Re: [Jython-users] the health of Jython

[Mike R. <mro...@ya...>]

(hopefully this a reply to Mark G in thread?)
... interesting.  Yes, I can see how one might feel short-changed if a CPython devotee and a Java-hater.
The slow startup time for Jython runs (to which I alluded in my second post a couple of days ago) will no doubt be giving generations of such students a bad image of Jython.  As a Jython author have you ever tried to tackle this aspect (e.g. by Nailgun)?
Mike

      From: "Guzdial, Mark" <gu...@cc...>
 To: Stefan Richthofer <Ste...@gm...>; "mro...@ya..." <mro...@ya...> 
Cc: "jyt...@li..." <jyt...@li...>
 Sent: Friday, 16 September 2016, 18:13
 Subject: Re: [Jython-users] the health of Jython
   
 <!--#yiv1337962315 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}-->> Apparently a lot of new programmers are being introduced to programming through CPython ... shouldn't the poor kids be learning Jython instead?

Actually, many of the students at University who are learning Python are actually learning Jython.  The textbook that Barbara Ericson and I wrote uses Jython: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Computing-Programming-Python-4th/dp/0134025547.  Last I saw market analysis, it's the third most popular Python University textbook, at least in the US.  If you read the reviews for the book, you'll see that lots of people are confused about Jython vs. Python.  Quoting one:
This book is a prescribed text for a course: that's the only reason to buy it. Its biggest problem: false advertising. This is NOT a book on Python, it's about JYTHON - A Java based imitation of Python.Why? Well, there's some pretty software, available to download, which uses the the JRE. The author chose to stick with this "easy learning environment" and basically cripple anyone wanting to write Python code for Blender, Maya, Android etc.
You may learn to program from this text, but don't expect a trouble-free life when you get exposed to the real language.
The IDE that we wrote for the book, JES, is all Jython, and has been used by thousands of students for over a decade now: See http://cacm.acm.org/blogs/blog-cacm/205801-14-years-of-a-learner-centered-python-ide/fulltext
- MarkFrom: Stefan Richthofer <Ste...@gm...>
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53:28 AM
To: mro...@ya...
Cc: jyt...@li...
Subject: Re: [Jython-users] the health of Jython Hello Mike, completely agree with you in most points. Mainly I'd like to hint to the  https://wiki.python.org/jython/IrcChannel as an alternative for posting questions.While not very active, it is at least rather responsive (usually within some hours or so).I think a keypoint would be to bring the homepage and Wiki up to date. E.g. I once experienced it hard to find setup instructions to get pip etc running, install modules for Jython, including clarification how or how not this interfers with a CPython installation or modules installed via a package manager in Linux. Often enough such stuff is only implicitly documented via stackoverflow or so. There are rumors a new homepage is upcoming via github pages, but I don't know about an official statement.Also the delay of Jython 2.7.1 isn't exactly beneficious for the issues you mention I guess.It appears all in all this boils down to a lack of manpower for maintaining Jython. But I agree that maybe organization structures could actually be more friendly for contributing to the wiki or homepage and other documentation. We should definitely think this over! > Apparently a lot of new programmers are being introduced to programming through CPython ... shouldn't the poor kids be learning Jython instead?A good starting point on this front would be an up-to-date getting-started-tutorial for Jython, including Java integration-hints. Maybe such a thing already exists somewhere (hints?), but I usually found such information rather spread over various places. Jython-book is usually the best source of information, but is also outdated and not exactly a tutorial. We would need something that covers Jython 2.7. So much for now. Have a nice weekend! -Stefan Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. September 2016 um 20:48 Uhr
Von: "Mike Rodent" <mro...@ya...>
An: "jyt...@li..." <jyt...@li...>
Betreff: [Jython-users] the health of JythonI love Jython ... and I think you people who develop it are geniuses. But just looking at the archives for this mailing list tells its own story.  In the early years you see hundreds of posts a month sometimes... in the whole of March this year there was precisely ONE post. As I understand it, Jython was quite actively developed in its early years, and then went a bit quiet, but is now getting developed quite actively (no doubt Jython 3 will provoke some more interest).  And yet there is nothing but this mailing list to pose questions, etc. Does no-one here think that a mailing list as the centre of the Jython community is slightly anachronistic in 2016?  Wouldn't a simple forum tend to encourage new users to sniff out the power of the language? The goodness of Jython should be evangelised!  Apparently a lot of new programmers are being introduced to programming through CPython ... shouldn't the poor kids be learning Jython instead? Just a thought!Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Jython-users mailing list Jyt...@li...https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users