[gst-devel] Daily IRC logs

[<wim...@ch...>]

[06:35] Nick change: taaz -> taaz-gone
[06:42] ajmitch (me...@p3...) left irc: http://www.freedev=
elopers.net
[06:49] dobey (dobey@141.154.95.104) joined #gstreamer.
[06:52] ArthurDent (cfi...@20....=
rcn.com) joined #gstreamer.
[07:05] ArthurDent (cfi...@20....=
rcn.com) left #gstreamer.
[09:14] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) got netsplit.
[09:14] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) returned to #gstreamer.
[10:54] ajmitch (me...@p1...) joined #gstreamer.
[11:17] dobey (dobey@141.154.95.104) left irc: [x]chat
[11:18] ajmitch (me...@p1...) left irc: Ping timeout for =
ajmitch[p13-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz]
[11:18] ajmitch (me@203.173.238.141) joined #gstreamer.
[11:21] Nick change: ajmitch -> aj_zzzz
[11:27] steveb (st...@no...) joined #gstreamer.
[11:50] greg_ (gr...@ho...) joined #gstreamer.
[12:53] WildFox (ni...@p3...) joined #gstreamer.
[12:54] <WildFox> Hi Guys!
[12:54] <WildFox> someone up?
[12:59] Action: steveb snores
[13:05] <greg_> greg is going to have a walk (it so sunny today)
[13:05] Nick change: greg_ -> greg_-walking-
[13:06] Nick change: greg_-walking- -> greg_-walking-\
[13:11] Nick change: wtay-snooker -> wtay
[13:11] <wtay> yo
[13:13] <steveb> hi
[13:13] <WildFox> hi
[13:13] <WildFox> some devs here?
[13:13] <wtay> I sorta do...
[13:13] <steveb> so modest
[13:13] <WildFox> ah
[13:13] <WildFox> i saw your cvs logs wtay:)
[13:14] <WildFox> would you answer some questions?
[13:14] <WildFox> to me
[13:14] <wtay> like 'em ? <g>
[13:14] <wtay> sure
[13:14] <WildFox> first of all i have to say i'm a KDE multimedia dev
[13:14] <wtay> cool
[13:14] <WildFox> and we are highly interested in GStreamer
[13:14] <WildFox> no fool!
[13:14] <wtay> even cooler
[13:14] <wtay> damn
[13:14] <WildFox> i know it's first april but that's no fool :)
[13:15] <wtay> ah
[13:15] <wtay> I'm easily fooled =3D-)
[13:15] <WildFox> What is with the performance of GStreamer?
[13:15] <WildFox> let's say when playing mp3
[13:15] <WildFox> high load?
[13:15] <WildFox> dropouts?
[13:15] <WildFox> ....
[13:15] <wtay> not really
[13:15] <wtay> the mp3 plugin is kinda slow
[13:16] <wtay> we hacked mpg123 to make it thread safe
[13:16] <WildFox> but i like your architecture
[13:16] <wtay> ok
[13:16] <WildFox> hehe
[13:16] <wtay> the core has very low overhead
[13:16] <wtay> no real measurements yet
[13:16] <WildFox> there's a thread in here now
[13:16] <WildFox> kde-multimedia i mean
[13:16] <wtay> oh
[13:16] <steveb> wtay: I'm working on putting GST_PROPS_FLOAT into gstpro=
ps but am coming up against the GINT_TO_GPOINTER stuff - any suggestions
[13:16] <WildFox> the author of our mpeglib wants Arts playobjects
[13:16] <WildFox> for gstreamer
[13:17] <WildFox> so that arts can natively load gstreamer-plugins
[13:17] <wtay> great!
[13:17] <WildFox> but we have  one really big problem
[13:17] <wtay> should not be a problem I guess
[13:17] <wtay> oh?
[13:17] <WildFox> aRts is done by Stefan Westerfeld
[13:17] <WildFox> he's the arts hacker
[13:17] <WildFox> and all the other ppl _NOT_!
[13:17] <WildFox> the arts architecture is good
[13:18] <WildFox> but COMPLICATED LIKE HEELL
[13:18] <WildFox> i can't hack it that's sure
[13:18] <wtay> hmm
[13:18] <WildFox> and now we even think about a replacement
[13:18] <WildFox> ...
[13:18] <WildFox> at least me and another dev
[13:18] <wtay> oh?
[13:18] <wtay> why is it too complicated?
[13:18] <WildFox> hmm
[13:18] <WildFox> 1. it can't handle anything else then audio
[13:19] Action: wtay never looked at aRts..
[13:19] <wtay> but you had video too IRCC
[13:19] <WildFox> 2. it can't play ie. mp3....mpeg...etc nativly
[13:19] <WildFox> 3. there is no real plugin system
[13:19] <WildFox> we have, yes
[13:19] <WildFox> but via mpeglib
[13:19] <WildFox> it's a hack
[13:19] <WildFox> not clean
[13:19] <wtay> oh
[13:19] <wtay> no plugin system?
[13:19] <WildFox> same would be for arts + gstreamer
[13:19] <WildFox> mpeglib has one
[13:19] <WildFox> but mpeglib + arts is frickled into each other
[13:19] <WildFox> and i must really say
[13:20] <WildFox> we have many dropouts when playing :/
[13:20] <WildFox> and i would try to fix
[13:20] <WildFox> but too ugly everytinhg
[13:20] <wtay> mpeg1 playback in gstreamer is almost perfect..
[13:21] <WildFox> see.=B7
[13:21] <WildFox> that's what i mean
[13:21] <WildFox> that's why i'm here :)
[13:21] <wtay> only frame dropping and QoS is not implemented yet
[13:21] <WildFox> does your core depend on gtk?
[13:21] <wtay> for now it still does
[13:21] <wtay> we plan to move to glib real soon now
[13:22] <WildFox> great
[13:22] <wtay> zaheer is going to start on that this or next week
[13:22] <WildFox> that's the same thing we did with arts
[13:22] <WildFox> arts core is complete c
[13:22] <WildFox> w/o qt w/o gtk
[13:22] <WildFox> ..
[13:22] <wtay> yes
[13:22] <wtay> I'm now working on a plain X videosink
[13:22] <WildFox> we planned to share with GNOME=20
[13:23] <WildFox> shit is/was/will be
[13:23] <wtay> I heard yes..
[13:23] <WildFox> that stefan has no clue about video
[13:23] <WildFox> and you are that far
[13:23] <WildFox> and the dev's are cool *hehe* :)
[13:23] <wtay> :-)
[13:23] <WildFox> if you get the rid of gtk in the core we could think of=
 a nice shared solution
[13:23] <WildFox> between KDE and GNOME
[13:23] <wtay> well lemme say that we do not interfere with GNOME/aRts pl=
ans
[13:24] <WildFox> mom
[13:24] <WildFox> dict.leo.org :)
[13:24] <WildFox> aho
[13:24] <WildFox> ok :)
[13:25] <WildFox> hm
[13:25] <WildFox> but gstreamer has things which are really needed _now_ =
which arts hasn't
[13:25] <wtay> are you going to be at GUADEC?
[13:25] <WildFox> probably no
[13:25] <WildFox> but perhaps yes
[13:26] <wtay> the aRts presentation is right before the GStreamer presen=
tation
[13:26] <WildFox> nicest thing
[13:26] <WildFox> gstreamer: complete gtk independant
[13:26] <WildFox> i think
[13:26] <wtay> yes that's the idea
[13:26] <WildFox> arts has the more flexible core
[13:26] <WildFox> gstreamer the pluginsystem + nice plugins
[13:26] <WildFox> very nice plugins :)
[13:26] <wtay> zaheer *needs* this RSN because he's doing a media server =
and he doesn't want X on it
[13:27] <WildFox> if we could merge the projecs somehow
[13:27] <WildFox> that would be very great
[13:27] <WildFox> GNOME+KDE shared Audio implementation
[13:27] <WildFox> sounds nice, eh?
[13:27] <wtay> very
[13:27] <WildFox> as arts doesn't depend on qt
[13:27] <WildFox> and gstreamer also not
[13:27] <WildFox> that would be possible
[13:27] <WildFox> <- brb
[13:27] <wtay> why is the aRts core more flexible?
[13:29] <WildFox> hmm
[13:29] <WildFox> ever seen artsbuilder?
[13:30] <wtay> not sure..
[13:30] <wtay> does it look like gsteditor?
[13:30] <wtay> arts.kde.org?
[13:30] <WildFox> wait
[13:30] <WildFox> i'll give you a screenie
[13:30] <WildFox> ok?
[13:31] <wtay> sure
[13:31] <wtay> a URL preferably
[13:31] <wtay> http://www.arts-project.org/
[13:32] <WildFox> yep
[13:32] <WildFox> but a new screenie:
[13:33] <WildFox> http://wildfox.dyndns.org/images/arts.png
[13:34] hadess (ha...@pc...) joined #gstreamer.
