Hi !
I was trying to explain (again) to some users what is the right workflow for work orders creation for changes (the same apply to user requests and incidents) and ask myself "Is there is a new/better way in v3?".
Unfortunately the process is still the same and not really user friendly :-(
For the background, the actual work flow is as follow:
Create a ticket (User request, incident, change (normal, emergency, ...))
Save the ticket to let it have its reference ID set
Enter in modification mode on the ticket and go on the "Work Orders" tab and then click the create link
In the new tab opened, fill the form to create your work order
Click the save button
Close the tab and go back to the ticket and create new work order or exit modification mode (save or cancel)
Alternatively, you can create a new work order from scratch if you have the ticket reference available, but you need a lot of clicks the first time to do the same from the ticket view :-(
The main concerns here are:
When you have to create a bunch of work orders (ie: describe all steps of your change for all agents involved) you can quickly lose your mind as the list in the ticket is not refreshed automatically (we have a massive usage of work orders on our changes and we easily go up to 20/30 items or more !)
While creating a new work order, you prevent any other users to interact with the ticket (for big changes multiple agents may create bunch of work orders for their perimeters at the same time, one can manage CI list while others create work orders, etc...)
The new opened tab does not close itself after you saved it:
Many users use the link to the ticket shown on the saved work order screen to go back to the ticket without closing it
If you have enabled concurrency locking, the user locks himself on his own ticket and don't understand why, close the wrong tab and get angry because of the remaining lock (currently set to 120 seconds)
The new v3 add a really nice feature allowing public/private logs entries addition without entering edit mode. That is a great time saving feature!
For work orders you can, for example, hide the tab in edit mode and convert the current creation link to a button that open a modal dialog directly on top of the ticket view without the need for an extra-click and involving the locking mechanism.
The work order's creation form would use an Ajax call on save to update the ticket's list with the new item and you can create a new work order right after that Another option is to add on the work order's form a new button : Save and create another. This way, if you have a lot of work orders to create, you can do this even more quickly!
I took the work orders example as I frequently got poor returns about this workflow, but the same may apply to some other linked classes. Of course there is a limit as those classes need to not rely on the target object's stimulus or triggers and/or have their own.
What do you think of this ?
Feel free to comment ;-)
Best Regards,
Nicolas.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
We planned to update the object relations ergonomics in 3.0.0, but postponed this as there was too much work on the GUI update itself.
One thing made its way to the 3.0.0 though : ability to change object linked in n-n relations (drop down menu).
All of the remaining work is planned for the 3.1.0 version.
I'm not sure there was already some communications on this, so I let product team members answers on specifics O:)
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hello Nicolas,
Yes we are aware that creating a bunch of sub-objects under another object is rather cumbersome.
Especially if you do it while moving the Ticket in edit mode. By the may this isn't totally required, it is possible to allow creation of sub-objects without editing the parent object, and this has been the case since 2.4.0 version already, there is a configuration parameter for this: allow_menu_on_linkset
The attached image is from a 3.0.0 and you see the + above the list to create a new Task for the current Product Version (it could be a Ticket), while I am in read mode on the parent object.
The configuration applies on all AttributeLinkedSet unless they have "read_only" as edit mode tag.
For the capability to create an object in a pop-up and just after, be again in a creation form, it's part of the ideas planned for 3.1.0. which will concentrate on improving the user experience while handling relationships.
Another strategy, which can already be used for handling big number of WorkOrders is to use a templating, so an automated creation of multiple WorkOrders based on a Service Subcategory, or any specific Typology or ExternalKey to an object having the template, the template can be a many to many relationship to true WorkOrders or a model of them. Then a method at some stage of the Ticket lifecycle, uses the model to create the true WorkOrders. We have for our customers such extension called "Catalog of Procedure", which is based on Service Subcategory.
I know that the release date is for the end of the year, that's why I wrote 3.x in the title ;-)
For the allow_menu_on_linkset option, I may have overlooked the documentation even if it's the 4th row of the list :-(
I'll give it a try right now !
The "Catalog of Procedure" is not listed in the customer portal nor iTopHub :-(
I already looked at a solution to provide some "templating/stencils" as many users ask me if it is possible to have a standard list of work orders automatically added when a new change is created, better if it is possible to have preformatted work orders (I also can create child classes for this) but I didn't found anything about this use case...
