indic-computing-devel Mailing List for The Indic-Computing Project (Page 24)
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From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-01-31 12:58:19
|
On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:39:58 -0800 (PST) jk...@Fr... (Joseph Koshy) wrote: > > > > From: "J. Patricia Annie JebaMalar" <pa...@la...> > > Subject: IndLinux Effort ... > > Thank you Karunakar, for forwarding this announcement. > > First question: how many teams are there sharing the name > "indlinux"? I know of two now: > > (1) indlinux at IIT-Madras and > (2) indlinux at SourceForge.Net. > There is no third. And 'indlinux' is not trademarked ;-) > Is the work that they are doing related? > No. > > http://www.tenet.res.in/Donlab/Indlinux/ > > The web page talks about a ``Newly Modified XLIB'' ... so I went to > have a look at the code. Comments follow. > The same logic as ISCII plugin is used in it. You have a mapping table ISCII -> ISFOC & vice versa. This logic & table was developed by the LTRC team at IIIT Hyd. People from IITK & Univ of Hyd were also involved in it. Their work is at http://www.rxvt-idev.freeservers.com/ All that is done at runtime is , (based on the current language setting appropriate if current char/string in ISCII search through the table (a binary search) and get the ISFOC equivalent. display using the appropriate font. > I don't mean to be harsh here; let me first say I appreciate the > fact that someone has done work in this area and has made their work > public for review. Thank you! > > However, as this implementation stands, this work is unlikely to end > up in any standard distribution. If the IIT-M folks had had access > to better X expertise, my guess is that the end-result would have > been more acceptable. > Maybe reason for NCST code being better. (Off-topic see : www.centurionlinux.com) <snip> > :Summary: > > Some of the basic premises behind the design of this code have to be > re-examined before it can effectively support indian languages and > before this code can become part of a mainstream distribution. > Could you comment on this, & whether we can do something on these lines http://www.x.org/contrib/i18n/ Some lead developers (on KDE/GNOME, even X) have given the opinion that complex text servies should be carried out at higher layers (eg toolkits). Xft & Xrender mech. address the font issues, but not the issues like , text reordering, cluster formation, glyph selection etc. which is what pango does. Some discussions have been going on regarding modifying X text support, mainly to accomodate complex texts & new font mechanisms. Team from Sun made the foll posting http://XFree86.Org/pipermail/i18n/2001-December/002727.html One font gurus opinion http://XFree86.Org/pipermail/fonts/2001-December/001210.html Freetype's plans in reference to above http://www.freetype.org/pipermail/devel/2001-December/002740.html Regards, Karunakar |
From: <jk...@Fr...> - 2002-01-31 10:39:59
|
> From: "J. Patricia Annie JebaMalar" <pa...@la...> > Subject: IndLinux Effort ... Thank you Karunakar, for forwarding this announcement. First question: how many teams are there sharing the name "indlinux"? I know of two now: (1) indlinux at IIT-Madras and (2) indlinux at SourceForge.Net. Is the work that they are doing related? > http://www.tenet.res.in/Donlab/Indlinux/ The web page talks about a ``Newly Modified XLIB'' ... so I went to have a look at the code. Comments follow. I don't mean to be harsh here; let me first say I appreciate the fact that someone has done work in this area and has made their work public for review. Thank you! However, as this implementation stands, this work is unlikely to end up in any standard distribution. If the IIT-M folks had had access to better X expertise, my guess is that the end-result would have been more acceptable. o The ``Display'' structure has a number of new fields ``indian_font'', which is presumably a font name, and many `_flag' variables set when certain keys are pressed (left arrow, backspace etc) and many others. o There seems to be some basic confusion between character encodings (eg:- ISCII) and font encodings (font specific) --- XDrawImageString() and XDrawString() have been hacked as follows: - if the glyph index being passed in is greater than 0xA0 and less than 0xFF, the routine tries to use the ``indian font'', if not it uses the ``normal font''. A number of XSetFont() calls can thus result ``behind the scenes'' when XDrawString() is invoked. Recall that the ``indian font'' is fixed per DISPLAY, meaning an application can't have different ``indian fonts'' loaded simultaneously ... - Keypresses for some of the arrow keys set the `*_flag' variables in their modified display structure. These flags can change the behaviour of XDraw{Image,}String() -- i.e. if the left/right arrow key had been pressed sometime before an XDraw{Image,}String occurred, then the behaviour of this function will be different. Changing behaviour per display because a left, right or up arrow is pressed seems strange. Input focus can move to any window between two keystrokes and XDraw{Image,}String() can be invoked for multiple windows in the application in any order. These functions are not the place to keep record of application keyboard state. - Lots of hacks and hardcoded behaviour: looking up of environment variables ("APP_TYPE") from inside these functions to determine behavioural changes like special case handling of BackSpace, Left-Arrow etc (with variants of this behaviour being hardcoded for applications like "KDE konsole", etc). o Hacks to XDrawLine(!) to modify behaviour if the line for the cursor being drawn and if so if its in the middle of a displayed ``indian language string''. Here also environment variable "APP_TYPE" plays its magic role. I see calls to XGetWindowAttributes(), XClearArea() in the code ... the flags `left_flag', `right_flag' etc determine if XClearArea() will clear areas left or right of the nominal cursor insertion point! XDrawLine is supposed to draw a LINE, not do all this stuff. o Another change to XNextEvent(), interacting with the hacks done in in XDrawLine(). o Changes to XkbLookupKey* to deal with the various {up,down,left,right}_flag variables introduced. o Modularity of the library code broken (functions now "know" about each others' behaviours) ; namespace pollution (new function names in the library that do not confirm to the X library conventions and that can collide with existing application names), unneeded includes of headers files etc. Some new files. Whats wrong? 