[13:34] <wtay> hi
[13:35] <hadess> hi wtay
[13:35] <wtay> WildFox: yup, audio only, at a finer lvere then the gstrea=
mer plugins
[13:35] <wtay> WildFox: did you see overflow?
[13:35] <WildFox> overflow ?
[13:36] <wtay> http://freespeech.sourceforge.net/overflow.html
[13:36] <WildFox> mom
[13:36] <wtay> very similar
[13:37] <WildFox> hmm ok
[13:37] <wtay> aRts and overflow target the construction of gstreamer plu=
gins (at a more detailed level)
[13:38] <WildFox> arts existed before gstreamer
[13:38] <wtay> yes
[13:38] <wtay> with a different goal IMO
[13:38] <WildFox> yep
[13:38] <WildFox> it's aim was a complete syntesizer
[13:38] <WildFox> before
[13:38] <wtay> the overflow guys is going to intergrate his stuff too he =
said
[13:39] <WildFox> ah
[13:39] <WildFox> btw
[13:39] <wtay> the idea is to use overflow to constuct an element that is=
 inserted in a gstreamer pipeline
[13:39] <WildFox> will gstreamer be GNOME's standard sound system?
[13:39] <wtay> aRts would be similar I think
[13:39] <wtay> WildFox: undecided
[13:39] <hadess> gstreamer is not designed to be a sound system
[13:39] <WildFox> not?
[13:40] <wtay> we are not promoting it as such
[13:40] <hadess> there are great chances that the basic arts will become =
the sound server for gnome 2.0, replacing esd
[13:40] <wtay> we kinda got sucked into it because our project starts wit=
h a 'g' :)
[13:40] <WildFox> hehe
[13:40] <WildFox> yep
[13:40] <WildFox> arts will be KDE's + GNOME's soundserver
[13:40] <WildFox> cause it's great
[13:40] <WildFox> only missing thing
[13:40] <WildFox> only missing things
[13:40] <wtay> as I said, we are not interfering with GNOME/aRts plans
[13:41] <WildFox> plugin archiecure
[13:41] <WildFox> will be done soon
[13:41] <WildFox> + ability to use gstreamer plugins
[13:41] <wtay> I would not object to an aRts plugin for gstreamer though
[13:41] <WildFox> humm
[13:41] <WildFox> i don't understand that sentence
[13:41] <wtay> as a way to flow the data to aRts
[13:41] <WildFox> <- no native english speaker
[13:41] <wtay> I mean:
[13:41] <wtay> aRts does audio, and it does so very well
[13:42] <wtay> gstreamer does a lot more
[13:42] <wtay> imagine an mpeg1 player that needs to play sound, gstreame=
r routes that to the aRts plugin
[13:42] <WildFox> oh
[13:42] <WildFox> i won't do that
[13:42] <WildFox> think of syncing issues
[13:43] <wtay> you do your funky stuff with aRts, while gstreamer does th=
e other things it is good at
[13:43] <WildFox> i think my idea is the better longtime seen
[13:43] <WildFox> merging gstreamer + arts
[13:43] <WildFox> the GNOME/KDE Sound System
[13:43] <WildFox> no=20
[13:43] <WildFox> even more
[13:43] <WildFox> the Linux Sound System
[13:44] <WildFox> something like this
[13:44] <wtay> and how would you merge them then?
[13:44] <WildFox> playing all kinds of audio
[13:44] <WildFox> video
[13:44] <WildFox> even dvd
[13:44] <WildFox> etc..
[13:44] <WildFox> hmm
[13:44] <WildFox> the implementation is a completly different point
[13:44] <hadess> gstreamer already does that on its own
[13:44] <WildFox> yes
[13:44] <WildFox> but not things like ...artsbuilder etc..
[13:44] <WildFox> i think gstreamer's core is even better
[13:45] <wtay> so what I propose is to take the things of aRts and incorp=
orate them in gstreamer
[13:45] <WildFox> right
[13:45] <WildFox> all the "good" thinks from aRts into gstreamer
[13:45] <wtay> incorporating means creating an aRts plugin
[13:45] <wtay> in gstreamer
[13:45] <WildFox> hmm
[13:46] <WildFox> so your project doesn't _WANT_ to be a full featured so=
undserver?
[13:46] <wtay> nope
[13:46] <wtay> can be used for it but it's not the goal IMO
[13:46] <WildFox> oh
[13:46] <wtay> gstreamer is targetted at large media handling (video edit=
ing/audio editing etc..)
[13:47] <wtay> render farms etc..
[13:47] <wtay> anything media related
[13:47] <WildFox> hmm
[13:47] <WildFox> but you would say
[13:47] <WildFox> ok we do video
[13:47] <WildFox> but for audio we route to arts
[13:47] <WildFox> why ?
[13:48] <wtay> why would we rebuild aRts?
[13:48] <wtay> for audio we route for example to esd..
[13:48] <WildFox> i'd say designing issues
[13:49] <wtay> gstreamer is the glue between plugins really, managing sch=
eduling and state etc..
[13:49] greg_-walking-\ (gr...@ho...) left irc: [x]chat
[13:49] <wtay> it is like a integration middleware
[13:49] <WildFox> yes
[13:49] <WildFox> so like:
[13:49] <WildFox>          gstreamer ->>>>>>>>>>> plugin MPEG
[13:49] <WildFox>             |
[13:49] <WildFox>              ->>>>>>>>>>>>> plugin aRts
[13:50] <WildFox> ...
[13:50] <WildFox> but i'd say that's not good
[13:50] <wtay> more like:
[13:50] <WildFox> better have your own ie. way play object
[13:50] <wtay> disksrc->mpg123->aRts
[13:50] <wtay> or disksrc->mpg123->aRts->RTPsrc
[13:50] <WildFox> huh?
[13:50] <WildFox> whats that?
[13:51] <wtay> http://gstreamer.net/mpeg2.png
[13:51] <wtay> we connect plugins in gstreamer that manipulate the data i=
n some way
[13:51] <WildFox> ah
[13:51] <WildFox> like
[13:52] <WildFox> mom
[13:52] <wtay> the play_audio element at the end is where audio is render=
ed (esd/oss/RTP/aRts,...)
[13:52] <WildFox>    pitch changer
[13:52] <WildFox>          |
[13:52] <WildFox>   WAV PLAY OBJECT               -> OUTPUT
[13:52] <WildFox>                     |
[13:52] <WildFox>                delay changer
[13:52] <WildFox> and the scheduling is done by gstreamer?
[13:52] <wtay> yes
[13:52] <WildFox> hmm
[13:52] <WildFox> same like arts
[13:53] <wtay> it doesn't care what media it is handling, it just passes =
data
[13:53] <WildFox> MCOP
[13:53] <WildFox> ..
[13:53] <WildFox> that's MCOP's aim
[13:53] <wtay> CORBA/XML to construct remote piplines
[13:54] <WildFox> hmm
[13:55] <WildFox> but generally it would be a good idea if arts could "us=
e" those gstreamer-plugins
[13:55] <wtay> yes
[13:55] <wtay> overflow is trying to do the same
[13:55] <wtay> you have to make sure you can handle the scheduling though
[13:55] <WildFox> yep
[13:55] <WildFox> arts can do that
[13:55] <WildFox> it does the same
[13:55] <hadess> WildFox: have you produced code for arts or another mult=
imedia project ?
[13:56] <WildFox> hadess: i'm KDE sound developer
[13:56] <hadess> ok
[13:56] <wtay> gstreamer uses threads and cothreads quite extensively
[13:56] <wtay> push and pull based
[13:56] <WildFox> stefan westerfeld is at the moment making everything th=
read-safe
[13:57] <hadess> what a waste...
[13:57] <WildFox> hmm ?
[13:57] <wtay> hadess: why?
[13:57] <WildFox> what do you mean, hadess?
[13:57] <hadess> have you seen the gstreamer flame-war on kd-multimedia ?
[13:58] <wtay> hadess: done by a signle individual
[13:58] <wtay> s/done/started
[13:58] <WildFox> i love my mail:
[13:58] <WildFox> "
[13:58] <WildFox>  even mpg123 is better IMHO
[13:58] <WildFox>  we should _NEVER_ ever do this step!
[13:58] <WildFox>  pls guys don't even think about it
[13:58] <WildFox> =20
[13:58] <WildFox> i think you are absolutly right Charles
[13:59] <wtay> there's no need to flame, we should cooperate
[13:59] <WildFox>  we actually have alternatives!
[13:59] <WildFox>  Bye
[13:59] <WildFox>   Bye
[13:59] <WildFox>    Niko
[13:59] <WildFox>  "
[13:59] <WildFox> have a look at the time
[13:59] <WildFox> :)))
[13:59] <hadess> http://lists.kde.org/?l=3Dkde-multimedia&m=3D98605060521=
638&w=3D2
[13:59] <WildFox> 01 April 2001 01:15
[13:59] <WildFox> heyx
[13:59] <WildFox> charles didn't mean it like this!
