jazzplusplus-devel — Discussion Forum for Jazz Developers

[jazzplusplus-devel] New Website, hurray!

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

All,

There's a website now.  :)

http://jazzplusplus.sourceforge.net/

A few questions.   :)  First, everybody go read all the copy (there's not 
much) and make comments and stuff so I can edit it and make sure the website 
accurately puts across the message and information we all want it to put 
across.  I just filled it in now to make it clear what information belongs 
where on the site and to fill out the layout so we could all see what it 
looks like.

It uses the news export feature of sourceforge, so anytime a news item is 
added (can only be done by project admin), it'll be available on the website.  
I like that a lot.

We can add plenty of other stuff to integrate the website with sourceforge's 
project management interfaces, according to this page:

http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1502&group_id=1

Let me know if you guys want more integration and so forth.  Right now we're 
not using the tracking part of the sourceforge setup.  I'm certainly not 
opposed to using it, and we can do a certain amount of integration between it 
and the website, and that's always cool.

Finally, for Mark, is the wiki reliable?  As in, can users always manage to 
find it?  ;)  I went ahead and linked to it, but if there are any doubts in 
your mind about where it's at always being available, then we should probably 
go ahead and move it to sourceforge's webserver.

That's it for me.  Tell me what you think of the design.  :)  I went for blue 
this time.  ;)

Dave

-- 
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] What's the latest on the WxWin 2.x port?

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Monday 22 March 2004 04:53 am, Patrick Earl wrote:
> As far as I know, we could use somebody to go through the midi/audio
> stuff and fix anything that's not working.  With any luck, large
> chunks of the system can be replaced with portaudio and portmidi,
> though they seem to be lacking a few features like the ability to
> define midi thru, similar to alsa's aconnect.  If you're looking for
> a substantial job, you could put portmidi and portaudio in place and
> add any needed features to the libraries themselves.  For the time
> being, we could distribute changed versions of the libraries, but the
> enhancements could probably be added to the core libraries at some
> point.

With the audio/midi, I strongly recommend just dropping wav playback for now.  
We can use softsynths like Timidity for wav playback, so this code doesn't 
*need* to be in Jazz at the moment.  I've no problems re-adding wav playback 
later, but in the push to simplify things, I strongly suggest dropping it now 
and working on a solid midi implementation.  The midi stuff that's there is 
already pretty good, but....

The current playback class (I forget what it's called, tPlayer?) is derived 
from wxTimer, so it needs to be completely rewritten.  Pretty much from the 
ground up.  ;)  I would suggest if you want to take a crack at this code, you 
might be better of just trashing the old code and rewriting the playback.  If 
you want a non-system dependency, I recommend PortMIDI, and at this moment I 
wouldn't suggest using anything else other than the Alsa and other driver 
code that's already in Jazz.  The problems with wxTimer for realtime midi 
applications are probably pretty obvious, but I'll be happy to write a 
diatribe for you if you want it.  :)

Dave

> There's also a number of memory bugs that need to be tracked down
> using valgrind.  For example, the piano window cannot be started and
> closed without causing jazz to crash.
>
> Basically it comes down to finding something you want to work on and
> then doing it.  I've been assuming that the CVS is mostly current
> with the exception of the trackwin code, which I know Dave has ripped
> apart.
>
> If you'd like access to the CVS, first grab the CVS anonymously, make
> some changes, then let me know and I can set you up with commit
> access.
>
>         Patrick
>
>
>
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] how to get up to speed again?

[Patrick E. <pa...@pa...>]

On Sunday 21 March 2004 09:17, joakim verona wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was going to get up to speed with recent jazz++ develpments I
> thought, but I'm kind of lost:
>
> 1) Is sourceforge the CVS to use now?
> 2) Are there multiple versions now?
>
> PS I did some work to port to wx 2.4 some time ago and lurked on
> the previous list before it turned to a spam-fest.

Just wanted to clarify a few things.  Joakim did most of the work to 
make wx2.4 work in the first place (hence all those JAVE comments).  
The sourceforge CVS combines his ported source and all of the updates 
I know of.  The CVS on my machine (me.patearl.net) is no longer being 
used.

        Patrick

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] What's the latest on the WxWin 2.x port?

[Patrick E. <pa...@pa...>]

On Sunday 21 March 2004 21:18, Matt Kelly wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry to post a noob-type question, but I've been out of the loop
> for quite some time.
>
> What is the current status of Jazz++?  I know the push is on to
> port to that latest of everything, right?  Is the current code in
> CVS getting close, or is there a ways to go?  What's left to do?
>
> I might have some spare cycles to help out.
>
> I also have some enhancements to the piano window.  I brought these
> to the developer's group about a year ago, and they were well
> received, but not committed to the repository.  Maybe it's time to
> re-address these enhancements.  I'll do that in a separate message.

Jazz++ compiles and runs under Linux using wxWidgets 2.4.  There's 
still stuff that hasn't been ported properly.

Dave is working on separating things into three layers; you can see a 
description on the wiki:
    http://jazz.opensrc.org/

I've been working on divorcing tPianoWin from tEventWin. I'm nearly 
done that.  Once I'm done that, I'll be working on cleaning up the 
piano code as much as possible.  When Dave has commited his changes 
to the track window, the piano window will need to be hooked into 
that.

I've also been working on a new system to support XRC dialogs.  If 
you're looking for a specific task, one possibility is working on 
porting the the various dialogs over to the new system.

In my work with the CVS, I've been performing incremental changes, 
though they sometimes have their fingers in many files.  If you work 
on changes I'd suggest updating and commiting often so it doesn't 
lead to a huge integration mess afterwards.

