[Introspector-developers] Forwared message from CraigP:
Status: Beta
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mdupont
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From: James M. D. <mdu...@ya...> - 2003-01-14 10:58:21
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This is a message from craigp98072 posted to the forum https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=1795939 Please do send mails to the mailling list, that is reviewed by many more people. My response is at the end: By: craigp98072 ( craigp ) Introspection Toolkits, RMS, and the GPL 2002-12-15 22:10 Hello - I've been investigating reflective toolkits on and off for the last few years (such as OpenC++). Just recently I came across GCC-XML and PDT at http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/research/paracomp/pdtoolkit/. In brief, PDT uses the EDG front-end to generate IL, which is then converted to a human-readable PDB format. They have a reflective API (called DUCTAPE) which processes these PDB files. The EDG compiler is nearly ANSI-C++ compliant, and so is much better than home-grown C++ compilers like that used for OpenC++ (which doesn't handle templates very well). So one question I have: how much will this project be focused on C++? It looks like you want to support several languages, like C, Java, and Perl. Will you have full support for C++ templates? I'm looking to get involved in one of these projects. I've corresponded (briefly) with RMS about patching GCC to do similar things you are doing (creating a reflexive API/MOP), but he was strongly opposed to the idea (without providing a cogent, or really any, argument to support his position). So I'm hesitant to join a project which is opposed by RMS and/or the FSF, and simultaneously comes burdened with the GPL (PDT is completely free). Are you creating a library/toolkit? If so, are you considering using the LGPL, which is a much more open license? I'd appreciate thoughts anyone has on this matter. thanks! --craig My response : ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>Are you creating a library/toolkit? yes we are, but as part of a full application. >>In brief, PDT uses the EDG front-end to generate IL, which is then >>converted to a human-readable PDB format IL, you mean Dot.NET Microsoft IL? djbarker is working with EDG. I hope that he will respond :) >>If so, are you considering using the LGPL, which is a much more open >>license? not yet. The idea is to create an framework of similarly licensed tools that perform tasks. Just making an API is good, but we need to provide tools as well. >>In brief, PDT uses the EDG front-end to generate IL, which is then >>converted to a human-readable PDB format THe >>So one question I have: how much will this project be focused on C++? C++ is one target language we are supporting. >>It looks like you want to support several languages, like C, Java, and Perl. Will you have full support for C++ templates? yes we should support full templates. >>I'm looking to get involved in one of these projects. Please do get involved in the introspector! >>So I'm hesitant to join a project which is opposed by RMS and/or the FSF RMS does like any external APIs into free tools. That is becuase the GPL is based on copyright. Copyright cannot protect intermediate files from being reverse engineered. I have decided just to ignore thier worries. If we put all the tools onto the same license as the gcc, using GPL, then it is not our problem. >> and simultaneously comes burdened with the GPL (PDT is completely >> free). The GPL is because we are building tools into GPLed tools. What should an API into the gcc have a license that is not GPL? After I met with RMS in berlin last year, we aggreed that the best way forward is to provide functionality for the end user. The intermediate files are not the goal, but a means. The whole idea of the introspector is to in the end provide a GUI, and interface to emacs, and a whole range of developer tools. To do that, we need to have a cohesive set of tools that all have the same license. The EDG toolkit is also being looked into ===== James Michael DuPont http://introspector.sourceforge.net/ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com |