lightbringer-devel — General discussion on Bringer of Light: The Quest

[Lightbringer-devel] Re: BoL -Gameplay doc - Vote - by 10th Sept 2005

[Simon <sim...@em...>]

> Gameplay:
> 
> Controls:
> 
> Keyboard and mouse combination. For example: W,A,S,D
> for direction of movement. Left mouse for actions,
> right mouse for invetory, etc...
vote for whatever puts less stress on the hands
> 
> Display:
> 
> Main screen with overlay. Overlay will include:
> Minimap, health bar and (other).
> 
> Other options, two item holding boxes, for weapons,
> spell use or item use. With Functional key quick menu
> for other items.
> 
> Graphics:
> 
> The game will be in 3rd person prepective (3PP), but
> we have the follwoing graphics options:
> 
> 1) 50 to 60 frame rate, but a lower polygon game. So
> graphics standard taken down a notch, to improve
> gameplay, loadability and general cross the board
> gaming.
>
> 2) 30 frame rate, better graphcis. Aimed at the higher
> end of the processor/graphics card group.
> 
> 3) Or other?
> 
> Also, with the 3PP with have a few choices:
> 
> 1) Fixed camara, so some kind of enforced isometic
> view.
> 
> 2) Ability to rotate camara 360 degrees.
> 
> 3) The above option with ability to move the camara on
> the vertical plane.
> 
> 4) Number 3 option, with a first person prepestive
> added.
I vote for tomb raider/dungeon siege like view and 4).
> 
> Combat:
> 
> The options for battle system are:
> 
> 1) Combat takes place on normal screen.
> 
> 2) Combat takes place in battle area. (like FF7) 
> 
> 3) Another form of combat, ie like a card battle (like
> magic TG)
> 
> 4) Turn-based figthing, (fallout).The game is in  real
> time.
> 
Here I'd go with the 1st option.
> 
> The hitting options we have a few options here.
> 
> 1) To hit enemy, purely skill based option. Where
> characters skill is the only element taken into
> acount.
> 
> 2) Running bar, this is a bar upon the screen. Where
> the close the bar becomes to being full, the character
> has an increase chance of hitting the enemy.
> 
> 3) Combination of the above two.
> 
> 4) Other.
> 
I'd vote for a combination and make the stats more involved in hitting 
the enemy.
> Jumping Character:
> 
> 1) Plain jump, to help character move around uneven
> scenery.
> 
> 2) additional jump, for use with jump related puzzles.
> 
> 3) Additonal tomb raider type play, hanging on ledges,
> jumping, etc... Taking the best elements into the
> game, so game is not just hack and slash.
> 
> An idea here. All the skills mentioned above: jumping,
> running, 
> climbing... could be assembled into one skill(maybe
> name it Athletics).
> Higher skill in it would mean the character will run
> faster, jump 
> higher..could be incorporated in some quests. Cheers,
> Simon.
> 
> 
that's all

Cheers, Simon.

[Lightbringer-devel] Developer Guidelines

[Team D. <tea...@gm...>]

Hello All,
             I'm now getting on track with the development, sorry for
my absense :( but it was home related issue.Below is a sample set of
Guidelines that we would
like to implement,with respect to development.These were conceived to
streamline development and provide a starting point to new
developers.Any and all input would be welcomed and we can vote on any
aspects that may be disputed :).

1. Coding Style
    As we all have our own diverse coding styles, a single agreed upon
style (e.g. K & R ) with a corresponding indentation ( 4 spaces tab
width?) would give
all the sourcefiles a uniform and intuitive appearance. There is also
the issue of the various platforms that the developers might use and
the different
CR/LF characters that they use, using the gnu indent program may
eliminate this problem.This, most likely, will be a topic that may
need some voting as it may
require the change of many of our ingrown habits (guilty :) ). You can
vote by simply replying to this thread with your votes/comments and
your suggested Styles, Naming Conventions and Indentation formats.

2. Updating
    With respect to updating the cvs directory,two notification
approaches were concieved.

i. After all updates, a cvs comment must be added, this comment must
include the authors name and the changes made.

ii. A Changes File could be created that will contain information
about contributions.Here is the suggested format of this file.

*****************************
DATE
AUTHOR
COMMENTS
FILES-UPDATED
*****************************

The Changes File is merely for archival and troubleshooting
purposes,one should be created per module,we can use either one of
these schemes or a mix of both, we're open to any other suggestions.

iii. Module Creation
Before any new modules are created a request must be sent to the
project leaders and the other developers notified via the mailing
list.This is merely a way
of avoiding too many structural changes to the cvs directory
(especially  module removal,which takes a lot of time on sourceforge).

iv. File Creation
Any new files created should be followed by an announcment via the mailing =
list.

v. File Deletion
As above, any removal of files (whether created by you or not).Should
be preceded be a request to the project leaders and a notification to
the developers
via the mailing list.

3. Documentation
To help us down the road in maintenance, certain information must be
contained in the source files.Every file must contain a section that
deal with the files
purpose,functions contained and any relavent notes. e.g.

*******************************
FILENAME:
PURPOSE:
NOTES:
EXPORTED FUNCTIONS:
******************************

Also before every function a section must be created that should
contain the following information:

/*
function name
function parameters
function comments
*/

These may be painful initially but they may be (hopefully)rarely updated.

