Ok - so, many of us have mastered applying the tech of Jamulus - this great great creation of Volker Fischer - by now. Setup and tweaking becomes second nature after a short time and Jamulus really works. The number of users and servers is still going up, I guess the double time is now at g = 1d.
But with that come some observations:
many, many servers - few ever populated
when server populated, little music, lots of joining and leaving, lots of talking about what to play next
now often impossible to register a public server (even in the morning) due to 200 server limit
I want to say, now that tech pretty much works for many of us, should we not think about how we can increase the actual amount of music making = jamming ... like in the name: Jamulus.
Do not misunderstand me. Jamulus works great for scheduled rehearsals when all band members have overcome the initial tech challenges. And this is fantastic on its own.
I have tried to establish a daily (Jazz) Jam Session, but few people show up, if at all. I tried to have a curated setlist so people can get organized beforehand. Those who came hadn't seen it beforehand, so no effect from curation.
What could we do about it? - How can we have more Jamming on Jamulus?
Please share your thoughts and ideas with me!
👍
1
Last edit: Harro Heilmann 2020-04-23
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I think this might be because not everyone sees the same list of servers all the time, and when they do see them, only a minority of those servers will have good enough ping times for people to join them. The user survey we did showed that there was only a handful of servers with less than 30ms available to people even at the best of times. And bear in mind that one person's fast server is another's dead loss.
The server registration problem is an issue though to be sure.
👍
1
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And to take your topic in a slightly different direction, I often hear on Jamulus some players that are clearly professionals or semi-professionals, and who probably are missing the opportunity to earn at the moment.
Please identify yourselves somehow - maybe something like (€) at the end of your name to indicate that you are currently accepting paying students. A lot of us are not able to work with our regular teachers at the current time.
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Just an update to this which I hope might help with the empty server issue you describe.
Part of the issue of "ghost towns" (most common on internet forums) is that if you aren't sure who else is there, you might not want to participate. If you are, for example, a folk violinist, you don't want to be in a room with a death metal drummer (and vice versa). But if a room is empty and labelled "Folk" you might be more willing to hang out on your own until, say, a folk guitarist arrives.
A forthcoming change to Jamulus introduces (optional) genre-based server registration. This means that when you set up a server you can also specify its genre so that musicians who want to join servers can then select the genre in their server list and browse that. Assuming death metal server hosts don't register in the Folk genre, for example, then this might improve the situation perhaps.
(BTW I think this featue is in fact mainly to address the technical issue of the "200 server limit" by spreading servers over several Central Servers.)
Last edit: Gilgongo 2020-05-17
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Gilgongo, Thanks for your reply. Much appreciate you sharing all that good info. You’re helping to codify Jamulus’ etiquette! I shall carry forth with your ideas in mind. Cheers!
Just an update to this which I hope might help with the empty server issue you describe.
Part of the issue of "ghost towns" (most common on internet forums) is that if you aren't sure who else is there, you might not want to participate. If you are, for example, a folk violinist, you don't want to be in a room with a death metal drummer (and vice versa). But if a room is empty and labelled "Folk" you might be more willing to hang out on your own until, say, a folk guitarist arrives.
A forthcoming change to Jamulus introduces (optional) genre-based server registration. This means that when you set up a server you can also specify its genre so that musicians who want to join servers can then select the genre in their server list and browse that. Assuming death metal server hosts don't register in the Classical genre, for example, then this might improve the situation perhaps.
(BTW I think this featue is in fact mainly to address the technical issue of the "200 server limit" by spreading servers over several Central Servers.)
One thing I've done is to add a link to a Google Doc to my server welcome message. I haven't seen people use it much (though someone emailed me the other day asking how my server worked so well).
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Are you in America or Europe or somewhere else ... there is a new central server just for America that is not populated to the same extend as the original European based central server - that could be a reason
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Some people (me included) see very small numbers of servers listed. This is something to do with our client not being able to "ping" the servers listed by the central server. The user survey we did showed that the majority (78) of the 100 respondents said they saw more than they could count, with 19 seeing between 10 and 20. It's a bit mysterious.
What ISP are you with? I'm on Virgin Cable.
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I'm using a SuperHub2ac, which doesn't have an option to filter partial
packets, but I've turned of the firewall so I assume that does the same
thing.
