java-gnome-developer — For people using the bindings to write their own applications

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] win32

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

> a couple of quick questions i couldn't find in the faq:
> 
> is java-gnome available on win32?  (is there somewhere i can 
> pick up a drop?)

It should be possible to compile java-gtk on the Windows
platform.  GTK does have a windows port and java-gnome
does not use any platform specific code in our native
jni layer.  As far as I know this has never been attempted.
If you are interested in trying this I would be happy to
provide support.

> how mature is the java GTK binding? (could one ship a product 
> on it in the next year?)

Currently java-gnome is undergoing a major rewrite.  I expect
it will take at least 2 additional months to completely stablize
the code, update the examples and documentation and perform
all necessary testing to have a high quality release.  At that 
point we will have very solid wrappers around all of the gtk
and gnome widgets and utility classes.  From that point I intend
to have more frequent releases that will primarily address changes
to the underlying libs and continue to build out higher level
classes to fill-in-the-blanks that exist in the C libraries.
To answer your question, java-gnome is currently not stable enough
to consider for production applications.  This situation will be
different six months from now.

-Jeff

[Java-gnome-developer] win32

[Jonathan L. <jl...@in...>]

a couple of quick questions i couldn't find in the faq:

is java-gnome available on win32?  (is there somewhere i can pick up a =
drop?)

how mature is the java GTK binding? (could one ship a product on it in =
the next year?)

thanks!

    jon

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] Which libraries are used?

[Clemens E. <Lin...@we...>]

Thank you for your interresting response!

> I agree that swing is quite difficult.  At the same time I think
> I can make java-gnome even simpler that it currently is.  I want
> to make the event handling very clear (not guess work like what
> currently exists).  I want to remove methods from the public
> interface that were only intended for internal development in the
> native libraries.  I want to make higher-level abstractions that
> simplify the creation of menus, etc.  I want to have more control
> over the API than I have with the generator.  If there are multiple
> methods that perform the same task I want to remove one of them.  If
> there are methods that are confusing I want to provide a simpler
> wrapper over them.
>
That would be a quite difficult and time-intesive thing, but I think it 
would be great for all the java-gtk developers!
There are very much funktions in 0.7.1 which arent really needed

. 

 >When developers want to write apps for GTK/GNOME
 >they should be able to use Java.  That is my goal. If there is the

> added benefit of using those apps on the Windows platform this is
>
> a great bonus. 
>
You're probably right. GNU-developers develop there aps most time with 
low-level languages like C....

 >Again, the swing interfaces would be a very large undertaking.
O.K, I unserstand....It was only an altanativ proposal


Yeah, I said taht I'm willed to help you. I think its better for my to 
write dokus or to design a better Homepage.

I've currently two projects that I must finish: The vocab-trainer and a 
politic-game written in C++.

Thanks for developing such great Software!!!

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] Which libraries are used?

[Clemens E. <Lin...@we...>]

Hello Jeff!

> 1) Simplifying the public interface of the library.  In the past
> the java-gnome public interface provided a one-for-one mapping to
> the methods of the native libraries.  This was a bad design decision
> for two reasons.  First, it made the libraries very large and
> difficult for a new developer to grasp.  Second, the public interface
> did not feel very java-like.  It did not leverage the existing classes
> from the JDK and did not follow the patterns that are common to
> java class libraries.  In the simplified version currently under
> development the classes will still have access to all of the
> methods of the native libraries via protected methods in the classes.
> A public interface will be built on top of that to provide a robust
> class library.
>
Hmm. I think the public interface of java-gtk0.7.1 is very clear and 
very simple. I started to learn swing these days, because I decided tow 
rite my vocab-programm in SWING (I'm really sorry, but thats the best 
solution I think), and I really wondered how complex swing is. I worked 
4 hours on an JTable and there arent any methods for asking the value...
So, I liked it very much that all java-gtk widgets are static and I dont 
think that they need to be more java-like.