1. X applications are event-driven in nature, yet this code assumes that certain functions (XDraw{Image,}String()) WILL get called immediately after some keyboard event happens and that these calls to XDraw{Image,}String() are ``related'' to the keypress. This is broken. 2. The glyph indices passed to XDrawString() and XDrawImageString() are just that -- glyph indices specific to one font. They are not necessarily 'character codes'. You can have `8 bit Latin fonts' with standard characters 'a'--'z' mapped into any of the glyph indices 0..255. The APPLICATION is responsible for sending the proper glyph indices to the X server. These changes ASSUME that glyph indices 0..159 correspond to one character encoding and 160..255 correspond to another. This is wrong. 3. Lots of intrusive changes to the standard X library. The changes are trying to do things in X library which just do not belong there (like keeping track of [application specific] keystrokes and modifying the behaviour of other library calls). 4. Hardcoded hacks in the X library that work-around problems that come about because of (1),(2) and (3) above. :Summary: Some of the basic premises behind the design of this code have to be re-examined before it can effectively support indian languages and before this code can become part of a mainstream distribution. Regards, Koshy <jk...@fr...> |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-31 06:42:25
|
"Harsha P R" <har...@ya...> wrote:- > If you have browser that can render opentype fonts, > you dont need to convert UNICODE-> FontCode. Thats IE > on win2k and above. if you have control over the > system, this should answer ur question (??) What would happen on Mozilla on Windoze / *nix? "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...> wrote:- > This probably is not on the level of the other work here, and def too > windoze oriented, but I have some nasty little hacks to be able to get > ISCII code into and out of databases (specifically Access and SQL > Server) and converted to Java's internal unicode format when using the > Merant JDBC drivers included with Jrun. This allows one to store, > retrieve and search ISCII data in text and varchar fields. Okay time to forgive me Java ignorance again. Questions 1. Is JRUN free on all platforms 2. How do we go about making your work support *nix > Theyre just nastly little hacks, but less than trivial due to the way > the JDBC driver interprets the high order bit of ISCII chars. Also > they may provide some insight in the problems needed to be overcome to write > DB Apis for ISCII text, and interfacing Unicode with ASCII and ISCII. Great...How can we make this work for the ZODB? > Now i agree there is a strong argument that this should be done server > side b/c of portability, but it is not always true that Unicode > transfers should take 2x as long. Oops...if Unicode is not twice as heavy - doesn't that make a strong argument for a client side implementation for web applications. Maybe a Java applet [Instead of an OCX component as Mithi.com has done] that runs within a browser. I am aware of the disadvantages 1. heavy download 2> sluggishness of Java in certain environments 3> MSIE does not support JVM by default. But we will be able to address many browsers on most platforms. > and obv there is the issue of how to distinguish between diff scripts, > and related issues in unicode round trips, but its something to think Please give us some more information on this? Not sure what you mean. "J. Patricia Annie JebaMalar" <pa...@la...> wrote > We have recently released an X-Interface, where we have modified the > X-library to support Indian Languages. Since we have modified in the library > level, the applications like KDE, K-Office, Netscape, etc. and even your own > application, that runs on top of it inherits this property. The work of the tenet group sound amazing. They seems to have completely addressed the problem on the Linux platform. We will download the X-interface and try it on Open Office.org. The group will be interested to know that the Zope community is writing an interface between Zope and Open Office.org. This combined with the Tenet solution will address Indic content management for Linux. I will just repeat my homework before I pass the mic. - evaluating TENET's X-Interface for Open Office - evaluating and studying GPL WYSIWYG HTML Editors such as http://sourceforge.net/projects/htmltea/ and http://www.hexidec.com/ekit.html - Anyone wanna add to my list Thanks, Sunil P.S. The Indian Zope and Python User group izpug on groups.yahoo.com has really picked up. We have 46 members and 76 posts for January. Members on this group interested in Indianizing Zope are invited to join. -- Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org |
From: Arun S. <ar...@sh...> - 2002-01-31 05:44:17
|
On Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 12:05:35AM +0530, Tapan S. Parikh wrote: > Now i agree there is a strong argument that this should be done server > side b/c of portability, but it is not always true that Unicode > transfers should take 2x as long. This is only currently true b/c the > current standard Unicode one-byte encoding (UTF-8) is biased towards > latin scripts, in that latin chars take up one byte and all others 2-3. > One could very easily imagine and implement an encoding that would be > biased towards indian scripts, in that iscii chars would take up only > one byte and all others 2 or 3. Now Im not saying we should do this, > and obv there is the issue of how to distinguish between diff scripts, > and related issues in unicode round trips, but its something to think > about... If you use gzip'ed unicode HTML files, I'm sure whatever advantage latin1 scripts have will be neutralized. I think there are more important issues (sorting order, open type font support) that we need to worry about. -Arun |
