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From: <wim...@ch...> - 2001-04-02 04:33:43
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[06:35] Nick change: taaz -> taaz-gone [06:42] ajmitch (me...@p3...) left irc: http://www.freedev= elopers.net [06:49] dobey (dobey@141.154.95.104) joined #gstreamer. [06:52] ArthurDent (cfi...@20....= rcn.com) joined #gstreamer. [07:05] ArthurDent (cfi...@20....= rcn.com) left #gstreamer. [09:14] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) got netsplit. [09:14] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) returned to #gstreamer. [10:54] ajmitch (me...@p1...) joined #gstreamer. [11:17] dobey (dobey@141.154.95.104) left irc: [x]chat [11:18] ajmitch (me...@p1...) left irc: Ping timeout for = ajmitch[p13-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz] [11:18] ajmitch (me@203.173.238.141) joined #gstreamer. [11:21] Nick change: ajmitch -> aj_zzzz [11:27] steveb (st...@no...) joined #gstreamer. [11:50] greg_ (gr...@ho...) joined #gstreamer. [12:53] WildFox (ni...@p3...) joined #gstreamer. [12:54] <WildFox> Hi Guys! [12:54] <WildFox> someone up? [12:59] Action: steveb snores [13:05] <greg_> greg is going to have a walk (it so sunny today) [13:05] Nick change: greg_ -> greg_-walking- [13:06] Nick change: greg_-walking- -> greg_-walking-\ [13:11] Nick change: wtay-snooker -> wtay [13:11] <wtay> yo [13:13] <steveb> hi [13:13] <WildFox> hi [13:13] <WildFox> some devs here? [13:13] <wtay> I sorta do... [13:13] <steveb> so modest [13:13] <WildFox> ah [13:13] <WildFox> i saw your cvs logs wtay:) [13:14] <WildFox> would you answer some questions? [13:14] <WildFox> to me [13:14] <wtay> like 'em ? <g> [13:14] <wtay> sure [13:14] <WildFox> first of all i have to say i'm a KDE multimedia dev [13:14] <wtay> cool [13:14] <WildFox> and we are highly interested in GStreamer [13:14] <WildFox> no fool! [13:14] <wtay> even cooler [13:14] <wtay> damn [13:14] <WildFox> i know it's first april but that's no fool :) [13:15] <wtay> ah [13:15] <wtay> I'm easily fooled =3D-) [13:15] <WildFox> What is with the performance of GStreamer? [13:15] <WildFox> let's say when playing mp3 [13:15] <WildFox> high load? [13:15] <WildFox> dropouts? [13:15] <WildFox> .... [13:15] <wtay> not really [13:15] <wtay> the mp3 plugin is kinda slow [13:16] <wtay> we hacked mpg123 to make it thread safe [13:16] <WildFox> but i like your architecture [13:16] <wtay> ok [13:16] <WildFox> hehe [13:16] <wtay> the core has very low overhead [13:16] <wtay> no real measurements yet [13:16] <WildFox> there's a thread in here now [13:16] <WildFox> kde-multimedia i mean [13:16] <wtay> oh [13:16] <steveb> wtay: I'm working on putting GST_PROPS_FLOAT into gstpro= ps but am coming up against the GINT_TO_GPOINTER stuff - any suggestions [13:16] <WildFox> the author of our mpeglib wants Arts playobjects [13:16] <WildFox> for gstreamer [13:17] <WildFox> so that arts can natively load gstreamer-plugins [13:17] <wtay> great! [13:17] <WildFox> but we have one really big problem [13:17] <wtay> should not be a problem I guess [13:17] <wtay> oh? [13:17] <WildFox> aRts is done by Stefan Westerfeld [13:17] <WildFox> he's the arts hacker [13:17] <WildFox> and all the other ppl _NOT_! [13:17] <WildFox> the arts architecture is good [13:18] <WildFox> but COMPLICATED LIKE HEELL [13:18] <WildFox> i can't hack it that's sure [13:18] <wtay> hmm [13:18] <WildFox> and now we even think about a replacement [13:18] <WildFox> ... [13:18] <WildFox> at least me and another dev [13:18] <wtay> oh? [13:18] <wtay> why is it too complicated? [13:18] <WildFox> hmm [13:18] <WildFox> 1. it can't handle anything else then audio [13:19] Action: wtay never looked at aRts.. [13:19] <wtay> but you had video too IRCC [13:19] <WildFox> 2. it can't play ie. mp3....mpeg...etc nativly [13:19] <WildFox> 3. there is no real plugin system [13:19] <WildFox> we have, yes [13:19] <WildFox> but via mpeglib [13:19] <WildFox> it's a hack [13:19] <WildFox> not clean [13:19] <wtay> oh [13:19] <wtay> no plugin system? [13:19] <WildFox> same would be for arts + gstreamer [13:19] <WildFox> mpeglib has one [13:19] <WildFox> but mpeglib + arts is frickled into each other [13:19] <WildFox> and i must really say [13:20] <WildFox> we have many dropouts when playing :/ [13:20] <WildFox> and i would try to fix [13:20] <WildFox> but too ugly everytinhg [13:20] <wtay> mpeg1 playback in gstreamer is almost perfect.. [13:21] <WildFox> see.