> 2) Simplify the bindings themselves to make it easier for developers
> to contribute the project.  Time and time again developers have joined
> the project only to find out how complex the project is and eventually
> leave the project altogether.  If this project is to be a success I
> am going to need help.  Most people that want to contribute come from
> a Java background and know little about C or even JNI.  As a result I
> am restructuring the bindings by moving more of the code from the
> C/JNI layer up into the Java layer.  In fact, the C/JNI layer and the
> Java methods that will provide access to them will be fixed and in
> place.  All that will be necessary for most developers is to help
> design the public interface and write Java code that calls the native
> methods to implement that interface.  Unless the native access layer
> changes (which I hope will not happen often) there will be no need
> for the majority of developers to even compile the native libs more
> than once.  I have also added the files necessary to work in the
> eclipse IDE to cvs.  Eclipse will work on Linux and Windows.  If
> there is a Windows port of the bindings developers should be able
> to contribute from either platform.
>
Hmm, this semms to be a pretty solution. To make more things in Java 
will make the bindings smaller.

> 3) Simplify the build process.  When I first got started with java-gnome
> about two years ago I knew nothing about the GNU build tools.  As the
> project grew I continued to hack my way through the build process and
> managed to create a "beast of burden".  In this new version the generator
> will not be part of the build process.  The new build will provide
> four targets.  They will be jar, native, test, and all (the default).
> By default it will build all of the wrappers (libglade, libgladegnome,
> gtk, libgnome, and libgnomeui) but there will be configure options that
> will allow you to exclude parts of the bindings.  The test target needs
> a little more explanation.  I intend to build up a testing framework
> that will be based on JUnit to provide tests for all methods in the
> public interface.  This will help us ensure that we are producing a
> quality product.
>
Good idea! I had to build my libjavagtk.so myself because the 
build-scripts where broken.

> So the next question is "Where am I in this process?".  I have completed
> and checked into cvs the java and native code for glib, pango, atk,
> and gdk.  I have not provided the public interface for these libs yet.
> I hope to check in the java and native code for gtk today and the same
> for gnome and glade tomorrow.  Over the weekend I will complete the new
> build files.  At that point I need to start writing the public interface
> and tests for the bindings.  This will go much faster if I have help. 
> I have started an object model that is in cvs.  I would like to find
> somebody that would be willing to maintain this model.
>
> I think it would be very simple to compile the new version of the
> bindings on Windows.  I have already downloaded the Windows version
> of GTK2 and the associated libraries with the intention of trying
> to get this to work.  If you could do this that would be great.  Once
> you complete the compilation of the native layer you could help with
> the definition and coding of the public interface.
>
Of course I'm willed to help you!
But there are several problems:
1. I dont understand much C, nothing JNI, and my java isnt the best.
2. Time: I've to produce moch other apps for my school, and everybody I 
asked said to me, that I should do it with swing ;-((
3. Not sure about the future of java-gtk:
I came to the java-gtk project because I liked to produce compiled apps 
with gcj. But now gcj supports awt and I'm sure that a 
swing-implemetaion will follow in the next 1-2 years. The swing-part 
will be also built on the top of gtk.
So if I use swing I'll be compatible to all VMs and maybe soon the gcj, 
which would be also native.

What do you think about a swing-implementationon the top of gtk and how 
complex would that be?
What do you think of two possible java-gtk interfaces? the original and 
the swing....?
I also belive that that solution will strongly increase the number of 
java-gtk programms, because now many coders dont want to learn a new api.
I hope you are not angry because I said my thoughts, you're still the 
best developer I've ever seen.