As for your enhancements to the piano window, those should probably 
wait until the code has stabilized more.  We need the code to regain 
simplicity and to actually work before adding more stuff.

As far as I know, we could use somebody to go through the midi/audio 
stuff and fix anything that's not working.  With any luck, large 
chunks of the system can be replaced with portaudio and portmidi, 
though they seem to be lacking a few features like the ability to 
define midi thru, similar to alsa's aconnect.  If you're looking for 
a substantial job, you could put portmidi and portaudio in place and 
add any needed features to the libraries themselves.  For the time 
being, we could distribute changed versions of the libraries, but the 
enhancements could probably be added to the core libraries at some 
point.

There's also a number of memory bugs that need to be tracked down 
using valgrind.  For example, the piano window cannot be started and 
closed without causing jazz to crash.

Basically it comes down to finding something you want to work on and 
then doing it.  I've been assuming that the CVS is mostly current 
with the exception of the trackwin code, which I know Dave has ripped 
apart.

If you'd like access to the CVS, first grab the CVS anonymously, make 
some changes, then let me know and I can set you up with commit 
access.

        Patrick

[jazzplusplus-devel] What's the latest on the WxWin 2.x port?

[Matt K. <ra...@ch...>]

Hi,

Sorry to post a noob-type question, but I've been out of the loop
for quite some time.

What is the current status of Jazz++?  I know the push is on to port
to that latest of everything, right?  Is the current code in CVS
getting close, or is there a ways to go?  What's left to do?

I might have some spare cycles to help out.

I also have some enhancements to the piano window.  I brought these
to the developer's group about a year ago, and they were well received,
but not committed to the repository.  Maybe it's time to re-address
these enhancements.  I'll do that in a separate message.

Thanks,

Matt K.

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Old Jazz Binary

[Patrick E. <pa...@pa...>]

On Sunday 21 March 2004 16:55, Patrick Earl wrote:
> At the very moment I'm writing this mail, the configure script is
> not in the CVS.  I will be adding it very shortly.  Technically, if
> you have the autoconf, automake tools installed, you don't need it.
>  If you have those tools installed, you could try the ./rebuild
> script.

I added the configure and Makefile.in files.  I believe it's ready for 
compilation testing under Windows.  Let us know if there are any 
difficulties you are unable to resolve.  There will likely be many 
problems at the moment.

        Patrick

[jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Old Jazz Binary

[Patrick E. <jaz...@pa...>]

On Sunday 21 March 2004 08:19, ama...@ci... wrote:
> Dave Fancella <dav...@co...> said:
> > On Thursday 18 March 2004 12:17 pm, Patrick Earl wrote:
> > > Hi all.  Since I was able to compile and run the old Jazz, I've
> > > made a tarball with the jazz binary and all the required shared
> > > libraries here:
> > >
> > >     http://patearl.net/static/jazz_and_libs.tar.gz
> > >
> > > If you don't already have them, you'll probably need to install
> > > the data files from:
> > >
> > >     http://patearl.net/static/jazz-src-4.1.8.tar.gz
>
> Did you get any feedback on if this did successfully compile (and
> on which platform)... I tried once before to compile it on Windows
> and it did not work out.  Step by Step compilation instructions
> would be great and then I could perhaps start contributing to the
> source code development...

As a preliminary note, I'd suggest sending future mails to the 
sourceforge mailing list.

I am able to compile the above mentioned source under Linux after I 
hunt down old versions of everything.  I don't know if it will 
compile under Windows.  In any case, we have abandoned that line of 
the source code and are working to get the wx2.4 version in shape.  
Though we have no step by step instructions, I'm sure people on the 
sourceforge list would be willing to help with any problems compiling 
under windows.  To get started under windows, I'd probably try the 
following:

1.  Grab the cygwin tools suite, including things like g++, bash, 
make.

2.  Grab the current CVS source using instructions on the jazz 
sourceforge page.  You could probably use the cvs client that comes 
with the cygwin tools suite.

3.  Run ./configure and make and either:
        a)  Fix what breaks and send us patches.
        b)  Complain about what breaks and hope that somebody knows
             what to do. :)

At the very moment I'm writing this mail, the configure script is not 
in the CVS.  I will be adding it very shortly.  Technically, if you 
have the autoconf, automake tools installed, you don't need it.  If 
you have those tools installed, you could try the ./rebuild script.

        Patrick

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] how to get up to speed again?

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Sunday 21 March 2004 04:17 pm, joakim verona wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was going to get up to speed with recent jazz++ develpments I thought,
> but I'm kind of lost:
>
> 1) Is sourceforge the CVS to use now?

Yes.

> 2) Are there multiple versions now?

Sorta.  Not for us, but there are now multiple jazz versions for people 
looking  :(

> 3) I tried sourceforge, but there is no web page there

Nope.

> 4) there was a Wiki, but I lost the link. I tried to google it, but no joy.
> So a really good sourceforge page would be a link to the Wiki for
> starters :-)

http://jazz.opensrc.org/

I'll throw up a website pretty soon, though.  ;)

Dave

> Regards,
> /Joakim
>
> PS I did some work to port to wx 2.4 some time ago and lurked on the
> previous list before it turned to a spam-fest.
>
> Planet CCRMA is making it feel fun to play with linux audio apps again,
> so a goal for me would
> be to make jazz++ worthy of a ccrma rpm!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

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[jazzplusplus-devel] how to get up to speed again?

[joakim v. <jo...@ve...>]

Hello,

I was going to get up to speed with recent jazz++ develpments I thought, 
but I'm kind of lost:

1) Is sourceforge the CVS to use now?
2) Are there multiple versions now?
3) I tried sourceforge, but there is no web page there
4) there was a Wiki, but I lost the link. I tried to google it, but no joy.
So a really good sourceforge page would be a link to the Wiki for 
starters :-)

Regards,
/Joakim

PS I did some work to port to wx 2.4 some time ago and lurked on the 
previous list before it turned to a spam-fest.

