tried it so I don't know what issues there might be. Most people use Linux as it appears to be more flexible, but it depends.
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At the start of lockdown I experimented with various server configurations. I found no noticeable difference in performance between jamulus on Windows and jamulus on linux, using identical AWS instances/regions. So I'd recommend setting it up on Windows - much easier and basically works out of the box. Some people like messing about with linux, some people just want to play or sing together :).
Some time later we now regularly use a private (Windows) jamulus server on AWS. 99% of the time it's great. Occasionally we get drop outs - but mostly that can be traced to either forgetting to connect direct and using wi-fi, or lots of other streaming going on in the house (thank you Netflix for your automatic support of UHD streaming!).
The thing that took the most time to get right was getting the sound balance right for all the instruments so we could hear each other like we wanted --- nothing to do with jamulus per se, and I think we've been getting a glimps of what makes a sound engineer's job so difficult!
We've all gradually tried and tested different components and found the mics, headphones sound cards, VSTs etc. that work for us. My biggest "discovery" is how effective active noise canelling headphones can be at cutting down "direct" sound (rather than hearing myself via jamulus) - which can help a lot when i'm playing acoustic instruments like fiddle or mandolin. I'm using Sony WH-1000xm3.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
This is my first time in using AWS. It took 2 days to get my phone verified and my Account validated. I spent several hours navigating to Amazon EC2 to set up a Free Tier plan and used it with t2.micro instance, and a Windows Server 2019 AMI (followed Andrew).
After connecting to the Windows screen, I downloaded ASIO4ALL and Jamulus Software (not so easy, ended up using “direct link”, rather than “mirrors”, and tried couple times). I registered my Jamulus Server and was able to connect my Client on laptop to my registered Server (desktop). The ping time was 20 to 25 ms and overall delay was 48 to 52 ms (2.67 ms buffer delay).
The first run, I “terminated” the instance and lost everything. So, I tried a second time. This time, I made a private AMI, and “stop” the instance instead of “terminating” it. Later, I was able to restart the instance using my AMI.
Looks like that installing a Private Serve is not easy. However, we may change to use a Private Server if it is needed. Still a lot to learn!!
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[This Local Zone is designed to provide very low latency (single-digit milliseconds) to applications that are accessed from Los Angeles and other locations in Southern California. It will be of particular interest to highly-demanding applications that are particularly sensitive to latency. ]
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Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90 miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public server listings.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server
on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To
my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90
miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The
server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public
server listings.
Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server
on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To
my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90
miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The
server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public
server listings.
I get a ping time of 25 ms on conference.allyn.com in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:43 PM Scott Roewe scott.roewe@gmail.com wrote:
I get a ping time of 25 ms in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:42 AM Mark Allyn mallyn@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server
on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To
my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90
miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The
server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public
server listings.
Why aren't there any servers (or musicians) in Southern California?
I am fairly new to this, but I think that many things can affect the speed and latency.
The big factors as far as I can see are the distance between you and the server; the computing capacity of your machine as well as the server; and the network capacity both at your end and with the server.
In my own personal case, I have a high speed computer (I do video editing as well as some blender rendering), a 50 MB connection through Comcast, and I am in Bellingham. My traffic is routed from Bellingham through Seattle, than San Francisco, and then finally to Fremont and back.
The big hog, though is video. Unlike Zoom, Jamulus does not have video, therefor it is spared that capacity hog, both on the end point computing, the network, and the server computing.
I was told that with the current server that I have (single instance of Jamulus), I could handle about 20 or 30 connections (a small choir) based on the server capacity and it's network connection. The server is on the Linode cloud. Linode is a virtual servier vendor, similar to Amazon Web Services. As far as I know, no one has tried to have 50 people go through my server as of yet.
This is a paid server ($20.00) per month; as a current long time customer, I am not eligable for the intro free service. The plan that server is on allows up to 3 TB transfer per month. Right now, that machine, which has been up for about four days with people using it, has barely cracked 2 GB total, according to the dashboard. I firmly believe that I am barely touching Lindode's network capacity with the jamming that's been going on so far on that system. The computing capacity has maxed out at about 20 percent so far in the last two days.
I played some music on conference.allyn.com and it was working well. When I
access that server my ping time is 24 ms.
The server I created on AWS gives me a ping time of 41ms. I believe this
serve is in Oregon
What determines the speed of a server, the distance, the computer, the
download and the upload speed, the current traffic?
Anything else?
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:45 PM Scott Roewe sroewe@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
I get a ping time of 25 ms on conference.allyn.com in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:43 PM Scott Roewe scott.roewe@gmail.com wrote:
I get a ping time of 25 ms in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:42 AM Mark Allyn mallyn@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server
on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To
my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90
miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The
server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public
server listings.
I've been using Jamulus with pretty decent performance for a couple of
months now but I'm puzzled by the amazing lack of servers in my area.
