Re: [JPP-Devel] Do we have any organizations interested in providing proposals for OpenJUMP programming services?

[Sunburned S. <sun...@gm...>]

OK Larry. I have had some time to think about the good questions that
you raised. My comments are below.

Larry wrote: "I would recommend that you look at a combination of
proprietary and open source tools.  And don't assume OpenJump would
meet your company's needs best just because it is a project you
co-founded."

I understand this completely. I've actually been waiting for the right
type of client for OpenJUMP. There is no way I would try to use
OpenJUMP for an enterprise GIS implementation. I realize it isn't
ready for that. This particular district is very small. Maybe 3 or 4
full-time employees? None of the staff is incredibly technical, and
they don't have the funding for a full-time GIS analyst. They need a
GIS that is simple and inexpensive. This is the type of organization
that I think OpenJUMP is well  suited for. You must also remember that
my company will be serving in a support role. That means the district
will have indirect access to all sorts of expensive software and
equipment. For example: We will be the primary (and likely sole) data
provider for the district GIS, so I can take care of any geospatial
data reprojection needs. I can also take care of any surface modeling
and drafting the district needs. I'd be using proprietary software for
these needs, at least until we get them implemented in OpenJUMP.

Larry wrote: "Does this imply web access?"

No web access to GIS data needed at this time, and I don't see web
access needed in the future.

Larry wrote: "What is "the district?"

The district is a sanitary sewer district. Its something of a
half-breed. Part government agency and part utility. This particular
sanitary sewer district manages sewer services for a small community
and rural area.

Larry wrote: "Does this imply that you are producing printed maps?"

I think there will be some limited, small format printing for reports.
Any large format printing will likely be done by my company.

Larry wrote: " Does the SVG need to be more accurate than it currently
is?  Personally, I would recommend converting to Adobe illustrator
format."

Yes, the SVG export needs to be more accurate than it already is. I've
got some code started that creates the SVG coordinates based on a
model space coordinate entered by the user. This allows the user to
export SVG using the reference coordinate, perform some work in
OpenJUMP, and then export more SVG using the same reference
coordinate. This means everything will fall exactly into place in the
SVG editor.

I've been using Inkscape for a couple of years know, and it is a very
capable vector illustration program. It took me a while to get
"untrained" on my AutoCAD drawing methods, but once I started thinking
like an "Inkscape Artist" there wasn't a lot I couldn't do with the
program.  I have no experience with Adobe Illustrator, and Inkscape is
open source! :]

Larry wrote: "Better than what?  What version of DXF is required?"

The DXF version isn't critical. I can export DXF files in any number
of versions. I need to take a closer look at the existing DXF
plug-ins. I can likley get by with one of them for the time being.
However, I need to be able to get into the guts of the plug-in to make
modifications if needed. I htink this will be important, since CAD
data is such a central pillar of my company's operation. I tried to do
some poking around in Michael's DXF plug-in a while back, but I think
all of the source code comments were in French! :]

Larry wrote: "Is this totally non-spatial data or somehow related
through a key field?"

Absolutely. Let me give you an example of what I am talking about:

I've got a simple table in Excel that tracks routine maintenance
events and repairs to sewer pipe segments. Each record in this table
has a foriegn key that identifies the sewer segment the record is
related to. I want the user to be able to do the following from
OpenJUMP:

- View the data in the table.
- Edit the data in the table.
- Select records in the table with simple queries.
- Select features in an OpenJUMP task based on information in the
table. ("Select all features in the sewer pipe segments layer who have
a related record in the maintenance table for repair of tree root
blockages.")
- Select records in the table based on information in feature
attributes. ("Select all records in the maintenance table for sewer
pipe segment features with a pipe type of concrete and a length over
100 feet.")

I know I could plumb into a relational database for this
functionality. (I'd probably use MySQL.) Or I could try to use a Java
embedded database like H2. I've investigated both of these options and
really feel like they are more complex than what I need. I just want
to work with CSV files. :]

Larry wrote: "How many seats does this buy?  If you get one seat of
ESRI (or whatever), it can do the heavy lifting and leave the other
seats to OJ for casual viewing and editing.  ArcGIS does a fine job of
importing CAD data which can then be exported as shape files.  I'm not
sure what you have to buy to get print quality maps out of ESRI, but
I'm sure it can be done."

This is sort of the approach I am proposing. Except the heavy lifting
would be done by a copy of AutoCAD Map in my office, and OJ would do
everything else in the client's office.

