jazzplusplus-devel — Discussion Forum for Jazz Developers

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

PS>> I use Audacity on Windows and Linux for recording.
PS>> I generate sheet music using lilypond on both Linux
PS>> and Windows.  I would love to use Linux exclusively,
PS>> but my place of work primarily uses Windows and I
PS>> have an M-Audio Delta 1010 that only has Windows
PS>> and MAC drivers so that's why I'm interested in the
PS>> Windows Jazz++ port.

KC = Kevin Cosgrove
KC> I use my M-Audio Delta 1010 exclusively with Linux.

I guess this is getting off topic, but which Linux disto?

Are there OS Delta 1010 drivers, or did you get them from M-Audio?

TIA,
Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 4 January 2008 at 11:09, Pete Stieber <pst...@ve...> wrote:

> I use Audacity on Windows and Linux for recording.  I generate sheet 
> music using lilypond on both Linux and Windows.  I would love to use 
> Linux exclusively, but my place of work primarily uses Windows and I 
> have an M-Audio Delta 1010 that only has Windows and MAC drivers so 
> that's why I'm interested in the Windows Jazz++ port.

I use my M-Audio Delta 1010 exclusively with Linux.

 
--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

DF = Dave Fancella
DF>>> Sort of.  Basically, I've gone to Qt, since Qt got
DF>>> its GPL release on Windows and I've no intention of
DF>>> walking the line of insanity that underlies
DF>>> wxwidgets.  ;)

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> Is any of your Qt development is unrelated to Jazz++?

Wow... I really screwed up that last sentence.  It should have been...

Is any of your Qt development related to Jazz++?

DF> Pretty much all of it?  :)  It's all been in python,
DF> too.  I've considered off and on writing a midi
DF> sequencer in python with PyQt4, but to be honest,
DF> right now I've got too much on my plate to tackle
DF> another project.
DF>
DF> I am willing to help with some ancillary services
DF> you guys might need, though.  I can host a bug tracker
DF> on my web server,

Out of curiosity, what would you use... bugzilla?

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

DF = Dave Fancella
DF>> Sort of.  Basically, I've gone to Qt, since
DF>> Qt got its GPL release on Windows and I've
DF>> no intention of walking the line of insanity
DF>> that underlies wxwidgets. ;)

KC = Kevin Cosgrove
KC> Qt4 would be my preference as it seems much
KC> more widely accepted cross-platform than does
KC> wxwidgets. wxw used to be a good cross-platform
KC> alternative, but it's been very hard to keep
KC> applications in step with that kit's
KC> incompatible changes between versions.  Qt used
KC> to be pretty awful too, but I think they're
KC> better than they used to be.  But, that's just
KC> my opinion.

I'm only interested in a wxWidgets version, but I understand where you 
guys are coming from.  I guess we could attempt to separate GUI code as 
much as possible and have separate Qt and wx GUI ports.

Maybe you guys are indirectly suggesting that I fork Jazz++ if I want to 
continue with wxWidgets development?  I'd be OK with that.  Just let me 
know.

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> I would like to start a Jazz++ development revival.
PS>> I am particularly interested in a Windows version
PS>> of Jazz++ that uses a recent version of wxWidgets.
PS>> I have extensive C++/wxWidgets/Visual Studio/Linux
PS>> development experience.
PS>>
PS>> I have contacted Patrick Earl and he was open to
PS>> the idea.
PS>>
PS>> Are any of the other Jazz++ team members (Kevin
PS>> Cosgrove, Joakim Verona, Dave Fancella, Mark
PS>> Constable, and/or Matt Kelly) still out their
PS>> monitoring this list?
PS>>
PS>> I would love to get their feedback.

KC = Kevin Cosgrove
KC> Here's one!  My coding skills aren't right to get
KC> into the source.  But, I can build, package and
KS> test.  Mostly right now I use Rosegarden for MIDI,
KC> Ardour for recording, and Audacity for editing.
KC> I *really* miss the harmony browser in Jazz++ for
KC> writing.  :-(

I use Audacity on Windows and Linux for recording.  I generate sheet 
music using lilypond on both Linux and Windows.  I would love to use 
Linux exclusively, but my place of work primarily uses Windows and I 
have an M-Audio Delta 1010 that only has Windows and MAC drivers so 
that's why I'm interested in the Windows Jazz++ port.

