Re: j2s-development] gwt groups post

[Zhou R. <jo...@sj...>]

Ash Wima wrote:
> hi zhou,
>
> as i type this response i cant help but feel that this discussion is a
> distraction from you remaining focused on delivering your two
> remaining milestones. i want to see you complete this achievement as
> much as any other member in your community.
>
> i thought that it is important to first focus on the business problem
> rather the techincal problem. hence, i would like to return to the
> statement that i ended the last message with: "is the right problem
> was being solved?"
>
> the reason why i keep returning here is because i also keep arriving
> at the same answers to the following problems:
>
> Problem 1.
> ----------
> if you had a desktop java application (or you are an enterprise with a
> significant investment in java desktop apps), what is the most
> effective way of making that application available on a browser and
> reduce the total cost of ownership?
>
> if feel that if xml11 was more mature, then that would be my preferred option.
>
> why did i not choose j2s?
> well xml11 is more about taking an existing asset (unchanged), and
> remoting its display like X11. if i represented the business, i would
> not want IT to take an existing asset, create a derivative asset,
> fully test the new derivative work and now pay for the ongoing
> operations and maintenance of both assets with zero additional
> business value.
>
>
> Problem 2.
> ----------
> if you need to build a new RIA application, what is the most effective
> way to improve time-to-market and quality to reduce the total cost of
> ownership?
>
> i feel that gwt with gwt-designer is the preferred option.
>
> why did i not choose j2s?
> well gwt lets me leverage java resources, does not require me to
> retool, enables me to debug the client in pure java, has a large OSS
> community around it with commercial sponsorship, has a third party
> visual designer tool to support it, and promotes simplexity.
>
> ---
>
> what i find paradoxical is that i like your work so much, yet i
> wouldnt choose it to solve either of the two problems above. this is
> elaborated in my presentation[1] that i delivered. please review
> slides 3, 4 & 5 in the cited document.
>
> what you will notice from these slides is that on my 6 month journey,
> i concluded that j2s is the technology that fits my motivation profile
> best. i have always said, that there is so much that you are doing
> right, but because i believe your technology sits somewhere between
> Problem 1 and Problem 2, you are effectively solving a problem that i
> do not share. hence, my question to you and your community, "are you
> solving the right problem?".
>
>
> after you deliver release 1 of j2s, i hope that you get the
> opportunity to reevaluate the position of the technology.
>
>
> ---
>
> as part of my presentation to the enterprise java forum i decided to
> develop a jee application that showcased gwt. i chose to create
> gwt-Petstore[2], a gwt implementation of the classic Sun Java
> Petstore. i have often wondered what an swt implementation of Petstore
> would look like when rendered with j2s. i have tried to imagine web
> consumers using the j2s implementation :-). what i have concluded is
> that gwt needs to be spiced up with classic desk widgets, but j2s also
> needs to be spiced up with broshureware web widgets.
>
> when you start adding features like broshureware web widgets and
> simple rpc, i feel like you are stretching the motivations of rcp. to
> me you are now creating a new beast - one that i feel has an identity
> crisis!
>
> ---
>
> zhou, i want to remind you that these are just one guys crazy
> thoughts. i may well be completely wrong.
>
> btw, sorry to keep you waiting so long for the reply.
>
>
> rgds ash
> http://www.gworks.com.au
>
> 1. http://ashinw.googlepages.com/EJA_GWT_presentation.ppt
> 2. http://code.google.com/p/gwtpetstore/
> 3. http://gwtpetstore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk
>
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>   
Hi Ash,

Thanks for your response. Thanks for your view of problems. And I agree 
with those "why not j2s" reasons after thinking about them for a while. 
Exporting old existed desktop applications purely does not add new 
business values but requires maintenance. And maybe few people take such 
exporting tries. And about developing new RIAs, SWT is not a right 
choice. And RIAs and desktop applications are a lot different.

And more about exporting old assets, if old desktop applications can be 
refactored into web applications, it will surely add new values. Lots of 
open source Java desktop applications may be in this scope of 
consideration (http://eclipse.org/proposals/rap/ thinks about Eclipse 
RCP directly). But lots of those desktop application projects are Swing 
based. And Swing is another thing for Java2Script but only be considered 
after in release of 1.0.

And the next milestone of Java2Script is delayed because some key 
features (most are SWT-related) are still not implemented. And we j2s 
team will try to catch up with release schedule.

And about RPC, which maybe a new beast as you mentioned, it is an early 
scheduled key feature. Even though I once considered removing it from 
Java2Script 1.0 feature list, I implemented it as "Simple", hoping it 
won't become too complicate.

Regards

-- 

Regards,
Zhou Renjian

http://j2s.sourceforge.net/
Java2Script: Bridge of RCP to RIA
Reusing Java codes and tools into JavaScript