=B7 [13:21] <WildFox> that's what i mean [13:21] <WildFox> that's why i'm here :) [13:21] <wtay> only frame dropping and QoS is not implemented yet [13:21] <WildFox> does your core depend on gtk? [13:21] <wtay> for now it still does [13:21] <wtay> we plan to move to glib real soon now [13:22] <WildFox> great [13:22] <wtay> zaheer is going to start on that this or next week [13:22] <WildFox> that's the same thing we did with arts [13:22] <WildFox> arts core is complete c [13:22] <WildFox> w/o qt w/o gtk [13:22] <WildFox> .. [13:22] <wtay> yes [13:22] <wtay> I'm now working on a plain X videosink [13:22] <WildFox> we planned to share with GNOME=20 [13:23] <WildFox> shit is/was/will be [13:23] <wtay> I heard yes.. [13:23] <WildFox> that stefan has no clue about video [13:23] <WildFox> and you are that far [13:23] <WildFox> and the dev's are cool *hehe* :) [13:23] <wtay> :-) [13:23] <WildFox> if you get the rid of gtk in the core we could think of= a nice shared solution [13:23] <WildFox> between KDE and GNOME [13:23] <wtay> well lemme say that we do not interfere with GNOME/aRts pl= ans [13:24] <WildFox> mom [13:24] <WildFox> dict.leo.org :) [13:24] <WildFox> aho [13:24] <WildFox> ok :) [13:25] <WildFox> hm [13:25] <WildFox> but gstreamer has things which are really needed _now_ = which arts hasn't [13:25] <wtay> are you going to be at GUADEC? [13:25] <WildFox> probably no [13:25] <WildFox> but perhaps yes [13:26] <wtay> the aRts presentation is right before the GStreamer presen= tation [13:26] <WildFox> nicest thing [13:26] <WildFox> gstreamer: complete gtk independant [13:26] <WildFox> i think [13:26] <wtay> yes that's the idea [13:26] <WildFox> arts has the more flexible core [13:26] <WildFox> gstreamer the pluginsystem + nice plugins [13:26] <WildFox> very nice plugins :) [13:26] <wtay> zaheer *needs* this RSN because he's doing a media server = and he doesn't want X on it [13:27] <WildFox> if we could merge the projecs somehow [13:27] <WildFox> that would be very great [13:27] <WildFox> GNOME+KDE shared Audio implementation [13:27] <WildFox> sounds nice, eh? [13:27] <wtay> very [13:27] <WildFox> as arts doesn't depend on qt [13:27] <WildFox> and gstreamer also not [13:27] <WildFox> that would be possible [13:27] <WildFox> <- brb [13:27] <wtay> why is the aRts core more flexible? [13:29] <WildFox> hmm [13:29] <WildFox> ever seen artsbuilder? [13:30] <wtay> not sure.. [13:30] <wtay> does it look like gsteditor? [13:30] <wtay> arts.kde.org? [13:30] <WildFox> wait [13:30] <WildFox> i'll give you a screenie [13:30] <WildFox> ok? [13:31] <wtay> sure [13:31] <wtay> a URL preferably [13:31] <wtay> http://www.arts-project.org/ [13:32] <WildFox> yep [13:32] <WildFox> but a new screenie: [13:33] <WildFox> http://wildfox.dyndns.org/images/arts.png [13:34] hadess (ha...@pc...) joined #gstreamer. [13:34] <wtay> hi [13:35] <hadess> hi wtay [13:35] <wtay> WildFox: yup, audio only, at a finer lvere then the gstrea= mer plugins [13:35] <wtay> WildFox: did you see overflow? [13:35] <WildFox> overflow ? [13:36] <wtay> http://freespeech.sourceforge.net/overflow.html [13:36] <WildFox> mom [13:36] <wtay> very similar [13:37] <WildFox> hmm ok [13:37] <wtay> aRts and overflow target the construction of gstreamer plu= gins (at a more detailed level) [13:38] <WildFox> arts existed before gstreamer [13:38] <wtay> yes [13:38] <wtay> with a different goal IMO [13:38] <WildFox> yep [13:38] <WildFox> it's aim was a complete syntesizer [13:38] <WildFox> before [13:38] <wtay> the overflow guys is going to intergrate his stuff too he = said [13:39] <WildFox> ah [13:39] <WildFox> btw [13:39] <wtay> the idea is to use overflow to constuct an element that is= inserted in a gstreamer pipeline [13:39] <WildFox> will gstreamer be GNOME's standard sound system? [13:39] <wtay> aRts would be similar I think [13:39] <wtay> WildFox: undecided [13:39] <hadess> gstreamer is not designed to be a sound system [13:39] <WildFox> not? [13:40] <wtay> we are not promoting it as such [13:40] <hadess> there