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] timeline

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

> hi,
>   I'm just wondering if you could possibly give a rough idea about the
> expected time line for Java-Gnome if all goes well. i.e. how 
> long is it
> likely to be until:
> * cvs code compiles

cvs does compile now although there is a nasty bug I wanted
to fix before turning it lose to everybody.  There is a change
in the build process.  The build uses ant to compile the java
portions of the bindings.  You will need to download it and
put the <install-dir>/bin directory in your path.  You can
download it at:

http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-ant/release/v1.5/bin/

> * important widgets are done, you will be looking for more 
> help with the
> others

Hopefully I will have several of the primary widgets completed
by early next week.  If you want to contribute by working on 
some of the widgets you can get started now.

> * API reasonably stable (it will be possible to start work on
> applications)

This will depend on how much help I can get.  I have two developers
that are getting started with the project.  Based on the three
of use working on the project we are probably about two weeks away
from having the major widgets available and about six weeks away 
from having something close to a release.  More people on the project
could drastically shorten this timeline.

> * Java-Gnome released

See the above note.

> I know it's not easy to determine such things, but please 
> try. We won't
> mind if it takes longer than you suggest.
>
> I am currently planning the gui to a large open source application
> (backend code is currently been written). This is why I'm asking about
> the timeline.
> I want to use java-gnome; some other people in the team would prefer
> swing (although they all recognise the advantages of gtk); discussions
> have also taken place recently considering gtk in C (but this 
> would not
> work well with out backend code and we don't have people who are very
> experienced in either).

The last release of java-gnome was fairly stable although there are
many reasons for you to wait for the next release.  This release will
include a completely different public interface (I hope much simpler).
Another nice feature of the next release of java-gnome is that it
supports GTK2 and GNOME2.  Also, I do have plans to eventually support
GnomePrint, GConf and Bonobo.  This will not be included in the next 
release but are looming on the horizon.

Whether you use C/GTK or java-gnome is up to you.  With java-gnome you will
get a high-level OO interface to the same capabilities as you would have
with C.  If you use GCJ to compile to binaries you will also experience
performance that is very close to the C code.

Good luck.

-Jeff

[Java-gnome-developer] timeline

[Mark H. <mh...@ti...>]

hi,
  I'm just wondering if you could possibly give a rough idea about the
expected time line for Java-Gnome if all goes well. i.e. how long is it
likely to be until:
* cvs code compiles
* important widgets are done, you will be looking for more help with the
others
* API reasonably stable (it will be possible to start work on
applications)
* Java-Gnome released

I know it's not easy to determine such things, but please try. We won't
mind if it takes longer than you suggest.

I am currently planning the gui to a large open source application
(backend code is currently been written). This is why I'm asking about
the timeline.
I want to use java-gnome; some other people in the team would prefer
swing (although they all recognise the advantages of gtk); discussions
have also taken place recently considering gtk in C (but this would not
work well with out backend code and we don't have people who are very
experienced in either).
--=20

+----------------------------------------------+
| Mark Howard               cam.ac.uk   mh344@ |
| http://www.tildemh.com    tildemh.com    mh@ |
+----------------------------------------------+

[Java-gnome-developer] GdkWindow getSize().

[Marcel T. <mt...@dw...>]

Hi there, 

I am new to this list so please bear with me if I ask some newbie questions:

How do request the size of a GdkWindow ?

GdkWindow:
	public void getSize(int width,  int height)

I cannot retrieve de size like this in java :(  Java has no notion of pointer 
to primitives. Only objects can be (and always are) pointers.

kind regards,

Marcel Toele

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] ZvtTerm widget!

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

ZvtTerm is a widget that I started but didn't finish.
If you are interested in using this widget I could 
make sure it is included in the next release.  If
you are willing to work on this widget I would be
happy to help you get started.

-Jeff

> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> Is the ZvtTerm widget usable in java-gnome 7.1?
> How can I connect the Widget to a terminal?
> I've been told that in gtk, fork_pty() is used to write in stdin.What
> should I do whith this widget to have a shell?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> java-gnome-developer mailing list
> jav...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/java-gnome-developer
> 

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] Which libraries are used?

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

> 
> In about 14days a freind of my and i'll port java-gnome 0.7 
> to windows.

