jython-users

[Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Stephen G. <sg...@hu...>]

Hi,

I was wondering if there's a timeline for a non-beta release of Jython. I'm
happy to try out the version marked as beta, but I'd prefer to wait if a
non-beta release is imminent.

For context, I'm currently working on upgrading my company's stack to Java
11 which I believe requires upgrading Jython as well (mainly because of the
ASM version, I think).

Thanks,
Steve

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Jeff M. <jef...@za...>]

I have found jython for 2.x to be exceedingly stable (thanks! wonderful
piece of work over the years!) .. though you need to halfway recent for
ssl/encryption changes and stability fixes.

Hijacking the thread though .. any news on jython3, or is there just nto
enough volunteer manpower? Every few months I google up and only find a
repo from 2017, and various threads or questions but no answers. (And I
wish I had time to jump in and help, same as everyone..)
--> but is jython3 essentially dead for now?

On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 9:57 AM Stephen Gutz <sg...@hu...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if there's a timeline for a non-beta release of Jython.
> I'm happy to try out the version marked as beta, but I'd prefer to wait if
> a non-beta release is imminent.
>
> For context, I'm currently working on upgrading my company's stack to Java
> 11 which I believe requires upgrading Jython as well (mainly because of the
> ASM version, I think).
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> Jython-users mailing list
> Jyt...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users
>


-- 

Jeff Mitchell

Sr Application Architect

Zayo | Our Fiber Fuels Global Innovation

1821 30th Street | Unit A | Boulder, CO  80301

Desk: 999.999.9999 | Cell: 999.999.9999

jef...@za...

Purpose <http://zayo.is/signature-purpose> | Network Map
<http://zayo.is/signature-network> | LinkedIn
<http://zayo.is/signature-linkedin> | Twitter
<http://zayo.is/signature-twitter>

This communication is the property of Zayo and may contain confidential or
privileged information. If you have received this communication in error,
please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of
the communication and any attachments.


He who dies with the best barbecue sauce, wins.

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Jeff A. <ja...@fa...>]

On 06/01/2020 14:40, Stephen Gutz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if there's a timeline for a non-beta release of 
> Jython. I'm happy to try out the version marked as beta, but I'd 
> prefer to wait if a non-beta release is imminent.

I find putting dates to things has not been reliable but I'm happy to 
say what lies between us and a 2.7.2 full release.

Issue https://bugs.jython.org/issue2834 looks like a blocker, not 
straightforward, and the fix sufficiently intrusive that we should not 
go straight to a release. So I expect the next thing to be a 2.7.2b3.

Six other issues are also ear-marked 2.7.2: three look easy, two are 
probably not blockers, one may be.

Jeff Allen

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Jeff A. <ja...@fa...>]

On 06/01/2020 15:49, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> I have found jython for 2.x to be exceedingly stable (thanks! 
> wonderful piece of work over the years!) .. though you need to halfway 
> recent for ssl/encryption changes and stability fixes.

I'm glad you've found it so. Although familiar mostly with its flaws, 
now and then I stand far enough back to recognise how remarkable an 
achievement it is, and that I have the privilege of contributing to.

> Hijacking the thread though .. any news on jython3, or is there just 
> nto enough volunteer manpower? Every few months I google up and only 
> find a repo from 2017, and various threads or questions but no 
> answers. (And I wish I had time to jump in and help, same as everyone..)
> --> but is jython3 essentially dead for now?

I don't think so. The main problem with that repo is that 2.7 moved on a 
lot since the fork, and since basic things like str changed from 2 to 3, 
there are technical problems merging. We also say amongst ourselves 
"we'll do that differently in 3" and it is difficult to see how you 
could, starting from there. 3 looks like a great opportunity for change, 
but the more one takes on, the longer it will be. Fortunately I have 
some time, but it has to be divided with 2.7.

