Re: [Hydrogen-devel] Would like to play song :o) Oh, and feature dreams

[Paul D. <pau...@gm...>]

Hi again,


On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:42:18 +0200, Willie Sippel <wi...@fr...> wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 06:00, Paul Dorman wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > after seeing the latest article in the Linux Journal [nice :o)] I
> > decided to start using the CVS version. Looks beautiful - love the new
> > skin.
> > 
> Thanks!
> 
> > A few interface elements seem to have disappeared though, like the CPU
> > meter, jack transport, and play song button. Will these be gone for
> > long? Any other way to make a song play? I can start and stop patterns
> > with the space bar, so I thought maybe there's a way to start and stop
> > the song too.
> > 
> That's strange. The player controls, Jack and MIDI status and CPU meter
> should be located at the bottom of the main window...

We-i-i-i-i-ird, I didn't spot that at all! It was under my panel all
the time. Doh!

> > I wonder if it would be useful to add automation panels to the song
> > and pattern windows. Some kind of strip with colored bezier controls
> > on it. It could be used to control pan, pitch bend, gain, filters,
> > plugin parameters and other assignable bits and pieces over the length
> > of a pattern or song.
> > 
> It's already available for volume, and there's a rudimentary piano roll.
> More is planned planned (for the pattern editor). There's a mockup, the
> design is outdated, but it should give you an impression where we're
> heading (more or less):
> http://217.17.194.19/hydrogen/hydrogen_v1.png

Looks great! I think it would be useful to be able to create new
automation for anything in Hydrogen that can be controlled in real
time. Perhaps right-clicking a dial or slider could bring up a "create
new automation" option. Once selected, a new bezier line appears on
the automation graph, color coded to match the thing your controlling.
So, for example, I could right-click on an effect parameter and create
an automation element on the graph (which would be a straight line at
the current value of the slider). This automation element might be
colored orange, and something on the slider would turn orange too, to
indicate that there's an automation graph associated with it. On the
graph itself, perhaps you could right-click on the graph and have an
option to "show automation target", which would bring to focus
whatever it is that is being automated. So if it's some obscure effect
control, you'd have no problem finding it :o)

Another way to approach automation could be to create something like
an pattern automation of arbitary length. With this, I could create
some automation suited to a repeating element of my song, and insert
it into the grid just like a normal pattern. This is partly why I
suggested automation in the pattern grid as well.

If you could have arbitary pattern lengths, then it could be great to
have pattern grouping, whereby two or more patterns could be grouped
together and edited as one, either as a sequence (one after the
other), or as layers. With this facility, I c ould create a wicked
pattern sequence of, say four individual patterns, then group them so
I can tweak them as one long pattern, and design automation for that
pattern group.

Because the original patterns are still there, I could create a number
of different variations, each with their own automation.

> 
> > I can see some stuff in the source for selecting and moving sequences,
> > which is great. I presume there'll be insert and delete column
> > operations too, as well as the standard copy and paste (and undo!).
> >
> > It would be excellent to have an 'edit sample' button, which would
> > open either a minimal Hydrogen editor or an external editor of your
> > choice (perhaps with right/left mouse button, or hot-key to select
> > which). One thing I'd love to be able to do is play only a region of a
> > sample. Saving edited samples into a private bin (one for each song)
> > would be mandatory then I guess. Actually, sample start and sample end
> > could be two additional dial on the instrument editor. These could be
> > used along with the ADSR controls very nicely. Perhaps the ADSR and
> > start/end envelope could be drawn over the nice waveform that's now
> > there. Hey, you could even show the affected waveform there too, in a
> > different color.
> > 
> Nice idea - let's see what Alex thinks about that... :-)
> 
> > I wonder how people would feel about completely arbitary pattern
> > lengths? I might for example want to record keyboard that goes for the
> > whole song, in which case I'd create a pattern the length of the whole
> > song. Could be good for long samples too, like vocals and the like.
> >
> > I'd also like to have a MIDI shift control, so I can alter the timing
> > of a pattern sequence (in song dialogue) or one or more individual
> > instruments (in pattern editor). With this I could nuge an instrument
> > or pattern sequence by some arbitary amount of time.
> >
> > Also, a possible bug. I can't seem to insert a completely silent row
> > without using an empty pattern. Perhaps it could be good to have a
> > 'rest' element that could be inserted on the grid. If you allow for
> > shuffling a sequence, then the rest nodes could be of different sizes
> > (with different colors depending on their length). I would suggest
> > right-click in a sequence->insert rest to bring up a rest-period
> > control under the mouse pointer. Could be snappy (snapping to specific
> > periods in a pattern (1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, etc)) or smooth with say
> > ctrl button. Right-clicking any rest would bring up the same dialogue.
> > 
> Instead of 'insert rest', I would prefer to be able to simply allow
> positions without an assigned pattern.
> 
> > Is there currently a way to control the Ardour and Hydrogen transports
> > at the same time? I'd love if if I could click on one button to start
> > recording a song out of hydrogen. I noticed a track-outs option in the
> > preferences dialogue. Would this allow me to record a whole song with
> > one or more patterns per track in Ardour? If so that's really cool!
> > 
> Just click on the 'Jack' status line in the player controls to enable
> Jack transport.

Cool, thanks.

 
> > I'm loving hydrogen alot! It's excellent. And it looks like it's
> > getting better and better all the time. Enough to make me take up C++
> > again -- though don't expect anything useful from me for at least six
> > months, as I suck at programming at the moment.
> > 
> I know nothing about C++, but I'm also learning (to be more helpful
> implementing our new interface)...
> 
> > I've always avoided the Windows world of music software (I don't like
> > proprietory software and can't afford it anyway), and have been hoping
> > some decent OSS alternatives would be created. You guys are certainly
> > on track. Hydrogen with Ardour rocks! So thanks for your excellent
> > work!!!!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Paul
> > 
> Ciao.
> 
> Willie
> 
> Willie Sippel <wi...@fr...>
> [ z ] !

Hope my rambling isn't too much of a distraction :o). My suggestions
aren't totally fleshed out, and there's lots of inconsistency, but I'm
thinking that there's some signal somewhere in that noise that might
help Hydrogen become even more fun and powerful.

Ciao,
Paul