4. Tools
Since there are two development platforms currently in use, this is
even more important.It is the sole responsibility of the developer to
maintain the versions that are currently supported. We will try ,as a
team, to choose the most generic tools that can be used to create the
sources, A development platform thread will be created to facilitate
this, It will contain all the software and their versions used to
create the program.As such all new and current members will be asked
to maintain a certain development environment depending on platform.
This is another topic that may/may not require voting.

This is all that I have for now,as I expect that we will need to
formalize and standardise on these practices, since it was suggested
in a recent post that a
complete code rewrite be done,this may end up being relatively
painless.I'm looking forward to your correspondence on this topic and
your votes :).

Regards,
Kenneth Parris
euro_guru - Admin

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] Code Development Plan

[stephen t. <stu...@ya...>]

Hi,

This looks like an excellent outline. I do agree with
Ozan, when every task should be broken down into a
different module. Plus tasks should be broken up.

Kenneth is currently working on the coding guidelines,
so with this plan, the vote on gameplan and the
guidelines. Everything should be in place for the
development plan for the game.

The following will be the development team break down,
for coders only:

Kenneth parris = Mainatanier

Seth Yastrov = Prioty task coder

Dan = Support task coder

NanoCoder = Secondary task coder

Track and PK = Advisors and support coders

This is based upon the avilablity of the coders. If
you are mentioned on this list and have comments,
please feel free to contact me.
---
Stephen Turner

--- Seth Yastrov <sya...@gm...> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have a little plan to kick start the coding side
> of BoL development.
> 
> 1) Start with a fresh CS project template.
> 
> The current code is obsolete, and is hard to develop
> with. It makes it rather 
> difficult to add new functionality. Additionally,
> there are some old things that 
> can be removed and others that are not needed.
> Specifically, BWS is obsoleted by 
> the CEGUI wrapper and the housebuilder is not
> something that is particularly 
> useful to our project, seeing as a house is better
> created in a 3D modeling package.
> 
> The project has been through several years of
> joining/departing members. 
> Therefore, it is not unexpected that some parts of
> the code are obsolete and do 
> not follow the best practices. My suggestion is to
> start a new CVS module and 
> reuse only parts of the code that are needed. The
> rest will be left behind in 
> the old module. That said, I don't believe that
> there are many parts of the old 
> code that are useful. Since this plan explains an
> approach that uses CEL 
> extensively and some new plugins, it is highly
> unlikely we'll use very much of 
> the old code.
> 
> As for the name of this module, I think "bol" would
> be a good choice, as this is 
> how most of us refer to the game (and we wouldn't
> have to worry about case 
> sensitivity). If possible, the old module can be
> renamed to "bolold" or similar.
> 
> 2) Start making the GUI using CEGUI
> (http://www.cegui.org.uk/).
> 
> Swedishcoder and I have just finished the CEGUI
> wrapper plugin, which integrates 
> the CEGUI toolkit into CS. It is not in the Crystal
> Space CVS yet, but will be 
> shortly.
> 
> CEGUI is a good choice for our game GUI because it
> is mature, flexible, and does 
> not require us to spend extra time developing one
> specifically for our game.
> 
> Here are the screens that we need:
> 
>    1) Main screen - New Game, Load Game, Options,
> Quit
>    2) New Game - This is the character creation
> screen.
>    3) Load Game - Allow the user to browse through
> saved game files by name.
>    4) Options - Controls, Graphics, Audio, Game
> screens
> 
> At this point, the GUI will be there, but not yet
> functional (except for Quit 
> and the buttons leading to other screens).
> 
> 3) Implement new game screen.
> 
> Basically, enter character name and race. This will
> be expanded later.
> Hitting the Create button will create a new CEL
> entity representing the 
> character with appropriate property classes
> (inventory, pcmesh, characteristics, 
> actormove, pclinmove, etc). Then an intro can be
> played (this is for later, 
> there's no need to wait until it's ready).
> 
> 4) Place player into starting zone and use zone
> management.
> 
> We will use the CEL zone manager to handle
> loading/unloading of zones. For more 
> info, read the Zoned World Proposal discussion.
> 
> At this point, the player should be able to walk
> around and go freely about the 
> world with the zone manager handling all
> loading/unloading.
> 
> 5) Implement saving and loading using CEL
> serialization.
> 
> The easiest way to implement saving and loading is
> to use CEL for everything 
> that matters to the game state. Then these objects
> can be serialized and 
> deserialized to a file to save and load the game
> state.
> 
> At this point the player can walk around, and save
> and load their character.
> 
> 6) Create in-game GUI.
> 
> Create a small panel of buttons that can be used to
> access different 
> character-related windows: Stats, Inventory/Equip,
> Spells.
> 
> Create health and mana bars. Create any other HUD
> items we need.
> 
> 7) Implement stats.
> 
> This will require us to go back to the character
> creation screen and add a GUI 
> for stat allocation. Then, on creation, these stats
> will be attached to the 
> player entity. They will be saved appropriately.
> 
> We will also implement the stats window.
> 
> 8) Implement inventory dragging/equip.
> 
> Make the functionality to drag items from the
> inventory to different slots and 
> to equip weapons and armor.
> 
> Use Cal3d sockets to attach equipment to player
> (through CEL).
> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
>  From here on, it is not so straightforward, and we
> need more discussion, but I 
> list these steps anyway, in increasing order of
> complexity.
> 
> 
> 9) Implement NPC dialogue system.
> 
> Make an NPC dialogue system using Python scripted
> CEL behaviours which load the 
> dialogues from files.
> 
> 10) Write combat system.
> 
> This is a core part of our game and needs some
> discussion before we get to 
> implementing it.
> 
> 11) Write spell system.
> 
> This can be added onto the combat system. Also,
> provide functionality to the 
> Spell window.
> 
> 12) Write quest system.
> 
> Another core part of our game, and this one also
> needs some discussion. Ideally, 
> we can use the CEL quest property classes and extend
> them with our own 
> propclasses and behaviours if necessary.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
> The BoL editor:
> 
> This should provide editing of all game systems in
> BoL.
> It will be developed as each functionality is added
> to the game that must have 
> an editor.
> 
> It should include:
> 
>    1) NPC dialogue editor
>    2) Quest editor
>    3) Spell editor
>    4) Entity placement and propclass assignment
>    5) Behaviour editing
> 
> It will not include map editing, which will be done
> in a 3D editor, such as Blender.
> 
> ----------------------------------
> 
> Once we have done the first few steps, we will
> already have a nice base for the 
> more complex functionality that will be added later.
> 
> I propose that we make an alpha release as soon as
> we finish the basic steps to 
> attract new developers and artists. Hopefully this
> release will have some 
> 
=== message truncated ===





