Re: [Gumstix-users] New factory image candidate

[Ash C. <as...@gu...>]

Does Ubuntu/Linaro/Fedora... provide enough flexibility?  The benefit
of OE/Poky/Yocto..., in my mind, has been the ability to customize an
installation from source to a developer can truly get only what they
want in their system (and from the bleeding edge if they really want).
 That said, processors and memory are getting powerful enough that
maybe this just doesn't matter any more.  Thoughts?  (I've wrestled
with this one myself on numerous occasions.  Pre-built, package-based
systems are sufficient for my own development work >90% of the time)

-Ash

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Andrew Kirch <tr...@tr...> wrote:
> I'd honestly like to see gumstix concentrate solely on QA issues with
> the kernel, uboot, x-load and documentation.  Ubuntu and others provide
> stable and mature arm environments which work nearly flawlessly with the
> Gumstix.
>
> Andrew
>
> On 4/8/2011 2:10 PM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote:
>> Hi Neil,
>>
>> "We are currently evaluating whether Gumstix support in OE has matured
>> enough to render a separate branch unnecessary."
>>
>> So what could be the possible conclusion of this:
>>
>> 1- Keep the overo branch
>> 2- Work directly in the org.openembedded.dev (Maturity will increase
>> with the number of review)
>>
>> What I understand of the process of open embedded is that they develop
>> in org.openembedded.dev and they have stable branch (stable/2009) where
>> the overo stable branch could go, when stable.
>>
>> So what are the main reason of not following there process? Or improving
>> it?
>>
>> Just to conclude I will add some interesting reason why going upstream
>> will benefit for Gumstix & OE:
>>
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/4/1/50
>>
>> Here little summary:
>>
>> Ingo Molnar --------------------
>>
>> If companies do not 'bother to push upstream', then management will
>> eventually notice negative economic consequences:
>>
>>  - Higher short-term production costs: upstream feedback/review/testing
>>    improves the product, so the lack of upstream feedback/review/testing
>>    increases the production costs of the product.
>>
>>  - Higher long-term production costs: gradually slower SoC development
>>    due to a morass of out-of-tree hacks that weren’t pushed upstream
>>    causing gradually higher development costs. This means higher payroll
>>    costs and longer time to market - in which time more flexible
>>    competitors can beat you.
>>
>>  - Brain drain: developers like to show their good work upstream as
>>    well, not just in some ship-and-forget out-of-tree kernel. Good
>>    developers will gravitate towards SoC companies that encourage them
>>    to work upstream. No matter how good of a business idea a company has
>>    if there's no good developers.
>>
>>  - Less revenue: a product can not possibly be more appealing to SoC
>>    customers if the upstream Linux kernel does not support it. As ARM
>>    moves up the food chain towards more complex, higher profit margin
>>    products longer term thinking gains foothold gradually.
>>
>>  - Competitive disadvantages: most SoC competitors push their changes
>>    upstream, so they get free development assistance, they get free
>>    exposure, they get free PR and they get opportunities. Not pushing
>>    upstream is a lost opportunity.
>>
>> All of these effects translate into real $$$$$$$ and affect the bottom
>> line very directly, both short and long term. These costs also increase
>> with time so they are not fixed.
>>
>> --
>> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2011-04-07 at 15:41 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote:
>>> Hi Kevyn,
>>>
>>> The Overo branch is intended to provide a quick path to a working build
>>> enviroment for Gumstix users. We are currently evaluating whether
>>> Gumstix support in OE has matured enough to render a separate branch
>>> unnecessary. Any feedback is welcome - our goal is to support this
>>> community as best we can. Next week I'll be able to offer a better idea
>>> of our OE integration plans.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your continued support.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Neil
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11-04-07 08:39 AM, Kevyn-Alexandre Paré wrote:
>>>> Neil,
>>>>
>>>> Just to understand the changes / your process of dev
>>>>
>>>> You branch from org.openembedded.dev to overo
>>>>
>>>> You stabilize the code in overo branch.
>>>> What kind of test do you have to determine that you determine it stable?
>>>> Do you have a check list or something?
>>>>
>>>> Then what do you push upstream and not, and why not??
>>>>
>>>> I understand Koen frustration and I'm trying to understand why gumstix
>>>> code is not sync with dev?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Kevyn-Alexandre Paré
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 09:49 -0700, Neil MacMunn wrote:
>>>>> Koen,
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me clarify:
>>>>> Recipe changes that I make in the gumstix-oe repository are meant to be
>>>>> a convenience for gumstix users. This allows them to get a working build
>>>>> environment set up as fast as possible. I don't think these are suitable
>>>>> for merging into the upstream. If there is a better way for me to
>>>>> achieve this, improve Gumstix support, and contribute upstream I'm happy
>>>>> to comply.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for bug fixes, I typically report problems - and any solution I find
>>>>> - to upstream developers so they can choose the appropriate corrective
>>>>> action.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any suggestions to improve this process, please share them
>>>>> here. Let's keep things civil though :)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Neil
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Xperia(TM) PLAY
>>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
>>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
>>> And it wants your games.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Xperia(TM) PLAY
>> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
>> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
>> And it wants your games.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
>> _______________________________________________
>> gumstix-users mailing list
>> gum...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Xperia(TM) PLAY
> It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
> smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
> And it wants your games.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
> _______________________________________________
> gumstix-users mailing list
> gum...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gumstix-users
>