Planet CCRMA is making it feel fun to play with linux audio apps again, 
so a goal for me would
be to make jazz++ worthy of a ccrma rpm!

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Anyone want to design dialogs?

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Sunday 21 March 2004 10:23 am, Patrick Earl wrote:
> I can create the basic outline of the dialog with the necessary code,
> but making them look nice is a different story.  Anyone want to
> volunteer to niceify the dialogs?

I'll pass.  My Jazz timeslice is about to come up again and I intend to spend 
it on the Project class and factoring trackwin into it.  Sorry.  :(  
(normally I'm all over making pretty interfaces)

> I haven't heard anything on the website front lately.  Is anyone
> working on this?

My website timeslice will be ending soon, so if you guys want me to take a 
crack it at now's the time to speak up.  :)

If I do it, there will be a basic 2-3 page layout with CVS instructions, 
download page, about the project page, credits, and news, and a wiki to stick 
the manual in.  We could use the existing wiki for the manual, though.  Mark?  
Mark?  Mark?  Hark, hark, I hear a call for Mark.

Dave

> This is another posting going to both lists.  If you're still on the
> old one, come on over to the new one.  Subscription details are here:
>
>     http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel
>
> Have a great day all!
>
>         Patrick
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

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Three: one to screw it in, and one to confuse the issue.

[jazzplusplus-devel] Anyone want to design dialogs?

[Patrick E. <jaz...@pa...>]

Hello Jazz people!  I've been working on a system capable of replacing 
many of the dialogs within Jazz.  It uses the XRC system and stores 
dialogs in external XML files.  I've designer a wrapper class that 
makes it pretty easy to hook the external dialogs to internal code.

There are a number of dialogs to create, and though it's not 
difficult, I'd rather focus on other tasks within the Jazz code.  So, 
I'm wondering if there's anyone out there that wants to make some 
nice looking dialogs using a GUI builder like XRCed or wxGlade.

I can create the basic outline of the dialog with the necessary code, 
but making them look nice is a different story.  Anyone want to 
volunteer to niceify the dialogs?

I haven't heard anything on the website front lately.  Is anyone 
working on this?

This is another posting going to both lists.  If you're still on the 
old one, come on over to the new one.  Subscription details are here:

    http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

Have a great day all!

        Patrick

[jazzplusplus-devel] Hello list!

[joakim v. <jo...@ve...>]

Hello,

Nice to see a new list for jazz++!

/Joakim

[Jazzplusplus-devel] Piano Window

[Patrick E. <jaz...@pa...>]

Okay, I've made a lot of changes to the piano window.  It does the 
proper coordinate translation now, and it also displays all 128 
possible notes.  I fixed up the ctrl-left/right-click thing where it 
shows the number in the top left corner while the velocity changes.  
There's still a bunch of stuff that needs fixed, but it's coming 
along.

I also spent time divorcing tPianoWin from tEventWin.  There are a 
bunch of dialogs shared between the track window and the piano 
window.  This is the list of functions in tEventWin that spawn the 
common dialogs.

MenShift
MenCleanup
MenSearchReplace
MenTranspose
MenSetChannel
MenVelocity
MenLength
MenSeqLength
MenMidiDelay
MenConvertToModulation

I'm kinda waiting to see what Dave does with those dialogs, since the 
changes to the piano window will no doubt depend on that.  How's it 
going with that Dave?  Going to be done in the foreseeable future? :)  
I'm rootin' for ya.

        Patrick

Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Old Jazz Binary

[Patrick E. <jaz...@pa...>]

On Thursday 18 March 2004 13:08, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
> The above says ".../static/..." but you refer to shared libraries.
> That's a bit confusing to me.  The only interpretation that makes
> sense is that some of the executable is staticly linked, and shared
> libraries are used where no static library exists.  Is that right?

The /static/ means that it's not using Zope to generate the web 
content, rather it's static content on my web site. :)

>
> > If you don't already have them, you'll probably need to install
> > the data files from:
> >
> >     http://patearl.net/static/jazz-src-4.1.8.tar.gz
>
> Would it make sense to bundle both tar files together, and include
> some instructions for using the static stuff?

Sure, it would make sense to do that, but I was a little lazy there.  
You wanna do that Kevin?  It certainly fits under the role of 
packaging.

        Patrick

[Jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Old Jazz Binary

[Kevin C. <ke...@do...>]

On 18 March 2004 at 5:17, Patrick Earl <jaz...@pa...> wrote:

> Hi all.  Since I was able to compile and run the old Jazz, I've made a 
> tarball with the jazz binary and all the required shared libraries 
> here:
> 
>     http://patearl.net/static/jazz_and_libs.tar.gz

The above says ".../static/..." but you refer to shared libraries.
That's a bit confusing to me.  The only interpretation that makes 
sense is that some of the executable is staticly linked, and shared 
libraries are used where no static library exists.  Is that right?

> If you don't already have them, you'll probably need to install the 
> data files from:
> 
>     http://patearl.net/static/jazz-src-4.1.8.tar.gz

Would it make sense to bundle both tar files together, and include 
some instructions for using the static stuff?

Just some thoughts.....

[Jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Old Jazz Binary

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Thursday 18 March 2004 12:17 pm, Patrick Earl wrote:
> Hi all.  Since I was able to compile and run the old Jazz, I've made a
> tarball with the jazz binary and all the required shared libraries
> here:
>
>     http://patearl.net/static/jazz_and_libs.tar.gz
>
> If you don't already have them, you'll probably need to install the
> data files from:
>
>     http://patearl.net/static/jazz-src-4.1.8.tar.gz
>
> I'm not actually sure if it will run properly, so I'd be happy to hear
> reports either way.  It will help with the porting effort to be able
> to see what happens in the old version.