	
	
		
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[Lightbringer-devel] BoL -Gameplay doc - Vote - by 10th Sept 2005

[stephen t. <stu...@ya...>]

Find below the options to vote upon for the gameplay
review. Please select which option you would like to
see in the game, this vote is open to all developers
on the team, using the voting system i posted a few
weeks ago. The closing date for the vote is 10th
September 2005.

Please feel free to make any comments at this stage,
as we will take everything on board. Before the final
vote is counted. 
-
Stephen Turner
-
Gameplay:

Controls:

Keyboard and mouse combination. For example: W,A,S,D
for direction of movement. Left mouse for actions,
right mouse for invetory, etc...

Display:

Main screen with overlay. Overlay will include:
Minimap, health bar and (other).

Other options, two item holding boxes, for weapons,
spell use or item use. With Functional key quick menu
for other items.

Graphics:

The game will be in 3rd person prepective (3PP), but
we have the follwoing graphics options:

1) 50 to 60 frame rate, but a lower polygon game. So
graphics standard taken down a notch, to improve
gameplay, loadability and general cross the board
gaming.

2) 30 frame rate, better graphcis. Aimed at the higher
end of the processor/graphics card group.

3) Or other?

Also, with the 3PP with have a few choices:

1) Fixed camara, so some kind of enforced isometic
view.

2) Ability to rotate camara 360 degrees.

3) The above option with ability to move the camara on
the vertical plane.

4) Number 3 option, with a first person prepestive
added.

Combat:

The options for battle system are:

1) Combat takes place on normal screen.

2) Combat takes place in battle area. (like FF7) 

3) Another form of combat, ie like a card battle (like
magic TG)

4) Turn-based figthing, (fallout).The game is in  real
time.


The hitting options we have a few options here.

1) To hit enemy, purely skill based option. Where
characters skill is the only element taken into
acount.

2) Running bar, this is a bar upon the screen. Where
the close the bar becomes to being full, the character
has an increase chance of hitting the enemy.

3) Combination of the above two.

4) Other.

Jumping Character:

1) Plain jump, to help character move around uneven
scenery.

2) additional jump, for use with jump related puzzles.

3) Additonal tomb raider type play, hanging on ledges,
jumping, etc... Taking the best elements into the
game, so game is not just hack and slash.

An idea here. All the skills mentioned above: jumping,
running, 
climbing... could be assembled into one skill(maybe
name it Athletics).
Higher skill in it would mean the character will run
faster, jump 
higher..could be incorporated in some quests. Cheers,
Simon.










		
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[Lightbringer-devel] it's my turn to say something

[<oza...@gm...>]

yes i do need a development plan. something like a roadmap. it does
not need to be detailed but it need to be usefull.

secondly, i think that we should creates parts of game so that any
part can be debuged and hacked compelity indipendent from other parts
(plug-in interface comes to mind). we need to develop a API for this
parts. API should not be changed unless it is really needed.

thirdly, some parts of the game should be maintanied by some guys and
at the top there should be only one guy. guy at the top will be
project leader. patches and other stuff about parts should be sent to
maintanier and/or its mailing list or main mailing list.

finally, we should quikly name the parts
=20
=20
--=20
Ozan

[Lightbringer-devel] Code Development Plan

[Seth Y. <sya...@gm...>]

Hi,

I have a little plan to kick start the coding side of BoL development.

1) Start with a fresh CS project template.

The current code is obsolete, and is hard to develop with. It makes it rather 
difficult to add new functionality. Additionally, there are some old things that 
can be removed and others that are not needed. Specifically, BWS is obsoleted by 
the CEGUI wrapper and the housebuilder is not something that is particularly 
useful to our project, seeing as a house is better created in a 3D modeling package.

The project has been through several years of joining/departing members. 
Therefore, it is not unexpected that some parts of the code are obsolete and do 
not follow the best practices. My suggestion is to start a new CVS module and 
reuse only parts of the code that are needed. The rest will be left behind in 
the old module. That said, I don't believe that there are many parts of the old 
code that are useful. Since this plan explains an approach that uses CEL 
extensively and some new plugins, it is highly unlikely we'll use very much of 
the old code.

As for the name of this module, I think "bol" would be a good choice, as this is 
how most of us refer to the game (and we wouldn't have to worry about case 
sensitivity). If possible, the old module can be renamed to "bolold" or similar.

2) Start making the GUI using CEGUI (http://www.cegui.org.uk/).