From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-01-30 14:16:07
|
This work is based on ISCII + ISFOC , most based on what has been done by IITK, IIITH, Univ of Hyd. Begin forwarded message: Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:36:54 +0530 (IST) From: "J. Patricia Annie JebaMalar" <pa...@la...> Subject: IndLinux Effort ... Dear Sir/Madam, The native language effort of IndLinux Team, TeNeT Group at the Indian Institute of Technology, Madras focusses on providing both the console and X-Windows based local language interface for the Linux operating system. In either case, the primary goal is to enable applications to inherit the interface with no or minimal modification. Further, an application developed in the console-based environment must work without requiring any modification in the X environment. In addition, once support has been developed for a particular language, the effort to enable any other Indian language should require only changes to the configuration. We have recently released an X-Interface, where we have modified the X-library to support Indian Languages. Since we have modified in the library level, the applications like KDE, K-Office, Netscape, etc. and even your own application, that runs on top of it inherits this property. For further information about our work please visit our webpage at http://www.tenet.res.in/Donlab/Indlinux/ Please send your queries, feedback and bugs to ind...@la... With regards, Indlinux Team. |
From: <jk...@Fr...> - 2002-01-30 05:40:27
|
sunil> -- I agree. Because UNICODE would double the traffic between the server sunil> and the client. The typical web page has a few KB of text and markup along with references to hundreds of KB of embedded images. Using UTF-8 or other similar encoding for the textual content is unlikely to cause the total traffic per page to increase by much. tp> Now i agree there is a strong argument that this should be done server tp> side b/c of portability, but it is not always true that Unicode tp> transfers should take 2x as long. True. Regards, Koshy <jk...@fr...> |
From: Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...> - 2002-01-29 18:35:56
|
First, let me apologize for my previous post for two reasons 1) the ibook im on seems to have encoded nl's funky in my attachment, and 2) i forgot to delete the rest of the mail when i replied. at least i can promise (2) wont happen again... Next, I wanted to comment on this exchange... <quote> -- You can also have FontCode->UNICODE tranlation or vice-versa. but that better be at the backend and not at the client side. -- I agree. Because UNICODE would double the traffic between the server and the client. </quote> Now i agree there is a strong argument that this should be done server side b/c of portability, but it is not always true that Unicode transfers should take 2x as long. This is only currently true b/c the current standard Unicode one-byte encoding (UTF-8) is biased towards latin scripts, in that latin chars take up one byte and all others 2-3. One could very easily imagine and implement an encoding that would be biased towards indian scripts, in that iscii chars would take up only one byte and all others 2 or 3. Now Im not saying we should do this, and obv there is the issue of how to distinguish between diff scripts, and related issues in unicode round trips, but its something to think about... Regards, Tapan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com |
From: Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...> - 2002-01-29 18:17:12
|
This probably is not on the level of the other work here, and def too windoze oriented, but I have some nasty little hacks to be able to get ISCII code into and out of databases (specifically Access and SQL Server) and converted to Java's internal unicode format when using the Merant JDBC drivers included with Jrun. This allows one to store, retrieve and search ISCII data in text and varchar fields. Theyre just nastly little hacks, but less than trivial due to the way the JDBC driver interprets the high order bit of ISCII chars. Also they may provide some insight in the problems needed to be overcome to write DB Apis for ISCII text, and interfacing Unicode with ASCII and ISCII. I am attaching the relevant hacks in the attached class... Warning: not for the weak of heart... :) -- Tapan |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-29 11:08:40
|
Questions and replies to Koshy, Harsha and Karunakar On Koshy's <ko...@fr...> mail:- I agree with your division of the project into (1) a widget or framework that allows WYSIWYG creation of HTML pages including tables. (2) an input method that can handle indian languages Thanks for http://www.bris.ac.uk/ISC/cms/ttw.html. Most the options seem to be Windoze only or MSIE only. Working by elimination I have the following projects to evaluate. I plan to evaluate by checking the Widget on MSIE and Mozilla [on Windoze and RH Linux]. After that I will post a short report to the mailing list. My options are... 1. http://www.hexidec.com/ekit.php. 2. http://sourceforge.net/projects/htmltea/. Oops SP is down for the moment. I will check later. All the five remotely hosted TTW WYSIWYG Editor Widgets [SuperUpdate, OmniEdit, WebsiteSimplicity, OmniUpdate, HookFryServe] seem to be Commercial and not GPL. So I guess we drop them for this project. Unless someone has a better idea on how we can use this. B.T.W http://www.utoronto.ca/webdocs/HTMLdocs/UNIXTOOLS/unix_editors.htm is giving me a 404. Please recheck the URL and send. The Universal Canvas http://www.ektron.com/ is not worth it because according to http://www.byte.com/documents/s=705/BYT20010608S0001/index3.htm 'The product, which wraps several layers of integration code around the core edit control, works with MSIE and (by way of a plugin) with Netscape, though for Windows only in both cases.' ...and... 'Ektron sells the editor bound to one or more URLs. For each URL, you can buy it two ways: $30/user (in $299 10-packs), and $6000/enterprise. ' On Harsha's <har...@ya...