jython-users

Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[<Ron...@Ne...>]

There is a book coming out this fall about Java/Python/Web development.
   Saw it at Amazon; the blurb on it doesn't say much yet.  I have the page
  printed at home, so can't give anymore specifics.







Ben Hutchison <ben...@fi...>@lists.sourceforge.net on
05/24/2001 06:09:00 AM

Sent by:  jyt...@li...


To:   jyt...@li...
cc:

Subject:  Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

Joshua Fox wrote:

>I have enjoyed reading Eckels' work in Thinking in Patterns about Jython's
>capabilities in scripting Java apps.
>
>We have not found any other documentation about the Java-specific
>capabilities of Jython: Calling Java classses from Python, interpreting
>Python code in a Java app, compiling Python classes to *.class, etc.
>
>Is there any such documentation?
>
AFAIK, only the brief material on www.jython.org, and the archives of
this mailing list which holds alot of knowledge.

Ive often thought Jython needs a good document set, which could be
produced by organizing and distilling the mailing lists & web site. Id
like to try it myself but I dont think it will happen while I am working
full time.

Regards
Ben


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RE: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Bugbee, L. <Lar...@PS...>]

Excellent start.  

The next question is perhaps Reference vs Tutorial?  ...assumptions about the reader's background.  How much do we want to assume or presume the reader understands?

Larry

---------------------------------------------

[snip]

Then, the next question is what to attempt, both style of documentation 
and coverage?

In terms of content coverage, some ideas:

Fundamentals:
    basic differences between Java and Python
    jython types and their mapping to java, python
    calling java from jython
    calling python from jython
    starting jython interpreter from java
    calling java methods from jython
    handling java exceptions in jython
    discuss jython scripts as java classes
    subclassing java classes in jython + Java reflection
    special jython keywords -> javabeans properties mapping
    String handling in jython vs Java
    dir() in jython
   
Jython software and tools
    using interactive interpreter
    configuration properties
    command line options for tools
    layout & description of installed files
    using jythonc
    using python modules
    using java debuggers
    jython performance considerations

Resources
    jython web site
    Bruce Eckel  - thinking in patterns
    python web site
   

Thats a start.

Regards
Ben


>


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RE: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Sells, F. <fr...@ad...>]

I would be willing to help.  Have done quite a bit of Python/Jython/Swing
and well as extensive specs and user manuals.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Hutchison [mailto:ben...@fi...]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:29 PM
To: jython-users
Subject: Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation


Sarwar Raza wrote:

>Would anyone be interested in collaborating on the
>'Jython documentation project' - of course not on the
>scale of the Linux or Python docs, but you get the
>general idea. 
>
>thanks
>-Sarwar
>
Yes I would.  

A starting point would be to host it somewhere. Maybe at jython.org 
makes most sense, or we could create project in sourceforge without too 
much trouble.Or do you prefer another project host?

Then, the next question is what to attempt, both style of documentation 
and coverage?

In terms of content coverage, some ideas:

Fundamentals:
    basic differences between Java and Python
    jython types and their mapping to java, python
    calling java from jython
    calling python from jython
    starting jython interpreter from java
    calling java methods from jython
    handling java exceptions in jython
    discuss jython scripts as java classes
    subclassing java classes in jython + Java reflection
    special jython keywords -> javabeans properties mapping
    String handling in jython vs Java
    dir() in jython
   
Jython software and tools
    using interactive interpreter
    configuration properties
    command line options for tools
    layout & description of installed files
    using jythonc
    using python modules
    using java debuggers
    jython performance considerations

Resources
    jython web site
    Bruce Eckel  - thinking in patterns
    python web site
   

Thats a start.

Regards
Ben


>


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Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Sarwar R. <raz...@ya...>]

Would anyone be interested in collaborating on the
'Jython documentation project' - of course not on the
scale of the Linux or Python docs, but you get the
general idea. 

thanks
-Sarwar



=====
*************************
Sarwar S Raza
NMS Software Engineer
CommWorks Corporation
http://www.wpi.edu/~sraza
*************************

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Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Ben H. <ben...@fi...>]

Sarwar Raza wrote:

>Would anyone be interested in collaborating on the
>'Jython documentation project' - of course not on the
>scale of the Linux or Python docs, but you get the
>general idea. 
>
>thanks
>-Sarwar
>
Yes I would.  

A starting point would be to host it somewhere. Maybe at jython.org 
makes most sense, or we could create project in sourceforge without too 
much trouble.Or do you prefer another project host?

