Re: [Introspector-developers] Status report / Call for ideas

[James M. D. <mdu...@ya...>]

--- Mike Garnsey <mik...@ya...> wrote:
> --- James Michael DuPont <mdu...@ya...> wrote:
> <snip>
> > please respond back and tell me if you see that we
> > are going in the same direction. Also note that we 
> > are talking about a high level plan for the next two
> > years here, not something that is done overnight.
> 
> Mike, thanks for the update on Introspector.  The plan
> that you lay out looks sound ...but not for the faint
> of heart ;) 

Yes, It is bold. 
But we should be able to create it module by module. One thing that I
wanted to get way some feedback as to priority. I know that most people
are interested in the gcc interface, but for me the DIA work is the
most  important at this time.

> Anyways, I'll take a 1st cut at feedback
> and ideas....
Thanks.

> 
> > Here is my proposal for components of the 
> > introspector :
> > Data extraction, manipulation, visualization, and
> > generation.
> 
> excellent!  I'm thinking that a 5th component might be
> in order:  a "knowledge acquisition" component.  Idea
> being for the Introspector user to gain knowledge or
> insight about a particular facet.  I see visualization
> tools doing some of this, but I see the need to be
> able to easily be able to gain insight to things like:
> 
>      'what does this method do?'
>      'what is the purpose of this lib?'
>      'what does this compiler switch setting do?'

Yes, I think this will come under two areas:
   1. annotation - People add in this information.
   2. association - we look for this information in mailling lists for
example based on keys from the program.

Of course this is all predicated on the idea that we can reference a
single node of infomation. More about that later.

> wrt scripting notion, how about an external control
> mechanism for Instrospector (maybe xmlRPC) too?

Yes, at first we will support a glib/gtk like c/perl interface.
Then a bonobo/orbit/corba object interface.
and then a webservices/xmlrpc/soap external interface.

The basis for this is an object model that I have been prototyping in
perl. We read in the tree structure from the gcc and annotate it with
inheritance, remove fields factor them into base classes, define
properties and callbacks. Then from this model, we will generate the
various interfaces via meta-programming. 

I have prototyped various perl, java and other output languages.

> 
> I think that working up some use-cases for
> Introspector would be helpful at this point.
Yes, I have a small set of them worked out. The trick is to define
a model/viewer/controller hierachy.

model being the tree structures, the object meta data. The controller
being imports but also DIA/Emacs/GUIS updating. The viewer being the
layout engines and extractors, even code generators.

but yet, a use case catalog would be great. I have started that.
The one use case is Expansion :

by expansion, the user selects pick a node and expands apon it in a
certain direction,  adding in more fields, finding related nodes,
bringing in more context. 
For the exploritory part of the usage of the introspector, a user will
be doing a continuing series of expansions. 

The selection mechanisms will be database queries, clicking on things,
traversals through the structure.

>  Bredth
> and depth!  Some system level ones (bredth) would be
> great for helping to convey the 'big picture' of what
> Introspector is all about.  


> Component level (depth)
> use cases would be good to provide some specific
> glimpes of Introspector in action wrt graphs (VCG),
> diagrams (Dia), etc.  The later could be very usefull
> in communicating with and/or enlisting support from
> other opensource teams, or to get feedback on existing
> tools/techniques for certain aspects of Introspector
> functionality.

Yes, we should create a distribution of all the tools named, and
prepare even simple perl scripts to glue them togeather to begin with.
The dia tool can be used immediatly for diagrams. In fact, I have a few
that I can publish...

I aggree with you, we need to start providing more visable results of
this program. I have tons and tons of notes and diagrams, links and
bits and bobs. This will need to be translated into something digital.

mike

=====
James Michael DuPont
http://introspector.sourceforge.net/

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