From: Gary D. <wi...@gm...> - 2012-02-23 00:46:07
|
My company produces embedded devices with a web interface. We currently use Adobe Flex for the front-end but I am looking at alternatives. To be able to use Python for the front-end, I will gladly work around any reasonable limitations of Jython and we currently only use Python 2.4 on the server side, so being limited to 2.5 is not an issue. Execution speed is generally not an issue either as it will mostly be used for simple GUI elements and forms (trees, tables, simple charts, etc.) I am looking at using Jython with JavaFX. My main concern is future compatibility. These devices are designed to hang on the wall and forget about for years, except the occasional login to adjust parameters or download some historical data. I can't have the front-end break or require updating every time a new version of Java is released. Do any of you have any thoughts on this? If I settle on a particular version of Jython, will it generally be expected to work with any foreseeable updates to Java? I have never used Java and have no experience with how Oracle handles backward compatibility. Do older versions of Jython still work with current versions of Java? Thanks |
From: <fwi...@gm...> - 2012-02-23 17:14:08
|
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Gary Daniels <wi...@gm...> wrote: > > My company produces embedded devices with a web interface. We currently use > Adobe Flex for the front-end but I am looking at alternatives. > > To be able to use Python for the front-end, I will gladly work around any > reasonable limitations of Jython and we currently only use Python 2.4 on the > server side, so being limited to 2.5 is not an issue. > > Execution speed is generally not an issue either as it will mostly be used > for simple GUI elements and forms (trees, tables, simple charts, etc.) I am > looking at using Jython with JavaFX. > > My main concern is future compatibility. These devices are designed to hang > on the wall and forget about for years, except the occasional login to > adjust parameters or download some historical data. I can't have the > front-end break or require updating every time a new version of Java is > released. > > Do any of you have any thoughts on this? If I settle on a particular version > of Jython, will it generally be expected to work with any foreseeable > updates to Java? I have never used Java and have no experience with how > Oracle handles backward compatibility. Do older versions of Jython still > work with current versions of Java? I don't think you'd need to worry about future compatibility with Java. Sun (and now Oracle) are obsessed with backwards compatibility for each release of Java. I know that Jython 2.2 continues to work with the current version of Java. There was one instance where Java added a keyword (assert) and this broke Jython 2.1. However, new keywords in Java are exceedingly rare. If Oracle where to add a new keyword that conflicted with a Jython keyword this could cause a problem - but we would update Jython if this where to happen. Jython 2.2 is out of support, but I think we'd actually go back and update it if a new Java keyword where to break it (and we would *definitely* fix 2.5 if this happened). -Frank |
From: Jeff E. <jem...@fr...> - 2012-02-23 17:40:00
|
Wouldn't new Java keywords only affect you if you were to recompile Jython? I would think incompatible JDK library changes or JVM byte code changes are more likely to affect deployed code, and those are also extremely rare. I still use Jython 2.1 regularly on JDK 1.6.0_29 without any problems related to the newer JDK. On 2/23/2012 10:13 AM, fwi...@gm... wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Gary Daniels<wi...@gm...> wrote: >> My company produces embedded devices with a web interface. We currently use >> Adobe Flex for the front-end but I am looking at alternatives. >> >> To be able to use Python for the front-end, I will gladly work around any >> reasonable limitations of Jython and we currently only use Python 2.4 on the >> server side, so being limited to 2.5 is not an issue. >> >> Execution speed is generally not an issue either as it will mostly be used >> for simple GUI elements and forms (trees, tables, simple charts, etc.) I am >> looking at using Jython with JavaFX. >> >> My main concern is future compatibility. These devices are designed to hang >> on the wall and forget about for years, except the occasional login to >> adjust parameters or download some historical data. I can't have the >> front-end break or require updating every time a new version of Java is >> released. >> >> Do any of you have any thoughts on this? If I settle on a particular version >> of Jython, will it generally be expected to work with any foreseeable >> updates to Java? I have never used