[13:59] <WildFox> you missunderstood
[13:59] <WildFox> April!
[14:00] <hadess> hmmm, that's a bad one then
[14:00] <hadess> because it could actually be true
[14:00] dichro (di...@CP...) joined #gs=
treamer.
[14:00] <WildFox> no
[14:00] <hadess> i remember the april fool's joke "Gimp ported to Win32" =
a couple of years ago...
[14:01] <WildFox> see dot.kde.org
[14:01] <WildFox> we replaced all c++ stuff in KDE with JavaScript
[14:01] <WildFox> + HTML
[14:01] <WildFox> + QPainter with gecko
[14:01] <WildFox> ;))))
[14:01] <dichro> greetings - would this be a bad time for some foolish qu=
estions about gstreamer?
[14:02] <wtay> dichro: go ahead :)
[14:03] <WildFox> hadess: what's your realname?
[14:03] <WildFox> if i may ask
[14:03] <dichro> it's actually fairly simple :) the context is a webcam -=
 given a single source and multiple sinks that sink data at variable rate=
s, is there an easy way to handle the pipeline/pipeline forking?
[14:03] Uraeus (csc...@c2...) joined #gstreamer.
[14:03] <wtay> yo
[14:03] <Uraeus> hi
[14:03] <wtay> dichro: pipeline forking?
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: you mean like a media server?
[14:04] <dichro> um - attaching two sinks to a single src? can that be do=
ne?
[14:04] Action: dichro nods
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: yes
[14:04] <dichro> 'approximately, yes.
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: use a tee
[14:04] <wtay> dichro: a tee forks the data=20
[14:05] <wtay> dichro: you can request additional pads at runtime
[14:05] <dichro> 'how does flow control work if they sink data at differe=
nt rates? does it work at all, or does the entire thing block until all o=
f the sinks have handled each frame?
[14:05] <wtay> dichro: but only when incremental scheduling has been merg=
ed...
[14:05] <WildFox> hadess wtay: Thank you very much for the talk!
[14:05] <wtay> WildFox: no prob
[14:05] <WildFox> Bye
[14:05] Action: dichro grins
[14:05] <hadess> WildFox: good luck with kde =3D)
[14:05] <WildFox> thnx :)
[14:05] <wtay> dichro: depends on how the sink is made
[14:05] WildFox (ni...@p3...) left #gstreamer (*eat*=
).
[14:06] <wtay> dichro: I would suggest a threaded setup so the src never =
blocks
[14:06] <Uraeus> hadess: wildfox wanted to use GStreamer in KDE?
[14:06] <wtay> Uraeus: yup
[14:06] <Uraeus> wtay: what about aRTS?
[14:06] <wtay> Uraeus: assimilated :-)
[14:07] <dichro> so - the best thing would be for the sink to grab frames=
 as far the source can offer them, and just throw them away if it can't d=
o anything useful with them?
[14:07] <wtay> dichro: exectly
[14:07] <Uraeus> good, actually if GNOME used aRTS as a soundserver and K=
DE used GStreamer as a multimedia framework that would be really cool
[14:07] <wtay> s/exectly/exactly
[14:08] <Uraeus> wtay: will he make and aRTS sink from GStreamer?
[14:08] <wtay> Uraeus: still investigating
[14:08] Action: dichro ponders
[14:08] <dichro> wtay: thanks for that, it's simplified the options a gre=
at deal :)
[14:08] <wtay> dichro: be sure to take a look at zaheer's work
[14:09] <wtay> dichro: he's making a media server with gst and RTP
[14:09] <dichro> wtay: what and where is that?
[14:09] <hadess> Uraeus: lemme show you something
[14:09] <wtay> dichro: no URL yet.. not sure where it is
[14:09] <wtay> dichro: OpenTeleMedia IIRC
[14:09] <dichro> wtay: I think we're aiming at slightly different target =
audiences - my goal is firstly to supplant camserv :)
[14:10] <wtay> dichro: ok
[14:11] <hadess> Uraeus: ?
[14:11] <wtay> dichro: how are you going to send out data to the client?
[14:11] <dichro> wtay: HTTP.
[14:11] <wtay> dichro: ah ok
[14:11] <wtay> dichro: need to integrate it into apache then?
[14:12] <dichro> wtay: camserv has a cute trick with mixed/x-multipart-re=
place, and I presume there's *some* kind of streaming video thing that's =
reasonably well suppported somewhere
[14:13] <dichro> wtay: possibly - it would be nice, from the perspective =
of unified statistics, management and so on.
[14:13] <wtay> dichro: what encoding are you going to use then?
[14:13] <dichro> wtay: one idea that crossed my mind was a SysV shmem sin=
k, and some very simple CGIs that would grab encoded frames out of it
[14:14] <dichro> wtay: camserv does multipart/x-mixed-replace with each p=
art being a JPEG frame.
[14:14] <wtay> dichro: ok cool
[14:14] <dichro> wtay: it works really well - but only with netscape.
[14:14] <wtay> dichro: hmm
[14:14] <hadess> Uraeus: ?
[14:14] <Uraeus> hadess
[14:14] <Uraeus> I am bakc
[14:15] <Uraeus> hadess: ok, what do you have to show me
[14:15] <hadess> Uraeus: can you accept the dcc
[14:15] <Uraeus> yes
[14:16] <Uraeus> hadess: it plays mp3's now?
[14:16] <hadess> Uraeus: still not, but it's cddb enabled
[14:16] <wtay> dichro: you'll probably need a queue that throws away fram=
es when the queue is full...
[14:16] <hadess> Uraeus: i need to add the playlist and the library loadi=
ng before being able to play mp3s
[14:16] <wtay> dichro: th normal queue would blovk
[14:16] <Uraeus> hadess: cool, looks nice too. Did you have those bottom =
buttons last time you sent me a screenshot?
[14:17] <hadess> Uraeus: no
[14:17] <Uraeus> hadess: they look great
[14:17] Action: dichro nods
[14:17] <Uraeus> need to run, going carting
[14:17] Nick change: Uraeus -> U_carting
[14:17] <dichro> wtay: I'd just about figured out that I'd need to do my =
own flow control, the only question is where
[14:17] <hadess> U_carting: have fun =3D)
[14:18] <dichro> wtay: I could do a single pipeline, grab finished frames=
 out the end, and manually distribute them out to the sockets (either via=
 direct network write, or bouncing through shmem out to individual CGIs, =
which is another can of flow control worms)
[14:19] <dichro> wtay: or I thought that there might have been a way of e=
xpressing all of the flow control logic within a pipeline somehow, and I =
wouldn't need to write any extra code :)
[14:21] <dichro> I guess the other question is - is there any method of s=
treaming video that's broadly supported with just a generic browser?
[14:21] <wtay> dichro: either way, I think gstreamer can handle the threa=
ding stuff too, only problem is the interaction with the CGI stuff
[14:21] <wtay> dichro: nope
[14:22] <wtay> dichro: jpeg is your only option is you take a regular bro=
wser
[14:22] <wtay> s/is/if
[14:23] Action: dichro nods
[14:23] <dichro> No worse off than I am right now, I guess. Pity - I was =
getting all excited about subtitle support in mpeg, too.
[14:23] <wtay> you might be able to create a HTTPsend plugin in gstreamer=
 and fork it from apache...
[14:24] <wtay> somhow pass it the fd of the incomming connection..
[14:24] <dichro> to be honest, I'm not terribly concerned about the CGI i=
nterface - I think that should be fairly easy to do.
[14:24] <dichro> wtay: that's one way of doing it - the fd passing overhe=
ad would easily be lost in the codec noise
[14:25] <wtay> the beauty is that the src can be anything, even MPEG2 wit=
h subtitles
[14:25] <dichro> wtay: ya, but I want to deliver video + subtitles to the=
 user :)
[14:25] <dichro> wtay: I guess it needs an overlay plugin to mix the two =
into a single jpeg image :P
[14:25] <dichro> wtay: or does that already exist?
[14:25] <wtay> dichro: done already
[14:26] Action: dichro laughs
[14:26] <dichro> wtay: should have guessed :)
[14:26] <wtay> it merges MPEG2 subtitles with any incomming video frame
[14:27] <wtay> not very optimal yet because the input pad only handles en=
coded MPEG2 subtitles, but hey :)
[14:32] <dichro> wtay: thanks for the sage advice, I'll play this week an=
d see if I can create something that can stand the light of day.
[14:32] <wtay> dichro: heh, ok
[14:32] Action: dichro waves
[14:32] dichro (di...@CP...) left irc: =
Leaving
[14:44] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) got netsplit.