By day I'm an electrical engineer with the title "Chief Scientist - 
Software".  The company I work for, and have been with for about fifteen 
years, uses wxWidgets to develop GIS and aerospace simulation and 
algorithm software using C++.  When I first started with the company, I 
was one of the only employees with a solid software background, so I had 
to do a lot of the administrative leg work.  I introduced the company to 
C++.  I setup a CVS server in the late 1990's.  I introduced the company 
to wxWidgets during an IRAD effort that required cross-platform 
development.  I generated internal mailing lists using mailman and 
bugtracking/feature requests using bugzilla on Red Hat then Fedora Linux 
boxes.  In 2005 I switched our version control over to Subversion.

My hobby is drumming.  I took private lessons as a kid and a few years 
ago my family made the mistake of buying me a drum kit for Christmas ;-) 
  Since that time I purchased a Roland TD-20 kit.  I have it hooked up 
to my Windows box using an M-Audio UNO device.  I want to use Jazz++ as 
a sequencer to record what I play, then use lilypond's MIDI to lilypond 
utility to generate sheet music.

In a private email I indicated the progress I have made with Jazz++ to 
Patrick Earl...

<Private email to Patrick Earl>
I attempted to generate a Visual Studio .NET 2005 solution and project 
file for Jazz++ using the current stable release of wxWidgets (2.8.7). 
The code currently in CVS uses a lot of wx features that have been 
removed from wxWidgets.

I didn't have an executable so I had no idea of how the program was 
supposed to work.  I found an installable version (jazz++ 3.2i - May 6, 
1999) on the internet.  I installed it, and it looked like an app that 
would be worth working on.  This was an old commercial version and was a 
30-day trial evaluation.

Next, I needed to get a version compiling on windows so I could start 
porting the code.  I really need to see what the dialog boxes and 
windows look like so I could attempt to recreate the functionality 
without studying outdated wx code.

I googled and found an old source tar ball (jazz-src-4.1.3.tar.gz).  It 
had a Visual Studio 5 project file in it.  I dredged up the old 
wxWindows version (1.68E) that it was compiled with and converted the 
tar ball provided Jazz++ project to Visual Studio 6 (I still have that 
old compiler loaded) and built the old wxWindows distribution using VC6. 
  It took a while because I had to fix some wx code and get compiler 
setting to match between the projects, but I'm happy to say I have 
version 4.1.3 built using VC6.

I removed the commercial binary from my machine and am looking at the 
VC6 - Jazz++ 4.1.3 - wx 1.68E code to start the port to current 
wxWidgets code.

Do you think it would be a good idea to commit a branch of the old code 
I'm looking at for reference?

We could also generate a zip file for the old wxWindows code it compiles 
with under Visual Studio 6 and put it up on SourceForge for archival 
purposes.
</Private email to Patrick Earl>

I'm looking to get CVS commit access so I can help with development. 
I've written Patrick with respect to this and am waiting for a reply.

Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 4 January 2008 at 12:28, Dave Fancella <da...@da...> wrote:

> Sort of.  Basically, I've gone to Qt, since Qt got its GPL
> release on Windows and I've no intention of walking the line of
> insanity that underlies wxwidgets. ;)

Qt4 would be my preference as it seems much more widely accepted
cross-platform than does wxwidgets. wxw used to be a good
cross-platform alternative, but it's been very hard to keep
applications in step with that kit's incompatible changes between
versions.  Qt used to be pretty awful too, but I think they're
better than they used to be.  But, that's just my opinion.

Dave, would you have any interest in factoring the harmony browser 
out of Jazz++ and converting that part to a stand-alone harmony 
browser?  ;-)

Thanks all.....



 
--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Dave F. <da...@da...>]

On Friday 04 January 2008 12:42:30 pm Pete Stieber wrote:
> DF> Sort of.  Basically, I've gone to Qt, since Qt got
> DF> its GPL release on Windows and I've no intention of
> DF> walking the line of insanity that underlies
> DF> wxwidgets.  ;)
>
> Is any of your Qt development is unrelated to Jazz++?