Then, the next question is what to attempt, both style of documentation 
and coverage?

In terms of content coverage, some ideas:

Fundamentals:
    basic differences between Java and Python
    jython types and their mapping to java, python
    calling java from jython
    calling python from jython
    starting jython interpreter from java
    calling java methods from jython
    handling java exceptions in jython
    discuss jython scripts as java classes
    subclassing java classes in jython + Java reflection
    special jython keywords -> javabeans properties mapping
    String handling in jython vs Java
    dir() in jython
   
Jython software and tools
    using interactive interpreter
    configuration properties
    command line options for tools
    layout & description of installed files
    using jythonc
    using python modules
    using java debuggers
    jython performance considerations

Resources
    jython web site
    Bruce Eckel  - thinking in patterns
    python web site
   

Thats a start.

Regards
Ben


>

Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[John M. <joh...@ya...>]

Another resource:

http://www.fnal.gov/fermitools/abstracts/fermipython/abstract.html

Click on Documentation to download an excellent intro to Jython and
Swing programming.



--- Ben Hutchison <ben...@fi...> wrote:
> Sarwar Raza wrote:
> 
> >Would anyone be interested in collaborating on the
> >'Jython documentation project' - of course not on the
> >scale of the Linux or Python docs, but you get the
> >general idea. 
> >
> >thanks
> >-Sarwar
> >
> Yes I would.  
> 
> A starting point would be to host it somewhere. Maybe at jython.org 
> makes most sense, or we could create project in sourceforge without
> too 
> much trouble.Or do you prefer another project host?
> 
> Then, the next question is what to attempt, both style of
> documentation 
> and coverage?
> 
> In terms of content coverage, some ideas:
> 
> Fundamentals:
>     basic differences between Java and Python
>     jython types and their mapping to java, python
>     calling java from jython
>     calling python from jython
>     starting jython interpreter from java
>     calling java methods from jython
>     handling java exceptions in jython
>     discuss jython scripts as java classes
>     subclassing java classes in jython + Java reflection
>     special jython keywords -> javabeans properties mapping
>     String handling in jython vs Java
>     dir() in jython
>    
> Jython software and tools
>     using interactive interpreter
>     configuration properties
>     command line options for tools
>     layout & description of installed files
>     using jythonc
>     using python modules
>     using java debuggers
>     jython performance considerations
> 
> Resources
>     jython web site
>     Bruce Eckel  - thinking in patterns
>     python web site
>    
> 
> Thats a start.
> 
> Regards
> Ben
> 
> 
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Jython-users mailing list
> Jyt...@li...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jython-users


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Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Ben H. <ben...@fi...>]

Well, I am pleased so so many people are interested and willing to 
contribute to improving the Jython documentation.

I think finding a home is the first step, and I would definitely prefer 
it to be integrated with the jython development site at sourceforge.

1. Add a Docs tab to the jython project page and authorize some 
interested people to check in docs to CVS. This has the advantage of 
very tight integration with the Jython development project. Having a 
small team of maintainers may make the resulting documents more coherent 
and organized. The disadvantage is that the people maintaining the docs 
have to be responsive and attentive to other's contributions, and it 
needs to be easy for everybody to suggest changes and or additions.

2. Use the Wiki idea as proposed by Brian, copied below. This very open 
design means that everybody can add and update material easily. This is 
often a good thing, but I do have some concerns:
    * With multiple independent authors, the docs may become a little 
scattered and divergent in their coverage and format, making it hard for 
people to navigate and possibly compromising their accuracy.
    * I hope Wiki has some backup or versioning system. What protection 
exists against accidental or deliberate deletion of material?

(Possibly, we could start with Wiki to gather material easily, then 
collate it together, check it for errors, and transfer it to the jython 
project)

Either way, the docs should be reviewed by, and have the support of, the 
core Jython developers. IMO, ideally this means Finn Bock, because he 
would seem to be best qualified to ensure their accuracy.

Does anybody want to propose other home candidates, or indicate an 
preference for one of the above?
Brian, can you comment on versioning and backup protection for Wiki?

Regards
Ben

Brian Zhou wrote:

Would suggest hosting a wiki site on jython.org.

See http://jywiki.sourceforge.net/index.php?WikiWikiWeb for some pointers
explaining the wiki idea. Good thing about wiki is everybody can easily
participate and share, the pages are automatically indexed; downside is that
it's not as systematically organized.