are great chances that the basic arts will become = the sound server for gnome 2.0, replacing esd [13:40] <wtay> we kinda got sucked into it because our project starts wit= h a 'g' :) [13:40] <WildFox> hehe [13:40] <WildFox> yep [13:40] <WildFox> arts will be KDE's + GNOME's soundserver [13:40] <WildFox> cause it's great [13:40] <WildFox> only missing thing [13:40] <WildFox> only missing things [13:40] <wtay> as I said, we are not interfering with GNOME/aRts plans [13:41] <WildFox> plugin archiecure [13:41] <WildFox> will be done soon [13:41] <WildFox> + ability to use gstreamer plugins [13:41] <wtay> I would not object to an aRts plugin for gstreamer though [13:41] <WildFox> humm [13:41] <WildFox> i don't understand that sentence [13:41] <wtay> as a way to flow the data to aRts [13:41] <WildFox> <- no native english speaker [13:41] <wtay> I mean: [13:41] <wtay> aRts does audio, and it does so very well [13:42] <wtay> gstreamer does a lot more [13:42] <wtay> imagine an mpeg1 player that needs to play sound, gstreame= r routes that to the aRts plugin [13:42] <WildFox> oh [13:42] <WildFox> i won't do that [13:42] <WildFox> think of syncing issues [13:43] <wtay> you do your funky stuff with aRts, while gstreamer does th= e other things it is good at [13:43] <WildFox> i think my idea is the better longtime seen [13:43] <WildFox> merging gstreamer + arts [13:43] <WildFox> the GNOME/KDE Sound System [13:43] <WildFox> no=20 [13:43] <WildFox> even more [13:43] <WildFox> the Linux Sound System [13:44] <WildFox> something like this [13:44] <wtay> and how would you merge them then? [13:44] <WildFox> playing all kinds of audio [13:44] <WildFox> video [13:44] <WildFox> even dvd [13:44] <WildFox> etc.. [13:44] <WildFox> hmm [13:44] <WildFox> the implementation is a completly different point [13:44] <hadess> gstreamer already does that on its own [13:44] <WildFox> yes [13:44] <WildFox> but not things like ...artsbuilder etc.. [13:44] <WildFox> i think gstreamer's core is even better [13:45] <wtay> so what I propose is to take the things of aRts and incorp= orate them in gstreamer [13:45] <WildFox> right [13:45] <WildFox> all the "good" thinks from aRts into gstreamer [13:45] <wtay> incorporating means creating an aRts plugin [13:45] <wtay> in gstreamer [13:45] <WildFox> hmm [13:46] <WildFox> so your project doesn't _WANT_ to be a full featured so= undserver? [13:46] <wtay> nope [13:46] <wtay> can be used for it but it's not the goal IMO [13:46] <WildFox> oh [13:46] <wtay> gstreamer is targetted at large media handling (video edit= ing/audio editing etc..) [13:47] <wtay> render farms etc.. [13:47] <wtay> anything media related [13:47] <WildFox> hmm [13:47] <WildFox> but you would say [13:47] <WildFox> ok we do video [13:47] <WildFox> but for audio we route to arts [13:47] <WildFox> why ? [13:48] <wtay> why would we rebuild aRts? [13:48] <wtay> for audio we route for example to esd.. [13:48] <WildFox> i'd say designing issues [13:49] <wtay> gstreamer is the glue between plugins really, managing sch= eduling and state etc.. [13:49] greg_-walking-\ (gr...@ho...) left irc: [x]chat [13:49] <wtay> it is like a integration middleware [13:49] <WildFox> yes [13:49] <WildFox> so like: [13:49] <WildFox> gstreamer ->>>>>>>>>>> plugin MPEG [13:49] <WildFox> | [13:49] <WildFox> ->>>>>>>>>>>>> plugin aRts [13:50] <WildFox> ... [13:50] <WildFox> but i'd say that's not good [13:50] <wtay> more like: [13:50] <WildFox> better have your own ie. way play object [13:50] <wtay> disksrc->mpg123->aRts [13:50] <wtay> or disksrc->mpg123->aRts->RTPsrc [13:50] <WildFox> huh? [13:50] <WildFox> whats that? [13:51] <wtay> http://gstreamer.net/mpeg2.png [13:51] <wtay> we connect plugins in gstreamer that manipulate the data i= n some way [13:51] <WildFox> ah [13:51] <WildFox> like [13:52] <WildFox> mom [13:52] <wtay> the play_audio element at the end is where audio is render= ed (esd/oss/RTP/aRts,...) [13:52] <WildFox> pitch changer [13:52] <WildFox> | [13:52] <WildFox> WAV PLAY OBJECT -> OUTPUT [13:52] <WildFox> | [13:52] <WildFox> delay changer [13:52] <WildFox> and the scheduling is done by gstreamer? [13:52] <wtay> yes [13:52] <WildFox> hmm [13:52] <WildFox> same like arts [13:53] <wtay> it