Pretty much all of it?  :)  It's all been in python, too.  I've considered off 
and on writing a midi sequencer in python with PyQt4, but to be honest, right 
now I've got too much on my plate to tackle another project.

I am willing to help with some ancillary services you guys might need, though.  
I can host a bugtracker on my web server, and a buildbot.  For both of those 
to be useful I have to solve the email problem.  Any idea how to setup 
postfix to relay through gmail?  ;)  You guys would need to provide the 
buildslaves for the buildbot, most likely.  I can probably get one of my 
machines to be a buildslave for Linux, at least.  And I can give ssh access 
to someone here so I won't be a single point of failure for any part of the 
project.

Dave

> DF> Have fun, and good luck!
>
> Thanks again Dave,
> Pete
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

PS = Pete Stieber
PS>> I would like to start a Jazz++ development revival.
PS>> I am particularly interested in a Windows version
PS>> of Jazz++ that uses a recent version of wxWidgets.
PS>> I have extensive C++/wxWidgets/Visual Studio/Linux
PS>> development experience.

DF = Dave Fancella
DF> That would be neat.

Thanks for the positive feedback Dave.

PS>> I have contacted Patrick Earl and he was open to
PS>> the idea.
PS>>
PS>> Are any of the other Jazz++ team members (Kevin
PS>> Cosgrove, Joakim Verona, Dave Fancella, Mark
PS>> Constable, and/or Matt Kelly) still out their
PS>> monitoring this list?

DF> Sort of.  Basically, I've gone to Qt, since Qt got
DF> its GPL release on Windows and I've no intention of
DF> walking the line of insanity that underlies
DF> wxwidgets.  ;)

Is any of your Qt development is unrelated to Jazz++?

DF> Have fun, and good luck!

Thanks again Dave,
Pete

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Kevin C. <ke...@co...>]

On 4 January 2008 at 9:04, Pete Stieber <pst...@ve...> wrote:

> I would like to start a Jazz++ development revival.  I am particularly 
> interested in a Windows version of Jazz++ that uses a recent version of 
> wxWidgets.  I have extensive C++/wxWidgets/Visual Studio/Linux 
> development experience.
> 
> I have contacted Patrick Earl and he was open to the idea.
> 
> Are any of the other Jazz++ team members (Kevin Cosgrove, Joakim Verona, 
> Dave Fancella, Mark Constable, and/or Matt Kelly) still out their 
> monitoring this list?
> 
> I would love to get their feedback.

Here's one!  My coding skills aren't right to get into the source.  
But, I can build, package and test.  Mostly right now I use 
Rosegarden for MIDI, Ardour for recording, and Audacity for editing.  
I *really* miss the harmony browser in Jazz++ for writing.  :-(

Cheers....
 
--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Dave F. <da...@da...>]

On Friday 04 January 2008 11:04:46 am Pete Stieber wrote:
> I would like to start a Jazz++ development revival.  I am particularly
> interested in a Windows version of Jazz++ that uses a recent version of
> wxWidgets.  I have extensive C++/wxWidgets/Visual Studio/Linux
> development experience.

That would be neat.

> I have contacted Patrick Earl and he was open to the idea.
>
> Are any of the other Jazz++ team members (Kevin Cosgrove, Joakim Verona,
> Dave Fancella, Mark Constable, and/or Matt Kelly) still out their
> monitoring this list?

Sort of.  Basically, I've gone to Qt, since Qt got its GPL release on Windows 
and I've no intention of walking the line of insanity that underlies 
wxwidgets.  ;)

Have fun, and good luck!

Dave

> I would love to get their feedback.
>
> TIA,
> Pete Stieber
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> jazzplusplus-devel mailing list
> jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel

[jazzplusplus-devel] Jazz++ Development Revival

[Pete S. <pst...@ve...>]

I would like to start a Jazz++ development revival.  I am particularly 
interested in a Windows version of Jazz++ that uses a recent version of 
wxWidgets.  I have extensive C++/wxWidgets/Visual Studio/Linux 
development experience.