[14:44] steveb (st...@no...) got netsplit.
[14:44] matth-not-listening (ma...@qw...) got netsplit.
[14:44] U_carting (csc...@c2...) got netsplit.
[14:52] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) returned to #gstreamer.
[14:55] matth-not-listening (ma...@qw...) got lost in the ne=
t-split.
[14:55] steveb (st...@no...) got lost in the net-split.
[14:55] U_carting (csc...@c2...) got lost in the net-s=
plit.
[15:12] djcb (bi...@29...) joined #gstreamer.
[15:13] <djcb> omega-europe: ?
[15:13] <wtay> djcb: dunno..
[15:14] <djcb> wtay: ok... i need to talk to him about directions
[15:14] <djcb> .. of his talk of monday night.
[15:15] <wtay> oh
[15:15] <djcb> anyway, i'll send him mail.
[15:30] <BBB-[away]> wtay: a small change in gstplay to prevent it from c=
rashing
[15:31] <wtay> BBB-[away]: oooh cool!
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> wtay: can you do me a favour and make the changes an=
d upload them to CVS? :)
[15:31] <wtay> BBB-[away]: sure
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> ok
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> in gstplay, in the function gst_play_stop()
[15:31] <BBB-[away]> you set the state to GST_STATE_NULL, make this GST_S=
TATE_READY
[15:32] <wtay> ok
[15:32] <BBB-[away]> the problem is now that if you press stop or EOF is =
reached, it will not go back to zero
[15:32] <BBB-[away]> but that's probably a small change to get that to wo=
rk too
[15:32] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:33] <wtay> logically it should go to NULL...
[15:33] <BBB-[away]> with this change, it doesn't crash by default (vob E=
OF still crashes and if you press stop here - it DOES go back to zero (?)=
, I have no clue why...)
[15:33] <wtay> is the problem the fact that the offset cannot be changed =
after going to NULL?
[15:34] <BBB-[away]> wtay: I'm not completely sure.... I hardly ever look=
ed into the source. I made this change yesterday when me and zaheer and e=
rik and steve were looking and hacking during our oddesey
[15:34] <BBB-[away]> I should actually try to understand the source first=
.....
[15:34] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:37] <wtay> BBB-[away]: what did you guys talk about?
[15:37] <BBB-[away]> about lots of things
[15:37] <BBB-[away]> erik gave a whole description of what needs to be do=
ne for the next release
[15:37] <BBB-[away]> and I tried to understand some parts of it :)
[15:38] <wtay> anything you could remember? <g>
[15:38] Action: wtay is curious
[15:38] <BBB-[away]> lol
[15:38] <BBB-[away]> well, the eos problem :)
[15:39] <wtay> yes... <g>
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and also when you have a dual stream pipe and one is=
 filled with buffer and the other is not, what should it do
[15:39] <wtay> yes... and...
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and some structure changes which you should ask erik=
 about since I don't know much about that
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and he wanted to rewrite something
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> he already did it 8 times
[15:39] <wtay> the scheduling?
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> and now he had to do it again
[15:39] <BBB-[away]> because it shouls still be different
[15:40] <BBB-[away]> scheduling
[15:40] <BBB-[away]> yes
[15:40] <wtay> ok same old...
[15:40] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:40] <wtay> that's one of the main functionalities of gstreamer
[15:41] <BBB-[away]> hm
[15:41] <BBB-[away]> it's not as it should be, he said :P
[15:41] <wtay> I'm sure it isn't...
[15:41] <wtay> it's a hard problem
[15:41] <wtay> we know we should have at least 10 rewrites before it's 10=
0% ok
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> uhm......
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> what is so hard about it?
[15:42] <wtay> EOS, state changes, events etc...
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> hm....
[15:42] <BBB-[away]> ok :)
[15:42] <wtay> threads, cothreads, chains etc...
[15:43] <wtay> lot's of experimentation needed
[15:43] <BBB-[away]> hm........
[15:43] <BBB-[away]> too technical for me :P
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> ps, tell me if the problem of the eos/stop not going=
 back to zero is fixed, ok?
[15:46] <wtay> BBB-[away]: I slightly modified the state changes it now c=
rashes less violently
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> so I can re-test my own movies :P
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> wtay: it shouldn't crash AT ALL
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> :P
[15:46] <wtay> stop->play doesn't work
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> um
[15:46] <BBB-[away]> but if eos/eof is reached, it doesn't crash?
[15:47] <wtay> nope
[15:47] <BBB-[away]> that's good :P
[15:47] <wtay> ok
[15:47] <BBB-[away]> and if you press stop it doesn't crash as well? :P
[15:47] <wtay> it does
[15:47] <BBB-[away]> ?
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> but eos/eof and stop is basically the same!!!
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> I looked at the source.
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> it both triggers gst_play_stop();
[15:48] <BBB-[away]> so that's kinda weird
[15:48] <wtay> eos is triggered from the pipeline, stop can also be trigg=
ered from the GUI
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> that's true.........
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> but the action is the same in both cases.....
[15:49] <wtay> hmm, it's my fix that fails...
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> muhahahahahhahahaahhaha :P
[15:49] <BBB-[away]> lol
[15:50] <wtay> ok, I'll commit your suggestion although it is not the rig=
ht fix IMO
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> it's not
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> but at least it doesn't crash anymore :P
[15:50] <wtay> true
[15:50] <wtay> that's why I'll commit it :-)
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> the thing is just that it doesn't go back to zero, i=
f you can change that it should be okay :)
[15:50] <BBB-[away]> and don't forget my name :P :P :P
[15:51] <wtay> BBB-[away]: where do you want your name to be shown?
[15:51] <BBB-[away]> nowhere :P
[15:51] <BBB-[away]> it's just one line :P
[15:51] <wtay> BBB-[away]: you sure? <g>
[15:51] <BBB-[away]> that'and you'll change it anyway if you fix the not-=
back-to-zero problem :P
[15:51] <wtay> not even in the about bow?
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> ok
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> in the about :)
[15:52] <BBB-[away]> lol
[15:52] <wtay> BBB-[away]: name, email?
[15:53] <BBB-[away]> Ronald Bultje, <rb...@ro...>
[15:54] <wtay> ok
[15:54] <BBB-[away]> ps, I promised Erik I would try to fix the fact that=
 it doesn't go back to zero, so maybe I'll submit another patch to you to=
day :)
[15:54] <BBB-[away]> maybe I can actually get it to work :)
[15:55] <wtay> BBB-[away]: ok commited (be sure to press about) <g>
[15:55] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:56] <BBB-[away]> I'll download the newest CVS right now :)
[15:56] <wtay> uhmm
[15:56] <BBB-[away]> uhmm?
[15:56] <BBB-[away]> not good?
[15:57] <wtay> hmm, no I didn't see you name in about... it used another =
.glade file I guess...
[15:57] <BBB-[away]> uhm
[15:58] <BBB-[away]> the glade file is adapted here :)
[15:58] <wtay> I have tons of gstreamer dirs so...
[15:58] <BBB-[away]> uhm
[15:58] <BBB-[away]> :)
[15:59] <BBB-[away]> ok
[15:59] <BBB-[away]> hm
[15:59] <BBB-[away]> ./configure--ing right now :)
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> > This patch is now The Right Way(tm) to handle the =
stop button but at
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> > least it doesn't crash...
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> >=20
[16:03] <BBB-[away]> s/now/NOT
[16:04] <BBB-[away]> lol!
[16:04] <wtay> right
[16:07] <hadess> "ESR just broke into my house. He's naked, covered in je=
lly and holding a gun along with a copy of ESR's Love Tips :("
[16:08] <BBB-[away]> um........
[16:17] djcb (bi...@29...) left irc: Read error to djcb[=
29dyn1.dh.casema.net]: EOF from client
[16:32] <BBB-[away]> I'm kinda wondering what actually happens - it seems=
 like the thread itself is shut down when you run into gst_play_stop();
[16:32] <BBB-[away]> because it just ... stops
[16:32] <BBB-[away]> :)
[16:36] <wtay> the thread should just wait until going to NULL state at w=
hich point it stops
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> :)
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> it doesn't
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> even if I literally set it to paused - so GTK_STATE_=
PAUSED and GST_PLAY_PAUSED
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> it still stops the thread and it does not respond to=
 the slider anymore
[16:39] <BBB-[away]> os something in gst_play_stop stops the thread
[16:40] matth-not-listening (ma...@qw...) joined #gstreamer.
[16:40] steveb (st...@no...) joined #gstreamer.
[16:40] U_carting (csc...@c2...) joined #gstreamer.
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> hm........