> mail:- > Yes it is for opensource (will be up on IISc site > soon). Since java is cross platform, this will work > on linux/windows with java installed. Can you send us the source files. Alternatively can you upload the source onto briefcase.yahoo.com. > If the target audience access a specific system to > which all required software can be suppiled or if > you plan to distribute CDs, to each user, then this > is feasible. We will have control over the clients. We can install JRE on the clients if required. > If you wish to have a non Java Input Method > Framework based Indic text component in an applet This is not required as we have complete control of the clients for local langauge computing. Therefore a large download would ok. > You can also have FontCode->UNICODE tranlation or > vice-versa. but that better be at the backend and > not at the client side. I agree. Because UNICODE would double the traffic between the server and the client. > And finally, why would any > one want to have UNICODE->FontCode tranlation!!?? Forgive my ignorance [comes from being a newbie in Indic-Computing]. If I collect UNICODE data from my RDBMS and then want to display it on a web page - don't I have to convert UNICODE-> FontCode. Please educate me. On Karunakar's <kar...@fr...>:- > Their work is mainly in foll. > ISCII plugin - view ISCII based web pages, > using locally installed fonts , supports many popular fonts , > including CDAC ISFOC & bharatbhasha's shusha fonts. Does this completely address 'display' of local language content for Mozilla/MSIE on Window and *nix. > Anusaaraka - > Machine transalation for indian languages. Right now only indlang to > indlang supported, English to hindi in development. English - > indian lang dictionaries in ISCII format. Is this translation or transliteration? Sorry to ask a dumb question. What is time frame on this project. > Well very re-usable. Already I am converting the dictionaries to > Unicode & also trying to do unicode (utf8) version > of plugin. Can you give us more details of what you are are doing. Also can to tell us why you are doing this? Are you converting the dictionaries for 'Anusaaraka'? We are newbie Java and Indic-computing people. Where to we start with the work done by IIT. You must know by now what our end goal is. Thanks, Sunil Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org |
From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-01-29 09:55:12
|
On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:46:14 -0800 (PST) jk...@Fr... (Joseph Koshy) wrote: > > > (1) a widget or framework that allows WYSIWYG creation of HTML > pages including tables. > (2) an input method that can handle indian languages > > As for (1) a brief web search turned up a number of existing > projects[http://www.bris.ac.uk/ISC/cms/ttw.html] has a short survey > listed, including editors that work with Zope and editors > implemented in Javascript (!). > [http://www.utoronto.ca/webdocs/HTMLdocs/UNIXTOOLS/unix_editors.htm > l] is another link to browse. > > Topic (2) would be of interest to the folks on this list, so lets > discuss that here. I've been unable to reach the IIIT-H website for > more than a week now (it seems off the 'Net). Can someone > knowledgeable about the technical details of their work help with > the following (basic) questions that I have? > Their work is mainly in foll. ISCII plugin - view ISCII based web pages, using locally installed fonts , supports many popular fonts , including CDAC ISFOC & bharatbhasha's shusha fonts. Anusaaraka - Machine transalation for indian languages. Right now only indlang to indlang supported, English to hindi in development. English - indian lang dictionaries in ISCII format. Font convertors - convertors to & from various font encodings . They do lot more, but only above are relevant to current context. Also All above available under GPL license. > * what standards do they base their work on (ISCII/UNICODE/??) ISCII > * is their work system specific? If so, what operating environments Available for both windoz and linux (mean *nix ) > do they assume (e.g:- do they use specific fonts, OS-specific APIs > etc) Use the CDAC ISFOC fonts, no OS specific APIs, > * any documentation / published papers on their work? Self documented. Much info is on the iiit.net site & some references on tdil.mit.gov.in > * are their sources available from anywhere else? Dont know. Should ask permission to mirror (maybe here itself). I Have most of the stuff above on my m/c should be around 20-30MB. > * how well are their design decisions & code documented? > That you judge by reading their code > Basically, I want to guage the RE-USEABILITY of their effort. > Well very re-usable. Already I am converting the dictionaries to Unicode & also trying to do unicode (utf8) version of plugin. Regards, Karunakar |
From: Harsha P R <har...@ya...> - 2002-01-29 09:42:14
|
Hi Sunil, --- sunil <su...@in...> wrote: > Dear Sastry, Harsha and Nanitha, > > Do tell us if the code of Inscript input method, for > Java 1.4 using opentype fonts is open > source and cross platform. Yes it is for opensource (will be up on IISc site soon). Since java is cross platform, this will work on linux/windows with java installed. > For ex. Does it work in > Mozilla for Linux and Windows. Yes. Though it does not work as a native mozilla input method, you can have a Swing applet running in Mozilla/IE to use the java input methods. That way, it is coss platform. BUt to have the java input methods, the end user needs to have JRE installed on his system which is a heavy weight download if it isnt there. and also the opentype fonts for languages other than devanagari. (Or wait for future releases of Java) If the target audience access a specific system to which all required software can be suppiled or if you plan to distribute CDs, to each user, then this is feasible. If you wish to have a non Java Input Method Framework based Indic text component in an applet (with foot print of < 150K) even thats possible. BUt that will be like the usual keyboard translators with TTFs. With additional code, it is possible to take care of the the arrow keys' navigation, delete and backspace. But that might make it a 200K to 250K component. This works with browsers which have builtin JVM. (IE6 has no JVM) You can also have FontCode->UNICODE tranlation or vice-versa. but that better be at the backend and not at the client side. And finally, why would any one want to have UNICODE->FontCode tranlation!!?? > Please > give us more details about the project. > > Thanks, > > Sunil > -- Hope this helps. Regards, Harsha > > Sunil Abraham > Team Leader - MAHITI > Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector > India Cares, Vijay Kiran > 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur > Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India > Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, > 5350035 > E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Guntupalli Karunakar > <kar...