Re: j2s-development] gwt groups post

[Ash W. <as...@gw...>]

hi zhou,

as i type this response i cant help but feel that this discussion is a
distraction from you remaining focused on delivering your two
remaining milestones. i want to see you complete this achievement as
much as any other member in your community.

i thought that it is important to first focus on the business problem
rather the techincal problem. hence, i would like to return to the
statement that i ended the last message with: "is the right problem
was being solved?"

the reason why i keep returning here is because i also keep arriving
at the same answers to the following problems:

Problem 1.
----------
if you had a desktop java application (or you are an enterprise with a
significant investment in java desktop apps), what is the most
effective way of making that application available on a browser and
reduce the total cost of ownership?

if feel that if xml11 was more mature, then that would be my preferred option.

why did i not choose j2s?
well xml11 is more about taking an existing asset (unchanged), and
remoting its display like X11. if i represented the business, i would
not want IT to take an existing asset, create a derivative asset,
fully test the new derivative work and now pay for the ongoing
operations and maintenance of both assets with zero additional
business value.


Problem 2.
----------
if you need to build a new RIA application, what is the most effective
way to improve time-to-market and quality to reduce the total cost of
ownership?

i feel that gwt with gwt-designer is the preferred option.

why did i not choose j2s?
well gwt lets me leverage java resources, does not require me to
retool, enables me to debug the client in pure java, has a large OSS
community around it with commercial sponsorship, has a third party
visual designer tool to support it, and promotes simplexity.

---

what i find paradoxical is that i like your work so much, yet i
wouldnt choose it to solve either of the two problems above. this is
elaborated in my presentation[1] that i delivered. please review
slides 3, 4 & 5 in the cited document.

what you will notice from these slides is that on my 6 month journey,
i concluded that j2s is the technology that fits my motivation profile
best. i have always said, that there is so much that you are doing
right, but because i believe your technology sits somewhere between
Problem 1 and Problem 2, you are effectively solving a problem that i
do not share. hence, my question to you and your community, "are you
solving the right problem?".


after you deliver release 1 of j2s, i hope that you get the
opportunity to reevaluate the position of the technology.


---

as part of my presentation to the enterprise java forum i decided to
develop a jee application that showcased gwt. i chose to create
gwt-Petstore[2], a gwt implementation of the classic Sun Java
Petstore. i have often wondered what an swt implementation of Petstore
would look like when rendered with j2s. i have tried to imagine web
consumers using the j2s implementation :-). what i have concluded is
that gwt needs to be spiced up with classic desk widgets, but j2s also
needs to be spiced up with broshureware web widgets.

when you start adding features like broshureware web widgets and
simple rpc, i feel like you are stretching the motivations of rcp. to
me you are now creating a new beast - one that i feel has an identity
crisis!

---

zhou, i want to remind you that these are just one guys crazy
thoughts. i may well be completely wrong.

btw, sorry to keep you waiting so long for the reply.


rgds ash
http://www.gworks.com.au

1. http://ashinw.googlepages.com/EJA_GWT_presentation.ppt
2. http://code.google.com/p/gwtpetstore/
3. http://gwtpetstore.googlecode.com/svn/trunk