Swedishcoder and I have just finished the CEGUI wrapper plugin, which integrates 
the CEGUI toolkit into CS. It is not in the Crystal Space CVS yet, but will be 
shortly.

CEGUI is a good choice for our game GUI because it is mature, flexible, and does 
not require us to spend extra time developing one specifically for our game.

Here are the screens that we need:

   1) Main screen - New Game, Load Game, Options, Quit
   2) New Game - This is the character creation screen.
   3) Load Game - Allow the user to browse through saved game files by name.
   4) Options - Controls, Graphics, Audio, Game screens

At this point, the GUI will be there, but not yet functional (except for Quit 
and the buttons leading to other screens).

3) Implement new game screen.

Basically, enter character name and race. This will be expanded later.
Hitting the Create button will create a new CEL entity representing the 
character with appropriate property classes (inventory, pcmesh, characteristics, 
actormove, pclinmove, etc). Then an intro can be played (this is for later, 
there's no need to wait until it's ready).

4) Place player into starting zone and use zone management.

We will use the CEL zone manager to handle loading/unloading of zones. For more 
info, read the Zoned World Proposal discussion.

At this point, the player should be able to walk around and go freely about the 
world with the zone manager handling all loading/unloading.

5) Implement saving and loading using CEL serialization.

The easiest way to implement saving and loading is to use CEL for everything 
that matters to the game state. Then these objects can be serialized and 
deserialized to a file to save and load the game state.

At this point the player can walk around, and save and load their character.

6) Create in-game GUI.

Create a small panel of buttons that can be used to access different 
character-related windows: Stats, Inventory/Equip, Spells.

Create health and mana bars. Create any other HUD items we need.

7) Implement stats.

This will require us to go back to the character creation screen and add a GUI 
for stat allocation. Then, on creation, these stats will be attached to the 
player entity. They will be saved appropriately.

We will also implement the stats window.

8) Implement inventory dragging/equip.

Make the functionality to drag items from the inventory to different slots and 
to equip weapons and armor.

Use Cal3d sockets to attach equipment to player (through CEL).

----------------------------------

 From here on, it is not so straightforward, and we need more discussion, but I 
list these steps anyway, in increasing order of complexity.


9) Implement NPC dialogue system.

Make an NPC dialogue system using Python scripted CEL behaviours which load the 
dialogues from files.

10) Write combat system.

This is a core part of our game and needs some discussion before we get to 
implementing it.

11) Write spell system.

This can be added onto the combat system. Also, provide functionality to the 
Spell window.

12) Write quest system.

Another core part of our game, and this one also needs some discussion. Ideally, 
we can use the CEL quest property classes and extend them with our own 
propclasses and behaviours if necessary.

----------------------------------

The BoL editor:

This should provide editing of all game systems in BoL.
It will be developed as each functionality is added to the game that must have 
an editor.

It should include:

   1) NPC dialogue editor
   2) Quest editor
   3) Spell editor
   4) Entity placement and propclass assignment
   5) Behaviour editing

It will not include map editing, which will be done in a 3D editor, such as Blender.

----------------------------------

Once we have done the first few steps, we will already have a nice base for the 
more complex functionality that will be added later.

I propose that we make an alpha release as soon as we finish the basic steps to 
attract new developers and artists. Hopefully this release will have some 
nice-looking art that the player can walk around through. Ideally, it would 
include the NPC dialogue system to make it more interesting.

 From there on, we can release new versions for each major system we add. Then, 
the releases will be primarily art- or game-related, and for code, mostly 
bug-fixing.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome, of course.

Regards,
Seth

[Lightbringer-devel] Re: BoL -Gameplay doc - Preview

[Simon <sim...@em...>]

stephen turner wrote:
> Find below the options so far in the gameplay review.
> If you can think of anything i have missed, or would
> like to add something. Please respond by the 27th Aug
> 2005. As this is the date i will be sending the doc
> out to all team members via the mailing list for the
> vote.
> -
> Stephen Turner
> 
> Gameplay:
> 
> Controls:
> 
> Keyboard and mouse combination. For example: W,A,S,D
> for direction of movement. Left mouse for actions,
> right mouse for invetory, etc...
> 
> Display:
> 
> Main screen with overlay. Overlay will include:
> Minimap, health bar and (other).
> 
> Other options, if any?
> 
I'm wondering here how the player will access his abilities(spells, 
items,...) if the view will be tomb raider-like. Mostly how would one 
access these things during a fight in a most convenient way. Keyboard 
shortcuts are nice for experienced players but most would want some kind 
of GUI to represent these things. If the mouse will be used for free 
look/turning I guess a nice solution would be to have two modes. One 
when the player controls the view with the mouse, and the other where 
the character is 'focused' on one of the enemies while the player is 
using the gui to perform magic, use item etc.
However if the mouse isn't used for free look, it would be a lot easier.
And freelook would be optional(holding a key?). This would also confuse 
many players that are used to the default freelook on the many todays games.

> Graphics:
> 
> The game will be in 3rd person prepective (3PP), but
> we have the follwoing graphics options:
> 
> 1) 50 to 60 frame rate, but a lower polygon game. So
> graphics standard taken down a notch, to improve
> gameplay, loadability and general cross the board
> gaming.
> 
> 2) 30 frame rate, better graphcis. Aimed at the higher
> end of the processor/graphics card group.
> 
> 3) Or other?
> 
> Also, with the 3PP with have a few choices:
> 
> 1) Fixed camara, so some kind of enforced isometic
> view.
> 
> 2) Ability to rotate camara 360 degrees.
> 
> 3) The above option with ability to move the camara on
> the vertical plane.
> 
> 4) Number 3 option, with a first person prepestive
> added.
> 
I suggest we test and see which view is the most useful/immersive. The 
fact that the player will jump around, do some athletic stuff means that 
tomb raider-like cam would be most appropriate. I think in 1st person 
view it'll be very hard to control the player(maybe make it optional for 
hardcore playrs:)), and same applies to an isometric(baldur's gate like) 
view.