How easy would it be to package this up and make a release we can put on 
sourceforge for people to download?  So we could say "we're porting it, but 
here's the last known running stable version".  I can build a windows 
installer, and I can take a crack at compiling 4.1.8 with VC++ 6.

> BTW, I don't know about others, but I plan to stop sending messages to
> the old list soon.  A number of people have subscribed to the new
> list.  You can subscribe here:
>
>     http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

Yeah, same here.  Who hasn't subscribed to the new list yet?  Show of hands.  
;)

Dave

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		-- B. Franklin

[Jazzplusplus-devel] Old Jazz Binary

[Patrick E. <jaz...@pa...>]

Hi all.  Since I was able to compile and run the old Jazz, I've made a 
tarball with the jazz binary and all the required shared libraries 
here:

    http://patearl.net/static/jazz_and_libs.tar.gz

If you don't already have them, you'll probably need to install the 
data files from:

    http://patearl.net/static/jazz-src-4.1.8.tar.gz

I'm not actually sure if it will run properly, so I'd be happy to hear 
reports either way.  It will help with the porting effort to be able 
to see what happens in the old version.

BTW, I don't know about others, but I plan to stop sending messages to 
the old list soon.  A number of people have subscribed to the new 
list.  You can subscribe here:

    http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

        Patrick

Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] RE: Web Site

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Thursday 18 March 2004 01:08 am, Tony Leotta wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Ok...Ok...your correct.  I agree with GUI separation and I think we could
> achieve a great deal in a short time if we adopted that approach. How abo=
ut
> this...let's agree to 100% total separation.  The effect would be that we
> could have two teams of programmers...one on internals, one on GUI. The
> internals team will develop a core MIDI toolkit that will among other
> things: Load MIDI File, Play multiple simultaneous MIDI Stream Record a
> MIDI Stream in real-time while playing back.  The MIDI toolkit will be 10=
0%
> GUI-less.  So we can use a DOS shell or a UNIX shell to control it. Create
> a simple set of test programs. And run them from the command line.  We
> could concentrate on the best possible internal design with absolutely not
> a care in the world about the GUI.

Well, that's a bit much.  :)  Actually, that sort of setup in the long run,=
=20
I'm all over.  But here's more specifically what I had in mind:

I've got a class already called Project.  It's waiting to be merged into CV=
S. =20
Later this week, when my next Jazz timeslice comes up, I'll be factoring al=
l=20
the work code from trackwin into this class, Project.  Then I'll be adding =
to=20
the Application object a few things.  Specifically, a global instance of=20
Project, called gProject, which the GUI will use to access all the work cod=
e. =20
=46rom there, the kernel code will get factored out of Project (hopefully a=
s=20
fast as it gets factored into Project), and Project will be the layer betwe=
en=20
the GUI and the kernel.  Then we'll need to factor all the work code from=20
pianowin, hopefully we'll just need to hook pianowin to Project through the=
=20
global Project instance.  Then we can split into two teams, one working on=
=20
the GUI and one working on the kernel/project layers, and the two need neve=
r=20
step on each other's toes.

In the short run, this gives us the minimum amount of separation from the G=
UI=20
that we need to be able to do anything with the GUI that we want, including=
=20
rewriting it with Qt if we wanted to (not saying I want to, Qt is heavily=20
burdened under Windows, otherwise I would've just gone with one of the=20
Qt-based sequencers already and I wouldn't even be here).  Point is, we'll =
be=20
in a much better position to re-evaluate the GUI.  I'm in favor of a comple=
te=20
redesign on the GUI, saving the interface elements that we all like, and=20
trashing the ones we don't like to replace with better ones.  And it's the=
=20
quickest path to our goal of porting to wx2.4.

In the long run, we'll be able to do anything we want with the backend.  To=
=20
make it work like you propose, it would be a simple matter of taking our=20
Project class and turning it into a console application, while=20
re-implementing the interface to it in Jazz to use the console application=
=20
instead.  In fact, I'm very much in favor of having both Jazz's own interna=
l=20
methods of handling midi as well as being able to connect to any external=20
midi program or server or device, or whatever.  I'm also in favor of just=20
removing all the code that plays sound and using a softsynth like Timidity=
=20
(FluidSynth doesn't run well on my machine, sounds crackly and broken).  An=
d=20
in the long run, we'll be able to do any of that without even thinking abou=
t=20
the GUI.  :)  (Don't forget, ecasound already does a great deal of stuff, a=
nd=20
if we implement a Project interface to ecasound, we get 99% of everything=20
you've suggested at the cost of having a LInux-only solution, but ecasound=
=20
almost runs under Windows right now.  Possibly by the time we're ready,=20
ecasound will be stable and functional under Windows)

So, here's the link again in case you missed it.  It's a wiki, so feel free=
 to=20
jump in there and add stuff, elaborate and so forth.  The only thing I ask =
is=20
that if you want to propose an alternate to it, potentially competitive, yo=
u=20
make a new page and cause the two pages to link to each other.

http://jazz.opensrc.org/?DavesPort

Off the subject, did Mark get over here yet?  Mark?  You there?