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> EOS is really a problem
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> in divx, the stop button works okay
[16:56] <wtay> BBB-[away]: yes
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> in vob, too
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> in mpeg, it crashes
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> but eos makes them all either crash or say eos all t=
he time
[16:56] <BBB-[away]> :)
[16:57] <BBB-[away]> so this doesn't really help much :P
[16:59] <wtay> omega is working on the scheduling and events which would =
solve this once and for all
[17:00] <BBB-[away]> so this is a scheduling problem?
[17:00] Action: BBB-[away] finally sees the whole use of the scheduler :)
[17:00] <wtay> yes
[17:01] U_carting (csc...@c2...) left irc: Ping timeou=
t for U_carting[c224s9h5.upc.chello.no]
[17:30] Uraeus (cschalle@212.186.233.224) joined #gstreamer.
[17:59] Action: hadess is packing the geeky t-shirts
[18:04] Action: Uraeus is laughing evily at his latest attempt to curb st=
upid Gnotice flames=20
[18:08] <hadess> Uraeus: for which article ? the Eazel one ?
[18:08] <Uraeus> hadess: yes someone posting as Mariuhana Man was flaming=
 so after he reposted after three deletions I decided to edit instead
[18:09] <hadess> what was the flame ?
[18:10] <Uraeus> hadess: Eazel suck, Eazel is Evil, I will use KDE from n=
ow on as so on.
[18:10] <hadess> jada, jada, jada
[18:10] <Uraeus> hadess: hope he is happy with his new post :)
[18:11] <Uraeus> aaargh, he has reposted again
[18:12] <hadess> 3 comments from him on this page
[18:14] <Uraeus> haddes: well the two at the bottom is the ones I have ed=
ited
[18:16] <Uraeus> problem is that I can't continue with this deltion/editi=
ng crap, if he continue to repost I guess I have to let it stand
[18:17] <hadess> my turn =3D)
[18:17] <wtay> tss... kids...
[18:18] <wtay> and I thought Nautilus was comming along nicely..=20
[18:19] <Uraeus> me too
[18:20] <Uraeus> aah, it seems he finally stopped
[18:22] <wtay> food...
[18:22] Nick change: wtay -> wtay-food
[18:24] <steveb> Uraeus: tee hee
[18:24] <hadess> Uraeus: I've posted a comment as well...
[18:38] <Uraeus> hadess: thanks
[18:40] <Uraeus> heh, that reponse from pinky to morgoth was kinda nice :=
)
[18:46] <hadess> morgoth's a real troll
[18:47] <Uraeus> yup, as pinky said with friends like that who needs enem=
ies
[18:49] <Uraeus> for some reason do people leave common decency behind wh=
en going online
[18:52] <hadess> that's "common sense" and "decency" =3D)
[18:53] <Uraeus> hehe
[18:55] <Uraeus> sorry, I get very sloppy with my english when I am onlin=
e
[18:57] <hadess> heh, mine's not really better when i'm talking face to f=
ace
[18:58] <hadess> sometimes i talk like i'm a native, sometimes it's like =
i just arrived with the rest of the boat-people
[18:59] <Uraeus> well while I think I speak english which native-english =
speakers easily can understand, there is no doubt that I am not a native =
english speaker :)
[18:59] <hadess> if you understand them well also, that's good
[19:00] greg_ (gr...@ho...) joined #gstreamer.
[19:00] <Uraeus> think I do, except some dialects like texan or highland =
scottish which I really have concentrate on
[19:01] <hadess> haha, you don't have to go that far north not to underst=
and anything
[19:01] <hadess> even yorkshire (leeds, manchester, sheffield) is enough
[19:02] <Uraeus> no doubt ;)
[19:02] <hadess> i was with a friend from brighton up there, and i didn't=
 get anything this lady was saying, and i thought it came from me
[19:02] <hadess> but my mate didn't get anything either =3D)
[19:03] <Uraeus> hehe
[19:44] greg_ (gr...@ho...) left irc: [x]chat
[19:57] dobey (dobey@141.154.95.104) joined #gstreamer.
[19:57] <hadess> hey dobey
[19:57] <dobey> yo
[19:58] <wtay-food> hi
[19:58] Nick change: wtay-food -> wtay
[19:58] <dobey> sup?
[19:59] <wtay> XFlush issues...
[19:59] <Uraeus> flame issues
[19:59] <wtay> or something...
[20:00] Nick change: aj_zzzz -> ajmitch
[20:00] <ajmitch> hi
[20:00] <Uraeus> hi ajmitch
[20:02] <wtay> yo ajmitch
[20:02] <ajmitch> what're ppl up to?
[20:02] <wtay> trying to get X videosink working
[20:03] <wtay> it works smoothly with mpeg2parse but it stutters with gst=
mediaplay
[20:03] <ajmitch> ah..
[20:06] <ajmitch> you seen the messages on kde-multimedia lately?
[20:07] <wtay> yes
[20:07] <ajmitch> Njaard acting as stoopid as always...
[20:09] <wtay> WildFox (aRts developer) came by a few hours ago to talk a=
bout cooperation...
[20:09] <ajmitch> cool
[20:09] <dobey> omg
[20:09] <ajmitch> wish i had been here, i've talked to him a bit
[20:09] <wtay> yeah, check out the IRC logs
[20:10] <wtay> no real plans yet
[20:10] Action: ajmitch scrolls up...
[20:11] <Uraeus> wtay: you are SO unethical :)
[20:11] <Uraeus> wtay: cooperating with you would be a sellout
[20:12] <Uraeus> rofl
[20:12] <ajmitch> lol
[20:12] <wtay> hehehe
[20:12] <wtay> I'm am obsessed by money... :)
[20:12] djcb (bi...@29...) joined #gstreamer.
[20:12] <dobey> so get a job
[20:12] <wtay> only thing on my mind... I'd love to be a sellout
[20:13] <wtay> dobey: I have
[20:13] <dobey> there are things better than money
[20:14] <Uraeus> dobey: yes, but sex relates little to GStreamer developm=
ent
[20:14] <dobey> so does money
[20:14] <dobey> it IS GPL
[20:15] omega (om...@om...) joined #gstreamer.
[20:15] <dobey> and it's not like your full-time job is to hack gstreamer
[20:15] <BBB-[away]> omega!!!
[20:16] <Uraeus> dobey: I doubt omega agrees with you on that :)
[20:16] omega-europe (om...@om...) left irc: Ping timeout for omega=
-europe[omegacs.net]
[20:16] wtay (wi...@ca...) left irc: Ping tim=
eout for wtay[cable-195-162-214-198.upc.chello.be]
[20:16] <dobey> what?
[20:16] <Uraeus> dobey: he works fulltime on gstreamer
[20:16] <djcb> omega: got my mail?
[20:17] <dobey> Uraeus: oh, who pays for it then?
[20:17] <Uraeus> dobey: ridgerun
[20:18] <dobey> Uraeus: besides, i wasn't talking about omega, i was talk=
ing about everyone that hacks on it fool
[20:19] <Uraeus> dobey: don't get aggresive I thought we where having a l=
ight hearted discussion sorry if I misread you
[20:19] <dobey> heh, that isn't aggressive, you should have seen me pound=
ing the ydl people yesterday
[20:19] wtay (wim@195.162.214.198) joined #gstreamer.
[20:20] <Uraeus> :)
[20:20] <wtay> uhm
[20:20] <dobey> doing rpm --rebuild on someone elses rpms does not consti=
tute your own distro, jesus christ
[20:21] <Uraeus> heh
[20:21] <Uraeus> another redhat ripoff?
[20:21] ajmitch (me@203.173.238.141) left irc: Read error to ajmitch[203.=
173.238.141]: Connection reset by peer
[20:21] <dobey> yes, they just rebuilt the rh7 srpms
[20:22] ajmitch (me...@p1...) joined #gstreamer.
[20:23] <Uraeus> dobey: I hope they did a s/RedHat/ydl/g at least, or whe=
re they even cheaper?
[20:23] <dobey> probably cheaper
[20:23] <dobey> and they used rawhide rpms too, so openssl is totally fuc=
ked in it
[20:24] <dobey> because the so number was upped to .1 in the rawhide pack=
age
[20:24] <dobey> stupid people
[20:24] <Uraeus> ah
[20:25] <dobey> they were all saying 0.9.6 isn't bincompat with 0.9.5a, b=
ecause it says that in the .spec file's changelog, when it is bincompat
[20:26] <wtay> omega: ?
[20:31] ajmitch (me...@p1...) left irc: Read error to ajm=
itch[p13-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz]: EOF from client
[20:32] <Uraeus> wtay: are you sure this omega is 'our
[20:32] <Uraeus> ' omega?
[20:32] ajmitch (me...@p1...) joined #gstreamer.
[20:34] <wtay> yeah, it's the autoconnect feature of XChat..