> Combat:
> 
> The options for battle system are:
> 
> 1) Combat takes place on normal screen.
> 
> 2) Combat takes place in battle area. (like FF7) 
> 
> 3) Another form of combat, ie like a card battle (like
> magic TG)
> 

Number 1 sounds good. The second choice would give the game a 
tournament-like feel. Don't know if it will fit with the overall feel of 
the game. Maybe if you described it more. IMHO more detail is needed to 
describe the combat system since it will make up a large part of the 
game. This would deserve it's own thread.

> The hitting options we have a few options here.
> 
> 1) To hit enemy, purely skill based option. Where
> characters skill is the only element taken into
> acount.
> 

Since we're making an rpg it would make sense to let character stats 
influence the combat to some degree.

> 2) Running bar, this is a bar upon the screen. Where
> the close the bar becomes to being full, the character
> has an increase chance of hitting the enemy.
> 
> 3) Combination of the above two.
> 
> 4) Other.
> 
> Jumping Character:
> 
> 1) Plain jump, to help character move around uneven
> scenery.
> 
> 2) additional jump, for use with jump related puzzles.
> 
> 3) Additonal tomb raider type play, hanging on ledges,
> jumping, etc... Taking the best elements into the
> game, so game is not just hack and slash.
> 
> 

An idea here. All the skills mentioned above: jumping, running, 
climbing... could be assembled into one skill(maybe name it Athletics).
Higher skill in it would mean the character will run faster, jump 
higher..could be incorporated in some quests.

Cheers, Simon.

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] BoL -Gameplay doc - Preview

[<oza...@gm...>]

On 20/08/05, stephen turner <stu...@ya...> wrote:
> Find below the options so far in the gameplay review.
> If you can think of anything i have missed, or would
> like to add something. Please respond by the 27th Aug
> 2005. As this is the date i will be sending the doc
> out to all team members via the mailing list for the
> vote.
> -
> Stephen Turner
>=20
> Gameplay:
>=20
> Controls:
>=20
> Keyboard and mouse combination. For example: W,A,S,D
> for direction of movement. Left mouse for actions,
> right mouse for invetory, etc...
>=20
> Display:
>=20
> Main screen with overlay. Overlay will include:
> Minimap, health bar and (other).
>=20
> Other options, if any?
>=20
> Graphics:
>=20
> The game will be in 3rd person prepective (3PP), but
> we have the follwoing graphics options:
>=20
> 1) 50 to 60 frame rate, but a lower polygon game. So
> graphics standard taken down a notch, to improve
> gameplay, loadability and general cross the board
> gaming.
>=20
> 2) 30 frame rate, better graphcis. Aimed at the higher
> end of the processor/graphics card group.
>=20
> 3) Or other?
>=20
> Also, with the 3PP with have a few choices:
>=20
> 1) Fixed camara, so some kind of enforced isometic
> view.
>=20
> 2) Ability to rotate camara 360 degrees.
>=20
> 3) The above option with ability to move the camara on
> the vertical plane.
>=20
> 4) Number 3 option, with a first person prepestive
> added.
>=20
> Combat:
>=20
> The options for battle system are:
>=20
> 1) Combat takes place on normal screen.
>=20
> 2) Combat takes place in battle area. (like FF7)
>=20
> 3) Another form of combat, ie like a card battle (like
> magic TG)
>=20

what about Fall-out style battle ?

> The hitting options we have a few options here.
>=20
> 1) To hit enemy, purely skill based option. Where
> characters skill is the only element taken into
> acount.
>=20
> 2) Running bar, this is a bar upon the screen. Where
> the close the bar becomes to being full, the character
> has an increase chance of hitting the enemy.
>=20
> 3) Combination of the above two.
>=20
> 4) Other.
>=20
> Jumping Character:
>=20
> 1) Plain jump, to help character move around uneven
> scenery.
>=20
> 2) additional jump, for use with jump related puzzles.
>=20
> 3) Additonal tomb raider type play, hanging on ledges,
> jumping, etc... Taking the best elements into the
> game, so game is not just hack and slash.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yaho=
o! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
> September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practic=
es
> Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & Q=
A
> Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf
> _______________________________________________
> Lightbringer-devel mailing list
> Lig...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lightbringer-devel
>=20


--=20
Ozan

[Lightbringer-devel] BoL -Gameplay doc - Preview

[stephen t. <stu...@ya...>]

Find below the options so far in the gameplay review.
If you can think of anything i have missed, or would
like to add something. Please respond by the 27th Aug
2005. As this is the date i will be sending the doc
out to all team members via the mailing list for the
vote.
-
Stephen Turner

Gameplay:

Controls:

Keyboard and mouse combination. For example: W,A,S,D
for direction of movement. Left mouse for actions,
right mouse for invetory, etc...

Display:

Main screen with overlay. Overlay will include:
Minimap, health bar and (other).

Other options, if any?

Graphics:

The game will be in 3rd person prepective (3PP), but
we have the follwoing graphics options:

1) 50 to 60 frame rate, but a lower polygon game. So
graphics standard taken down a notch, to improve
gameplay, loadability and general cross the board
gaming.