Dave

> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fancella [mailto:dav...@co...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:02 AM
> To: Tony Leotta; 'Patrick Earl'
> Cc: jaz...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] RE: Web Site
>
> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:58 pm, Tony Leotta wrote:
> > OK...Great...
> >
> > Do you have a list of feature improvements that you would like to make?
> >
> > I want to add features to Jazz to treat MIDI sequences as though they
> > were sound loops.
>
> Well, here's my take on it.  :)
>
> New features are great, hurray!  Problem is, Jazz is sorely in need of
> serious architectural fixes.  It's broken by design, or rather it's very
> poorly designed.  And it needs to be ported to the new wxWindows so it'll
> actually run on modern machines.  So, new features, yes yes yes, but I'm
> seriously thinking the priority should be on finishing the port and
> separating the GUI from the work code (I don't consider these separate
> tasks, either).  After that, it should be theoretically very easy to add
> new features.
>
> Dave
>
> > 1) Record a set number of measures in real-time ans assign to a LOOP
> > not to a channel.
> >
> > 2) Once recorded...the MIDI measures are treated like a loop.
> >
> > 3) Allow Jazz to have multiple INPUT sources, like a Oxygen.
> >
> > 4) Assign any MIDI loop to any key on a MIDI control.
> >
> > 5) When key is played...MIDI loop is played at the beginning of the
> > next measure.
> >
> > 6) If a key is played during playing MIDI loop...the first loop plays
> > until the next measure then the next loop plays.
> >
> > 7) While a loop is playing...a second MIDI controller can be used to
> > play in real-time.
> >
> > 8) Loops can be layered.
> >
> > 9) Loops can be arranged in sequences and an entire sequence can be
> > triggered from one note.
> >
> > 10) Loops can be transformed.  Key, Timing, MIDI Channel, etc.  All in
> > Real time.
> >
> > 11) Loops can be merged.
> >
> > 12) Loops can play to multiple MIDI channels simultaneously. So in
> > other words..a Loop is like an entire MIDI file with its own channels
> > of MIDI, nut it is treated as one entity.  Pretty cool huh?
> >
> > What do ya think?
> >
> > The reason I bring this up now...is I would like to discuss a MIDI
> > Event Queuing architecture that can handle this.  Which if you think
> > about it...Jazz already does most of what I am proposing..but at the
> > Channel level.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Patrick Earl [mailto:jaz...@pa...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:33 PM
> > To: Tony Leotta
> > Cc: jaz...@li...
> > Subject: Re: Web Site
> >
> > Nobody else has volunteered, so go for it. :)  When you have something
> > to stick on the web, send me your sourceforge ID and I'll add you to
> > the project.
> >
> > It'd be a good idea to subscribe to the SF development list here:
> >     http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel
> >
> > As for helping with the coding, that'd be great too.  There are a lot
> > of things to be done.  Here are just a few.
> >
> > 1.  Finish the GUI port to wxWindows 2.4.  It "works," but there are
> > pieces missing in numerous places.
> >
> > 2.  Re-port to Windows.  It sounds like there is somebody else on the
> > the list who is interested in working on this.
> >
> > 3.  Fix the problems reported by valgrind, aiming to eliminate the
> > random crashes.  Various code may need to be rewritten to ensure
> > things get destroyed in the correct order.  One strategy for handling
> > this is to replace dynamic allocation with static allocation where it's
>
> appropriate.
>
> > 4.  Though I'm not sure what needs done to the underlying midi/audio
> > layers, apparently there's work to be done there too.
> >
> > Basically, if you wanna work on the code, just do something.  :)  The
> > current CVS on SF is where to start from.
> >
> >         Patrick
> >
> > On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:35, Tony Leotta wrote:
> > > I can build a web site....
> > >
> > > I just  built this site in 3 days...
> > >
> > > http://www.pillarsoftware.com/ptt/
> > >
> > > Tony
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux
> > tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo
> > technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> > administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dc=
lick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> > Jaz...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel
>
> --
> Visit my website!
> http://www.davefancella.com/?event=3Dem
>
> The grand leap of the whale up the Fall of Niagara is esteemed, by all who
> have seen it, as one of the finest spectacles in nature.
> 		-- Benjamin Franklin.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D1470&alloc_id=3D3638&op=3Dcli=
ck
> _______________________________________________
> Jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> Jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

=2D-=20
Visit my website!
http://www.davefancella.com/?event=3Dem

Bipolar, adj.:
	Refers to someone who has homes in Nome, Alaska, and Buffalo, New York.

RE: [Jazzplusplus-devel] RE: Web Site

[Tony L. <to...@pi...>]

Dave,

Ok...Ok...your correct.  I agree with GUI separation and I think we could
achieve a great deal in a short time if we adopted that approach. How about
this...let's agree to 100% total separation.  The effect would be that we
could have two teams of programmers...one on internals, one on GUI. The
internals team will develop a core MIDI toolkit that will among other
things: Load MIDI File, Play multiple simultaneous MIDI Stream Record a MIDI
Stream in real-time while playing back.  The MIDI toolkit will be 100%
GUI-less.  So we can use a DOS shell or a UNIX shell to control it. Create a
simple set of test programs. And run them from the command line.  We could
concentrate on the best possible internal design with absolutely not a care
in the world about the GUI.

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Fancella [mailto:dav...@co...] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:02 AM
To: Tony Leotta; 'Patrick Earl'
Cc: jaz...@li...
Subject: Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] RE: Web Site

On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:58 pm, Tony Leotta wrote:
> OK...Great...
>
> Do you have a list of feature improvements that you would like to make?
>
> I want to add features to Jazz to treat MIDI sequences as though they 
> were sound loops.

Well, here's my take on it.  :)

New features are great, hurray!  Problem is, Jazz is sorely in need of
serious architectural fixes.  It's broken by design, or rather it's very
poorly designed.  And it needs to be ported to the new wxWindows so it'll
actually run on modern machines.  So, new features, yes yes yes, but I'm
seriously thinking the priority should be on finishing the port and
separating the GUI from the work code (I don't consider these separate
tasks, either).  After that, it should be theoretically very easy to add new
features.