If you have more details on that, it may get all our attention!
I'll ask my partner Teamwork to contact you for details too ;-)
Best Regards,
Nicolas.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hi !
I was trying to explain (again) to some users what is the right workflow for work orders creation for changes (the same apply to user requests and incidents) and ask myself "Is there is a new/better way in v3?".
Unfortunately the process is still the same and not really user friendly :-(
For the background, the actual work flow is as follow:
Alternatively, you can create a new work order from scratch if you have the ticket reference available, but you need a lot of clicks the first time to do the same from the ticket view :-(
The main concerns here are:
The new v3 add a really nice feature allowing public/private logs entries addition without entering edit mode. That is a great time saving feature!
For work orders you can, for example, hide the tab in edit mode and convert the current creation link to a button that open a modal dialog directly on top of the ticket view without the need for an extra-click and involving the locking mechanism.
The work order's creation form would use an Ajax call on save to update the ticket's list with the new item and you can create a new work order right after that
Another option is to add on the work order's form a new button : Save and create another. This way, if you have a lot of work orders to create, you can do this even more quickly!
I took the work orders example as I frequently got poor returns about this workflow, but the same may apply to some other linked classes. Of course there is a limit as those classes need to not rely on the target object's stimulus or triggers and/or have their own.
What do you think of this ?
Feel free to comment ;-)
Best Regards,
Nicolas.
Oh btw,
If you want to see how much task a change can get, just look at the screenshot :p
Best Regards,
Nicolas.
Last edit: Nicolas GRIMLER 2021-11-22
Yeah, I totally agree. I requested Combodo to handle this since 2016, but still not in the product. They still state its planned for a future release.
The v3 may be the good "future release" for this ;-)
We are on the very last efforts for 3.0.0, it should be out in just a few weeks. So we won't add new features on this version.
Hello,
Thanks for the detailed feedback !
We planned to update the object relations ergonomics in 3.0.0, but postponed this as there was too much work on the GUI update itself.
One thing made its way to the 3.0.0 though : ability to change object linked in n-n relations (drop down menu).
All of the remaining work is planned for the 3.1.0 version.
I'm not sure there was already some communications on this, so I let product team members answers on specifics O:)
Hello Nicolas,
Yes we are aware that creating a bunch of sub-objects under another object is rather cumbersome.
Especially if you do it while moving the Ticket in edit mode. By the may this isn't totally required, it is possible to allow creation of sub-objects without editing the parent object, and this has been the case since 2.4.0 version already, there is a configuration parameter for this: allow_menu_on_linkset
The attached image is from a 3.0.0 and you see the + above the list to create a new Task for the current Product Version (it could be a Ticket), while I am in read mode on the parent object.
The configuration applies on all AttributeLinkedSet unless they have "read_only" as edit mode tag.
For the capability to create an object in a pop-up and just after, be again in a creation form, it's part of the ideas planned for 3.1.0. which will concentrate on improving the user experience while handling relationships.
Another strategy, which can already be used for handling big number of WorkOrders is to use a templating, so an automated creation of multiple WorkOrders based on a Service Subcategory, or any specific Typology or ExternalKey to an object having the template, the template can be a many to many relationship to true WorkOrders or a model of them. Then a method at some stage of the Ticket lifecycle, uses the model to create the true WorkOrders. We have for our customers such extension called "Catalog of Procedure", which is based on Service Subcategory.
Last edit: Vincent @ Combodo 2021-11-22
Hi Pierre & Vincent,
Thanks for your detailed feedback !
I know that the release date is for the end of the year, that's why I wrote 3.x in the title ;-)
For the allow_menu_on_linkset option, I may have overlooked the documentation even if it's the 4th row of the list :-(
I'll give it a try right now !
The "Catalog of Procedure" is not listed in the customer portal nor iTopHub :-(
I already looked at a solution to provide some "templating/stencils" as many users ask me if it is possible to have a standard list of work orders automatically added when a new change is created, better if it is possible to have preformatted work orders (I also can create child classes for this) but I didn't found anything about this use case...
If you have more details on that, it may get all our attention!
I'll ask my partner Teamwork to contact you for details too ;-)
Best Regards,
Nicolas.