doesn't care what media it is handling, it just passes = data [13:53] <WildFox> MCOP [13:53] <WildFox> .. [13:53] <WildFox> that's MCOP's aim [13:53] <wtay> CORBA/XML to construct remote piplines [13:54] <WildFox> hmm [13:55] <WildFox> but generally it would be a good idea if arts could "us= e" those gstreamer-plugins [13:55] <wtay> yes [13:55] <wtay> overflow is trying to do the same [13:55] <wtay> you have to make sure you can handle the scheduling though [13:55] <WildFox> yep [13:55] <WildFox> arts can do that [13:55] <WildFox> it does the same [13:55] <hadess> WildFox: have you produced code for arts or another mult= imedia project ? [13:56] <WildFox> hadess: i'm KDE sound developer [13:56] <hadess> ok [13:56] <wtay> gstreamer uses threads and cothreads quite extensively [13:56] <wtay> push and pull based [13:56] <WildFox> stefan westerfeld is at the moment making everything th= read-safe [13:57] <hadess> what a waste... [13:57] <WildFox> hmm ? [13:57] <wtay> hadess: why? [13:57] <WildFox> what do you mean, hadess? [13:57] <hadess> have you seen the gstreamer flame-war on kd-multimedia ? [13:58] <wtay> hadess: done by a signle individual [13:58] <wtay> s/done/started [13:58] <WildFox> i love my mail: [13:58] <WildFox> " [13:58] <WildFox> even mpg123 is better IMHO [13:58] <WildFox> we should _NEVER_ ever do this step! [13:58] <WildFox> pls guys don't even think about it [13:58] <WildFox> =20 [13:58] <WildFox> i think you are absolutly right Charles [13:59] <wtay> there's no need to flame, we should cooperate [13:59] <WildFox> we actually have alternatives! [13:59] <WildFox> Bye [13:59] <WildFox> Bye [13:59] <WildFox> Niko [13:59] <WildFox> " [13:59] <WildFox> have a look at the time [13:59] <WildFox> :))) [13:59] <hadess> http://lists.kde.org/?l=3Dkde-multimedia&m=3D98605060521= 638&w=3D2 [13:59] <WildFox> 01 April 2001 01:15 [13:59] <WildFox> heyx [13:59] <WildFox> charles didn't mean it like this! [13:59] <WildFox> you missunderstood [13:59] <WildFox> April! [14:00] <hadess> hmmm, that's a bad one then [14:00] <hadess> because it could actually be true [14:00] dichro (di...@CP...) joined #gs= treamer. [14:00] <WildFox> no [14:00] <hadess> i remember the april fool's joke "Gimp ported to Win32" = a couple of years ago... [14:01] <WildFox> see dot.kde.org [14:01] <WildFox> we replaced all c++ stuff in KDE with JavaScript [14:01] <WildFox> + HTML [14:01] <WildFox> + QPainter with gecko [14:01] <WildFox> ;)))) [14:01] <dichro> greetings - would this be a bad time for some foolish qu= estions about gstreamer? [14:02] <wtay> dichro: go ahead :) [14:03] <WildFox> hadess: what's your realname? [14:03] <WildFox> if i may ask [14:03] <dichro> it's actually fairly simple :) the context is a webcam -= given a single source and multiple sinks that sink data at variable rate= s, is there an easy way to handle the pipeline/pipeline forking? [14:03] Uraeus (csc...@c2...) joined #gstreamer. [14:03] <wtay> yo [14:03] <Uraeus> hi [14:03] <wtay> dichro: pipeline forking? [14:04] <wtay> dichro: you mean like a media server? [14:04] <dichro> um - attaching two sinks to a single src? can that be do= ne? [14:04] Action: dichro nods [14:04] <wtay> dichro: yes [14:04] <dichro> 'approximately, yes. [14:04] <wtay> dichro: use a tee [14:04] <wtay> dichro: a tee forks the data=20 [14:05] <wtay> dichro: you can request additional pads at runtime [14:05] <dichro> 'how does flow control work if they sink data at differe= nt rates? does it work at all, or does the entire thing block until all o= f the sinks have handled each frame? [14:05] <wtay> dichro: but only when incremental scheduling has been merg= ed... [14:05] <WildFox> hadess wtay: Thank you very much for the talk! [14:05] <wtay> WildFox: no prob [14:05] <WildFox> Bye [14:05] Action: dichro grins [14:05] <hadess> WildFox: good luck with kde =3D) [14:05] <WildFox> thnx :) [14:05] <wtay> dichro: depends on how the sink is made [14:05] WildFox (ni...