This is great news.  I have started to look into this myself.
Once you get started let's stay in close contact.  I will be
very interested in your progress.

There are a few things you should consider.  If you have checked
cvs lately you will notice that there are a tremendous number
of adds and updates taking place.  This is because I am in the
process of completely restructuring the java-gnome bindings.  This
restructuring is going to address three areas in the project that
have needed significant work.  They are (in order of importance):

1) Simplifying the public interface of the library.  In the past
the java-gnome public interface provided a one-for-one mapping to
the methods of the native libraries.  This was a bad design decision
for two reasons.  First, it made the libraries very large and 
difficult for a new developer to grasp.  Second, the public interface
did not feel very java-like.  It did not leverage the existing classes
from the JDK and did not follow the patterns that are common to
java class libraries.  In the simplified version currently under
development the classes will still have access to all of the 
methods of the native libraries via protected methods in the classes.
A public interface will be built on top of that to provide a robust
class library.

2) Simplify the bindings themselves to make it easier for developers
to contribute the project.  Time and time again developers have joined
the project only to find out how complex the project is and eventually
leave the project altogether.  If this project is to be a success I
am going to need help.  Most people that want to contribute come from
a Java background and know little about C or even JNI.  As a result I
am restructuring the bindings by moving more of the code from the
C/JNI layer up into the Java layer.  In fact, the C/JNI layer and the
Java methods that will provide access to them will be fixed and in
place.  All that will be necessary for most developers is to help
design the public interface and write Java code that calls the native
methods to implement that interface.  Unless the native access layer
changes (which I hope will not happen often) there will be no need
for the majority of developers to even compile the native libs more
than once.  I have also added the files necessary to work in the
eclipse IDE to cvs.  Eclipse will work on Linux and Windows.  If 
there is a Windows port of the bindings developers should be able 
to contribute from either platform.

3) Simplify the build process.  When I first got started with java-gnome
about two years ago I knew nothing about the GNU build tools.  As the
project grew I continued to hack my way through the build process and
managed to create a "beast of burden".  In this new version the generator
will not be part of the build process.  The new build will provide
four targets.  They will be jar, native, test, and all (the default).
By default it will build all of the wrappers (libglade, libgladegnome,
gtk, libgnome, and libgnomeui) but there will be configure options that 
will allow you to exclude parts of the bindings.  The test target needs
a little more explanation.  I intend to build up a testing framework
that will be based on JUnit to provide tests for all methods in the
public interface.  This will help us ensure that we are producing a
quality product.

So the next question is "Where am I in this process?".  I have completed
and checked into cvs the java and native code for glib, pango, atk, 
and gdk.  I have not provided the public interface for these libs yet.
I hope to check in the java and native code for gtk today and the same
for gnome and glade tomorrow.  Over the weekend I will complete the new 
build files.  At that point I need to start writing the public interface
and tests for the bindings.  This will go much faster if I have help.  
I have started an object model that is in cvs.  I would like to find 
somebody that would be willing to maintain this model.

I think it would be very simple to compile the new version of the
bindings on Windows.  I have already downloaded the Windows version
of GTK2 and the associated libraries with the intention of trying
to get this to work.  If you could do this that would be great.  Once
you complete the compilation of the native layer you could help with
the definition and coding of the public interface.

> We need to know the following things:
> 
> 1.) Will it build with gtk1.3, which should be very identical to 1.2.7

I know it worked with 1.2.7. You should have no problems with this.

> 2.) Wich Libraries are used by the bindings?

I use the config programs (gtk-config for GTK1 or pkg-config for GTK2) 
to determine the necessary libraries for the native layer.  Other than 
that I just use the JNI library that is provided by the JDK.

> 3.) Is the code portable? -Or do we need cygwin and gcc to compile it?

The code should be completely portable if the necessary glib/gtk/gnome 
libs are present.  The JNI code is not platform specific.