Between Santa Barbara and San Diego there is only ONE server on the list
(mine)! Furthermore, there are very few musicians that get on it or any
other low latency server available to the Los Angeles area. I would
think that during this pandemic there would be a peak of use of Jamulus
and its ilk. And LA claims to be the entertainment capital of the world! Ha.
That's an interresting thought.
I note there are more servers in Newark NJ than in south California. Does that make Newark the entertainment capital of the US?
Using the server list as our data source, however, the entertainment capital of the world is either Frankfurt or London. :)
((I think the real reason for the lack of servers in CA is that most Californians, contrary to common belief, reject all forms and uses of new technology))
I am in So Cal and want to setup a server. Is there a server expert that can help me? How fast a connection do I need? My current speed is 227 mbps down and 11.32 mbps up
Hi Scott - please have a look at the documentation here as it will answer your quesitons I hope. 11mps may be too slow, but it depends how many people you will be hosting.
I am living in So Cal, too. And I am trying to set up a Server at home for our classical chamber ensemble.
Just found out that Cox won’t let residential customers to hosting servers at home: updated 4/24/2020 https://www.cox.com/aboutus/policies/acceptable-use-policy.html
{5. Servers. You may not operate, or allow others to operate, servers of any type or any other device, equipment, and/or software providing server-like functionality in connection with the Service, unless expressly authorized by Cox. }
I don’t know if I must get a business account to host Jamulus server? Or I may try to find another ISP that allows me to host a Server as a residential customer. Any suggestions?
Hi Wen - hosting servers at home can often not be the best option for various reasons. Putting the Jamulus server on a cloud host (eg Amazon) can often be a better option, since these can be "closer" to the musicians own ISPs. It may take some experimentation to find a cloud provider that works well for all the musicians as they may be on different ISPs though.
BTW please forgive me if you've already done this, but if you plan to rehearse regulary with your ensemble, I would first make sure that everyone has the necessary setup at home to do it. As the documentation says, the server is not the main determinant of sucessfully being able to use Jamulus. If you haven't already done so, I'd find a public server on your list that has a low ping time for everyone (say 20ms or below), all join that, solo eachother so that people not in your group cannot disturb you, and make sure that everyone's setup it working OK, that you are able to follow The Golden Rule of Jamulus, etc. etc.
Once all problems are resolved that way, embark on reserarthing and setting up your own cloud server to connect to.
Hi! Gilgongo, Thank you for your prompt response and advices on our problem! I tested Jamulus on (1) built-in Mic and Speakers, (2) USB Mic, and (3) Scarlett 2i2 and shared my experience with our members. They are running the tests now and I am waiting for their feedback.
In Tomlinson’s FB article, he mentioned your guide to installing Jamulus Server onto an Ubuntu instance. And he selected a linux/unit platform, not Windows for Amazon's AWS Lightsail Instructions. I am not familiar with linux but I will work with others who are familiar with linux to find cloud hosting.
Besides the Chamber Ensemble, now our Church is interested in Jamulus, too. So, I hope more people will use Jamulus and enjoy playing music during the Pandemic.
I think some people have run Windows servers on AWS for Jamulus (perhaps search on the forums). In theory it should be relatively easy I think, and all the Jamulus funcationality should be there. But I've not tried it so I don't know what issues there might be. Most people use Linux as it appears to be more flexible, but it depends.
At the start of lockdown I experimented with various server configurations. I found no noticeable difference in performance between jamulus on Windows and jamulus on linux, using identical AWS instances/regions. So I'd recommend setting it up on Windows - much easier and basically works out of the box. Some people like messing about with linux, some people just want to play or sing together :).
Some time later we now regularly use a private (Windows) jamulus server on AWS. 99% of the time it's great. Occasionally we get drop outs - but mostly that can be traced to either forgetting to connect direct and using wi-fi, or lots of other streaming going on in the house (thank you Netflix for your automatic support of UHD streaming!).
The thing that took the most time to get right was getting the sound balance right for all the instruments so we could hear each other like we wanted --- nothing to do with jamulus per se, and I think we've been getting a glimps of what makes a sound engineer's job so difficult!
We've all gradually tried and tested different components and found the mics, headphones sound cards, VSTs etc. that work for us. My biggest "discovery" is how effective active noise canelling headphones can be at cutting down "direct" sound (rather than hearing myself via jamulus) - which can help a lot when i'm playing acoustic instruments like fiddle or mandolin. I'm using Sony WH-1000xm3.
This is my first time in using AWS. It took 2 days to get my phone verified and my Account validated. I spent several hours navigating to Amazon EC2 to set up a Free Tier plan and used it with t2.micro instance, and a Windows Server 2019 AMI (followed Andrew).
After connecting to the Windows screen, I downloaded ASIO4ALL and Jamulus Software (not so easy, ended up using “direct link”, rather than “mirrors”, and tried couple times). I registered my Jamulus Server and was able to connect my Client on laptop to my registered Server (desktop). The ping time was 20 to 25 ms and overall delay was 48 to 52 ms (2.67 ms buffer delay).