I have contacted Patrick Earl and he was open to the idea.

Are any of the other Jazz++ team members (Kevin Cosgrove, Joakim Verona, 
Dave Fancella, Mark Constable, and/or Matt Kelly) still out their 
monitoring this list?

I would love to get their feedback.

TIA,
Pete Stieber

[jazzplusplus-devel] Configure script?

[Joey C. <joe...@gm...>]

I checked the install instructions with the source code, and I'm 
supposed to do the ./configure, make, and make install according to it.  
However, there is no configure script with the source code. 
Joey

[jazzplusplus-devel] wxWidgets-2.6

[Nathan F. <nf...@gr...>]

I'm trying to help one of my users get jazz++ compiled and have a couple 
questions about it. I have wxWidgets-2.6 installed globally on my 
system, but the homepage seems to imply that you need wxWidgets-2.4. I 
didn't think it would be too much of an issue but am encountereing a lot 
of errors, so I'm wondering if the older version of wxWidgets is what I 
need.

Specifically I had to add '#include "wx/dialog.h"' to src/xw_frame.cpp 
and also '#include "wx/xh_panel.h"' to src/xh_panel.cpp. This gets me 
partway through the build but then this happens.

g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../src 
-I/usr/lib/wx/include/gtk2-ansi-release-2.6 -I/usr/include/wx-2.6 
-DGTK_NO_CHECK_CASTS -D__WXGTK__ -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGE_FILES 
-D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE=1 -Iinclude -g -O2 
-I/usr/lib/wx/include/gtk2-ansi-release-2.6 -I/usr/include/wx-2.6 
-DGTK_NO_CHECK_CASTS -D__WXGTK__ -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGE_FILES 
-D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE=1 -MT xmlres.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/xmlres.Tpo -c 
xmlres.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/xmlres.o
xmlres.cpp:323: error: prototype for `void 
wxXmlResource::UpdateResources()'
  does not match any in class `wxXmlResource'
/usr/include/wx-2.6/wx/xrc/xmlres.h:244: error: candidate is: bool
  wxXmlResource::UpdateResources()
xmlres.cpp:323: error: `void wxXmlResource::UpdateResources()' and `bool
  wxXmlResource::UpdateResources()' cannot be overloaded
xmlres.cpp:543: error: prototype for `wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*)' 
does not
  match any in class `wxXmlResource'
/usr/include/wx-2.6/wx/xrc/xmlres.h:256: error: candidate is: wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*,
  wxXmlResourceHandler*)
xmlres.cpp: In member function `wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*)':
xmlres.cpp:544: error: `CreateResFromNode2' undeclared (first use this
  function)
xmlres.cpp:544: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once 
for
  each function it appears in.)
xmlres.cpp: At global scope:
xmlres.cpp:550: error: no `wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode2(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*,
  wxXmlResourceHandler*)' member function declared in class `wxXmlResource'
xmlres.cpp: In member function `wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode2(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*,
  wxXmlResourceHandler*)':
xmlres.cpp:569: error: call of overloaded `CreateResFromNode(wxXmlNode*,
  wxObject*&, wxObject*&)' is ambiguous
/usr/include/wx-2.6/wx/xrc/xmlres.h:256: error: candidates are: wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*,
  wxXmlResourceHandler*)
xmlres.cpp:543: error:                 wxObject*
  wxXmlResource::CreateResFromNode(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*)
xmlres.cpp: In constructor `wxXmlResourceHandler::wxXmlResourceHandler()':
xmlres.cpp:640: error: class `wxXmlResourceHandler' does not have any field
  named `m_instanceAsWindow'
xmlres.cpp: In member function `wxObject*
  wxXmlResourceHandler::CreateResource(wxXmlNode*, wxObject*, wxObject*)':
xmlres.cpp:650: error: `m_instanceAsWindow' undeclared (first use this
  function)
xmlres.cpp: At global scope:
xmlres.cpp:955: error: prototype for `wxSize
  wxXmlResourceHandler::GetSize(const wxString&)' does not match any in 
class
  `wxXmlResourceHandler'
/usr/include/wx-2.6/wx/xrc/xmlres.h:423: error: candidate is: wxSize
  wxXmlResourceHandler::GetSize(const wxString&, wxWindow*)
xmlres.cpp: In member function `wxPoint 
wxXmlResourceHandler::GetPosition(const
  wxString&)':
xmlres.cpp:990: error: call of overloaded `GetSize(const wxString&)' is
  ambiguous
/usr/include/wx-2.6/wx/xrc/xmlres.h:423: error: candidates are: wxSize
  wxXmlResourceHandler::GetSize(const wxString&, wxWindow*)
xmlres.cpp:955: error:                 wxSize
  wxXmlResourceHandler::GetSize(const wxString&)
xmlres.cpp: At global scope:
xmlres.cpp:997: error: prototype for `wxCoord
  wxXmlResourceHandler::GetDimension(const wxString&, int)' does not 
match any
  in class `wxXmlResourceHandler'
/usr/include/wx-2.6/wx/xrc/xmlres.h:430: error: candidate is: wxCoord
  wxXmlResourceHandler::GetDimension(const wxString&, int, wxWindow*)
make[1]: *** [xmlres.lo] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/opt/home/nathan/jazz/xrc'
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1