-Jeff

[Java-gnome-developer] ZvtTerm widget!

[Rubio Jr. <ser...@hi...>]

Hi guys!

Is the ZvtTerm widget usable in java-gnome 7.1?
How can I connect the Widget to a terminal?
I've been told that in gtk, fork_pty() is used to write in stdin.What
should I do whith this widget to have a shell?


Thanks!

[Java-gnome-developer] Which libraries are used?

[Clemens E. <Lin...@we...>]

Hello!

In about 14days a freind of my and i'll port java-gnome 0.7 to windows.
We need to know the following things:

1.) Will it build with gtk1.3, which should be very identical to 1.2.7
2.) Wich Libraries are used by the bindings?
3.) Is the code portable? -Or do we need cygwin and gcc to compile it?

Thx for help, Clemens

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] make error

[Rubio Jr. <ser...@hi...>]

Ok, thanks. I will follow your indications.

See you!

On Tue, 2002-07-30 at 14:01, Jeffrey Morgan wrote:
> Welcome to Linux and java-gnome 8-)
> 
> I would seriously recommend that you do not use the
> code from cvs.  The bindings are currently going through
> a major rework and are far from complete.  To get started
> you could download the latest release.  
> 
> Please stay posted to this mailing list for updates on the
> progress of the new release.
> 
> Thanks
> -Jeff
> 
> > 
> > Hi everyone!
> > 
> > I'm new to the java-gnome world and almost new to the linux 
> > world so I don't 
> > know how to solve a problem compiling the cvs sources:
> > 
> > ./configure
> > All the stuff is available, but when I run make , I get the 
> > following error:
> > 
> > make -C src gtk gnome
> > make[1]: Entering directory `/home/rubiojr/cvs/gnome/java-gnome/src'
> > make[1]: *** No rule to make target 
> > `org/gnu/glib/Boxed.java', needed by 
> > `org/gnu/glib/Boxed.class'.  Stop.
> > make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/rubiojr/cvs/gnome/java-gnome/src'
> > make: *** [distro] Error 2
> > 
> > I use debian woody and I have all the gnome2 stuff working. 
> > Could anyone help 
> > me?
> > 
> > Thanks for your patience and time.
> > 
> > Great work guys.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board
> > for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today!
> > http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31
> > _______________________________________________
> > java-gnome-developer mailing list
> > jav...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/java-gnome-developer
> > 

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] make error

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

Welcome to Linux and java-gnome 8-)

I would seriously recommend that you do not use the
code from cvs.  The bindings are currently going through
a major rework and are far from complete.  To get started
you could download the latest release.  

Please stay posted to this mailing list for updates on the
progress of the new release.

Thanks
-Jeff

> 
> Hi everyone!
> 
> I'm new to the java-gnome world and almost new to the linux 
> world so I don't 
> know how to solve a problem compiling the cvs sources:
> 
> ./configure
> All the stuff is available, but when I run make , I get the 
> following error:
> 
> make -C src gtk gnome
> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/rubiojr/cvs/gnome/java-gnome/src'
> make[1]: *** No rule to make target 
> `org/gnu/glib/Boxed.java', needed by 
> `org/gnu/glib/Boxed.class'.  Stop.
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/rubiojr/cvs/gnome/java-gnome/src'
> make: *** [distro] Error 2
> 
> I use debian woody and I have all the gnome2 stuff working. 
> Could anyone help 
> me?
> 
> Thanks for your patience and time.
> 
> Great work guys.
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board
> for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today!
> http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31
> _______________________________________________
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> jav...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/java-gnome-developer
> 

[Java-gnome-developer] make error

[Rubio Jr. <ser...@hi...>]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to the java-gnome world and almost new to the linux world so I don't 
know how to solve a problem compiling the cvs sources:

./configure
All the stuff is available, but when I run make , I get the following error:

make -C src gtk gnome
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/rubiojr/cvs/gnome/java-gnome/src'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target `org/gnu/glib/Boxed.java', needed by 
`org/gnu/glib/Boxed.class'.  Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/rubiojr/cvs/gnome/java-gnome/src'
make: *** [distro] Error 2

I use debian woody and I have all the gnome2 stuff working. Could anyone help 
me?

