Thread: [Lcms-user] Question about sRGB and rendering intent
An ICC-based CMM for color management
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From: Aaron B. <bo...@gm...> - 2021-09-14 14:22:00
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Hello! This question is not LCMS specific, but I figured this is a good place to ask a general CMS question: I have a PNG image in sRGB space with sRGB chunk (perceptual rendering intent) and also gAMMA and cHRM chunks for gamma and chromaticity. I am converting this image to JPEG 2000 format, which does not store rendering intent information. When I convert, I ignore the gamma and chroma info. Does it make sense to convert perceptual rendering intent into an ICC profile for display ? JPEG 2000 is able to store ICC profiles. Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Aaron |
From: Noel C. <NCa...@Pr...> - 2021-09-14 15:20:31
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Hi Aaron, How do you imagine these images being viewed? Online? On a device with a specific viewer application? What has gone Not all software handles all formats or even does color management properly. -Noel From: Aaron Boxer <bo...@gm...> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 10:22 AM To: lcm...@li... Subject: [Lcms-user] Question about sRGB and rendering intent Hello! This question is not LCMS specific, but I figured this is a good place to ask a general CMS question: I have a PNG image in sRGB space with sRGB chunk (perceptual rendering intent) and also gAMMA and cHRM chunks for gamma and chromaticity. I am converting this image to JPEG 2000 format, which does not store rendering intent information. When I convert, I ignore the gamma and chroma info. Does it make sense to convert perceptual rendering intent into an ICC profile for display ? JPEG 2000 is able to store ICC profiles. Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Aaron |
From: Aaron B. <bo...@gm...> - 2021-09-14 15:46:56
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Thanks, Noel. I have no idea how the images will eventually be viewed. I just don't want any color management information lost when the images are compressed. So, since I don't know how the images will be rendered, I guess it makes sense to suppress the origin perceptual rendering intent. Aaron On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 11:21 AM Noel Carboni < NCa...@pr...> wrote: > Hi Aaron, > > > > How do you imagine these images being viewed? Online? On a device with a > specific viewer application? What has gone > > > > Not all software handles all formats or even does color management > properly. > > > > -Noel > > > > *From:* Aaron Boxer <bo...@gm...> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 14, 2021 10:22 AM > *To:* lcm...@li... > *Subject:* [Lcms-user] Question about sRGB and rendering intent > > > > Hello! > > This question is not LCMS specific, but I figured this is a good place > > to ask a general CMS question: > > > > I have a PNG image in sRGB space with sRGB chunk (perceptual rendering > intent) and also gAMMA and cHRM chunks for gamma and chromaticity. I am > converting this image to JPEG 2000 > > format, which does not store rendering intent information. When I convert, > I ignore the gamma and chroma info. > > > > Does it make sense to convert perceptual rendering intent into an ICC > profile for display ? JPEG 2000 is able to store ICC profiles. > > > > Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Lcms-user mailing list > Lcm...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lcms-user > |
From: Marti M. <mar...@li...> - 2021-09-14 22:19:11
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Hi, My advice: just ignore gAMMA and cHRM chunks, they are just an approximation to sRGB space for non color-savvy readers. Embed the standard sRGB profile with relative colorimetric intent and this is colorimetrically correct and going to work in most situations. In the embedded profile you may use perceptual or relative colorimetric, but this indeed is an advanced topic. Please note that the image is already “in-gamut” so the meaning of the intent here is something completely different. if you use “relative colorimetric”: that means all RGB in the image have a direct correspondence with Lab. There is no color shifts or movements. The profile exactly identifies the Lab of each RGB triplet in a colorimetric way. if you use “perceptual”: That means the RGB has been tweaked to “look good” under whatever device the embedded profile represents. You can use the perceptual table A2B0 of the embedded profile to “undo” this preference mapping and obtain the original Lab values. Doing so may result in different appearance, but maybe close to the original image, whatever “original image” may mean. So, be careful with perceptual, as it can destroy images if you don’t know the gory details under the hood. Best regards Marti Maria. > On 14 Sep 2021, at 16:21, Aaron Boxer <bo...@gm...> wrote: > > Hello! > This question is not LCMS specific, but I figured this is a good place > to ask a general CMS question: > > I have a PNG image in sRGB space with sRGB chunk (perceptual rendering intent) and also gAMMA and cHRM chunks for gamma and chromaticity. I am converting this image to JPEG 2000 > format, which does not store rendering intent information. When I convert, I ignore the gamma and chroma info. > > Does it make sense to convert perceptual rendering intent into an ICC profile for display ? JPEG 2000 is able to store ICC profiles. > > Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks, > Aaron > _______________________________________________ > Lcms-user mailing list > Lcm...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lcms-user |
From: Aaron B. <bo...@gm...> - 2021-09-16 00:05:58
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Hi Marti, Thank you, I will continue to ignore gAMMA and cHRM. I think I can get away without an ICC profile, as I already indicate sRGB color space in the image header. My guess is that perceptual was simply chosen in the original file because it equals zero, which seems to be a sane default value, even if it isn't :) Best, Aaron On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 3:50 PM Marti Maria <mar...@li...> wrote: > > Hi, > > My advice: just ignore gAMMA and cHRM chunks, they are just an > approximation to sRGB space for non color-savvy readers. Embed the standard > sRGB profile with relative colorimetric intent and this is colorimetrically > correct and going to work in most situations. > > In the embedded profile you may use perceptual or relative colorimetric, > but this indeed is an advanced topic. Please note that the image is already > “in-gamut” so the meaning of the intent here is something completely > different. > > if you use “relative colorimetric”: that means all RGB in the image have a > direct correspondence with Lab. There is no color shifts or movements. The > profile exactly identifies the Lab of each RGB triplet in a colorimetric > way. > if you use “perceptual”: That means the RGB has been tweaked to “look > good” under whatever device the embedded profile represents. You can use > the perceptual table A2B0 of the embedded profile to “undo” this preference > mapping and obtain the original Lab values. Doing so may result in > different appearance, but maybe close to the original image, whatever > “original image” may mean. > > So, be careful with perceptual, as it can destroy images if you don’t know > the gory details under the hood. > > Best regards > Marti Maria. > > > > On 14 Sep 2021, at 16:21, Aaron Boxer <bo...@gm...> wrote: > > > > Hello! > > This question is not LCMS specific, but I figured this is a good place > > to ask a general CMS question: > > > > I have a PNG image in sRGB space with sRGB chunk (perceptual rendering > intent) and also gAMMA and cHRM chunks for gamma and chromaticity. I am > converting this image to JPEG 2000 > > format, which does not store rendering intent information. When I > convert, I ignore the gamma and chroma info. > > > > Does it make sense to convert perceptual rendering intent into an ICC > profile for display ? JPEG 2000 is able to store ICC profiles. > > > > Any insight here would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Aaron > > _______________________________________________ > > Lcms-user mailing list > > Lcm...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lcms-user > > |