2) 30 frame rate, better graphcis. Aimed at the higher
end of the processor/graphics card group.

3) Or other?

Also, with the 3PP with have a few choices:

1) Fixed camara, so some kind of enforced isometic
view.

2) Ability to rotate camara 360 degrees.

3) The above option with ability to move the camara on
the vertical plane.

4) Number 3 option, with a first person prepestive
added.

Combat:

The options for battle system are:

1) Combat takes place on normal screen.

2) Combat takes place in battle area. (like FF7) 

3) Another form of combat, ie like a card battle (like
magic TG)

The hitting options we have a few options here.

1) To hit enemy, purely skill based option. Where
characters skill is the only element taken into
acount.

2) Running bar, this is a bar upon the screen. Where
the close the bar becomes to being full, the character
has an increase chance of hitting the enemy.

3) Combination of the above two.

4) Other.

Jumping Character:

1) Plain jump, to help character move around uneven
scenery.

2) additional jump, for use with jump related puzzles.

3) Additonal tomb raider type play, hanging on ledges,
jumping, etc... Taking the best elements into the
game, so game is not just hack and slash.






		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] Re: trying to compile the game under linux

[<har...@te...>]

About the Note, how recent, and under wich OS. A few weeks/days ago I add=
ed=20
fixes for the latest changes in CS. But I only made sure it worked in msv=
c.=20
I will try to take a look at it this weekend and make sure it compiles ag=
ain=20
(with latest CS and CEL cvs) under both windows and linux.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Simon" <sim...@em...>
To: <lig...@li...>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 6:20 PM
Subject: [Lightbringer-devel] Re: trying to compile the game under linux


> You should check for three things. First of all you need the cvs versio=
n=20
> of CS compiled for this to work. Next the CRYSTAL variable should point=
 to=20
> the dir of the compiled CS. If these two things fail check if you=20
> installed CS and uninstall it, then try with ./configure again.
>
> Note: due to recent changes in cvs many files won't compile.
>
> Ozan T=FCrky=FDlmaz wrote:
>> On 13/08/05, Simon <sim...@em...> wrote:
>>
>>>I don't know exactly what are you having problems with. Post the entir=
e
>>>./configure and I could help you more.
>>>
>>
>> full configure output
>> checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
>> checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
>> checking how to create a directory... mkdir
>> checking how to create a directory tree... mkdir -p
>> checking for gcc... gcc
>> checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
>> checking whether the C compiler works... yes
>> checking whether we are cross compiling... no
>> checking for suffix of executables...
>> checking for suffix of object files... o
>> checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
>> checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
>> checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed
>> checking for g++... g++
>> checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... yes
>> checking whether g++ accepts -g... yes
>> checking if -shared is accepted... -shared
>> checking if -soname is accepted... yes
>> checking for install... install
>> checking for ranlib... ranlib
>> checking for Crystal Space - version >=3D 0.99... Unknown lib: crystal=
space
>> Usage: cs-config [OPTIONS] [LIBRARIES]
>> Options:
>>         [--prefix]
>>         [--exec-prefix]
>>         [--version]
>>         [--long-version]
>>         [--libdir]
>>         [--includedir]
>>         [--libs]
>>         [--cflags]
>>         [--cxxflags]
>>         [--makevars]
>>         [--help]
>> Libraries:
>>         csgeom
>>         csgfx
>>         cstool
>>         csutil
>>         csws
>>
>>
>> Note that the Crystal Space directory is detect by looking at the CRYS=
TAL
>> environment variable. Make sure this variable is set correctly.
>> Unknown lib: crystalspace
>> Usage: cs-config [OPTIONS] [LIBRARIES]
>> Options:
>>         [--prefix]
>>         [--exec-prefix]
>>         [--version]
>>         [--long-version]
>>         [--libdir]
>>         [--includedir]
>>         [--libs]
>>         [--cflags]
>>         [--cxxflags]
>>         [--makevars]
>>         [--help]
>> Libraries:
>>         csgeom
>>         csgfx
>>         cstool
>>         csutil
>>         csws
>>
>>
>> Note that the Crystal Space directory is detect by looking at the CRYS=
TAL
>> environment variable. Make sure this variable is set correctly.
>> no
>> configure: error:
>> *** Crystal Space could not be found. The latest version is always=20
>> available
>> *** from http://crystal.sourceforge.net/
>> *** Also, be sure that you have either installed Crystal Space or set =
the
>> *** CRYSTAL environment variable properly.
>> with export CRYSTAL=3D~/CS/ (it's CS ful source code)
>>
>>>Ozan T=FCrky=FDlmaz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 12/08/05, Track <de...@nc...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Ozan
>>>>>
>>>>>It should point to the root of CS tree (where file "Jamfile.in" is
>>>>>located for example).
>>>>>On my system, it's set as follows: CRYSTAL=3DD:\Devel\CS
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>did this CRYSTAL=3D ~/CS but cs-config run and give useless info abou=
t
>>>>usage and configure said no cs at all
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>Track
>>>>>
>>>>>Ozan T=FCrky=FDlmaz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
> September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle=20
> Practices
> Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing &=
 QA
> Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5=
sf
> _______________________________________________
> Lightbringer-devel mailing list
> Lig...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lightbringer-devel=20

[Lightbringer-devel] Re: trying to compile the game under linux

[Simon <sim...@em...>]

You should check for three things. First of all you need the cvs version 
of CS compiled for this to work. Next the CRYSTAL variable should point 
to the dir of the compiled CS. If these two things fail check if you 
installed CS and uninstall it, then try with ./configure again.