My suspicion is that I have an iffy switch on my network that's not able to
handle large numbers of UDP requests or something. I might try plugging my
PC directly into my Virgin router's ethernet port to see if that helps. I
also wonder if a similar issue might be behind occasional reports of blank
server lists.
So this post was the one post meant about making music and not about us hussling around with soft- and hardware - sure, nothing against that, but 99% of the forum is already focused around tweaking and tech ... which is great, as I said.
My intention here was to talk about how we can make more music using Jamulus (... and less about server lists as important as that issue is).
Please share your thoughts on how we can increase our creative productivity with Jamulus and all those nice (but often idling) severs. Should we have set times for session, session playlists ... Wozld people who run servers be willing to facilitate some level of curation before and during sessions ... I have no idea if I am being besides the point or if this is actually going in the right direction ...
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To get back on topic - I managed to do a 30 minute jam session that worked well. You can hear it online because, surprisingly, somebody was recording in the main server for about 8 hours.
To get back on topic - I managed to do a 30 minute jam session that worked well. You can hear it online because, surprisingly, somebody was recording in the main server for about 8 hours.
Recognizable, i suppose lots of servers would be better off being private (also because of their poor connection). Also the musical level can skip from ok to zero in a short time. If there are 10 people in the room, and I hear just a guitar playing the low E, and nothing in the chat I tend to look for another room quite easily. Perhaps the facebook community like https://feedback.facebook.com/groups/507047599870191/ is a better place to meet up and get something done, and get more regular connections to jam.
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I think the problem (at least in my part of the planet) is that musicians are not tech-heads. The best players I know, and a good deal of the at least competent players, have no idea how to even use a digital interface, let alone making an entire system work so they can jam on the internet. This is a human problem, not a technical one. Maybe I can make a few bucks with a Raspberry Pi "black box" that does it all automagically :)
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I'm a classical musician (professional freelance cellist), and I've been trying to recruit friends and colleagues to using Jamulus. I think it has lots of potential, not just now during the COVID-19 pandemic, but for the future as well. Lots of people are interested in the concept. But I think it's true that most are not very tech savvy, and so intimidated by having to install software, and maybe even some drivers, and then learn to use it.
I think everyone would agree that Jamulus is not the most user-friendly application around. This is not in any way a criticism of Volker and all the others that have contributed to producing this wonderful tool. It is just a common feature of non-commercial projects developed by and for the people that use them. The software works really well, and if you understand what's going on, the interface is also quite good. But for someone jumping in, with little technical understanding, it can be difficult to get started.
I think the best way to deal with this is to keep encouraging and helping our friends to install and use Jamulus.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Exactly. I think we need to work on reducing the barriers to use that Jamulus presents--and I'm not talking about just using the software. I could figure out the software but I didn't have the right hardware, and I didn't even know that I didn't. It has taken awhile to get functioning. Would a "getting started" doc, that people could just download, help? If people have complex issues or issues with specific setups, send them to the forums but some people are intimidated by having to search through forum posts to find help.
Also, I'm thinking I could have used a "Tech Support" server. How would that work? Maybe if you owned a server and when you were willing/able to be online and help people, you could indicate that somehow in the server list? Publicize this in the Getting Started doc??
What do you think @gilgongo ? I am willing/able to volunteer for this & related tasks. I have >10 years experience as a user interface designer/usability person and technical writer (mostly online help systems).
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I very much agree with David Zelinsky that one of the best things we can do is help other musicians get up and running with Jamulus. I cant count how many of my musician friends that are tech challenged.
BTW, is it ok to simply connect to any empty server that has low ping rate to have a jam with friends? Do people feel a sense of ownership of the servers? It seems like a bit of work to set one up. Thanks.
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is it ok to simply connect to any empty server that has low ping rate to have a jam with friends?
In general, yes. The "spirit" of Jamulus is (as it's name implies) to jam with other people regardless if you know them or not. It's a social experience.
That said, some servers you see might say they are operated by bands and are therefore sort of private if that band it using them a the time. What I think tends to happen in that case though is that they simply solo eachother so that they won't hear anyone else. And you can mute them out and carry on, or just find another server.