@p3...) left #gstreamer (*eat*= ). [14:06] <wtay> dichro: I would suggest a threaded setup so the src never = blocks [14:06] <Uraeus> hadess: wildfox wanted to use GStreamer in KDE? [14:06] <wtay> Uraeus: yup [14:06] <Uraeus> wtay: what about aRTS? [14:06] <wtay> Uraeus: assimilated :-) [14:07] <dichro> so - the best thing would be for the sink to grab frames= as far the source can offer them, and just throw them away if it can't d= o anything useful with them? [14:07] <wtay> dichro: exectly [14:07] <Uraeus> good, actually if GNOME used aRTS as a soundserver and K= DE used GStreamer as a multimedia framework that would be really cool [14:07] <wtay> s/exectly/exactly [14:08] <Uraeus> wtay: will he make and aRTS sink from GStreamer? [14:08] <wtay> Uraeus: still investigating [14:08] Action: dichro ponders [14:08] <dichro> wtay: thanks for that, it's simplified the options a gre= at deal :) [14:08] <wtay> dichro: be sure to take a look at zaheer's work [14:09] <wtay> dichro: he's making a media server with gst and RTP [14:09] <dichro> wtay: what and where is that? [14:09] <hadess> Uraeus: lemme show you something [14:09] <wtay> dichro: no URL yet.. not sure where it is [14:09] <wtay> dichro: OpenTeleMedia IIRC [14:09] <dichro> wtay: I think we're aiming at slightly different target = audiences - my goal is firstly to supplant camserv :) [14:10] <wtay> dichro: ok [14:11] <hadess> Uraeus: ? [14:11] <wtay> dichro: how are you going to send out data to the client? [14:11] <dichro> wtay: HTTP. [14:11] <wtay> dichro: ah ok [14:11] <wtay> dichro: need to integrate it into apache then? [14:12] <dichro> wtay: camserv has a cute trick with mixed/x-multipart-re= place, and I presume there's *some* kind of streaming video thing that's = reasonably well suppported somewhere [14:13] <dichro> wtay: possibly - it would be nice, from the perspective = of unified statistics, management and so on. [14:13] <wtay> dichro: what encoding are you going to use then? [14:13] <dichro> wtay: one idea that crossed my mind was a SysV shmem sin= k, and some very simple CGIs that would grab encoded frames out of it [14:14] <dichro> wtay: camserv does multipart/x-mixed-replace with each p= art being a JPEG frame. [14:14] <wtay> dichro: ok cool [14:14] <dichro> wtay: it works really well - but only with netscape. [14:14] <wtay> dichro: hmm [14:14] <hadess> Uraeus: ? [14:14] <Uraeus> hadess [14:14] <Uraeus> I am bakc [14:15] <Uraeus> hadess: ok, what do you have to show me [14:15] <hadess> Uraeus: can you accept the dcc [14:15] <Uraeus> yes [14:16] <Uraeus> hadess: it plays mp3's now? [14:16] <hadess> Uraeus: still not, but it's cddb enabled [14:16] <wtay> dichro: you'll probably need a queue that throws away fram= es when the queue is full... [14:16] <hadess> Uraeus: i need to add the playlist and the library loadi= ng before being able to play mp3s [14:16] <wtay> dichro: th normal queue would blovk [14:16] <Uraeus> hadess: cool, looks nice too. Did you have those bottom = buttons last time you sent me a screenshot? [14:17] <hadess> Uraeus: no [14:17] <Uraeus> hadess: they look great [14:17] Action: dichro nods [14:17] <Uraeus> need to run, going carting [14:17] Nick change: Uraeus -> U_carting [14:17] <dichro> wtay: I'd just about figured out that I'd need to do my = own flow control, the only question is where [14:17] <hadess> U_carting: have fun =3D) [14:18] <dichro> wtay: I could do a single pipeline, grab finished frames= out the end, and manually distribute them out to the sockets (either via= direct network write, or bouncing through shmem out to individual CGIs, = which is another can of flow control worms) [14:19] <dichro> wtay: or I thought that there might have been a way of e= xpressing all of the flow control logic within a pipeline somehow, and I = wouldn't need to write any extra code :) [14:21] <dichro> I guess the other question is - is there any method of s= treaming video that's broadly supported with just a generic browser? [14:21] <wtay> dichro: either way, I think gstreamer can handle the threa= ding stuff too, only problem is the interaction with the CGI stuff [14:21] <wtay> dichro: nope [14:22] <wtay> dichro: jpeg is your only option is you take a regular bro= wser [14:22] <wtay> s/is/if [14:23] Action: dichro nods [14:23] <dichro> No worse off than I am right now, I guess. Pity - I was = getting all excited about subtitle support in mpeg, too. [14:23] <wtay> you might be able to create a HTTPsend plugin in gstreamer= and fork it from apache... [14:24] <wtay> somhow