Note: due to recent changes in cvs many files won't compile.

Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:
> On 13/08/05, Simon <sim...@em...> wrote:
> 
>>I don't know exactly what are you having problems with. Post the entire
>>./configure and I could help you more.
>>
> 
> full configure output
> checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
> checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
> checking how to create a directory... mkdir
> checking how to create a directory tree... mkdir -p
> checking for gcc... gcc
> checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out
> checking whether the C compiler works... yes
> checking whether we are cross compiling... no
> checking for suffix of executables...
> checking for suffix of object files... o
> checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
> checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
> checking for gcc option to accept ANSI C... none needed
> checking for g++... g++
> checking whether we are using the GNU C++ compiler... yes
> checking whether g++ accepts -g... yes
> checking if -shared is accepted... -shared
> checking if -soname is accepted... yes
> checking for install... install
> checking for ranlib... ranlib
> checking for Crystal Space - version >= 0.99... Unknown lib: crystalspace
> Usage: cs-config [OPTIONS] [LIBRARIES]
> Options:
>         [--prefix]
>         [--exec-prefix]
>         [--version]
>         [--long-version]
>         [--libdir]
>         [--includedir]
>         [--libs]
>         [--cflags]
>         [--cxxflags]
>         [--makevars]
>         [--help]
> Libraries:
>         csgeom
>         csgfx
>         cstool
>         csutil
>         csws
> 
> 
> Note that the Crystal Space directory is detect by looking at the CRYSTAL
> environment variable. Make sure this variable is set correctly.
> Unknown lib: crystalspace
> Usage: cs-config [OPTIONS] [LIBRARIES]
> Options:
>         [--prefix]
>         [--exec-prefix]
>         [--version]
>         [--long-version]
>         [--libdir]
>         [--includedir]
>         [--libs]
>         [--cflags]
>         [--cxxflags]
>         [--makevars]
>         [--help]
> Libraries:
>         csgeom
>         csgfx
>         cstool
>         csutil
>         csws
> 
> 
> Note that the Crystal Space directory is detect by looking at the CRYSTAL
> environment variable. Make sure this variable is set correctly.
> no
> configure: error:
> *** Crystal Space could not be found. The latest version is always available
> *** from http://crystal.sourceforge.net/
> *** Also, be sure that you have either installed Crystal Space or set the
> *** CRYSTAL environment variable properly.
> with export CRYSTAL=~/CS/ (it's CS ful source code)
> 
>>Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:
>>
>>>On 12/08/05, Track <de...@nc...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Ozan
>>>>
>>>>It should point to the root of CS tree (where file "Jamfile.in" is
>>>>located for example).
>>>>On my system, it's set as follows: CRYSTAL=D:\Devel\CS
>>>>
>>>
>>>did this CRYSTAL= ~/CS but cs-config run and give useless info about
>>>usage and configure said no cs at all
>>>
>>>
>>>>Regards
>>>>Track
>>>>
>>>>Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
>>>>>
>>
>>

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] BoL - Polygons

[Seth Y. <sya...@gm...>]

stephen turner wrote:
> If possible, i think it would be better to use
> skeletal base over a mesh base. As these work faster,
> if this viable with CS?

It is certainly possible. CS has a plugin for Cal3d, a skeletal-based Character 
Animation Library. There are Blender, 3dsmax, and Milkshape exporters for the 
Cal3d format.

-Seth

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] cel? what cel ?

[<har...@te...>]

You need to set the variable CEL, like you did with CRYSTAL, iirc you mig=
ht=20
also have to set the variable BRINGER (this might perhaps need to point t=
o=20
the parent dir of BOL and not BOL itself)

/ Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Ozan T=FCrkyilmaz" <oza...@gm...>
To: <lig...@li...>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: [Lightbringer-devel] cel? what cel ?


cel is installed but game says can't inititaze cel
is there a config about that ?

under SlackWare 10.1
--=20
Ozan


-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practic=
es
Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & Q=
A
Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf
_______________________________________________
Lightbringer-devel mailing list
Lig...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lightbringer-devel=20

[Lightbringer-devel] cel? what cel ?

[<oza...@gm...>]

cel is installed but game says can't inititaze cel
is there a config about that ?

under SlackWare 10.1
--=20
Ozan

[Lightbringer-devel] BoL - Polygons

[stephen t. <stu...@ya...>]

Well like i mentioned this is only a rough guide. :)
Thanks for the feed back, this is the kind of thing we
need to know.

Not all linux users have top end machines, for example
my linux box only has a 700Mhz processor with a Nvidia
TNT 2 (32mb) card. Talk about slow. :)

If possible, i think it would be better to use
skeletal base over a mesh base. As these work faster,
if this viable with CS?