Thanks for your patience and time.

Great work guys.

[Java-gnome-developer] Java-GTK login apps

[cedric <ced...@fr...>]

Hi,
I just put source and bins in CVS under sourceforfe for the tutorial app
jlogin:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/jlogin

Yet there isn't any realease (and wouldn't be any until a Makefile, or
autoconf file exist).
If anyone knows some basic of JAAS, he can try to make the jlogin apps work
with LDAP, or PAM, or anyother. Yet it use the simple SysAuth (only for PAM
and Windows).
Also a SWT view and a console view will add a lot for programmers wanting to
know more about MVC.
Note that some class are not yet thread safe (particulary the Controller
which is bad).

But anyways, with a bit of patience, you should be able to have a
replacement of xdm and co, by a Java login apps (even without any SUN
licenced code if you build jlogin with appropriate modules !).
Thus, if anyone succeed to compile the whole with gcc-3.1, it would be very
interesting to document the whole (would make a nice tutorial of java
technologies :-)

If any comments or interest, do not hestitate:
ced...@fr...
But note that next Monday, I will start working, thus my free time may
become a lot smaller...do not expect rapid change!

Cedric

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] cvs will not work - java-gnome under c onstruction

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

I am about to leave from work now.  I am sorry this
is a short reply.  I will try to provide more
details soon.

I have been very frustrated with the public API and 
the actual generated code for the project.  I'll 
address each separately.

Generated Code
The generated code has many problems and the generator 
is unable to handle numerous conditions.  Over time the
JNI layer became larger and more complex.  It also
made the project quite difficult to debug and was
a barrier for many who wanted to join the project.
The generator code that I just checked in (and will
be enhancing over the next few days) makes a very thin
JNI layer.  More code will be pushed up into the Java
layer as a result.

Java-GNOME API
The old generator attempted to create a public method for
each method in the native library that was being wrapped.
There were over 2300 public methods in java-gnome.  Since
it was structured much like the c libraries it didn't
feel like a well designed java class library.  Also, it
was so complex (due to the size) that it was difficult
to use.

The new generator will still create a wrapper around each
of the native library methods but will make them protected.
I will be writing (not generating) a public Java API over
these generated methods.  The public interface will be
simpler and more java-like.

This will change the public interface of the library.  I
am sorry for this.  This will be painful for those of
you that have existing code.  As you can imagine, there
is much Java code to be written and your help would be
appreciated.  The result will be a well designed, more
robust object-oriented class library.

Got to go now.  I will commit more code this evening.

Thanks
-Jeff


> On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 21:32, Jeffrey Morgan wrote:
> > For about the next month most of the examples
> > and tests will also not work in CVS.  I am
> > in the process of a long overdue restructuring
> > of the java-gnome bindings.  The end result is
> > going to be a much cleaner and easier to use
> > interface.  
> Could you give more details on this. Is it the internal workings of
> java-gnome that you are changing, or major changes to the API?
> (This would seem strange as you still call them 'bindings', 
> yet failure
> of the examples would suggest it is).
> 
> > For those of you who wish to see the project
> > succeed I could use your help.  The changes I
> > am making over the next few days will make it
> > much easier for you to contribute to the project.
> Intriguing. I guess we'll just have to wait a few days. 
> Please let us know more when you are ready.
> -- 
> 
> +----------------------------------------------+
> | Mark Howard               cam.ac.uk   mh344@ |
> | http://www.tildemh.com    tildemh.com    mh@ |
> +----------------------------------------------+
> 

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] cvs will not work - java-gnome under construction

[Mark H. <mh...@ti...>]

On Tue, 2002-07-23 at 21:32, Jeffrey Morgan wrote:
> For about the next month most of the examples
> and tests will also not work in CVS.  I am
> in the process of a long overdue restructuring
> of the java-gnome bindings.  The end result is
> going to be a much cleaner and easier to use
> interface. =20
Could you give more details on this. Is it the internal workings of
java-gnome that you are changing, or major changes to the API?
(This would seem strange as you still call them 'bindings', yet failure
of the examples would suggest it is).