Jeff Allen

>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 9:57 AM Stephen Gutz <sg...@hu... 
> <mailto:sg...@hu...>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I was wondering if there's a timeline for a non-beta release of
>     Jython. I'm happy to try out the version marked as beta, but I'd
>     prefer to wait if a non-beta release is imminent.
>
>     For context, I'm currently working on upgrading my company's stack
>     to Java 11 which I believe requires upgrading Jython as well
>     (mainly because of the ASM version, I think).
>
>     Thanks,
>     Steve
>     _______________________________________________
>     Jython-users mailing list
>     Jyt...@li...
>     <mailto:Jyt...@li...>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Jeff Mitchell
>
> Sr Application Architect
>
> Zayo | Our Fiber Fuels Global Innovation
>
> 1821 30th Street | Unit A | Boulder, CO  80301
>
> Desk: 999.999.9999 | Cell: 999.999.9999
>
> jef...@za... <mailto:jef...@za...>
>
> Purpose <http://zayo.is/signature-purpose>|Network Map 
> <http://zayo.is/signature-network>|LinkedIn 
> <http://zayo.is/signature-linkedin>| Twitter 
> <http://zayo.is/signature-twitter>
>
>
> This communication is the property of Zayo and may contain 
> confidential or privileged information. If you have received this 
> communication in error, please promptly notify the sender by reply 
> e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any attachments.
>

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Jeff M. <jef...@za...>]

> On 06/01/2020 15:49, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> > I have found jython for 2.x to be exceedingly stable (thanks!
> > wonderful piece of work over the years!) .. though you need to halfway
> > recent for ssl/encryption changes and stability fixes.
>
> I'm glad you've found it so. Although familiar mostly with its flaws,
> now and then I stand far enough back to recognise how remarkable an
> achievement it is, and that I have the privilege of contributing to.
>

Any big flaws we should know about? or you mean just internal design flaws,
which are inevitable for such a project? :)

> Hijacking the thread though .. any news on jython3, or is there just
> > nto enough volunteer manpower? Every few months I google up and only
> > find a repo from 2017, and various threads or questions but no
> > answers. (And I wish I had time to jump in and help, same as everyone..)
> > --> but is jython3 essentially dead for now?
>
> I don't think so. The main problem with that repo is that 2.7 moved on a
> lot since the fork, and since basic things like str changed from 2 to 3,
> there are technical problems merging. We also say amongst ourselves
> "we'll do that differently in 3" and it is difficult to see how you
> could, starting from there. 3 looks like a great opportunity for change,
> but the more one takes on, the longer it will be. Fortunately I have
> some time, but it has to be divided with 2.7.
>

Appreciate the insider view :) From the outside though .. I'd assume at
least a couple years before jython3 is usable.

Maybe update some 'signs of life' somewhere on the website or repo might be
wise, as I've seen a few people asking around this over the months? *shrug*

Thank you (and the team!) again!

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Stephen G. <sg...@hu...>]

Thanks for your responses, Jeffs. This was really helpful!

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:56 AM Jeff Mitchell <jef...@za...>
wrote:

>
> On 06/01/2020 15:49, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>> > I have found jython for 2.x to be exceedingly stable (thanks!
>> > wonderful piece of work over the years!) .. though you need to halfway
>> > recent for ssl/encryption changes and stability fixes.
>>
>> I'm glad you've found it so. Although familiar mostly with its flaws,
>> now and then I stand far enough back to recognise how remarkable an
>> achievement it is, and that I have the privilege of contributing to.
>>
>
> Any big flaws we should know about? or you mean just internal design
> flaws, which are inevitable for such a project? :)
>
> > Hijacking the thread though .. any news on jython3, or is there just
>> > nto enough volunteer manpower? Every few months I google up and only
>> > find a repo from 2017, and various threads or questions but no
>> > answers. (And I wish I had time to jump in and help, same as everyone..)
>> > --> but is jython3 essentially dead for now?
>>
>> I don't think so. The main problem with that repo is that 2.7 moved on a
>> lot since the fork, and since basic things like str changed from 2 to 3,
>> there are technical problems merging. We also say amongst ourselves
>> "we'll do that differently in 3" and it is difficult to see how you
>> could, starting from there. 3 looks like a great opportunity for change,
>> but the more one takes on, the longer it will be. Fortunately I have
>> some time, but it has to be divided with 2.7.
>>
>
> Appreciate the insider view :) From the outside though .. I'd assume at
> least a couple years before jython3 is usable.
>
> Maybe update some 'signs of life' somewhere on the website or repo might
> be wise, as I've seen a few people asking around this over the months?
> *shrug*
>
> Thank you (and the team!) again!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jython-users mailing list
> Jyt...@li...
>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users
>

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Jeff A. <ja...@fa...>]

On 13/01/2020 14:55, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
>     On 06/01/2020 15:49, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>     > I have found jython for 2.x to be exceedingly stable (thanks!
>     > wonderful piece of work over the years!) .. though you need to
>     halfway
>     > recent for ssl/encryption changes and stability fixes.
>
>     I'm glad you've found it so. Although familiar mostly with its flaws,
>     now and then I stand far enough back to recognise how remarkable an
>     achievement it is, and that I have the privilege of contributing to.
>
>
> Any big flaws we should know about? or you mean just internal design 
> flaws, which are inevitable for such a project? :)
>
Mostly unfixed bugs, test skips and implementation gaps. They're not 
hidden. A number of XXX and FIXME comments are scattered around the code 
base and we have a bug-tracker. Also, I wish there were better 
explanations of some of the cleverness. My point, however, is that when 
working mostly as a maintainer, and perfectionist, flaws loom large and 
one forgets that Jython is a significant intellectual feat that does a 
good job for many users in practice.