@fr...> > To: su...@in..., har...@ya..., > rs...@mg... > Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:18:20 +0530 > Subject: Re: [Indic-computing-devel] W.r.t to > ContentManager.de and MailJol.com > > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:17:51 +0530 > > "sunil" <su...@in...> wrote: > > > > > I have already reverted w.r.t to > contentmanager.de. Do write if you > > need any other > > > clarifications. The deal is that my colleague > Sreekanth has given a 7 > > day Python and Zope > > > training to the students of Vidhya Prathistan > Institute of > > Information Technology, > > > Baramathi, Maharastra. This is an educational > institution promoted by > > Sharad Pawar. In > > > exchange for the training the principal Dr. Amol > Goje has agreed to > > assign co-ordinated > > > project work to the students of the college so > that they can > > contribute to the 'open source' > > > movement. My team in Bangalore - MAHITI.ORG is > inexperienced in Java. > > We need > > > someone to help us with the roadmap of the Java > Applet [multilingual > > - multiplatform > > > WYSIWYG HTML editor - XML support]. Once this > roadmap is prepared. > > MAHITI will > > > co-ordinate the development along with the > students of VIIT. Can > > anyone please help > > > with this ....we are getting desperate. > > > > > > W.r.t to MailJol I am most interested in > > > > 4 Methods on Input [Onscreen Keyboard, > Phonetic, > > > > UNICODE to FontCode translator > > > > FontCode to UNICODE translator > > > > There is an ISCII plugin (displays ISCII text in > webpage using fonts > > installed locally, no dynamic font stuff ) > > ISCII plugin is available from > > > > http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/iscii/index.htm > > > > > > Some font convertors also (from ISCII <-> font > encoding) > > > > http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/FC-1.0/fc.html > > > > All these are written in C, but should be very > easy to rewrite them in > > Java. > > The above are released under GPL. > > > > There are some English-indianlang dictionaries > also there in ISCII > > format . I am working on converting them to > Unicode & put them in a SQL > > database. This would help in translation tools we > want to create. > > > > > Again we have no Java competence to replicate > this -- I think the > > MailJol uses > > > COM/ActiveX and therefore does not work on Linux > > > > TDIL Team at IISc has developed Inscript input > method, for Java 1.4 > > using opentype fonts. > > Contact: > > Sastry Ramachandrula <rs...@mg...>, > > Harsha <har...@ya...> > > Anita <na...@mg...>, > > > > Regards, > > Karunakar > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Indic-computing-devel mailing list > > Ind...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-devel > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com |
From: <jk...@Fr...> - 2002-01-29 07:47:21
|
sunil> Comfortable WYSIWYG editing edit-on Pro enables word-processor sunil> like WYSIWYG ... Your requirements seem to specify two distinct pieces of functionality: (1) a widget or framework that allows WYSIWYG creation of HTML pages including tables. (2) an input method that can handle indian languages As for (1) a brief web search turned up a number of existing projects [http://www.bris.ac.uk/ISC/cms/ttw.html] has a short survey listed, including editors that work with Zope and editors implemented in Javascript (!). [http://www.utoronto.ca/webdocs/HTMLdocs/UNIXTOOLS/unix_editors.html] is another link to browse. Topic (2) would be of interest to the folks on this list, so lets discuss that here. I've been unable to reach the IIIT-H website for more than a week now (it seems off the 'Net). Can someone knowledgeable about the technical details of their work help with the following (basic) questions that I have? * what standards do they base their work on (ISCII/UNICODE/??) * is their work system specific? If so, what operating environments do they assume (e.g:- do they use specific fonts, OS-specific APIs etc) * any documentation / published papers on their work? * are their sources available from anywhere else? * how well are their design decisions & code documented? Basically, I want to guage the RE-USEABILITY of their effort. I have the same questions about the IISc teams work too (CC'ed in this message). Thanks, Koshy <jk...@fr...> |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-29 06:14:22
|
Dear Sastry, Harsha and Nanitha, Do tell us if the code of Inscript input method, for Java 1.4 using opentype fonts is open source and cross platform. For ex. Does it work in Mozilla for Linux and Windows. Please give us more details about the project. Thanks, Sunil -- Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org -----Original Message----- From: Guntupalli Karunakar <kar...@fr...> To: su...@in..., har...@ya..., rs...@mg... Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:18:20 +0530 Subject: Re: [Indic-computing-devel] W.r.t to ContentManager.de and MailJol.com > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:17:51 +0530 > "sunil" <su...@in...