Dave

> 1) Record a set number of measures in real-time ans assign to a LOOP 
> not to a channel.
>
> 2) Once recorded...the MIDI measures are treated like a loop.
>
> 3) Allow Jazz to have multiple INPUT sources, like a Oxygen.
>
> 4) Assign any MIDI loop to any key on a MIDI control.
>
> 5) When key is played...MIDI loop is played at the beginning of the 
> next measure.
>
> 6) If a key is played during playing MIDI loop...the first loop plays 
> until the next measure then the next loop plays.
>
> 7) While a loop is playing...a second MIDI controller can be used to 
> play in real-time.
>
> 8) Loops can be layered.
>
> 9) Loops can be arranged in sequences and an entire sequence can be 
> triggered from one note.
>
> 10) Loops can be transformed.  Key, Timing, MIDI Channel, etc.  All in 
> Real time.
>
> 11) Loops can be merged.
>
> 12) Loops can play to multiple MIDI channels simultaneously. So in 
> other words..a Loop is like an entire MIDI file with its own channels 
> of MIDI, nut it is treated as one entity.  Pretty cool huh?
>
> What do ya think?
>
> The reason I bring this up now...is I would like to discuss a MIDI 
> Event Queuing architecture that can handle this.  Which if you think 
> about it...Jazz already does most of what I am proposing..but at the 
> Channel level.
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Earl [mailto:jaz...@pa...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:33 PM
> To: Tony Leotta
> Cc: jaz...@li...
> Subject: Re: Web Site
>
> Nobody else has volunteered, so go for it. :)  When you have something 
> to stick on the web, send me your sourceforge ID and I'll add you to 
> the project.
>
> It'd be a good idea to subscribe to the SF development list here:
>     http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel
>
> As for helping with the coding, that'd be great too.  There are a lot 
> of things to be done.  Here are just a few.
>
> 1.  Finish the GUI port to wxWindows 2.4.  It "works," but there are 
> pieces missing in numerous places.
>
> 2.  Re-port to Windows.  It sounds like there is somebody else on the 
> the list who is interested in working on this.
>
> 3.  Fix the problems reported by valgrind, aiming to eliminate the 
> random crashes.  Various code may need to be rewritten to ensure 
> things get destroyed in the correct order.  One strategy for handling 
> this is to replace dynamic allocation with static allocation where it's
appropriate.
>
> 4.  Though I'm not sure what needs done to the underlying midi/audio 
> layers, apparently there's work to be done there too.
>
> Basically, if you wanna work on the code, just do something.  :)  The 
> current CVS on SF is where to start from.
>
>         Patrick
>
> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:35, Tony Leotta wrote:
> > I can build a web site....
> >
> > I just  built this site in 3 days...
> >
> > http://www.pillarsoftware.com/ptt/
> >
> > Tony
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux 
> tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo 
> technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system 
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> Jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

--
Visit my website!
http://www.davefancella.com/?event=em

The grand leap of the whale up the Fall of Niagara is esteemed, by all who
have seen it, as one of the finest spectacles in nature.
		-- Benjamin Franklin.

Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] RE: Web Site

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:58 pm, Tony Leotta wrote:
> OK...Great...
>
> Do you have a list of feature improvements that you would like to make?
>
> I want to add features to Jazz to treat MIDI sequences as though they were
> sound loops.

Well, here's my take on it.  :)

New features are great, hurray!  Problem is, Jazz is sorely in need of serious 
architectural fixes.  It's broken by design, or rather it's very poorly 
designed.  And it needs to be ported to the new wxWindows so it'll actually 
run on modern machines.  So, new features, yes yes yes, but I'm seriously 
thinking the priority should be on finishing the port and separating the GUI 
from the work code (I don't consider these separate tasks, either).  After 
that, it should be theoretically very easy to add new features.

Dave

> 1) Record a set number of measures in real-time ans assign to a LOOP not to
> a channel.
>
> 2) Once recorded...the MIDI measures are treated like a loop.
>
> 3) Allow Jazz to have multiple INPUT sources, like a Oxygen.
>
> 4) Assign any MIDI loop to any key on a MIDI control.
>
> 5) When key is played...MIDI loop is played at the beginning of the next
> measure.
>
> 6) If a key is played during playing MIDI loop...the first loop plays until
> the next measure then the next loop plays.
>
> 7) While a loop is playing...a second MIDI controller can be used to play
> in real-time.
>
> 8) Loops can be layered.
>
> 9) Loops can be arranged in sequences and an entire sequence can be
> triggered from one note.
>
> 10) Loops can be transformed.  Key, Timing, MIDI Channel, etc.  All in Real
> time.
>
> 11) Loops can be merged.
>
> 12) Loops can play to multiple MIDI channels simultaneously. So in other
> words..a Loop is like an entire MIDI file with its own channels of MIDI,
> nut it is treated as one entity.  Pretty cool huh?
>
> What do ya think?
>
> The reason I bring this up now...is I would like to discuss a MIDI Event
> Queuing architecture that can handle this.  Which if you think about
> it...Jazz already does most of what I am proposing..but at the Channel
> level.
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Earl [mailto:jaz...@pa...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:33 PM
> To: Tony Leotta
> Cc: jaz...@li...
> Subject: Re: Web Site
>
> Nobody else has volunteered, so go for it. :)  When you have something to
> stick on the web, send me your sourceforge ID and I'll add you to the
> project.
>
> It'd be a good idea to subscribe to the SF development list here:
>     http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel
>
> As for helping with the coding, that'd be great too.  There are a lot of
> things to be done.  Here are just a few.
>
> 1.  Finish the GUI port to wxWindows 2.4.  It "works," but there are pieces
> missing in numerous places.
>
> 2.  Re-port to Windows.  It sounds like there is somebody else on the the
> list who is interested in working on this.
>
> 3.  Fix the problems reported by valgrind, aiming to eliminate the random
> crashes.  Various code may need to be rewritten to ensure things get
> destroyed in the correct order.  One strategy for handling this is to
> replace dynamic allocation with static allocation where it's appropriate.
>
> 4.  Though I'm not sure what needs done to the underlying midi/audio
> layers, apparently there's work to be done there too.
>
> Basically, if you wanna work on the code, just do something.  :)  The
> current CVS on SF is where to start from.
>
>         Patrick
>
> On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:35, Tony Leotta wrote:
> > I can build a web site....
> >
> > I just  built this site in 3 days...
> >
> > http://www.pillarsoftware.com/ptt/
> >
> > Tony
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> Jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