The first run, I “terminated” the instance and lost everything. So, I tried a second time. This time, I made a private AMI, and “stop” the instance instead of “terminating” it. Later, I was able to restart the instance using my AMI.
Looks like that installing a Private Serve is not easy. However, we may change to use a Private Server if it is needed. Still a lot to learn!!
This is a good news for Jamulus users in Southern California.
https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/aws-now-available-from-a-local-zone-in-los-angeles/
[This Local Zone is designed to provide very low latency (single-digit milliseconds) to applications that are accessed from Los Angeles and other locations in Southern California. It will be of particular interest to highly-demanding applications that are particularly sensitive to latency. ]
Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90 miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public server listings.
I get a ping time of 25 ms in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:42 AM Mark Allyn mallyn@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
--
Music Teacher
New Roads High School
Music Director
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Clarita
I get a ping time of 25 ms on conference.allyn.com in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:43 PM Scott Roewe scott.roewe@gmail.com wrote:
--
Music Teacher
New Roads High School
Music Director
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Clarita
I played some music on conference.allyn.com and it was working well. When I
access that server my ping time is 24 ms.
The server I created on AWS gives me a ping time of 41ms. I believe this
serve is in Oregon
What determines the speed of a server, the distance, the computer, the
download and the upload speed, the current traffic?
Anything else?
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:45 PM Scott Roewe sroewe@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
--
Music Teacher
New Roads High School
Music Director
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Clarita
Folks:
I am fairly new to this, but I think that many things can affect the speed and latency.
The big factors as far as I can see are the distance between you and the server; the computing capacity of your machine as well as the server; and the network capacity both at your end and with the server.
In my own personal case, I have a high speed computer (I do video editing as well as some blender rendering), a 50 MB connection through Comcast, and I am in Bellingham. My traffic is routed from Bellingham through Seattle, than San Francisco, and then finally to Fremont and back.
The big hog, though is video. Unlike Zoom, Jamulus does not have video, therefor it is spared that capacity hog, both on the end point computing, the network, and the server computing.
I was told that with the current server that I have (single instance of Jamulus), I could handle about 20 or 30 connections (a small choir) based on the server capacity and it's network connection. The server is on the Linode cloud. Linode is a virtual servier vendor, similar to Amazon Web Services. As far as I know, no one has tried to have 50 people go through my server as of yet.
This is a paid server ($20.00) per month; as a current long time customer, I am not eligable for the intro free service. The plan that server is on allows up to 3 TB transfer per month. Right now, that machine, which has been up for about four days with people using it, has barely cracked 2 GB total, according to the dashboard. I firmly believe that I am barely touching Lindode's network capacity with the jamming that's been going on so far on that system. The computing capacity has maxed out at about 20 percent so far in the last two days.
I hope this helps.
Mark Allyn
From: "Scott Roewe" sroewe@users.sourceforge.net
To: "[llcon:discussion]" server@discussion.llcon.p.re.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 2:28:23 PM
Subject: [llcon:discussion] Re: Why aren't there any servers (or musicians) in Southern California?
I played some music on conference.allyn.com and it was working well. When I
access that server my ping time is 24 ms.
The server I created on AWS gives me a ping time of 41ms. I believe this
serve is in Oregon
What determines the speed of a server, the distance, the computer, the
download and the upload speed, the current traffic?
Anything else?
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:45 PM Scott Roewe sroewe@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
I get a ping time of 25 ms on conference.allyn.com in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:43 PM Scott Roewe scott.roewe@gmail.com wrote:
I get a ping time of 25 ms in Santa Monica
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:42 AM Mark Allyn mallyn@users.sourceforge.net
wrote:
Folks: If you are interested, I have set up an experimental public server
on a Linode Ubuntu system at the Linode Fremont, California data center. To
my home in Bellingham, Washington (northwestern Washington state about 90
miles north of Seattle), I am getting pings of about 25 to 30 ms. The
server is conference.allyn.com and it should be listed in the public
server listings.
Why aren't there any servers (or musicians) in Southern California? https://sourceforge.net/p/llcon/discussion/server/thread/19e733ddb7/?limit=25#fcbf
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https://sourceforge.net/p/llcon/discussion/server/
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--
Music Teacher
New Roads High School
Music Director
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Clarita
--
Music Teacher
New Roads High School
Music Director
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Clarita
Why aren't there any servers (or musicians) in Southern California?
https://sourceforge.net/p/llcon/discussion/server/thread/19e733ddb7/?limit=25#fcbf/49be/9760
Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in
https://sourceforge.net/p/llcon/discussion/server/
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--
Music Teacher
New Roads High School
Music Director
Unitarian Universalist Church of Santa Clarita
Why aren't there any servers (or musicians) in Southern California?
Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in https://sourceforge.net/p/llcon/discussion/server/
To unsubscribe from further messages, please visit https://sourceforge.net/auth/subscriptions/
--
Mark Allyn
Bellingham, Washington
www.allyn.com
Here in the Boston area, the best ping time for a cloud server is from Digital Ocean at about 15-20 ms. Azure is slower, and AWS is much slower.