Any pointers?

Thanks,
Nathan

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Hi

[Bride B. <vi...@fd...>]

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applause.

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Hi

[Renae S. <ho...@do...>]

Hi,

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decision is up to you.
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] chord help

[Matthew P. K. <ra...@ch...>]

Leigh --

The jazz++ development is pretty much dead. :(

My advice to you would be to check out Rosegarden. It's a MIDI
sequencer, but
you can work in musical notation if you like, rather than a piano-roll.
I've been using
it. It's an excellent app.

This of course presumes you are running Linux. I'm not sure if
Rosegarden runs
on windows, but I don't think so.

Otherwise, jazz++ is an excellent choice, even the old-ish version
that's out there.
It's pretty intuitive to use.

Good luck,

Matt


leigh beynon wrote:
> Hi,
> Im not sure what your programme does i just noticed it on a link in a
> forum asking about chords,
> i want to create disco tracks included funky rhodes jazz chords, i
> cant play keys
> so need a tool to help me layout chord progressions. I can laydown
> basslines and other aspects but chords i cant
> would your programme help me with this ? if so how ?
>
> many thanks leigh
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Spaces is here! It=92s easy to create your own personal We=
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>
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> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> jaz...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jazzplusplus-devel
>  =20

[jazzplusplus-devel] chord help

[leigh b. <tra...@ho...>]

Hi,
Im not sure what your programme does i just noticed it on a link in a forum 
asking about chords,
i want to create disco tracks included funky rhodes jazz chords, i cant play 
keys
so need a tool to help me layout chord progressions. I can laydown basslines 
and other aspects but chords i cant
would your programme help me with this ? if so how ?

many thanks leigh

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Spaces is here! It’s easy to create your own personal Web site. 
  http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx

[jazzplusplus-devel] Roland JV 1010 Patch List

[Dan C. <da...@ma...>]

I'm using a Roland JV 1010 with Jazz ++ and I can only access the GM =
bank of my synth. Does somebody have a patch list for the JV 1010? Or =
can somebody tell how to create one. Any assistance would be greatly =
appreciated.

Dan Curtis

[jazzplusplus-devel] PROPOSITION

[wz <w....@ao...>]

Hello!

First of all I think the Jazz++ Midi sequenzer has a big potential an
congratulations for the big efforts till today!

I'm irritated because the last version you can precompiled download  for
Windows ist over 5 Years old
In the computers  a time distanze over 5 Years is like "eternaty"!!

5 YEARS OLD SOFTWARE!!
Please make a precompiled last Version for MS-Windows-OS

PROPOSITION:
There are many Multitrack Software (Steinberg Cubase, Cakewalk, Rosegarden
etc.)
but I think it is better to concentrate the power to a specialized software
tool especially MIDI-Editing.