Landon




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Larry Becker <bec...@gm...> wrote:
> Hi SS,
>
> I have a few questions about your proposal.  I would like to see OpenJump
> get more use by companies, but I'm not sure it is up to this task yet
> alone.  I would recommend that you look at a combination of proprietary and
> open source tools.  And don't assume OpenJump would meet your company's
> needs best just because it is a project you co-founded.
>
>>My company believes this is a good
>>opportunity to implement a small and simple GIS for the district.
>
> Does this imply web access?  What is "the district?"
>
>>Some enhanced SVG export abilities.
>
> Does this imply that you are producing printed maps?  Does the SVG need to
> be more accurate than it currently is?  Personally, I would recommend
> converting to Adobe illustrator format.
>
>>Better support for DXF import and export.
>
> Better than what?  What version of DXF is required?
>
>>Support for external tables.
>
> Is this totally non-spatial data or somehow related through a key field?
>
>>I'm thinking I'll have a ballpark budget of $3,000 to $6,000
>
> How many seats does this buy?  If you get one seat of ESRI (or whatever), it
> can do the heavy lifting and leave the other seats to OJ for casual viewing
> and editing.  ArcGIS does a fine job of importing CAD data which can then be
> exported as shape files.  I'm not sure what you have to buy to get print
> quality maps out of ESRI, but I'm sure it can be done.
>
> I'm afraid that any help I could give on this project would have to be in
> the form of advice, as I am up to my eyeballs in work already.  My advice is
> free and worth exactly what you pay.  :-)
>
> regards,
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Sunburned Surveyor
> <sun...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>> The company that I work for (KSN Inc.) has a small sanitary district
>> that has been our client for several decades. Because of some new
>> government regulations they have to prepare base map and inventory of
>> their entire sanitary system. My company beleives this is a good
>> opportunity to implement a small and simple GIS for the district. My
>> boss is currently having me look into different proprietary software
>> systems that we might use to implement the GIS.
>>
>> However, after taking a look at the proprietary software that is
>> available in our price range, I really beleive that OpenJUMP is a
>> viable candidate. Here is the problem: I don't have time with my other
>> work responisiblities to provide dedicated programming services for
>> OpenJUMP when these will be needed by the client (and they will be
>> needed). I can't go to my boss to suggest OpenJUMP as a possible
>> software package for the GIS implementation unless I have a third
>> party organization that would be willing to work on customization of
>> OpenJUMP to meet the client's needs. I'm not sure if we have any
>> organizations involved in our community that would be interested in
>> this type of work. (I know Larry Becker does something like this,
>> Martin Davis has his little business, and I think the deegree Project
>> also does this type of work.) If I can't find a company that is
>> interested in this type of work I'll have to fall back on a
>> proprietary solution.
>>
>> If we do have some companies that might be interested, I will prepare
>> a short request-for-proposal. Here is what I am thinking I'll need
>> out-of-the-gate:
>>
>> - Some enhanced SVG export abilities. I'm not talking about using
>> Batik. I need something that is more precise and that maps the
>> transition from OpenJUMP's task coordinate system to the SVG
>> coordinate system in a predictable and repeatable fashion. I've
>> already started fleshing some of this code out, but it isn't complete.
>> I need to be able to get features from OpenJUMP exported as SVG
>> tailored for Inkscape for map production.
>>
>> - Better support for DXF import and export. My company works with CAD
>> data almost exclusively, and this project would be dealing with a lot
>> of CAD data. I need a reliable DXF import and export plug-in.
>> Something could probably be built using the existing DXF plug-ins, but
>> it would need a little tweaking. I'd really only bei nterested in the
>> following CAD entities: Lines, LWPolylines, Points, and Text. However,
>> I'd like to see an underlying DXF parser that makes other drawing
>> entities available to the client API.
>>
>> - Support for external tables. I don't want to use a database here. I
>> just want to be able to view, manipulate, and query tabular data in an
>> external file. I'd probably want to use CSV files, although I'd be
>> open to an implementation that used binary files.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll have a ballpark budget of $3,000 to $6,000, which is
>> what it would cost to license a proprietary solution for the first
>> year. I could likely make a similar amount available in subsequent
>> years for additional development work. As part of the proposal I'd
>> also like an approximate hourly rate for bug-fixing.
>>
>> All and any code developed under this project would be released under
>> the GPL or LGPL, and the developing company could maintain the
>> copyright. If I can make this implementation successful, there would
>> be potential for additional business with other KSN clients.
>>
>> I think this is a great opportunity to get some paid development
>> contributed back to the OpenJUMP community. I hope we have an
>> organization that is interested. I wish I had the time to do the work
>> myself.
>>
>> Please let me know if you'd be interesetd in responding to an RFP
>> similar to the one I describe above. Or, if you are interested in
>> cost-sharing the development of some of the improvements for OpenJUMP
>> that I describe above, let me know that as well.
>>
>> The Sunburned Surveyor
>>
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