> wrote: > > > I have already reverted w.r.t to contentmanager.de. Do write if you > need any other > > clarifications. The deal is that my colleague Sreekanth has given a 7 > day Python and Zope > > training to the students of Vidhya Prathistan Institute of > Information Technology, > > Baramathi, Maharastra. This is an educational institution promoted by > Sharad Pawar. In > > exchange for the training the principal Dr. Amol Goje has agreed to > assign co-ordinated > > project work to the students of the college so that they can > contribute to the 'open source' > > movement. My team in Bangalore - MAHITI.ORG is inexperienced in Java. > We need > > someone to help us with the roadmap of the Java Applet [multilingual > - multiplatform > > WYSIWYG HTML editor - XML support]. Once this roadmap is prepared. > MAHITI will > > co-ordinate the development along with the students of VIIT. Can > anyone please help > > with this ....we are getting desperate. > > > > W.r.t to MailJol I am most interested in > > > 4 Methods on Input [Onscreen Keyboard, Phonetic, > > > UNICODE to FontCode translator > > > FontCode to UNICODE translator > > There is an ISCII plugin (displays ISCII text in webpage using fonts > installed locally, no dynamic font stuff ) > ISCII plugin is available from > > http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/iscii/index.htm > > > Some font convertors also (from ISCII <-> font encoding) > > http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/FC-1.0/fc.html > > All these are written in C, but should be very easy to rewrite them in > Java. > The above are released under GPL. > > There are some English-indianlang dictionaries also there in ISCII > format . I am working on converting them to Unicode & put them in a SQL > database. This would help in translation tools we want to create. > > > Again we have no Java competence to replicate this -- I think the > MailJol uses > > COM/ActiveX and therefore does not work on Linux > > TDIL Team at IISc has developed Inscript input method, for Java 1.4 > using opentype fonts. > Contact: > Sastry Ramachandrula <rs...@mg...>, > Harsha <har...@ya...> > Anita <na...@mg...>, > > Regards, > Karunakar > > _______________________________________________ > Indic-computing-devel mailing list > Ind...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-devel > |
From: <jk...@Fr...> - 2002-01-25 11:00:19
|
Folks, FYI: A description of the extra functionality supported by the CVS infrastructure (the version control system) used by the Indic-computing project can be found at: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=9094&group_id=38057 Regards, Koshy <jk...@fr...> |
From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-01-24 06:47:54
|
On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:36:05 +0530 "sunil" <su...@in...> wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: VinodKumar Srirama <vin...@ya...> > > I would be exploring the support available through Java Input Method > > framework for implementing support for Indic-languages. > > Please check mailjol.com and contentmanager.de. > I donno to what extent mailjol.com uses java, because it doesnot work on *nix & in windoz first thing one needs to do is download their libraries (but its all automated) right now only, sites like epatra.com do use java but it doesnt work properly on linux. And ALL send their mail in the font encoding they use . And now a new one www.e-tapaal.com has started , It uses java, but doesnt work on linux. TDIL Team at IISc has developed Inscript input method, for Java 1.4 using opentype fonts. Contact: Sastry Ramachandrula <rs...@mg...>, Harsha <har...@ya...> Anita <na...@mg...>, |
From: Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...> - 2002-01-24 06:43:23
|
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:17:51 +0530 "sunil" <su...@in...> wrote: > I have already reverted w.r.t to contentmanager.de. Do write if you need any other > clarifications. The deal is that my colleague Sreekanth has given a 7 day Python and Zope > training to the students of Vidhya Prathistan Institute of Information Technology, > Baramathi, Maharastra. This is an educational institution promoted by Sharad Pawar. In > exchange for the training the principal Dr. Amol Goje has agreed to assign co-ordinated > project work to the students of the college so that they can contribute to the 'open source' > movement. My team in Bangalore - MAHITI.ORG is inexperienced in Java. We need > someone to help us with the roadmap of the Java Applet [multilingual - multiplatform > WYSIWYG HTML editor - XML support]. Once this roadmap is prepared. MAHITI will > co-ordinate the development along with the students of VIIT. Can anyone please help > with this ....we are getting desperate. > > W.r.t to MailJol I am most interested in > > 4 Methods on Input [Onscreen Keyboard, Phonetic, > > UNICODE to FontCode translator > > FontCode to UNICODE translator There is an ISCII plugin (displays ISCII text in webpage using fonts installed locally, no dynamic font stuff ) ISCII plugin is available from http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/iscii/index.htm Some font convertors also (from ISCII <-> font encoding) http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/FC-1.0/fc.html All these are written in C, but should be very easy to rewrite them in Java. The above are released under GPL. There are some English-indianlang dictionaries also there in ISCII format . I am working on converting them to Unicode & put them in a SQL database. This would help in translation tools we want to create. > Again we have no Java competence to replicate this -- I think the MailJol uses > COM/ActiveX and therefore does not work on Linux TDIL Team at IISc has developed Inscript input method, for Java 1.4 using opentype fonts. Contact: Sastry Ramachandrula <rs...@mg...>, Harsha <har...@ya...> Anita <na...@mg...>, Regards, Karunakar |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-24 05:03:17
|
> 4 Methods on Input [Onscreen Keyboard, Phonetic, Remmington and ISCII/LEAP] Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org _______________________________________________ Indic-computing-devel mailing list Ind...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-devel |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-24 04:49:09
|