VELOCITY ("Randomizing"  ist NOT ENOUGH like "Humanizing")
Many good features has the Powertracks (PG Music) like Humazing (randomize)
and Filters for MIDI-Editing.
But I think there are some features in ALL MIDI-Editors MISSING!!
I didn't found any feature to increase (%  or absolute) velocity on the
heavy-quarters
(like 1st and 3rd beat) in a 4/4 beat or the 1st noet in a 3/4 beat 1st and
4th in a 6/8 beat).
otherwise you must do this bay hand beta by beat and Track by track (waste
many time).
This is more than "humanizing the velocity" because this is an important and
very neccessary MUSIC-FEATURE!

PLAYER
Additinally I 'm thinking that a tool (a "only" Player)  for live musicians
(with playlist) to play wave/Mp3 simultanously like
(miditemp-Embedded, playlist-player, Winlive pro etc.) is also very
important to make linux interesting ans usfull for  musicians!

Please give me a feedback how do you think of this idias ?

best regards
W.M.Zankl

[jazzplusplus-devel] Hi! I'm a fan of your project, Jazz++

[Ricardo G. <ric...@ya...>]

and I'd like to thank you all for working so hard to make such a
product. The last version i used a couple of years ago was quite buggy,
and i left it right away - but now that I see you ported it to
wxwidgets 2.4, i can't wait to test it.

Anyway, the reason for my mail is to announce a tool that might help
you speed up the development of jazz++.

It's called Codeblocks, and it's a cross-platform IDE hosted on
sourceforge, that we're working on. It was originally designed to work
with MinGW/GCC, but we've expanded it to work with other compilers
(such as digital mars, MSVC). You can find it at http://codeblocks.org/

Anyway, congratulations, and keep up the good work! :)


		
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Yahoo! Sports 
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football 
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Change of direction?

[Mark C. <ma...@re...>]

On Monday 16 May 2005 04:35, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
> Thanks for all the energy getting Jazz++ started again.  Bummer
> that we couldn't get enough critical mass to shove the code back
> into production state.
> ...

That's a very pertinent point Kevin. It is such a shame
that some excellent code and functionality buried in a
morasse of so-so code should die, unless someone
miraculously steps up to save it.

A suggestion: rather than even try to build it all back
into a working whole thing, why not focus on pulling
it apart into the smallest and most usable components
that are actually usable, chuck the less than stellar
parts, and rebuild smaller, more *nixy components, that
are strung together via jack and alsa-lib ?

Then the possibility of grafting on Qt/GTK/pythonian
frontends becomes a few-weekends potential rather than
a few-years target. I think the ultimate linux based
audio "app" does not quite exist yet because the smaller
apps (hydrogen, specimen, seq24, various synths) are not
based on the same set of middle level libs and are written
by a variety of authors. We already have rosegarden/muse
so the mega-app already mostly exist too. Sure, jazzplus
could be become a better mega-app but only if 10k man
hours of software engineering are applied to it... and
by that time, rosegarden/muse will also be much better
and... well, then what's the point of not spending those
man hours helping to improve current mega-apps that do
have engineering effort and inertia behind them.

What, to me, is still missing is a coherent set of
small focussed audio apps that do one job and do it
well, and allow moderate level programmers to be able
to maintain and extend them, and are designed from
the very beginning to work well together.

--markc

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Change of direction?

[Kevin C. <ke...@do...>]

On 15 May 2005 at 15:41, Dave Fancella <da...@da...> wrote:

> Have you checked out Hydrogen?  It has an almost workable
> export to RoseGarden. :) It can also write midi files, iirc.
> It doesn't have a drum clef, but it's an excellent drum
> sequencer.

Yes, I've had a look at Hydrogen, and it seems to be the best drum 
seq I've seen since I had a Yamaha hardware seq in the '80s.  But, 
I play drums, and a sequencer doesn't help for the issue of looking 
at sheet music as a clue as to what thing to whack/kick next.  ;-)
Also, some folks will write drum parts for me and give me a MIDI file 
for the part.  Hydrogen doesn't (yet?) import MIDI as I recall from 
my look at it a few months back.

What about Rosegarden isn't nice for you?

Cheers....
--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Change of direction?