> For those of you who wish to see the project
> succeed I could use your help.  The changes I
> am making over the next few days will make it
> much easier for you to contribute to the project.
Intriguing. I guess we'll just have to wait a few days.=20
Please let us know more when you are ready.
--=20

+----------------------------------------------+
| Mark Howard               cam.ac.uk   mh344@ |
| http://www.tildemh.com    tildemh.com    mh@ |
+----------------------------------------------+

[Java-gnome-developer] cvs will not work - java-gnome under construction

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

CVS will not compile at this time.  I hope to
change this situation within the next two
days.

For about the next month most of the examples
and tests will also not work in CVS.  I am
in the process of a long overdue restructuring
of the java-gnome bindings.  The end result is
going to be a much cleaner and easier to use
interface.  

For those of you who wish to see the project
succeed I could use your help.  The changes I
am making over the next few days will make it
much easier for you to contribute to the project.
If you know how to use java I could use your help.

Thanks
-Jeff

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] New java-gtk app

[Mark H. <mh...@ti...>]

On Sun, 2002-07-21 at 12:48, cedric wrote:
> I am searching for someone to old the source on a CVS tree=20

I suggest sourceforge,=20
http://www.sourceforge.net

You'll also get bug trackers, mailing lists,  webspace, a news system,
documentation manager and a few other strange items.

When you sign up for sourceforge they will ask you for a description of
the project, including why it is different from similar programs.
Mentioning that it is a tutorial application for i18n, MVC, JNI, &
Java-Gnome would be good idea for this description.

Please let us know when the source is publicly available.
--=20

+----------------------------------------------+
| Mark Howard               cam.ac.uk   mh344@ |
| http://www.tildemh.com    tildemh.com    mh@ |
+----------------------------------------------+

[Java-gnome-developer] New java-gtk app

[cedric <ced...@fr...>]

Hello,
I have just written an new java-gtk app.
It's a login window similar to WinXP one (in the idea at least).
It use only JNI and parse the /etc/passwd to log into a linux system.
a screenshot is available on http://www.gan-ne.ch/i18nLogin.jpg

I am searching for someone to old the source on a CVS tree (java-gnome
tree?) as I do not have a premanent net connection :-(
It is somewhat immature, but I try to design it to be a good and simple
tutorial apps to:
- internationalization with java
- MVC pattern (with UI independance)
- JNI programming
- maybe JAAS in the futur, but yet it only use SysAuth (aka with pam) to
login

The archiev is 1 Mo, and I can send it by email to the person which can put
it in a CVS tree.

Cedric

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] Development Status

[Jeffrey M. <ku...@zo...>]

On Mon, 2002-07-15 at 17:02, Jan Blunck wrote:
> 
> But there are also some drawbacks with higher-level APIs: you have
> to reduce the feature-set to become portable and the higher-level api's
> are often much slower than the low-level toolkit-wrapping APIs.
> 
> This is the problem that smalltalk implementations have since years. All
> the gui-toolkits are incompatible although the most of them are using 
> the
> same ideas like MVC.
> 
> The industry is paying attention when the toolkit is nearly complete 
> (you
> are supporting all widgets) and if it is fast. They are not interested 
> if
> it is too slow but has a sophisticated API. You must always remeber that
> in most commercial situations not the programmers are the deciders but
> the project leaders which are often non-programmers.

Is it possible to provide a well designed API that provides both the
high level abstractions that make GUI development simpler while at the
same time providing the speed and flexibility that are needed?