-----Original Message----- From: jk...@Fr... (Joseph Koshy) > Which aspects of these sites would you like people to examine more > closely? I have already reverted w.r.t to contentmanager.de. Do write if you need any other clarifications. The deal is that my colleague Sreekanth has given a 7 day Python and Zope training to the students of Vidhya Prathistan Institute of Information Technology, Baramathi, Maharastra. This is an educational institution promoted by Sharad Pawar. In exchange for the training the principal Dr. Amol Goje has agreed to assign co-ordinated project work to the students of the college so that they can contribute to the 'open source' movement. My team in Bangalore - MAHITI.ORG is inexperienced in Java. We need someone to help us with the roadmap of the Java Applet [multilingual - multiplatform WYSIWYG HTML editor - XML support]. Once this roadmap is prepared. MAHITI will co-ordinate the development along with the students of VIIT. Can anyone please help with this ....we are getting desperate. W.r.t to MailJol I am most interested in > 4 Methods on Input [Onscreen Keyboard, Phonetic, > UNICODE to FontCode translator > FontCode to UNICODE translator Again we have no Java competence to replicate this -- I think the MailJol uses COM/ActiveX and therefore does not work on Linux Sunil Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-23 13:07:32
|
Content Manager.de has created a multilingual WYSIWYG HTML editor. This is a replacement for the <IFRAME> object in the MSIE world. Critical for applications such as 'content management' and 'document flow messaging' You can see a DEMO here http://www.realobjects.de/eopro13/selectproperties.php3 Here are the features that I am most interested in....an extract from http://www.realobjects.de/english/editonpro_product_e.htm ...extract starts... Comfortable WYSIWYG editing edit-on Pro enables word-processor like WYSIWYG online editing through the most common OS/Browser combinations. The editor features a great variety of function including: cut/paste/insert, HTML <H1> to <H6>, bullet/ordered/alphabet lists, HTML export/import, insert/overwrite mode, hyperlinks/images, insert URL/HTML strings, spell check, etc. In addition, the editor provides an enhanced copy/paste functionality for plain text and HTML through a toolbar button. Tooltips ease the use of editor, especially when many toolbar icons are activated. HTML <TABLE> support edit-on Pro provides flexible editing capabilities for HTML tables, e.g. part lists, price lists etc. Not only can the user insert tables on the fly, but also dynamically modify existing table structures by adding, deleting or formatting table cells, rows or columns; including ROWSPAN/COLSPAN and VALIGN. Nested tables and complex table structures are not yet supported. Please try our online demos for further information on this. Please note, edit-on Pro is not designed as a replacement for a WYSIWYG HTML page editor like FrontPage or Dreamweaver. The idea of the table feature is to provide simple table editing capabilities with WYSIWYG comfort in Websites and Web applications, across platforms, without installation of client-side software. Enhanced XHTML support/compliance This means following. The editor will provide a XML well-formed entity, see also http://www.w3.org for exact definitions. Informally, what this means is that all tags are balanced, and that all attributes, characters, entity references, etc. are formatted according to the XML specification. Document validation (i.e. checking the document against a DTD) is not possible yet. The XHTML mode can be enabled/disabled using a parameter. Compact and platform independent edit-on Pro enables rich text editing with WYSIWYG comfort from every Java 1.1 capable device/Browser. No installation of client-side software (e.g. Swing libraries, plug-ins etc.) is required. Fully customizable The toolbar of edit-on Pro is fully customizable while the overall toolbar configuration is XML based. You can enable/disable every single icon, you are able to group icons using a separator, change the toolbar order or replace the standard icons with your own icons of different size. The look-and-feel of the editor can be changed by using various parameters, e.g. you can comfortably change colors or enable/disable the HTML View" of the editor. This flexibility is necessary if e.g. corporate design standards (fonts, layout etc.) have to be enforced. Multi language support Set the UI language by using a parameter at runtime, even on a per user basis. Currently edit-on Pro supports 4 UI languages (English, German, French and Spanish). Supplementary languages will be added based on demand. The XML based localization even allows the modification of the standard UI strings. So, own UI languages can be added. ...extract ends... Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org |
From: <jk...@Fr...> - 2002-01-23 10:28:37
|
sunil> Please check mailjol.com and contentmanager.de. Which aspects of these sites would you like people to examine more closely? Regards, Koshy <jk...@fr...> |
From: J. K. <jk...@us...> - 2002-01-23 09:21:23
|
Status of the Indic-Computing Project 20 Jan 2002 [Infrastructure] * We got our website up at http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/ Two mailing lists were created for carrying discussions: * "ind...@li..." is an unmoderated list for developers discussing indian language software tools. * "ind...@li..." is an unmoderated list for people discussing and evolving indian language computing standards. Two other special-purpose mailing lists were also created: * "ind...@li..." is a moderated, low-volume list for project related announcements. * "ind...@li..." is a public list that contains summaries of changes to the project sources. We are using the excellent infrastructure for collaborative development hosted by SourceForge.Net. Thank you, SourceForge! * Web-site infrastructure in partially ready. The website is today described using a rather ad-hoc mixture of SGML content in various forms. The website is built and installed using `make', a standard program development tool available in the unix environment. I am looking at organizing the website better, both in terms of content and build infrastructure. Suggestions are welcomed. * The Handbook skeleton is now in place. The Handbook is written in DocBook/SGML. These SGML sources are transformed into HTML, PDF, and RTF formats by the build toolchain. This infrastructure has been adapted from that used by the FreeBSD Documentation Project. * CVS infrastructure (version control) for the project is being put in place. The documentation (Handbook, FAQ, the project website, etc.) and project sources for whatever