Java and have no experience with how >> Oracle handles backward compatibility. Do older versions of Jython still >> work with current versions of Java? > I don't think you'd need to worry about future compatibility with > Java. Sun (and now Oracle) are obsessed with backwards compatibility > for each release of Java. I know that Jython 2.2 continues to work > with the current version of Java. There was one instance where Java > added a keyword (assert) and this broke Jython 2.1. However, new > keywords in Java are exceedingly rare. If Oracle where to add a new > keyword that conflicted with a Jython keyword this could cause a > problem - but we would update Jython if this where to happen. Jython > 2.2 is out of support, but I think we'd actually go back and update it > if a new Java keyword where to break it (and we would *definitely* fix > 2.5 if this happened). > > -Frank > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Virtualization& Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning > Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing > also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ > _______________________________________________ > Jython-users mailing list > Jyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users |
From: <fwi...@gm...> - 2012-02-23 18:17:26
|
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Jeff Emanuel <jem...@fr...> wrote: > Wouldn't new Java keywords only affect you if you were to recompile Jython? > I would think incompatible JDK library changes or JVM byte code changes are > more likely to affect deployed code, and those are also extremely rare. > > I still use Jython 2.1 regularly on JDK 1.6.0_29 without any problems > related to the newer JDK. Oh yeah! You have a point Jeff - it is the compiling that is the trouble. I haven't tried 2.1 in a *long* time :) Thanks for the clarification! -Frank Jeff: sorry if you got multiple copies of this - I forgot to hit "reply-all". -Frank |
From: Gary D. <wi...@gm...> - 2012-02-23 22:42:18
|
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:17 PM, fwi...@gm... < fwi...@gm...> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Jeff Emanuel <jem...@fr...> wrote: > > Wouldn't new Java keywords only affect you if you were to recompile > Jython? > > I would think incompatible JDK library changes or JVM byte code changes > are > > more likely to affect deployed code, and those are also extremely rare. > > > > I still use Jython 2.1 regularly on JDK 1.6.0_29 without any problems > > related to the newer JDK. > Oh yeah! You have a point Jeff - it is the compiling that is the > trouble. I haven't tried 2.1 in a *long* time :) Thanks for the > clarification! > > -Frank > > Jeff: sorry if you got multiple copies of this - I forgot to hit > "reply-all". > Thanks for the responses. They gave me enough confidence to at least start initial testing with Jython. |
From: Gary D. <wi...@gm...> - 2012-02-23 22:36:52
|
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:27 AM, Stefan Eletzhofer < ste...@ne...> wrote: > > > > either as it will mostly be used for simple GUI elements and forms > (trees, tables, simple charts, etc.) I am looking at using Jython with > JavaFX. > Having done embedded linux in the past I know your pain … > > Have you considered to switch to a pure HTML UI, serving a local website > and using webkit as a display server? That way you > could dump the java gunk altogether ... > > I have considered HTML, but some of the things we need are graphical, so it would require a JavaScript library that I think would be even more likely to break with new versions of browsers, especially IE. > > > > My main concern is future compatibility. These devices are designed to > hang on the wall and forget about for years, except the occasional login to > adjust parameters or download some historical data. I can't have the > front-end break or require updating every time a new version of Java is > released. > > This is a concern we have, too. Especially the lack of news from the > Jython development team is worrying to me. We're > still on 2.5.2 after all, and looking at the commit logs there seems not > too much activity, nor is there much activity > on this list, either. > > For that matter, I've started to look at groovy. I would absolutely > **hate** to switch away from python, as we're > pretty much a python shop. > > I'm very motivated to make this work with Jython if I can. I did look at Groovy, and that is my (distant) second choice, but I'd have the same questions and concerns about it. I'm not even very worried about how often Jython is updated. Once the product is done and tested, we most likely would stick with that version unless there was a pressing reason to upgrade. My only real concern is that it doesn't break with Java updates. |