>
> Maybe update some 'signs of life' somewhere on the website or repo 
> might be wise, as I've seen a few people asking around this over the 
> months? *shrug*
>
> Thank you (and the team!) again!
>
You're welcome. The next beta will appear shortly in NEWS and if nothing 
really bad turns up, a release candidate in 2-3 weeks. A roadmap (for 
2.7.x and 3.x) would not be worth much except as declaration of intent 
to go that way.


Jeff Allen

Re: [Jython-users] 2.7.2 release schedule

[Jeff M. <jef...@za...>]

Personally, for a couple years I found jython + Vaadin (java web UI
framework) to be a Jython 'killer app' - that ease of use in bringing
python code to bear on a new UI app with tight integration to backend
(shared python code) is amazing (especially in parts of the shop that were
so accustomed to java or needed existing commercial java library
compatibility etc). However as Java evolved with newer syntax, and
frameworks like Vaadin have taken gratuitous advantage of it, its gotten
increasingly messy to determine workarounds for the new java syntax and
expressing it as jython code. Still, when timeframes got really crunchy,
Jython saved the day more than once :)

I assume you mean another RC for 2.7.x family, not for the 3.x? A roadmap
in general might be of value, but most important would be (for the 3.x
branch) the signs of life; a periodic update on the main Jython sites
showing 'oh hey, we're working on it, slowly <date here>'. As is, it looks
'dead' (last I checked a few months back), which can be uncomfortable in
the era of py2 being deprecated. ie: Moving away from py2, theres no Jython
option today, so thats going to hurt momentum in the community perhaps.

(And again, don't take this as a commentary on anyones work; it is
volunteer work after all. I've been there, supporting thankless OSS
projects, and I always took these sorts of comments the wrong way :)

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 4:36 AM Jeff Allen <ja...@fa...> wrote:

> On 13/01/2020 14:55, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
>
> On 06/01/2020 15:49, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>> > I have found jython for 2.x to be exceedingly stable (thanks!
>> > wonderful piece of work over the years!) .. though you need to halfway
>> > recent for ssl/encryption changes and stability fixes.
>>
>> I'm glad you've found it so. Although familiar mostly with its flaws,
>> now and then I stand far enough back to recognise how remarkable an
>> achievement it is, and that I have the privilege of contributing to.
>>
>
> Any big flaws we should know about? or you mean just internal design
> flaws, which are inevitable for such a project? :)
>
> Mostly unfixed bugs, test skips and implementation gaps. They're not
> hidden. A number of XXX and FIXME comments are scattered around the code
> base and we have a bug-tracker. Also, I wish there were better explanations
> of some of the cleverness. My point, however, is that when working mostly
> as a maintainer, and perfectionist, flaws loom large and one forgets that
> Jython is a significant intellectual feat that does a good job for many
> users in practice.
>
>
> Maybe update some 'signs of life' somewhere on the website or repo might
> be wise, as I've seen a few people asking around this over the months?
> *shrug*
>
> Thank you (and the team!) again!
>
> You're welcome. The next beta will appear shortly in NEWS and if nothing
> really bad turns up, a release candidate in 2-3 weeks. A roadmap (for 2.7.x
> and 3.x) would not be worth much except as declaration of intent to go that
> way.
>
>
> Jeff Allen
>
>

-- 

Jeff Mitchell

Sr Application Architect

Zayo | Our Fiber Fuels Global Innovation

1821 30th Street | Unit A | Boulder, CO  80301

Desk: 999.999.9999 | Cell: 999.999.9999

jef...@za...

Purpose <http://zayo.is/signature-purpose> | Network Map
<http://zayo.is/signature-network> | LinkedIn
<http://zayo.is/signature-linkedin> | Twitter
<http://zayo.is/signature-twitter>

This communication is the property of Zayo and may contain confidential or
privileged information. If you have received this communication in error,
please promptly notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of
the communication and any attachments.


He who dies with the best barbecue sauce, wins.