Give it a go! :-)
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Ok - so, many of us have mastered applying the tech of Jamulus - this great great creation of Volker Fischer - by now. Setup and tweaking becomes second nature after a short time and Jamulus really works. The number of users and servers is still going up, I guess the double time is now at g = 1d.
But with that come some observations:
I want to say, now that tech pretty much works for many of us, should we not think about how we can increase the actual amount of music making = jamming ... like in the name: Jamulus.
Do not misunderstand me. Jamulus works great for scheduled rehearsals when all band members have overcome the initial tech challenges. And this is fantastic on its own.
I have tried to establish a daily (Jazz) Jam Session, but few people show up, if at all. I tried to have a curated setlist so people can get organized beforehand. Those who came hadn't seen it beforehand, so no effect from curation.
What could we do about it? - How can we have more Jamming on Jamulus?
Please share your thoughts and ideas with me!
Last edit: Harro Heilmann 2020-04-23
I think this might be because not everyone sees the same list of servers all the time, and when they do see them, only a minority of those servers will have good enough ping times for people to join them. The user survey we did showed that there was only a handful of servers with less than 30ms available to people even at the best of times. And bear in mind that one person's fast server is another's dead loss.
The server registration problem is an issue though to be sure.
And to take your topic in a slightly different direction, I often hear on Jamulus some players that are clearly professionals or semi-professionals, and who probably are missing the opportunity to earn at the moment.
Please identify yourselves somehow - maybe something like (€) at the end of your name to indicate that you are currently accepting paying students. A lot of us are not able to work with our regular teachers at the current time.
Just an update to this which I hope might help with the empty server issue you describe.
Part of the issue of "ghost towns" (most common on internet forums) is that if you aren't sure who else is there, you might not want to participate. If you are, for example, a folk violinist, you don't want to be in a room with a death metal drummer (and vice versa). But if a room is empty and labelled "Folk" you might be more willing to hang out on your own until, say, a folk guitarist arrives.
A forthcoming change to Jamulus introduces (optional) genre-based server registration. This means that when you set up a server you can also specify its genre so that musicians who want to join servers can then select the genre in their server list and browse that. Assuming death metal server hosts don't register in the Folk genre, for example, then this might improve the situation perhaps.
(BTW I think this featue is in fact mainly to address the technical issue of the "200 server limit" by spreading servers over several Central Servers.)
Last edit: Gilgongo 2020-05-17
Gilgongo, Thanks for your reply. Much appreciate you sharing all that good info. You’re helping to codify Jamulus’ etiquette! I shall carry forth with your ideas in mind. Cheers!
Sent from my iPhone
One thing I've done is to add a link to a Google Doc to my server welcome message. I haven't seen people use it much (though someone emailed me the other day asking how my server worked so well).
Even with the --showallservers option, just now I see a total of 4 running servers with only 2 musicans in total.
Are you sure the number of users and servers is going up?
Are you in America or Europe or somewhere else ... there is a new central server just for America that is not populated to the same extend as the original European based central server - that could be a reason
I'm in UK. Earlier this month I could see lots of UK servers and musicians.
But for me the number of servers has been going down quickly, day by day. It has been a while since I saw a UK server.
I don't see your Ostfildern Jazz Lounge, for example. Is it still up ?
Some people (me included) see very small numbers of servers listed. This is something to do with our client not being able to "ping" the servers listed by the central server. The user survey we did showed that the majority (78) of the 100 respondents said they saw more than they could count, with 19 seeing between 10 and 20. It's a bit mysterious.
What ISP are you with? I'm on Virgin Cable.
I see all 200 all the time, i'm on virgin cable too. You have unset the "Filter partial packets" on the virgin router config advanced page right?
I'm using a SuperHub2ac, which doesn't have an option to filter partial
packets, but I've turned of the firewall so I assume that does the same
thing.
My suspicion is that I have an iffy switch on my network that's not able to
handle large numbers of UDP requests or something. I might try plugging my
PC directly into my Virgin router's ethernet port to see if that helps. I
also wonder if a similar issue might be behind occasional reports of blank
server lists.
https://github.com/corrados/jamulus/issues/132
So this post was the one post meant about making music and not about us hussling around with soft- and hardware - sure, nothing against that, but 99% of the forum is already focused around tweaking and tech ... which is great, as I said.
My intention here was to talk about how we can make more music using Jamulus (... and less about server lists as important as that issue is).