[20:35] <ajmitch> damned xchat
[20:39] <ajmitch> bye
[20:40] <wtay> cya
[20:40] <hadess> ciao
[20:40] ajmitch (me...@p1...) left irc: http://www.freede=
velopers.net
[21:27] <hadess> night wtay
[21:27] hadess (ha...@pc...) left irc: sleep
[21:28] djcb (bi...@29...) left irc:=20
[21:49] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) left irc: [x]chat
[22:08] WildFox (nikoz@62.224.244.185) joined #gstreamer.
[22:08] <WildFox> hi again
[22:08] <WildFox> wtay: ther?
[22:08] <wtay> hello
[22:08] <WildFox> cool
[22:08] <WildFox> you are subscribed to kde-multimedia?
[22:08] <dobey> hrmm
[22:09] Action: dobey runs away
[22:09] <wtay> WildFox: nope
[22:09] <wtay> should I?
[22:09] <WildFox> not really
[22:09] <WildFox> i just want to verify one thing
[22:09] djcb (bi...@29...) joined #gstreamer.
[22:09] <wtay> not that I don't want to :)
[22:09] <WildFox> could you read a mail for me pls ?
[22:09] <wtay> sure
[22:10] <WildFox> <- just wanna be sure that i didn't write complete tras=
h
[22:10] <WildFox> :)
[22:10] <WildFox> better /query
[22:10] <WildFox> or public?
[22:11] <wtay> you decide=20
[22:11] <WildFox> On Sunday 01 April 2001 21:51, Charles Samuels wrote:
[22:11] <WildFox> > I'll tell you why I oppose this.
[22:11] <WildFox>  >
[22:11] <WildFox>  > If we use gstreamer, gstreamer will be standard, GNO=
ME will use gstreamer
[22:11] <WildFox>  > instead of arts, and then eventually we're going to =
have to switch to
[22:11] <WildFox>  _NO_!
[22:11] <WildFox>  you are completly wrong, Charles
[22:11] <WildFox> =20
[22:11] <WildFox> i talked with one of the gstreamer core devs!
[22:11] <WildFox>  they do _NOT_ wanna create their own soundserver...
[22:11] <WildFox>  if they ie. need audio they paste it to esd/arts (in f=
uture)
[22:11] <WildFox>  that dev also voted for aRts being the standard!
[22:11] <WildFox>  so do _NOT_ mix them up
[22:11] <WildFox> =20
[22:11] <WildFox> he also told me that gstreamer "just" handles the commu=
nication
[22:11] <WildFox>  within the plugins at all....
[22:11] <WildFox>  > gstreamer instead of arts, because of gnome's famed =
FUD-machine.
[22:11] <WildFox>  >
[22:11] <WildFox>  > And I do NOT want to switch to gstreamer, since aRts=
 is clearly superior,
[22:11] <WildFox>  > and much better written.  Read: C++
[22:11] <WildFox>  >
[22:11] <WildFox>  > -Charles
[22:11] <WildFox> ..
[22:12] <WildFox> right or not right ?
[22:12] <dobey> bah
[22:12] <dobey> haha
[22:12] <WildFox> i wrote the answer
[22:12] <WildFox> don't be frightend
[22:12] <WildFox> that's one of the devs
[22:12] <dobey> frightened?
[22:12] <Uraeus> WildFox: what exactly is GNOME's famous FUD machine?
[22:12] <WildFox> btw
[22:12] <WildFox> don't ask me
[22:12] <dobey> <- very far from frightened
[22:12] <WildFox> i am no GNOME flamer
[22:12] <dobey> Uraeus: esd probably
[22:12] <WildFox> i like both projects, KDE and GNOME
[22:13] <wtay> thinking...
[22:13] <Uraeus> dobey: yes ESD is so bad it is FUD in itself :)
[22:13] <wtay> I tend to agree
[22:13] <wtay> ..communication "between" plugins might be better
[22:13] <dobey> Uraeus: bah, esd works for me
[22:14] <WildFox> good
[22:14] <wtay> WildFox: omega is the project leader, I'm not sure what he=
 thinks about all this
[22:14] <WildFox> wtay: that's what i actually meant
[22:15] <wtay> ok
[22:15] <WildFox> oh
[22:15] <WildFox> i said one of them
[22:15] <WildFox> you are
[22:15] <WildFox> one
[22:15] <WildFox> hmm
[22:15] <WildFox> i invite that person
[22:15] <wtay> I have much less vision then omega has...
[22:15] Njaard (cha...@ar...) joined #gstreamer.
[22:15] <WildFox> Charles will come
[22:15] <WildFox> :)
[22:15] <Njaard> charles will come
[22:15] <wtay> yo Njaard
[22:15] <dobey> oh god
[22:15] <WildFox> Njaard: hi
[22:15] <Njaard> hi :)
[22:16] <Uraeus> hi Njaard
[22:16] <WildFox> Njaard: here are the famous core-dev's i speakt of :)
[22:16] <WildFox> s/speakt/spoke/
[22:16] <wtay> WildFox: this channel is logged, omega will read it too...
[22:16] <WildFox> wtay: good!
[22:16] <Njaard> er, ok
[22:16] <dobey> wildfox/njaard: what countries are you from?
[22:16] <WildFox> dobey: Germany
[22:16] Action: dobey just curious
[22:16] <WildFox> you ?
[22:16] <dobey> us
[22:17] <WildFox> ah
[22:17] <Njaard> dobey: I'm in the states too
[22:17] <Njaard> well, re. WildFox's email, why doesn't gstreamer just, e=
r, merge with arts? ;)
[22:17] <dobey> Njaard: are you a kde hax0r?
[22:18] <WildFox> yep he is
[22:18] <Njaard> being that arts has the design, and gstreamer has the sp=
eed, and we need more developers big time :)
[22:18] <Njaard> dobey: hax0r is right ;)
[22:18] <WildFox> yep
[22:18] <wtay> Njaard: yeah why don't you code it? :-)
[22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: i sayed that!
[22:18] <dobey> jesus, i can see this is gonna go nowhere
[22:18] <WildFox> but
[22:18] <WildFox> ask themself
[22:18] <Njaard> wtay: I'm only one man :)
[22:18] <wtay> me too...
[22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: as i said
[22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: first we need an arts plugin system
[22:19] <Njaard> arts HAS a plugin system
[22:19] <WildFox> why not use gstreamers?
[22:19] <WildFox> would be great
[22:19] <WildFox> so ?
[22:19] <WildFox> it's more frickled than stable
[22:19] <Njaard> so why not get the gstreamer developers to optimize the =
arts archetecture
[22:19] <Njaard> arts is plenty stable
[22:19] <WildFox> wow
[22:19] <Njaard> not to mention much better designed
[22:19] <wtay> Njaard: I'm not a C++ man...
[22:19] <WildFox> oh oh oh
[22:19] Action: WildFox silent
[22:19] Action: Njaard notes that he feels funny talking about this here =
:)
[22:20] <Njaard> wtay: it's not very difficult :)
[22:20] <WildFox> more easy, i'd say=20
[22:20] <wtay> Njaard: I know, I did some projects in it, I just don't li=
ke it
[22:20] Action: dobey notes not to install kde, ever, again
[22:20] <Njaard> no, you don't know it
[22:20] Action: Njaard is hardly an average KDE developer
[22:20] <Njaard> I'm much more mean
[22:20] Action: Uraeus notes the degree of diplomacy here is impressive :=
)
[22:20] <WildFox> dobey: hm
[22:20] <Njaard> and I've been very bitter lately
[22:20] <WildFox> dobey: you can use GNOME
[22:20] <Njaard> so WildFox really chose the wrong person :)
[22:21] <WildFox> ;)
[22:21] <WildFox> stw's not there
[22:21] <WildFox> and _THAT_ would be a real war then
[22:21] <WildFox> :)
[22:21] <Njaard> hehe
[22:21] <Njaard> you folks wouldn't stand a chance ;)
[22:21] <WildFox> arts will be standard in GNOME in near future, dobey
[22:21] <Uraeus> actually you are aware that Stefan is speaking at GUADEC=
?
[22:21] <WildFox> yes
[22:21] <WildFox> he'll present aRts
[22:21] Action: Njaard beats up DMA
[22:21] <wtay> aRts is for audio...
[22:22] <dobey> WildFox: where did you get this info?
[22:22] <WildFox> yes
[22:22] <Njaard> aRts is extendible
[22:22] <Njaard> (very)
[22:22] <WildFox> that's the problem
[22:22] <Njaard> shit
[22:22] <WildFox> dobey: gnome dev @ cebit
[22:22] Action: Njaard accidentally exited noatun
[22:22] <wtay> aRts handles plugins at a very low level
[22:22] <WildFox> Njaard: hehe
[22:22] <dobey> my god you people are silly
[22:22] <Njaard> you see, I had it running for a couple days
[22:22] <wtay> like: add two samples and stuff
[22:22] <WildFox> Njaard: hehe
[22:22] <vektor> njaard!
[22:22] <WildFox> wtay: and?