pass it the fd of the incomming connection.. [14:24] <dichro> to be honest, I'm not terribly concerned about the CGI i= nterface - I think that should be fairly easy to do. [14:24] <dichro> wtay: that's one way of doing it - the fd passing overhe= ad would easily be lost in the codec noise [14:25] <wtay> the beauty is that the src can be anything, even MPEG2 wit= h subtitles [14:25] <dichro> wtay: ya, but I want to deliver video + subtitles to the= user :) [14:25] <dichro> wtay: I guess it needs an overlay plugin to mix the two = into a single jpeg image :P [14:25] <dichro> wtay: or does that already exist? [14:25] <wtay> dichro: done already [14:26] Action: dichro laughs [14:26] <dichro> wtay: should have guessed :) [14:26] <wtay> it merges MPEG2 subtitles with any incomming video frame [14:27] <wtay> not very optimal yet because the input pad only handles en= coded MPEG2 subtitles, but hey :) [14:32] <dichro> wtay: thanks for the sage advice, I'll play this week an= d see if I can create something that can stand the light of day. [14:32] <wtay> dichro: heh, ok [14:32] Action: dichro waves [14:32] dichro (di...@CP...) left irc: = Leaving [14:44] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) got netsplit. [14:44] steveb (st...@no...) got netsplit. [14:44] matth-not-listening (ma...@qw...) got netsplit. [14:44] U_carting (csc...@c2...) got netsplit. [14:52] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) returned to #gstreamer. [14:55] matth-not-listening (ma...@qw...) got lost in the ne= t-split. [14:55] steveb (st...@no...) got lost in the net-split. [14:55] U_carting (csc...@c2...) got lost in the net-s= plit. [15:12] djcb (bi...@29...) joined #gstreamer. [15:13] <djcb> omega-europe: ? [15:13] <wtay> djcb: dunno.. [15:14] <djcb> wtay: ok... i need to talk to him about directions [15:14] <djcb> .. of his talk of monday night. [15:15] <wtay> oh [15:15] <djcb> anyway, i'll send him mail. [15:30] <BBB-[away]> wtay: a small change in gstplay to prevent it from c= rashing [15:31] <wtay> BBB-[away]: oooh cool! [15:31] <BBB-[away]> wtay: can you do me a favour and make the changes an= d upload them to CVS? :) [15:31] <wtay> BBB-[away]: sure [15:31] <BBB-[away]> ok [15:31] <BBB-[away]> in gstplay, in the function gst_play_stop() [15:31] <BBB-[away]> you set the state to GST_STATE_NULL, make this GST_S= TATE_READY [15:32] <wtay> ok [15:32] <BBB-[away]> the problem is now that if you press stop or EOF is = reached, it will not go back to zero [15:32] <BBB-[away]> but that's probably a small change to get that to wo= rk too [15:32] <BBB-[away]> :) [15:33] <wtay> logically it should go to NULL... [15:33] <BBB-[away]> with this change, it doesn't crash by default (vob E= OF still crashes and if you press stop here - it DOES go back to zero (?)= , I have no clue why...) [15:33] <wtay> is the problem the fact that the offset cannot be changed = after going to NULL? [15:34] <BBB-[away]> wtay: I'm not completely sure.... I hardly ever look= ed into the source. I made this change yesterday when me and zaheer and e= rik and steve were looking and hacking during our oddesey [15:34] <BBB-[away]> I should actually try to understand the source first= ..... [15:34] <BBB-[away]> :) [15:37] <wtay> BBB-[away]: what did you guys talk about? [15:37] <BBB-[away]> about lots of things [15:37] <BBB-[away]> erik gave a whole description of what needs to be do= ne for the next release [15:37] <BBB-[away]> and I tried to understand some parts of it :) [15:38] <wtay> anything you could remember? <g> [15:38] Action: wtay is curious [15:38] <BBB-[away]> lol [15:38] <BBB-[away]> well, the eos problem :) [15:39] <wtay> yes... <g> [15:39] <BBB-[away]> and also when you have a dual stream pipe and one is= filled with buffer and the other is not, what should it do [15:39] <wtay> yes... and... [15:39] <BBB-[away]> and some structure changes which you should ask erik= about since I don't know much about that [15:39] <BBB-[away]> and he wanted to rewrite something [15:39] <BBB-[away]> he already did it 8 times [15:39] <wtay> the scheduling? [15:39] <BBB-[away]> and now he had to do it again [15:39] <BBB-[away]> because it shouls still be different [15:40] <BBB-[away]> scheduling [15:40] <BBB-[away]> yes [15:40] <wtay> ok same old... [15:40] <BBB-[away]> :) [15:40] <wtay> that's one of the main functionalities of gstreamer [15:41] <BBB-[away]> hm [15:41] <BBB-[away]> it's not as it should be, he said :P [15:41] <wtay> I'm sure it isn't... [15:41] <wtay> it's a hard problem [15:41] <wtay> we know we should have at least 10 rewrites before it's 10= 0% ok [15:42] <BBB-[away]> uhm...... [15:42] <BBB-[away]> what is so hard about it? [15:42] <wtay> EOS, state changes, events etc... [15:42] <BBB-[away]> hm.... [15:42] <BBB-[away]> ok :) [15:42] <wtay> threads, cothreads, chains etc... [15:43] <wtay> lot's of experimentation needed [15:43] <BBB-[away]> hm........ [15:43] <BBB-[away]> too technical for me :P [15:46] <BBB-[away]> ps, tell me if the problem of the eos/stop not going= back to zero is fixed, ok? [15:46] <wtay> BBB-[away]: I slightly modified the state changes it now c= rashes less violently [15:46] <BBB-[away]> so I can re-test my own movies :P [15:46] <BBB-[away]> wtay: it shouldn't crash AT ALL [15:46] <BBB-[away]> :P [15:46] <wtay> stop->play doesn't work [15:46] <BBB-[away]> um [15:46] <BBB-[away]> but if eos/eof is reached, it doesn't crash? [15:47] <wtay> nope [15:47] <BBB-[away]> that's good :P [15:47] <wtay> ok [15:47] <BBB-[away]> and if you press stop it doesn't crash as well? :P [15:47] <wtay> it does [15:47] <BBB-[away]> ? [15:48] <BBB-[away]> but eos/eof and stop is basically the same!!! [15:48] <BBB-[away]> I looked at the source. [15:48] <BBB-[away]> it both triggers gst_play_stop(); [15:48] <BBB-[away]> so that's kinda weird [15:48] <wtay> eos is triggered from the pipeline, stop can also be trigg= ered from the GUI [15:49] <BBB-[away]> that's true......... [15:49] <BBB-[away]> but the action is the same in both cases..... [15:49] <wtay> hmm, it's my fix that fails... [15:49] <BBB-[away]> muhahahahahhahahaahhaha :P [15:49] <BBB-[away]> lol [15:50] <wtay> ok, I'll commit your suggestion although it is not the rig= ht fix IMO [15:50] <BBB-[away]> it's not [15:50] <BBB-[away]> but at least it doesn't crash anymore :P [15:50] <wtay> true [15:50] <wtay> that's why I'll commit it :-) [15:50] <BBB-[away]> the thing is just that it doesn't go back to zero, i= f you can change that it should be okay :) [15:50] <BBB-[away]> and don't forget my name :P :P :P [15:51] <wtay> BBB-[away]: where do you want your name to be shown? [15:51] <BBB-[away]> nowhere :P [15:51] <BBB-[away]> it's just one line :P [15:51] <wtay> BBB-[away]: you sure? <g> [15:51] <BBB-[away]> that'and you'll change it anyway if you fix the not-= back-to-zero problem :P [15:51] <wtay> not even in the about bow? [15:52] <BBB-[away]> ok [15:52] <BBB-[away]> :) [15:52] <BBB-[away]> in the about :) [15:52] <BBB-[away]> lol [15:52] <wtay> BBB-[away]: name, email? [15:53] <BBB-[away]> Ronald Bultje, <rb...@ro...> [15:54] <wtay> ok [15:54] <BBB-[away]> ps, I promised Erik I would try to fix the fact that= it doesn't go back to zero, so maybe I'll submit another patch to you to= day :) [15:54] <BBB-[away]> maybe I can actually get it to work :) [15:55] <wtay> BBB-[away]: ok commited (be sure to press about) <g> [15:55] <BBB-[away]> :) [15:56] <BBB-[away]> I'll download the newest CVS right now :) [15:56] <wtay> uhmm [15:56] <BBB-[away]> uhmm? [15:56] <BBB-[away]> not good? [15:57] <wtay> hmm, no I didn't see you name in about... it used another = .glade file I guess... [15:57] <BBB-[away]> uhm [15:58] <BBB-[away]> the glade file is adapted here :) [15:58] <wtay> I have tons of gstreamer dirs so... [15:58] <BBB-[away]> uhm [15:58] <BBB-[away]> :) [15:59] <BBB-[away]> ok [15:59] <BBB-[away]> hm [15:59] <BBB-[away]> ./configure--ing right now :) [16:03] <BBB-[away]> > This patch is now The Right Way(tm) to handle the = stop button but at [16:03] <BBB-[away]> > least it doesn't crash... [16:03] <BBB-[away]> >=20 [16:03] <BBB-[away]> s/now/NOT [16:04] <BBB-[away]> lol! [16:04] <wtay> right [16:07] <hadess> "ESR just broke into my house. He's naked, covered in je= lly and holding a gun along with a copy of ESR's Love Tips :(" [16:08] <BBB-[away]> um........ [16:17] djcb (bi...