Cheers,
Steve

--- Pascal Kirchdorfer
<kir...@us...> wrote:

> > 108 triangles (aprox) for hero.
> > Arpox polygons count for on screen is 54,000 when
> > counting 500 hero's. With a speed between 32-284
> fps.
> >
> > Rough Guide for game view:
> >
> >Game map 18,000. Buildings 18,000 and Characters
> 18,000.
> >
> >Comments?
> >
> 
> iirc, if the hero is that gingerbread guy, does it
> have zfighting? if so,
> you loose a lot there for nothing.
> That means the same polycount might be a lot faster
> if there is no
> zflighting.
> 
> Example, one of my opentree trees with 74696
> vertices draw at ~ 52 FPS, and
> that's on a NV FX5200 with is said to be as fast as
> a GF2/3 :-)
> Also keep in mind that when bol is in a state you
> want to release it,
> everyone will probably have a Nvidia 8600GTXXL or
> so...
> 
> In general I suggest creating highpoly meshes and
> then create normalmaps for
> the lowpoly versions.
> 
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software
> Conference & EXPO
> September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA *
> Development Lifecycle Practices
> Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects
> & Teams * Testing & QA
> Security * Process Improvement & Measurement *
> http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf
> _______________________________________________
> Lightbringer-devel mailing list
> Lig...@li...
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lightbringer-devel
> 



		
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Re: [Lightbringer-devel] Re: trying to compile the game under linux

[<oza...@gm...>]

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Re: [Lightbringer-devel] BoL - Polygons

[Pascal K. <kir...@us...>]

> 108 triangles (aprox) for hero.
> Arpox polygons count for on screen is 54,000 when
> counting 500 hero's. With a speed between 32-284 fps.
>
> Rough Guide for game view:
>
>Game map 18,000. Buildings 18,000 and Characters 18,000.
>
>Comments?
>

iirc, if the hero is that gingerbread guy, does it have zfighting? if so,
you loose a lot there for nothing.
That means the same polycount might be a lot faster if there is no
zflighting.

Example, one of my opentree trees with 74696 vertices draw at ~ 52 FPS, and
that's on a NV FX5200 with is said to be as fast as a GF2/3 :-)
Also keep in mind that when bol is in a state you want to release it,
everyone will probably have a Nvidia 8600GTXXL or so...

In general I suggest creating highpoly meshes and then create normalmaps for
the lowpoly versions.

[Lightbringer-devel] BoL - Polygons

[stephen t. <stu...@ya...>]

Dear Team,

Find below a brief report on the CS standard for
moving polygons. With a rough outline summary for the
break up of the polygons for in view game. Remember
the target is 50 to 60 fps.

Any comments of views taken on board.

- Test Machine:

Amd Athlon XP 2700+
Radeon 9600 XT

- FPS
Empty room:

(* and **): 750 fps

Room with 10 heroes:

* : 728 fps
** : 727 fps

Room with 100 heroes:

* : 277 fps
** : 284 fps

Room with 1000 heroes:

* : 32 fps
** : 32 fps

108 triangles (aprox) for hero.
Arpox polygons count for on screen is 54,000 when
counting 500 hero's. With a speed between 32-284 fps.

Rough Guide for game view:

Game map 18,000. Buildings 18,000 and Characters
18,000.

Comments?






	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Lightbringer-devel] Re: trying to compile the game under linux

[Simon <sim...@em...>]

I don't know exactly what are you having problems with. Post the entire 
./configure and I could help you more.

Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:
> On 12/08/05, Track <de...@nc...> wrote:
> 
>>Hi Ozan
>>
>>It should point to the root of CS tree (where file "Jamfile.in" is
>>located for example).
>>On my system, it's set as follows: CRYSTAL=D:\Devel\CS
>>
> 
> did this CRYSTAL= ~/CS but cs-config run and give useless info about
> usage and configure said no cs at all
> 
>>Regards
>>Track
>>
>>Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:
>>
>>
>>>okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
>>>

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] trying to compile the game under linux

[Track <de...@nc...>]

Hi Ozan

Is your problem in compilation or in running example programs?
If compilation, you better ask someone else, I didn't attempt to compile 
it in unix environment yet.
I think you need Jam installed, but maybe it's not the problem you have.

Regards
Track

Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:

>On 12/08/05, Track <de...@nc...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi Ozan
>>
>>It should point to the root of CS tree (where file "Jamfile.in" is
>>located for example).
>>On my system, it's set as follows: CRYSTAL=D:\Devel\CS
>>
>>    
>>
>did this CRYSTAL= ~/CS but cs-config run and give useless info about
>usage and configure said no cs at all
>  
>
>>Regards
>>Track
>>
>>Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [Lightbringer-devel] trying to compile the game under linux

[<oza...@gm...>]

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Re: [Lightbringer-devel] trying to compile the game under linux

[Track <de...@nc...>]

Hi Ozan

It should point to the root of CS tree (where file "Jamfile.in" is 
located for example).
On my system, it's set as follows: CRYSTAL=D:\Devel\CS

Regards
Track

Ozan Türkyılmaz wrote:

>okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
>  
>

[Lightbringer-devel] Re: trying to compile the game under linux

[Simon M. <sim...@em...>]

Hello,

if you installed Crystal Space into /home/user/CS it should point there(exp=
ort
CRYSTAL=3D/home/user/CS).

Cheers, Simon.

> okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
> --=20
> Ozan
>=20

____________________
http://www.email.si/

[Lightbringer-devel] trying to compile the game under linux

[<oza...@gm...>]

okey i installed CS but where should CRYSTAL var point to ?
--=20
Ozan

[Lightbringer-devel] Replies

[Simon <sim...@em...>]

Hey, 

I was wondering if you could email (Re)plies in such a way that the [Lightbringer-devel] stays before the
Subject at all times. Makes topics look more structured, sorting is easier. Usually if you get Re: at the beginning
of a subject it means it's a reply to a mail you send to a person, not a mailing list(this can become very confusing).

This: 
[Lightbringer-devel] Re: Topic
 instead of 
Re: [Lightbringer-devel] Topic

Thanks.

- Simon