I put out a few page starting at
http://jywiki.sourceforge.net/index.php?JythonServlet focusing on jython
servlet, but don't have a lot of time adding things to it. Feel free to add
pages from here http://jywiki.sourceforge.net/index.php?AddingPages

Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Brian Z. <bri...@ya...>]

>
> (Possibly, we could start with Wiki to gather material easily, then
> collate it together, check it for errors, and transfer it to the
jython
> project)
>

I like this idea.

In terms of backup or versioning support, it varies a lot depending on
different wiki implementations:

  * I hope jywiki is up to the task but it's not there yet, not to
mention the fact that sourceforge.net does not host java servlet.
Actually jywiki is very close to the original wiki.
  * PhpWiki is probably a better choice since it got 90% of the features
without being large, supports page locking, simple diff and various
storage interfaces (plain text, mysql, etc). Sourceforge.net provides
PHP hosting, MySql database and cron job - so we can either backup the
MySql database or check plain text pages into CVS.
  * I've also looked at MoinMoin before. My impression was that it got
way too many features than you need, and the design was not very
coherent or wabi-sabi.

Regards,

-Brian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Hutchison" <ben...@fi...>
To: "jython-users" <jyt...@li...>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation


> Well, I am pleased so so many people are interested and willing to
> contribute to improving the Jython documentation.
>
> I think finding a home is the first step, and I would definitely
prefer
> it to be integrated with the jython development site at sourceforge.
>
> 1. Add a Docs tab to the jython project page and authorize some
> interested people to check in docs to CVS. This has the advantage of
> very tight integration with the Jython development project. Having a
> small team of maintainers may make the resulting documents more
coherent
> and organized. The disadvantage is that the people maintaining the
docs
> have to be responsive and attentive to other's contributions, and it
> needs to be easy for everybody to suggest changes and or additions.
>
> 2. Use the Wiki idea as proposed by Brian, copied below. This very
open
> design means that everybody can add and update material easily. This
is
> often a good thing, but I do have some concerns:
>     * With multiple independent authors, the docs may become a little
> scattered and divergent in their coverage and format, making it hard
for
> people to navigate and possibly compromising their accuracy.
>     * I hope Wiki has some backup or versioning system. What
protection
> exists against accidental or deliberate deletion of material?
>

> Either way, the docs should be reviewed by, and have the support of,
the
> core Jython developers. IMO, ideally this means Finn Bock, because he
> would seem to be best qualified to ensure their accuracy.
>
> Does anybody want to propose other home candidates, or indicate an
> preference for one of the above?
> Brian, can you comment on versioning and backup protection for Wiki?
>
> Regards
> Ben

Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[<bc...@wo...>]

[Ben Hutchison]

>Well, I am pleased so so many people are interested and willing to 
>contribute to improving the Jython documentation.
>
>I think finding a home is the first step, and I would definitely prefer 
>it to be integrated with the jython development site at sourceforge.

Me too.

>...
>
>Does anybody want to propose other home candidates, or indicate an 
>preference for one of the above?

Is the SF DocManager usefull for this?

  http://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=12867

regards,
finn

Re: [Jython-users] Jython documentation

[Robert W. B. <rb...@di...>]

On Mon, 28 May 2001, Finn Bock wrote:
> [Ben Hutchison]
>
> >Well, I am pleased so so many people are interested and willing to
> >contribute to improving the Jython documentation.
> >
> >I think finding a home is the first step, and I would definitely prefer
> >it to be integrated with the jython development site at sourceforge.
>
> Me too.
>
> >...
> >
> >Does anybody want to propose other home candidates, or indicate an
> >preference for one of the above?
>
> Is the SF DocManager usefull for this?
>
>   http://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=12867

This may be a good start, but it seems unclear what format limitation
there is on SF.  A limitation to html might not be ideal?  I'm
curious what people think about sticking closer to the latex documentation
Fred Drake details here:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/devel-docs/doc/doc.html

CVS + latex and converting to format-specific output seems a better
investment. How can you do this on SF? Would this mean a separate
'project' for documentation where only the html output is committed to the
jython project?  What are others thoughts?  My cvs+emacs+latex
bias may be another's bane, so speak up.

It seems a quick consesus may be most useful, so I'll cast my
inconsequential vote for what seems most likely to allow latex source...
If authors can have rw to only a /doc subdirectory of Jython's cvs- do
that. Otherwise, this is best served by a unique cvs entry (SF project)
and some 'managed' conversion to html output for posting in the Jython
project.


-Robert