[Dave F. <da...@da...>]

On Sunday 15 May 2005 01:35 pm, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
> I like your thoughts on taking parts of Jazz++ with you to
> Python, Qt & KDE.  Maybe this list would be a good place to keep
> folks apprized of whatever work you do on this?  Maybe you'd even
> get some help?

I'll definitely keep you guys posted if I manage to do anything.  Like I say, 
there are a lot of tools to fill the need.  But I don't actually like 
RoseGarden, I have serious problems with its interface, even though it's 
actually gotten more stable.  I've got a newer version of KGuitar that I 
actually like more than RoseGarden for composing music, but for all the other 
wonderful midi tasks it doesn't hold up.  Of course, it wasn't designed to be 
a midi sequencer, it's just a tab maker with midi export.  :)

> Myself, I'm waiting on a drum-clef.  Since you say you like KDE,
> then Rosegarden might be for you too, although it works outside
> KDE as well.

Have you checked out Hydrogen?  It has an almost workable export to 
RoseGarden.  :)  It can also write midi files, iirc.  It doesn't have a drum 
clef, but it's an excellent drum sequencer.

> P.S.:	Are you an (the?) admin of http://jazzplusplus.sourceforge.net/ ?
>         If so, then did you get the Sourceforge email about
>         changing their site from the admin point of view?  It'd
>         be nice if JazzPlusPlus didn't die in that transition.
>         Is that something you can help it avoid?  Thanks.

I don't remember if I'm an admin there.  I'm pretty certain it'll survive 
sourceforge's updates, but I'll stick around on the list in case you need me 
to help for that.  Actually the list is low traffic enough there's no reason 
for me to run off and unsubscribe.  :)

Dave

 --
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Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Change of direction?

[Kevin C. <ke...@do...>]

Dave,

Thanks for all the energy getting Jazz++ started again.  Bummer
that we couldn't get enough critical mass to shove the code back
into production state.

I like your thoughts on taking parts of Jazz++ with you to
Python, Qt & KDE.  Maybe this list would be a good place to keep
folks apprized of whatever work you do on this?  Maybe you'd even
get some help?

Myself, I've mostly moved on to Rosegarden.  It's VERY functional
now, and has a much easier user interface than does Jazz++.  What
I miss from Jazz++ is the harmony browser and the percussion
specific piano roll, which might be in the plans for Rosegarden's
future.  But, Rosegarden has a built-in notation editor that
prints out very nice sheet music, which my band-mates like.
Myself, I'm waiting on a drum-clef.  Since you say you like KDE,
then Rosegarden might be for you too, although it works outside
KDE as well.

All the best....

P.S.:	Are you an (the?) admin of http://jazzplusplus.sourceforge.net/ ?
        If so, then did you get the Sourceforge email about
        changing their site from the admin point of view?  It'd
        be nice if JazzPlusPlus didn't die in that transition.
        Is that something you can help it avoid?  Thanks.
--
Kevin

Re: [jazzplusplus-devel] Change of direction?

[John H. <har...@me...>]

I've already done Python bindings for PortMidi. It works great on all 
platforms except OS 10.3.8 where PortMidi itself breaks.

http://sound.media.mit.edu/~harrison/pyportmidi.html

Hope this helps,

-John

Dave Fancella wrote:

>All,
>
>Well, I'm sorry.  I showed up with a lot of energy, worked real hard, and then 
>stopped, and it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to start again.  :(
>
>Here's the problem:
>
>Since Jazz++ is in C++, generally speaking a lot more consecutive time is 
>required to implement something.  For a general redesign, even more time is 
>required.  I don't have that time.  What I have is a lot of short bursts of 
>time that I can spend programming if there's a reasonable expectation that 
>I'll be able to complete at least one task.  This is shown in my other 
>leisurely programming activities, actually.  :)  I'm not the greatest C++ 
>programmer ever, so I need a lot more time to work with C++, time I don't 
>have.  If Jazz were in another language (Python, specifically) it would be a 
>different story.  But it's not.
>
>I would have tried to push for a general change to Python awhile back if there 
>were a library available that I knew of for reading/writing midi files, or if 
>it was reasonably something that could be implemented quickly.  The GUI 
>library (wxWidgets) is already well supported in Python, so reading/writing 
>midi files and midi playback (and any custom widgets needed) are the only 
>holdups to such a change.
>
>Well, I found a program call 'mma' that generates midi accompaniment, and it's 
>written in python.  Looks like they've got writing midi files down pretty 
>well, it should be reasonable to use that code to write a midi file reader 
>and go.  Playback is the only issue left, then.
>
>As a stopgap, pygame or pyAudiere would both provide midi playback, at least 
>until someone could throw python bindings around PortMidi.
>
>So, here's how I figure it.  There's some good code in Jazz++.  A lot of it 
>has to be thrown away in a language change like what I'm proposing.  There's 
>some bad code in Jazz++ (or at least I've made no secret of my feelings on 
>the matter).  IN C++ we have to keep working with it, around it, factoring it 
>out, and reimplementing the stuff that uses it.  In a language change we can 
>throw out all the bad code.  Some of the good code we get to take with us, 
>like the beautiful pianowin class.  Throw some python bindings around it and 
>use it as the start of our custom widget library and we can move on.  
>Trackwin can be easily re-implemented just like it is in Python.  And we get 
>to throw away the dependency on an old wxWidgets API, and in light of the 2.6 
>release this is a Very Good Thing.
>
>I figure the widgets we need can be written in Python to start, and then later 
>on when we need higher performance out of them, we can re-implement them in 
>C++.  That's the beautiful thing about Python.  :)
>
>For distribution, I don't know of a LInux distribution that doesn't include 
>Python by default, and then also doesn't include wxPython in its file 
>repository.  Linux users are taken care of.  Mac OS X includes Python by 
>default, and wxPython is rumored to be pretty stable there.  For Windows 
>there's py2exe, which creates a self-standing executable for a python 
>program.  (You can download my pyAlarm program to see how well it works if 
>you'd like)  We'd have to bundle the dependencies with it, in that case, and 
>that's fine.
>
>If we were to switch to Python, I would be able to find more time to work on 
>it.  That's my main personal benefit, but there are others.
>
>Python applications are generally faster to develop.  This is very 
>well-documented throughout the web so I won't go into detail, I can provide 
>links if you'd like.
>
>Python applications are cross-platform in general.  I can testify from 
>personal experience that it's a lot simpler to write and maintain a python 
>application across platforms than it is to do the same in C++.
>
>Python is a simple enough language to learn that other developers interested, 
>even if they don't know python, will be able to quickly take part in 
>development.
>
>The other issue is actually a plus, in a way.  I'm interested in dropping 
>wxPython from my toolbox when Qt is GPL for all platforms (which is promised 
>to happen pretty soon).  Then, when pyQt and pyKDE have updated, I intend to 
>make that switch.  Being a KDE user and all, I'd really prefer to have my own 
>programs run natively in my preferred environment.  So naturally I'd be 
>looking to make a Qt interface that could (and should) exist alongside a 
>wxGTK interface for those users who want one.  I don't know that I'll make it 
>or be able to keep up to pace with a wxGTK interface if that's what the core 
>uses, but it's not that big of a deal.  I'll be happy to keep wxPython around 
>for this application if need be.
>
>It's up to you guys.  I need to cut out completely from Jazz in C++.  I'd like 
>to work on a midi sequencer anyway, but frankly there are enough in my 
>environment that I"m not feeling any particular pain in that area.  I'd like 
>to do one to "do it better" and make it more like what I want (for instance 
>have it output mod files).  I'd like to work on a midi sequencer with this 
>group, I like all of you and you're all very talented programmers.  I'm happy 
>to have met each of you and I think I'm a better man for it.   If you guys 
>are interested in moving to Python for core development here and all you'd 
>need is a codebase to start from, I can throw together a prototype.  Luckily, 
>in Jazz++ development we're at a point where what we have is just slightly 
>more functional than a prototype, so the future of our work wouldn't be any 
>different, other than the language used.
>
>If you're not interested and you'd just as soon keep working on Jazz++ in C++, 
>then I need to cut out.  I'll be happy to roll back my changes for you if any 
>of you are blocked by me.
>
>So what do you think?
>
>Dave
>
>
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