[22:22] <vektor> sup dude?
[22:22] <WildFox> huh
[22:23] <WildFox> you know each other? :)
[22:23] Action: dobey notes he will never use arts
[22:23] <Njaard> because the binary I had installed had been more recent =
compiles :)
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: !!!!
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: ouf-oh
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: where've you been buddy? :)
[22:23] <wtay> GStreamer is more high level...
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: that's a big flame now
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: why do you say that?
[22:23] <vektor> Njaard: I've been doing dvd stuff man.
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: niice :)
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: if gstreamer + arts is "merged" what then?
[22:23] <Njaard> vektor: /me mentions something about an arts playobject
[22:23] <WildFox> dobey: you wouldn#t use it
[22:23] <dobey> WildFox: because like distros, all current audio servers =
suck
[22:23] <dobey> not arts, no
[22:23] <WildFox> no
[22:23] <WildFox> ever tried arts?
[22:24] <Njaard> programming for it is nice
[22:24] <Njaard> it'd be even nicer of stw wrote, er, docs :)
[22:24] <dobey> besides, if you want to uses gstreamer on arts, write a f=
reakin plugin for gstreamer to output to arts
[22:24] <vektor> dobey: can you spell latency?
[22:24] <wtay> dobey: yes
[22:24] <dobey> it's not like you need to combine the two here
[22:24] <WildFox> no
[22:24] <WildFox> that would be fscking syncing problems
[22:24] <WildFox> think about it
[22:24] <WildFox> gstreamer playing sound
[22:24] <WildFox> ermm
[22:24] <WildFox> gstreamer playing video
[22:24] <dobey> vektor: can you spell extensibility and componentization?
[22:24] <WildFox> but routing sound to arts
[22:24] <WildFox> *OUF*
[22:24] <WildFox> no sync at all
[22:24] <dobey> latency my ass
[22:25] <Njaard> no, arts can play video, it is THAT extensible
[22:25] <wtay> WildFox: no prob, the samples have a timestamp
[22:25] <WildFox> wtay: let's say arts lags horrible
[22:25] <WildFox> what then?
[22:25] <wtay> both sink play the media at the given time
[22:25] <vektor> dobey: Sorry dude, if you're writing a multitracker, you=
 want both lots of plugins, and low latency.  That means choosing one plu=
gin architecture.
[22:25] Action: dobey notes a "low-end" computer is a pIII 500 with 128Mb=
 ram, and a sound blaster live
[22:25] <WildFox> wtay: grml
[22:25] <wtay> WildFox: make it lag less then
[22:25] <WildFox> so
[22:25] <WildFox> and that's why we ask you :)
[22:25] <vektor> dobey: Have you ever tried to write, say, a MIDI sequenc=
er using a P3-733?  You still care about latency.
[22:25] <WildFox> you have the speed
[22:26] <wtay> WildFox: we don't hav anything that requires low latency
[22:26] <WildFox> less dropouts?
[22:26] <dobey> vektor: the amount of latency that will occur will be so =
minute it's not noticeable
[22:27] <WildFox> Njaard: but you have to say that mpeglib is _frickled_ =
into aRts
[22:27] Action: dobey notes he listens to oggs at 250kbps over nfs in xmm=
s with non-noticeable latency
[22:27] <Njaard> what is frickled? :)
[22:27] <dobey> OUTPUTTING TO ESD
[22:27] <Njaard> dobey: NFS buffers
[22:27] <vektor> dobey: There's a big difference between listening to mp3=
s and having something sync to an external MIDI clock dude.
[22:27] <Njaard> so that causes no latency
[22:27] <vektor> dobey: Sorry.
[22:27] <vektor> Anyways, I shouldn't have brought that up.
[22:27] <wtay> ont thing at a time
[22:28] <wtay> s/ont/one
[22:28] <Njaard> aRts can do MIDI hardware input, with a plugin
[22:28] <Njaard> (!)
[22:28] <dobey> vektor: and where do external midi clocks come in to a fr=
eakin sound server on which the primary goal is to watch dvds and listen =
to internet audio?
[22:28] <vektor> Njaard: I don't know why you don't like gstreamer :)
[22:28] <wtay> we can't do that yet
[22:28] <Njaard> vektor: I hate anything with a G
[22:28] <Njaard> and writing anything like this in C is stupid, when you =
have C++
[22:28] <vektor> Njaard: And I think you should grow up.
[22:28] <vektor> Njaard: Big time.
[22:28] <dobey> my god i always get bombarded by ignorant people
[22:28] <Njaard> vektor: I was kidding about the G, actually ;)
[22:29] <vektor> dobey: Well, aRts for one is built with latency in mind.=
  gstreamer isn't.
[22:29] <dobey> bah, gstreamer is also not part of kde 2 or gnome 1.4 for=
 a reason
[22:29] <vektor> In fact, the two are completely orthogonal.
[22:29] Action: Njaard mentions the Rt in aRts :)
[22:29] <Uraeus> people, please keep the advocacy switch off, in this cro=
wd it is worthless
[22:29] Action: dobey goes back to gnome 1.4
[22:29] <wtay> we hope to avoid it at some point by optimising data trans=
fer and writing straight to the DMA buffers
[22:30] <Njaard> Uraeus: s/people/Njaard/ :)
[22:30] <vektor> Does gstreamer want to become a sound server?
[22:30] <wtay> I think aRts is similar to overflow
[22:30] <vektor> Or, just a codec engine?
[22:30] <Uraeus> Njaard: I was trying to be diplomatic :)
[22:30] <vektor> I was under the impression gstreamer was mostly a codec =
architecture.
[22:31] <wtay> more like scheduling middleware
[22:31] <Njaard> Uraeus: oh, ok :)
[22:31] <dobey> gstreamer is not intended to be a sound server
[22:31] <vektor> Right.
[22:31] <dobey> that is pretty obvious
[22:31] <wtay> indeed
[22:31] <vektor> So, then it's perfect for having as an input to aRts, wh=
ich is a sound server.
[22:31] <wtay> not for me anyway
[22:31] <vektor> End of discussion.
[22:31] <vektor> Right?
[22:31] <dobey> you people are rediculously arguing over something non-im=
portant
[22:31] <wtay> vektor: problem solved <g>
[22:32] <vektor> Sorry, I kinda jumped into this discussion when I saw Nj=
aard. :)
[22:32] <dobey> god, kde-* lists are almost as bad as debian-devel
[22:32] <wtay> seriously, I would give a aRts plugin in gstreamer a shot =
myself...
[22:33] <Njaard> vektor: heh
[22:33] <Njaard> vektor: are you with gstreamer?
[22:33] <wtay> xmms was pretty easy to assimilate
[22:33] <dobey> just write the plugin and quit whining
[22:33] <WildFox> dobey: hey
[22:33] <vektor> Njaard: No, I'm with 'exams' right now.
[22:33] <Njaard> vektor: fun :)
[22:33] <vektor> Sure.
[22:33] <WildFox> dobey: aren't you flaming ?
[22:33] <dobey> WildFox: not yet
[22:33] <WildFox> dobey: you always say something for _ALL_ kde*
[22:34] <wtay> and then write an aRts plugin using gstreamer...
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: did i say anything rude against GNOME ?
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: no
[22:34] <Njaard> why not write an arts plugin that can load gstreamer plu=
gins
[22:34] <dobey> i'm just saying you people are so worried about shit that=
 makes absolutely no sense
[22:34] <Njaard> wouldn't that make much more sense?
[22:34] <Njaard> not to mention faster
[22:34] <dobey> Njaard: god you're sick
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: ie?
[22:34] <wtay> Njaard: could do that
[22:34] <vektor> Njaard: Sure, why not?  You're the one who flamed this i=
dea on kde-multimedia.
[22:34] <WildFox> dobey: WHAT?
[22:34] <WildFox> whop
[22:34] <dobey> let's just write a moniker for kparts to load gstreamer p=
lugins
[22:34] <WildFox> s/WHAT/what/
[22:34] <Njaard> I flame any idea that begins with a G ;)
[22:35] <WildFox> it's actually better to load gstreamer plugins
[22:35] Action: Njaard needs to stop with that
[22:35] <wtay> GNU?
[22:35] <dobey> Njaard: figures
[22:35] <vektor> wtay: njaard doesn't like GNU either.
[22:35] <WildFox> instead of creating a playobject-wrapper
[22:35] <WildFox> . . .
[22:35] <WildFox> imho
[22:35] <Njaard> dobey: arts is unrelated to kparts
[22:35] <Njaard> arts just links to libstdc++
[22:35] <dobey> just go back to using windows and media player
[22:35] <dobey> god
[22:35] <WildFox> huh ?
[22:35] <WildFox> calm down, guy
[22:35] <WildFox> we want a constructive discussion
[22:36] <WildFox> no war
[22:36] <Njaard> not me :)
[22:36] <WildFox> am i right ?