tools we develop, will be placed under CVS, and made publically accessible using SourceForge.Net standard facilities. [Languages] * Dr. U. B. Pavanaja of the Kannada Ganaka Parishat (KGP) was kind enough to hand over a CD containing KGP's latest standards in .doc (MS-Word) and PDF format. The CD also contained Microsoft Windows(r) executables for a standards-compliant word-processor and Kannada tutor. * Neeru Sethi located and procured for the project, information on the Gurmukhi script, some typewriter keyboard layouts and a sample of popular Gurmukhi fonts for our analysis. * Abraham Mathen has volunteered to compile information on Malayalam for the Handbook. [Projects] * We've received offers of help from many quarters. Thanks to all who have responded. * P. S. Vinod has taken up the task of helping design and implement a portable framework for indian language input. This work ties into one of our roadmap items: providing support for web-based indian language input. [Next Steps] * Project website to be worked on further. We need a "How to Contribute" article, listing the expectations from volunteers! Other infrastructure work to be completed. * The Handbook needs editors for language specific chapters. A call for Editors will be sent out, specifying the expected work loads and responsibilities. * Kannada and Gurmukhi information recieved has to be brought into the Handbook. * Continue on the tools and activities listed in the project roadmap. [About these project status reports] These project status reports are sent out approximately once a month, their exact frequency being something of a mystery to everyone. They are also archived under the project's website, under: http://indic-computing.sourceforge.net/status-reports/ |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-22 10:08:10
|
-----Original Message----- From: VinodKumar Srirama <vin...@ya...> > I would be exploring the support available through Java Input Method > framework for implementing support for Indic-languages. Please check mailjol.com and contentmanager.de. Thanks, Sunil -- Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org |
From: VinodKumar S. <vin...@ya...> - 2002-01-22 05:04:45
|
Greetings All, I am P. S. Vinodkumar (psvinod@sourceforge) and would like to contribute towards development of indic-computing methods. I would be exploring the support available through Java Input Method framework for implementing support for Indic-languages. I would request any pointers that you may have on the same. Best Regards Vinod __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ |
From: Apu S. <ap...@me...> - 2002-01-07 09:01:26
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Media Lab Asia Seeks Linux, System Software, and Networking Scientists ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What if an operating system were designed specifically for rural India instead of for urban Seattle, Washington? How might it be different in terms of scheduling, memory management, file systems, user interfaces, language support, memory image size, network support.... And what if 802.11 were redesigned for villages instead of office buildings? How would it differ in terms of power requirements, cost, RF properties.... Media Lab Asia aims to radically reconceptualize, for rural India, system software and network systems in its Systems Laboratory based on the IIT Madras campus in Chennai. Media Lab Asia consists of the renowned Media Laboratory at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), regional laboratories in Mumbai, Kanpur, New Delhi, and Chennai, and participating grassroots communities. The organization has its administrative headquarters in Mumbai. We are looking for world-class scientists and engineers interested in the applications of high-technologies to social and economic development and rural transformation. The successful applicant will have experience in either system software (Linux kernel experience a plus) or network engineering. A Ph.D. is preferred but ambitious new post graduates showing exceptional promise will be considered. E-mail us at jo...@me... and mention "System Software" in the subject line. Please include an introductory statement of 500 words or less along with your CV in plain text or HTML. URL links to relevant websites are welcome. Kindly forward to individuals or lists that may suit this profile. http://www.medialabasia.org/ |
From: sunil <su...@in...> - 2002-01-01 14:39:06
|
My name is Sunil and I work for a Bangalore based non-profit organization called MAHITI.ORG. We work towards making IT 'cheap' and 'simple' for the voluntary sector. We specialize in internet/intranet/multimedia and kiosk based applications. We used to be Microsoft centric but now we are migrating to Zope.com and Python.org. The two biggest headaches for us are:- 1. Lack of Indian language technologies for the Linux Client. So far only display seems to work. For a Windows clients we are using 'India Interactive' from Mithi.com. India Interactive is Unicode and ISCII compliant. It supports 11 languages and 4 forms of input per language [phonetic, on-screen keyboard, remmington, iscii]. Robust import and export to other vendor's font-code. It uses Java and has live update components. But they have not ported it to Linux yet. 2. Lack of the <IFRAME> object in the Linux world. The <IFRAME> object in MSIE acts like a browser embedded WYSYWYG HTML Editor [as in Hotmail.com]. We sorely need this component for our content management solutions. In addition we need to make the <IFRAME> equivalent multi- lingual. We do not have much Java competence and would like someone to help us developing the road map for this project. Dr. Amol Goje of VIITIndia.org [Vidhya Prathistan Institute of Information Technology, Baramathi, Maharastra] has consented to allot student project work for this project. In addition to that I have 2 Java programmers at my office. Thanks, Sunil -- Sunil Abraham Team Leader - MAHITI Info-tech for the Voluntary Sector India Cares, Vijay Kiran 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071. Karnataka. India Pager: +91 80 9624 279519 Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003, 5350035 E-mail: su...@ma... Web: http://www.mahiti.org |