-- 
Visit my website!
http://www.davefancella.com/?event=em

The grand leap of the whale up the Fall of Niagara is esteemed, by all
who have seen it, as one of the finest spectacles in nature.
		-- Benjamin Franklin.

[Jazzplusplus-devel] RE: Web Site

[Tony L. <to...@pi...>]

OK...Great...

Do you have a list of feature improvements that you would like to make?

I want to add features to Jazz to treat MIDI sequences as though they were
sound loops.

1) Record a set number of measures in real-time ans assign to a LOOP not to
a channel.

2) Once recorded...the MIDI measures are treated like a loop.

3) Allow Jazz to have multiple INPUT sources, like a Oxygen.

4) Assign any MIDI loop to any key on a MIDI control.

5) When key is played...MIDI loop is played at the beginning of the next
measure.

6) If a key is played during playing MIDI loop...the first loop plays until
the next measure then the next loop plays.

7) While a loop is playing...a second MIDI controller can be used to play in
real-time.

8) Loops can be layered.  

9) Loops can be arranged in sequences and an entire sequence can be
triggered from one note.

10) Loops can be transformed.  Key, Timing, MIDI Channel, etc.  All in Real
time.

11) Loops can be merged.

12) Loops can play to multiple MIDI channels simultaneously. So in other
words..a Loop is like an entire MIDI file with its own channels of MIDI, nut
it is treated as one entity.  Pretty cool huh?

What do ya think?

The reason I bring this up now...is I would like to discuss a MIDI Event
Queuing architecture that can handle this.  Which if you think about
it...Jazz already does most of what I am proposing..but at the Channel
level.

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Earl [mailto:jaz...@pa...] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:33 PM
To: Tony Leotta
Cc: jaz...@li...
Subject: Re: Web Site

Nobody else has volunteered, so go for it. :)  When you have something to
stick on the web, send me your sourceforge ID and I'll add you to the
project.

It'd be a good idea to subscribe to the SF development list here:
    http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

As for helping with the coding, that'd be great too.  There are a lot of
things to be done.  Here are just a few.

1.  Finish the GUI port to wxWindows 2.4.  It "works," but there are pieces
missing in numerous places.

2.  Re-port to Windows.  It sounds like there is somebody else on the the
list who is interested in working on this.

3.  Fix the problems reported by valgrind, aiming to eliminate the random
crashes.  Various code may need to be rewritten to ensure things get
destroyed in the correct order.  One strategy for handling this is to
replace dynamic allocation with static allocation where it's appropriate.

4.  Though I'm not sure what needs done to the underlying midi/audio layers,
apparently there's work to be done there too.

Basically, if you wanna work on the code, just do something.  :)  The
current CVS on SF is where to start from.

        Patrick

On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:35, Tony Leotta wrote:
> I can build a web site....
>
> I just  built this site in 3 days...
>
> http://www.pillarsoftware.com/ptt/
>
> Tony

[Jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Web Site

[Patrick E. <jaz...@pa...>]

Nobody else has volunteered, so go for it. :)  When you have something 
to stick on the web, send me your sourceforge ID and I'll add you to 
the project.

It'd be a good idea to subscribe to the SF development list here:
    http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

As for helping with the coding, that'd be great too.  There are a lot 
of things to be done.  Here are just a few.

1.  Finish the GUI port to wxWindows 2.4.  It "works," but there are 
pieces missing in numerous places.

2.  Re-port to Windows.  It sounds like there is somebody else on the 
the list who is interested in working on this.

3.  Fix the problems reported by valgrind, aiming to eliminate the 
random crashes.  Various code may need to be rewritten to ensure 
things get destroyed in the correct order.  One strategy for handling 
this is to replace dynamic allocation with static allocation where 
it's appropriate.

4.  Though I'm not sure what needs done to the underlying midi/audio 
layers, apparently there's work to be done there too.

Basically, if you wanna work on the code, just do something.  :)  The 
current CVS on SF is where to start from.

        Patrick

On Wednesday 17 March 2004 10:35, Tony Leotta wrote:
> I can build a web site....
>
> I just  built this site in 3 days...
>
> http://www.pillarsoftware.com/ptt/
>
> Tony

[Jazzplusplus-devel] Re: Architecture

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Wednesday 17 March 2004 05:38 pm, Tony Leotta wrote:
> I really want to help on this project. I am C++ programmer with 20 years
> exp mostly in real-time.
>
> Who is "in charge" of this project?

Tony, right now we're generally being democratic.  :)  Did you read the page 
on the wiki that started this thread?

> Have you decided to stay with wxWindows?

Yes.  And we've sorta decided to keep up with changes in the wxWindows API.  
:)  (No choice, really, if we want to update jazz and continue to improve it)

> How is the real-time event handling of MIDI events?

