[Introspector-developers] Forwared message from CraigP:

[James M. D. <mdu...@ya...>]

This is a message from craigp98072 posted to the forum
https://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=1795939

Please do send mails to the mailling list, that is reviewed by many
more people.

My response is at the end:

By: craigp98072 ( craigp ) 
 Introspection Toolkits, RMS, and the GPL   
2002-12-15 22:10  
Hello - 

I've been investigating reflective toolkits on and off for the last few
years (such as OpenC++). Just recently I came across GCC-XML and PDT at
http://www.cs.uoregon.edu/research/paracomp/pdtoolkit/. 

In brief, PDT uses the EDG front-end to generate IL, which is then
converted to a human-readable PDB format. They have a reflective API
(called DUCTAPE) which processes these PDB files. The EDG compiler is
nearly ANSI-C++ compliant, and so is much better than home-grown C++
compilers like that used for OpenC++ (which doesn't handle templates
very well). 

So one question I have: how much will this project be focused on C++?
It looks like you want to support several languages, like C, Java, and
Perl. Will you have full support for C++ templates? 

I'm looking to get involved in one of these projects. I've corresponded
(briefly) with RMS about patching GCC to do similar things you are
doing (creating a reflexive API/MOP), but he was strongly opposed to
the idea (without providing a cogent, or really any, argument to
support his position). So I'm hesitant to join a project which is
opposed by RMS and/or the FSF, and simultaneously comes burdened with
the GPL (PDT is completely free). Are you creating a library/toolkit?
If so, are you considering using the LGPL, which is a much more open
license? 

I'd appreciate thoughts anyone has on this matter. 

thanks! 
--craig  

My response :
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>Are you creating a library/toolkit?
yes we are, but as part of a full application.

>>In brief, PDT uses the EDG front-end to generate IL, which is then
>>converted to a human-readable PDB format
IL, you mean Dot.NET Microsoft IL? 
djbarker is working with EDG. I hope that he will respond :)

>>If so, are you considering using the LGPL, which is a much more open
>>license? 
not yet. The idea is to create an framework of similarly licensed tools
that perform tasks. Just making an API is good, but we need to provide
tools as well.

>>In brief, PDT uses the EDG front-end to generate IL, which is then
>>converted to a human-readable PDB format
THe 

>>So one question I have: how much will this project be focused on C++?

C++ is one target language we are supporting.

>>It looks like you want to support several languages, like C, Java,
and Perl. Will you have full support for C++ templates? 

yes we should support full templates.

>>I'm looking to get involved in one of these projects. 
Please do get involved in the introspector!

>>So I'm hesitant to join a project which is opposed by RMS and/or the
FSF
RMS does like any external APIs into free tools. That is becuase the
GPL is based on copyright. Copyright cannot protect intermediate files
from being reverse engineered.
I have decided just to ignore thier worries. If we put all the tools
onto the same license as the gcc, using GPL, then it is not our
problem. 

>> and simultaneously comes burdened with the GPL (PDT is completely 
>> free). 
The GPL is because we are building tools into GPLed tools. What should
an API into the gcc have a license that is not GPL? 

After I met with RMS in berlin last year, we aggreed that the best way
forward is to provide functionality for the end user. The intermediate
files are not the goal, but a means. The whole idea of the introspector
is to in the end provide a GUI, and interface to emacs, and a whole
range of developer tools. To do that, we need to have a cohesive set of
tools that all have the same license. 

The EDG toolkit is also being looked into 

=====
James Michael DuPont
http://introspector.sourceforge.net/

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