Please share your thoughts on how we can increase our creative productivity with Jamulus and all those nice (but often idling) severs. Should we have set times for session, session playlists ... Wozld people who run servers be willing to facilitate some level of curation before and during sessions ... I have no idea if I am being besides the point or if this is actually going in the right direction ...
Apologies - the fact that SourceForge sends emails without it being very clear what thread they apply to makes it too easy to fork conversations.
...and pls dont misunderstand me: This was meant in the nicest of all thinkable ways ... many thx for all your contributions!
Sorry Harro !! ;)
To get back on topic - I managed to do a 30 minute jam session that worked well. You can hear it online because, surprisingly, somebody was recording in the main server for about 8 hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUk4QX-m1ck
The jam session starts around 56 minutes into the video.
For me there is no point to try to plan too much in advance, but I will try to do something similar regularly and see what it turns into.
Hi,
hey that is great - thx.
Now I also understand what this Pyros person is all about. Because he seemed to just spoil sessions with weird noise. So there is a sense in all that.
Things are developing in the right direction everywhere. I had a great session yesterday.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Harro
We even had Volker join in on drums :)
Oh, wow, very interesting. I had also a great session yesterday ... The Chicken and All Blues for quite some while and very nice!
I was wondering what the user Pyros is all about, now I understand ...
Recognizable, i suppose lots of servers would be better off being private (also because of their poor connection). Also the musical level can skip from ok to zero in a short time. If there are 10 people in the room, and I hear just a guitar playing the low E, and nothing in the chat I tend to look for another room quite easily. Perhaps the facebook community like https://feedback.facebook.com/groups/507047599870191/ is a better place to meet up and get something done, and get more regular connections to jam.
I think the problem (at least in my part of the planet) is that musicians are not tech-heads. The best players I know, and a good deal of the at least competent players, have no idea how to even use a digital interface, let alone making an entire system work so they can jam on the internet. This is a human problem, not a technical one. Maybe I can make a few bucks with a Raspberry Pi "black box" that does it all automagically :)
I'm a classical musician (professional freelance cellist), and I've been trying to recruit friends and colleagues to using Jamulus. I think it has lots of potential, not just now during the COVID-19 pandemic, but for the future as well. Lots of people are interested in the concept. But I think it's true that most are not very tech savvy, and so intimidated by having to install software, and maybe even some drivers, and then learn to use it.
I think everyone would agree that Jamulus is not the most user-friendly application around. This is not in any way a criticism of Volker and all the others that have contributed to producing this wonderful tool. It is just a common feature of non-commercial projects developed by and for the people that use them. The software works really well, and if you understand what's going on, the interface is also quite good. But for someone jumping in, with little technical understanding, it can be difficult to get started.
I think the best way to deal with this is to keep encouraging and helping our friends to install and use Jamulus.
Exactly. I think we need to work on reducing the barriers to use that Jamulus presents--and I'm not talking about just using the software. I could figure out the software but I didn't have the right hardware, and I didn't even know that I didn't. It has taken awhile to get functioning. Would a "getting started" doc, that people could just download, help? If people have complex issues or issues with specific setups, send them to the forums but some people are intimidated by having to search through forum posts to find help.
Also, I'm thinking I could have used a "Tech Support" server. How would that work? Maybe if you owned a server and when you were willing/able to be online and help people, you could indicate that somehow in the server list? Publicize this in the Getting Started doc??
What do you think @gilgongo ? I am willing/able to volunteer for this & related tasks. I have >10 years experience as a user interface designer/usability person and technical writer (mostly online help systems).
I very much agree with David Zelinsky that one of the best things we can do is help other musicians get up and running with Jamulus. I cant count how many of my musician friends that are tech challenged.
BTW, is it ok to simply connect to any empty server that has low ping rate to have a jam with friends? Do people feel a sense of ownership of the servers? It seems like a bit of work to set one up. Thanks.
In general, yes. The "spirit" of Jamulus is (as it's name implies) to jam with other people regardless if you know them or not. It's a social experience.
That said, some servers you see might say they are operated by bands and are therefore sort of private if that band it using them a the time. What I think tends to happen in that case though is that they simply solo eachother so that they won't hear anyone else. And you can mute them out and carry on, or just find another server.
Give it a go! :-)