Very very very bad.  It's derived from wxTimer and doesn't scale well at all.  
The whole play/record backend needs to be rewritten to derive from wxThread 
where we can get real-time scheduling and so forth.  I lean towards ring 
buffers for the data exchange because they don't use mutexes.

Anyway, we've moved development discussion to sourceforge mailing lists so we 
can have their spam protection and archiving (I know jazzware.com archives 
the list too) and stuff.

The lists can be found here:
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=104252

CVS information is here:
http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=104252

Patrick Earl is the gatekeeper on CVS right now.  You'll find him on both 
lists, currently.  At least, I don't think he's gotten off this list yet.  ;)  
But he's definitely on the sourceforge list.

Dave

> -Tony

-- 
Visit my website!
http://www.davefancella.com/?event=em

If a child annoys you, quiet him by brushing his hair.  If this doesn't
work, use the other side of the brush on the other end of the child.

Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] I'd like to join the team

[Patrick E. <pa...@pa...>]

On Tuesday 16 March 2004 06:16, Gelu Stoicescu wrote:
> What I could take care of is the Windows port, and
> that staff view, as I said.
> I'm looking forward to see some files on SF, as I'd
> rather start with something that compiles. I don't
> mind some simple instructions like "get that tarball,
> open that dialog, do your stuff and make sure you
> don't mess up anything else!"

Jazz compiles under Linux, though it's pretty much guaranteed that it 
won't compile under Windows at the moment.  It used to compile 
natively under environments such as VC++ and BC++.  At the moment, it 
would probably be easier to get it going under Cygwin.  As Dave said, 
the current source can be retrieved from the CVS repository.

The module name is jazz, not jazzplusplus.  You can browse the 
repository and see that here:
    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/jazzplusplus/

> Also if you people know any working CVS client for
> Windows (2000/XP) I'd appreciate if you let me know,
> because I have MS SourceSafe written all over me :)
> Soo... Am I in?

You're always welcome to develop stuff for Jazz++.  As for providing 
CVS write access, I'd like to wait until you have contributed 
something.  That way, we don't end up with a bunch of inactive 
members listed.  I'm sure you understand. :)

Have a great day!

        Patrick

Re: [Jazzplusplus-devel] I'd like to join the team

[Dave F. <dav...@co...>]

On Tuesday 16 March 2004 01:16 pm, Gelu Stoicescu wrote:
> Hello everybody,

Hello Gelu,

> First thing first, I'd like to join the team.
> I am a seasoned programmer (age 32; you live-you
> learn...) on Windows platform, proficient in C++,
> familiar with MIDI and audio concepts and API, and a
> hobbist musician myself (that is, able to read proper
> sheet music, not only lame tablatures; I mention it
> because I intend to take a shot at that staff view). I

Well, I can read staff music perfectly fine, but I'd also like a tablature 
view.  ;P  For those of you who prefer staves to tabs, it's quite obvious you 
don't play guitar.  :)  (yeah yeah, I'd rather see a staff view than a tab 
view.  When I'm making midi music, I don't use my guitar)

> hope I'll make a decent addition to your team.
> I'm not that much into Linux development, only some
> Java, Python and Tcl/Tk, especially because they work
> under Windows too ;) and I'm clueless about the Linux
> audio API, wether you call it AudioSalsa or OpenSSL,
> but I hope PortAudio will alleviate this issue. I can
> however do as much as put up a Linux partition and
> compile the project.

As it exists right now, Jazz abstracts the audio API, so you only have to know 
the audio API if you're writing a driver.  I'm interested in using PortMIDI 
to further abstract it and offload the actual drivers onto a larger project.  
:)

> I liked Jazz++ as soon as I encountered it, I looove
> free stuff :), however I couldn't help notice it has
> some issues, and until recently there seemed to be
> nobody to discuss them with. I'm glad you took over
> it.
> What I could take care of is the Windows port, and
> that staff view, as I said.
> I'm looking forward to see some files on SF, as I'd
> rather start with something that compiles. I don't
> mind some simple instructions like "get that tarball,
> open that dialog, do your stuff and make sure you
> don't mess up anything else!"

You'll need to get it from CVS.  The current CVS should build on a linux 
system with all the requisite libraries.  It's a partially complete port of 
the old Jazz to wxWidgets 2.4.  The old Jazz used wxWidgets 168, which is 
very much out of date.

The sourceforge instructions to get Jazz's cvs are here:
http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=104252

The module name is 'jazzplusplus' I believe.

Right now, we're working on pulling all the engine code out of the GUI.  Then 
we'll finish porting the GUI, because it'll be possible to rewrite the GUI 
from scratch if need be, to make the port.  Or rather, it'll be much easier 
to deal with the GUI if it's not tied up in the rest of the code.  I wrote up 
a page on the wiki describing the architecture, and so far there is consensus 
to work on it that way.  I've got some files hanging around that I need to 
commit to CVS, but I know they'll break CVS, so when I get back to it (I'm on 
websites right now, Jazz'll get another timeslice later this week, provided 
all goes well with the websites) I'll fix my sandbox and commit those files.  
Anyway, the page to read on the wiki is:

http://jazz.opensrc.org/index.php?page=DavesArchitecture

> Also if you people know any working CVS client for
> Windows (2000/XP) I'd appreciate if you let me know,
> because I have MS SourceSafe written all over me :)
> Soo... Am I in?

CVS Client:
http://www.wincvs.org/

That site should give you all the information you need to do Windows CVS 
stuff.

As far as letting you in the repository, I don't personally have any control 
over that.  Pat has it, and he'll be along presently to discuss it.  :)  But 
you can get the current repository through anonymous cvs no problem, and in 
the meantime just make patches and send them to the list.

Dave

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