[22:36] <Njaard> I want it destructive
[22:36] <Njaard> as destructive as possible
[22:36] <WildFox> ?*
[22:36] <Njaard> :D
[22:36] <WildFox> gr
[22:36] <Njaard> heh
[22:36] <dobey> Njaard: yeah, i can see, you must just be a german living=
 in america
[22:36] <wtay> I wanna create a gst plugin using aRts to handle the audio=
..
[22:36] <Njaard> dobey: I'm not :)
[22:36] <WildFox> dobey: ah and now you say sth. agains me ?
[22:36] <WildFox> nice
[22:36] <WildFox> wtay. good one
[22:36] <dobey> god lighten up people
[22:37] <dobey> wtay: good, end of discussion, problem solved, everyone c=
an go home now
[22:37] <Uraeus> WildFox: I think 'cooperation' will hapen due to individ=
ual effort, for our part a aRTS plugin is planned
[22:37] <Njaard> well, personally, in *my opinion* gsteamer is useless, d=
ue to aRts
[22:37] <WildFox> not at all
[22:37] <WildFox> just one point
[22:37] <dobey> yeah, well, arts is useless too
[22:37] <Njaard> in your opinion :)
[22:37] <vektor> Njaard: Why?
[22:37] <Uraeus> Njaard: yes, and in our opinion aRTS is redundant :)
[22:37] <WildFox> we didn'T rewrite arts core to be _PURE_ c++
[22:37] <WildFox> so that nobody uses it
[22:38] <wtay> Njaard: in my opinion both projects have different goals s=
o they can both coexist
[22:38] <Njaard> well, aRts does what gstreamer does, and more
[22:38] <Njaard> now, I admit, aRts isn't as mature as gstreamer
[22:38] <Njaard> but only because it's trying to do more
[22:38] <dobey> oh my god
[22:38] <Uraeus> Njaard: like what?
[22:38] <Njaard> wtay: I see aRts as a superset of gstreamer
[22:38] Action: dobey gets the cluestick ready
[22:38] <Njaard> Uraeus: like what of what specifically?
[22:38] <dobey> or the LART-gun, whichever you prefer
[22:38] <Njaard> lart gun would be nice
[22:38] <Njaard> :)
[22:39] <wtay> Njaard: tell me how you are going to handle the different =
media formats for example
[22:39] <dobey> would you like it in the head, the chest, or elsewhere?
[22:39] <Njaard> wtay: well, aRts already can play: mpeg-1, mpeg-2 (lousi=
ly), mikmod, modplug, mp3, oggvorbis
[22:39] <Uraeus> WildFox: I don't think bringing Njaard here was a big st=
ep forward :)
[22:39] <Njaard> writing mikmod one, for example, was an evening, and bou=
t 200LOC
[22:39] Action: Njaard tends to agree with Uraeus
[22:39] <WildFox> Uraeus: yep :/
[22:40] <WildFox> Uraeus: i hoped it would be
[22:40] <WildFox> hope_D_
[22:40] <WildFox> :)
[22:40] <dobey> so let's get rid of him
[22:40] vektor_ (ve...@HS...) joined #gs=
treamer.
[22:40] <Njaard> now you've just given up
[22:40] <Njaard> heh
[22:40] <dobey> Njaard: nah, i gave up on you way before
[22:40] <Njaard> heh
[22:40] <Njaard> well, you know where to reach me for flames.
[22:40] Njaard (cha...@ar...) left #gstreamer (KVirc 2=
.1.0 '3 megabytes and growing').
[22:41] <WildFox> shit
[22:41] <WildFox> sorry guys
[22:41] <WildFox> i really thought he would be constructive
[22:41] <Uraeus> give up? I think convincing the Afgan government to save=
 Budhas is easier than having a pragmatic conversation with Njaard=20
[22:41] <wtay> no prob
[22:41] <Uraeus> :)
[22:41] <dobey> haha
[22:41] <wtay> Uraeus: hehe
[22:42] Action: dobey tends to ignore kde people
[22:42] <dobey> at least irl anywya
[22:42] <WildFox> ouf
[22:42] <wtay> let's pretend he enjoys himself...
[22:42] <WildFox> that's shit
[22:42] <WildFox> don't ignore me :)
[22:42] wtay (wim@195.162.214.198) left irc: Read error to wtay[195.162.2=
14.198]: EOF from client
[22:42] <dobey> why not? you use kde
[22:42] <Uraeus> WildFox: I think what you where trying to do was good, b=
ut know that many has failed before you :(
[22:42] wtay (wi...@ca...) joined #gstreamer.
[22:42] <wtay> uhm
[22:42] <WildFox> dobey: ?
[22:43] <WildFox> you ignore me for using kde ?
[22:43] <WildFox> you ignore me for using kde ? (!)
[22:43] <wtay> WildFox: you're one of the good guys :)
[22:43] <dobey> WildFox: sure, why not?
[22:43] <WildFox> wtay: :)
[22:43] <WildFox> wtay: you too ;)
[22:43] <Uraeus> WildFox: don't take dobey to seriously we don't :)
[22:43] <WildFox> good
[22:43] <WildFox> :)
[22:43] <dobey> Uraeus: if you don't now, you will in the future :-)
[22:44] <Uraeus> hehe
[22:44] <dobey> eh, as long as you aren't a troll, i could care less real=
ly
[22:44] <Uraeus> I think writing the aRTS plugin is a nice first step, an=
d a step which the ambition level is within reach
[22:45] <wtay> Uraeus: yes
[22:45] <Uraeus> more abitious targets just end up in demotivating flamew=
ars
[22:46] <dobey> yeah, they do if you tell people about them
[22:46] <wtay> is aRts C++?
[22:46] <dobey> anyone using icewm?
[22:46] <wtay> stupid question...
[22:46] <dobey> wtay: yes, sadly enough all of kde is
[22:46] <Uraeus> wtay: yes
[22:47] <wtay> might be a nice idea to actually try a C++ plugin in gstre=
amer...
[22:48] <dobey> wtay: realmedia would be a good one to go with...
[22:48] <Uraeus> or maybe the aRTS plugin itself
[22:48] <Uraeus> WildFox: is the C api for aRTS ready?
[22:49] <wtay> Uraeus: I have more confidence in gstreamer using aRts the=
n vise versa
[22:49] <Uraeus> WildFox: since I seem to rember one being made
[22:49] <Uraeus> wtay: that my friend is my belief too :)
[22:50] <dobey> yes, they are ass-backward
[22:50] <wtay> Uraeus: we are so civilized aren't we? :-)
[22:50] <WildFox> yep
[22:50] <WildFox> it is ready
[22:50] <Uraeus> dobey: you can stop flaming now Njaard has left :)
[22:51] <WildFox> c++ is that easy
[22:51] <WildFox> just a question
[22:51] <WildFox> why do you use C ?
[22:51] <dobey> Uraeus: i wasn't flaming fool, i'm saying all the kde-ana=
l people want to do things wrong
[22:51] <WildFox> ethic ?
[22:51] <Uraeus> WildFox: it was co-developed between Stefan and Tim wasn=
't it?
[22:51] <WildFox> Tim ?
[22:51] Action: dobey notes kparts doesn't even have an out-of-process co=
mponent system
[22:51] <WildFox> stefan...yes
[22:51] <Uraeus> TIm Janik
[22:51] <wtay> WildFox: probably because we all think C++ sucks
[22:51] <WildFox> dobey: ?
[22:51] <WildFox> dobey: and that is ?
[22:51] <WildFox> wtay: ok why
[22:52] <dobey> WildFox: the component being run in a separate process
[22:52] <Uraeus> urk, please not a language discussion
[22:52] <wtay> WildFox: C++ is a OO hacked version of C
[22:52] <WildFox> hmm
[22:52] <WildFox> but it makes things easier
[22:52] <WildFox> ok
[22:52] <WildFox> that's enough, right
[22:52] <Uraeus> wtay, Wildfox: lets compromise, rewrite both GNOME and K=
DE in ObjectiveC
[22:52] <wtay> WildFox: ever done any real OO programming? like Smalltalk=
 or (ouch) JAVA?
[22:52] <WildFox> i don't wanna convert anyone
[22:52] <dobey> easier for certain definition of easy
[22:52] Action: WildFox loves c++ but also does c
[22:53] <wtay> I also like the pure OO features of C++ though
[22:53] <WildFox> classes
[22:53] <WildFox> inheritance
[22:53] <WildFox> ..
[22:53] <dobey> OO is one thing, evil is another
[22:53] <wtay> WildFox: sorta
[22:53] <Uraeus> zzzZZZzZZZzZZZZzzzzz
[22:53] <wtay> WildFox: multiple inheritance is evil
[22:54] <wtay> ...
 
[truncated message content]