Re: [Javacavemaps-developers] agile XP style development model
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Re: [Javacavemaps-developers] agile XP style development model
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From: Larry G. <jav...@ya...> - 2009-01-09 02:43:57
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Well, I was thinking we were working on a lighter, stronger, faster rodent demolition machine not reinventing the wheel. But haha, all spin aside, since this is MVC yes the view is almost pluggable and would not take much in the way of design changes to make it totally plugable. Such as writing the specifications for the view in a more general way so that the developer may use Swing, OpenGL, AWT, SWT, or his own custom components. I'd still like the swing version that I'm working on to be the default. I can maintain a few JPanels myself. Also If we package up a Jar as an applet say or web start app, how does another person add a Jar plugin say to the Applet or WebStart app? by posting it in the same folder on the server as the applet or webstart app? or at least on the same server in a location where the applet or ws app knows to look for plugins? I worked office work for 6 years I used all the big name office software. As you know there are many databases. The state departement had been licensing Microsoft office software mostly. The office I worked in had an old version of DOS Paradox database. We needed to update some stuff to a new windows database. The director just knew we must use Paradox database because she had heard MS Access was slow. I wanted to use MS Access so she told me to do some research. I did and found an article exclaiming that the reason MS Access had been given a bad reputation in this requard is because most of the users were not away of or did not use indexing effectively. I ran some test and found that this was true. After showing her the article she let me use MS Access, which I had already invested some time in learning. I hate to use an old cleiche but I will, Half a dozen of one and 6 of another. Sometimes choices nearly boil down to this. Somtimes not. When I first started mapping caves I got resistance to drawing too much detail. I got resitance to using scale that was too large so that I could get more detail in. I got resistance to using more acurate methods and tools. Later I got a large group of well know cave mappers to help me on a large cave. Well they did the line survey well enough but didnt listen to me at all when I was explaining the way I wanted the skecthing done. As a result I'll probably resketch small sections some time. They basically didnt provide the detail I was trying to achive. Also some cavers are basically explorers only, and can't stand mapping. They may occasionally help out by pulling the dumb end of the tape on a survey. Anyway I explain to these folks that the cave itself is a geologic formation just like stalactites and flow stone and soda straws. I explain that the only way to view this formation is to map the cave. I also explain this to sketchers but usually with no results, they sketch the way they want to. I'm not sure what this means but there it is. Everyone mapping caves is doing it for free. People help out usually so that they can get a copy of the map or find out where the cave is at. I guess what I was getting at is this. There are lots of areas of enjoyment when it comes to developing software. Some may be more into coding logic, others maybe architecture, others managing the project and yet others trying out various methods of colaboration. Some developers may feel they can't code any way but alone, others may want the team experiance. The experiance of having an organized colaborative effort can only be had one way, orgainzed. Even in cave mapping we organize projects and trips and team positions. One guy is in charge of the cave being mapped, its usually the guy who started it and who is drawing up the final map. Larry Gray la...@ar... ________________________________ From: sean wagner <wa...@ya...> To: Larry Gray <jav...@ya...> Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 6:50:38 PM Subject: Re: [Javacavemaps-developers] agile XP style development model There is an orthogonal perspective in OpenGL I know of. I have seen some isometic models done that way. A lot of CAD programs use the orthogonal perspective, I think thats kinda the feel you are going for. Honestly I think what is more important to worry about though is the data layers representation. The view can always change, or you can have multiple views, but data is the hardest thing to change later on. Do you want to run your own database server for this application? How will data be shared amongst users? Also OpenGL will not work on some computer possibly older than 4 years depending on which version you use. If you do decide you want to use OpenGL you should be aware of what kind of machines your target audience will be using. If they are using an older computer we may want to use an older version of OpenGL (latest is like 2.1 I believe) since some hardware wont support the new stuff. I am unsure of which version of OpenGL Java3d is built upon I don't remember. --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Larry Gray <jav...@ya...> wrote: From: Larry Gray <jav...@ya...> Subject: Re: [Javacavemaps-developers] agile XP style development model To: wa...@ya... Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 5:00 PM ill look into opengl for the desktop applicaton, im willing to bet it or java3d does not even deal in isometrics because it to simple and easy to code Larry Gray la...@ar... ________________________________ From: sean wagner <wa...@ya...> To: jav...@li...; Larry Gray <jav...@ya...> Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 4:21:10 PM Subject: Re: [Javacavemaps-developers] agile XP style development model I wasn't saying I wont help. I was just saying I didn't want to participate in the 3d thing if that is the way you want to do it. It just doesn't interest me and I'm not getting paid. I will work on other aspects I find interesting, since that is why I am here. IMO there are many libraries that are very common place in the industry and are worth throwing in to almost any app you work on big or small. These include Log4j, JUnit, some other Swing extensions. They make life easier and take less than an hour to learn. There are other libraries that take a little time to learn, but if your project is medium to large scale, they will save you a lot of time and headache in the end. A good example is where I work there was a web reporting server designed in tomcat for rendering reports from a program that collected data. This web report engine was pretty limited and had alot of javascript and stuff which was a bitch to maintain compared to java, it was all created from the ground up. Yet why reinvent the wheel? I eventually had to rewrite his reporting engine, we used JFreeReport this time. Development time was cut in half and the end result was much more detailed and robust. The original design was a waste of time. Morale of the story is, you shouldn't try to re-invent the wheel when you can go pick up a tire for cheaper than it takes to build a wooden wheel. Also since this is an open source project, you will actually pull in more developers if you use the popular libraries in the field today, because they want to use them. They want to learn, they don't mind the complication. In fact most good programmers embrace the complication and think its fun. --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Larry Gray <jav...@ya...> wrote: From: Larry Gray <jav...@ya...> Subject: [Javacavemaps-developers] agile XP style development model To: jav...@li... Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:58 PM Obviously each developer who joins an open source project, his mileage will vary with each type of problem and each type of solution, along with his Architect, Developer and Programmer skills sets. And his mileage will vary from api to api, from library to library. Some developers for example may handle problems on a lager scale as quickly as new developers on much smaller problems. Agile development limits the scale of the project as a whole and additions to the project as it moves along. The problem is scale can not be arbitrarily increased in the name of extendability. The addtion of libs other than the standard api shipped with sdk adds bloat as well as complexity. For somoene who is used to that coding that lib instead of the standard lib, this seems only to this person as if the tradeoffs are imaterial. About extendability. Refactoring is always necessary reguardless of the api's you begin with. To think you can grab this wonderful extendable do it all lib and still not have to worry about refactoring is a little nieve IMHO. Anyway under agile development model we can't up the scale based on a promise to help if that is done. However if I see I have help because task are being completed, thats a sign that the scale can be increased. I will keep adding developers to this project until I find maybe a dirty dozen that seem to align themselve more with this process, the rest may simply watch and provide technical assitance sometimes if you really want to help. And maybe some will join in later as the project becomes more complex. Thanks Larry Gray la...@ar... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It is the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Xq1LFB _______________________________________________ Javacavemaps-developers mailing list Jav...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/javacavemaps-developers |