-Jeff

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] Development Status

[Jeffrey M. <Jef...@Br...>]

> I might be helping by talking of the project to engineering schools
> where researchers and/or students might help, particularly in EMN
> http://www.emn.fr or in ENST: http://www.infres.enst.fr/~elc/

Thanks

> 
> I'll let you know about my contacts in engineering schools.
> Do you know if Olivier Gnutknecht is still on the ride
> http://www.lirmm.fr/~gutkneco/devpt/javagnome.html ?

He hasn't been involved for nearly 2 years.

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] high-level OO gui toolkit

[Almotasim <alm...@no...>]

Related project you might already know:
http://jemacs.sourceforge.net/
"Compiling or running other packages will not require gnu.jemacs.swing.
The purpose is to make it easier to add other implementation packages
that do not depend on Swing. I'm hoping volunteers will help with this.
For example, I would like to see some or all of: a Jemacs package that
uses the Gnome2 text widgets (with Pango); one that uses the SWT toolkit
that is part of the Eclipse project; one that uses plain AWT; and one
that works on plain terminals."

Re: [Java-gnome-developer] Development Status

[Jan B. <j.b...@tu...>]

Am 2002.07.15 23:09 schrieb(en) Almotasim:
> 
> 2) Conception/technical points
> 
> >A higher-level object-oriented API is needed in order to make
> >java-gnome really viable.
> I think that's a very good idea to build a high-level OO GUI-API
> gathering the best features of Swing, Gtk, Qt, MFC + more (I actually
> thought at first it was already part of the Eclipse project). The key
> point probably relies on the community such a project is able to
> gather;

But there are also some drawbacks with higher-level APIs: you have
to reduce the feature-set to become portable and the higher-level api's
are often much slower than the low-level toolkit-wrapping APIs.

This is the problem that smalltalk implementations have since years. All
the gui-toolkits are incompatible although the most of them are using 
the
same ideas like MVC.

The industry is paying attention when the toolkit is nearly complete 
(you
are supporting all widgets) and if it is fast. They are not interested 
if
it is too slow but has a sophisticated API. You must always remeber that
in most commercial situations not the programmers are the deciders but
the project leaders which are often non-programmers.

Regards,
Jan

RE: [Java-gnome-developer] Development Status

[Almotasim <alm...@no...>]

 
> It is not necessary to support Windows and Motif.  I believe it would be
> useful to do so.  If SWT becomes a popular GUI toolkit many companies will
> use it to develop applications that target Win32.  These applications will
> be able to run immediately on GTK platforms.  Also, this makes it much
> easier
> for open-source applications to provide Windows ports.  In this way, the
> Windows users will begin to be exposed to the great work that is taking
> place in the open-source community.

ok, I think you're right: it's worth building windows 
on the open-source community, so that people can *see* the whole thing, before
diving into it!

> I will be talking to OTI about this proposal very soon.  I am sure
> they will be prohibited from direct involvement in the project but
> they very likely would be interested in providing moral support 8-)
> I am also going to float some of this idea to the core GTK/GNOME
> developers at this weeks GNOME Summit.  I'll post my results on
> this list.  Anybody interested in helping with some of the initial
> planning is welcome.

I might be helping by talking of the project to engineering schools
where researchers and/or students might help, particularly in EMN
http://www.emn.fr or in ENST: http://www.infres.enst.fr/~elc/


> The public C++ API could be almost identical to the public
> Java API and could leverage the work already completed in
> providing the native peer interface.  

sounds great.

> Ximian will be using C# once their C# compiler/environment is mature.
ok, that's astonishing (to me).

I'll let you know about my contacts in engineering schools.
Do you know if Olivier Gnutknecht is still on the ride
http://www.lirmm.fr/~gutkneco/devpt/javagnome.html ?

Regards
Almo

A pointer towards something different that you might have read already,
which is also about designing open windows on the world: 
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0207.thompson.html