@29...) left irc: Read error to djcb[= 29dyn1.dh.casema.net]: EOF from client [16:32] <BBB-[away]> I'm kinda wondering what actually happens - it seems= like the thread itself is shut down when you run into gst_play_stop(); [16:32] <BBB-[away]> because it just ... stops [16:32] <BBB-[away]> :) [16:36] <wtay> the thread should just wait until going to NULL state at w= hich point it stops [16:39] <BBB-[away]> :) [16:39] <BBB-[away]> it doesn't [16:39] <BBB-[away]> even if I literally set it to paused - so GTK_STATE_= PAUSED and GST_PLAY_PAUSED [16:39] <BBB-[away]> it still stops the thread and it does not respond to= the slider anymore [16:39] <BBB-[away]> os something in gst_play_stop stops the thread [16:40] matth-not-listening (ma...@qw...) joined #gstreamer. [16:40] steveb (st...@no...) joined #gstreamer. [16:40] U_carting (csc...@c2...) joined #gstreamer. [16:56] <BBB-[away]> hm........ [16:56] <BBB-[away]> EOS is really a problem [16:56] <BBB-[away]> in divx, the stop button works okay [16:56] <wtay> BBB-[away]: yes [16:56] <BBB-[away]> in vob, too [16:56] <BBB-[away]> in mpeg, it crashes [16:56] <BBB-[away]> but eos makes them all either crash or say eos all t= he time [16:56] <BBB-[away]> :) [16:57] <BBB-[away]> so this doesn't really help much :P [16:59] <wtay> omega is working on the scheduling and events which would = solve this once and for all [17:00] <BBB-[away]> so this is a scheduling problem? [17:00] Action: BBB-[away] finally sees the whole use of the scheduler :) [17:00] <wtay> yes [17:01] U_carting (csc...@c2...) left irc: Ping timeou= t for U_carting[c224s9h5.upc.chello.no] [17:30] Uraeus (cschalle@212.186.233.224) joined #gstreamer. [17:59] Action: hadess is packing the geeky t-shirts [18:04] Action: Uraeus is laughing evily at his latest attempt to curb st= upid Gnotice flames=20 [18:08] <hadess> Uraeus: for which article ? the Eazel one ? [18:08] <Uraeus> hadess: yes someone posting as Mariuhana Man was flaming= so after he reposted after three deletions I decided to edit instead [18:09] <hadess> what was the flame ? [18:10] <Uraeus> hadess: Eazel suck, Eazel is Evil, I will use KDE from n= ow on as so on. [18:10] <hadess> jada, jada, jada [18:10] <Uraeus> hadess: hope he is happy with his new post :) [18:11] <Uraeus> aaargh, he has reposted again [18:12] <hadess> 3 comments from him on this page [18:14] <Uraeus> haddes: well the two at the bottom is the ones I have ed= ited [18:16] <Uraeus> problem is that I can't continue with this deltion/editi= ng crap, if he continue to repost I guess I have to let it stand [18:17] <hadess> my turn =3D) [18:17] <wtay> tss... kids... [18:18] <wtay> and I thought Nautilus was comming along nicely..=20 [18:19] <Uraeus> me too [18:20] <Uraeus> aah, it seems he finally stopped [18:22] <wtay> food... [18:22] Nick change: wtay -> wtay-food [18:24] <steveb> Uraeus: tee hee [18:24] <hadess> Uraeus: I've posted a comment as well... [18:38] <Uraeus> hadess: thanks [18:40] <Uraeus> heh, that reponse from pinky to morgoth was kinda nice := ) [18:46] <hadess> morgoth's a real troll [18:47] <Uraeus> yup, as pinky said with friends like that who needs enem= ies [18:49] <Uraeus> for some reason do people leave common decency behind wh= en going online [18:52] <hadess> that's "common sense" and "decency" =3D) [18:53] <Uraeus> hehe [18:55] <Uraeus> sorry, I get very sloppy with my english when I am onlin= e [18:57] <hadess> heh, mine's not really better when i'm talking face to f= ace [18:58] <hadess> sometimes i talk like i'm a native, sometimes it's like = i just arrived with the rest of the boat-people [18:59] <Uraeus> well while I think I speak english which native-english = speakers easily can understand, there is no doubt that I am not a native = english speaker :) [18:59] <hadess> if you understand them well also, that's good [19:00] greg_ (gr...@ho...) joined #gstreamer. [19:00] <Uraeus> think I do, except some dialects like texan or highland = scottish which I really have concentrate on [19:01] <hadess> haha, you don't have to go that far north not to underst= and anything [19:01] <hadess> even yorkshire (leeds, manchester, sheffield) is enough [19:02] <Uraeus> no doubt ;) [19:02] <hadess> i was with a friend from brighton up there, and i didn't= get anything this lady was saying, and i thought it came from me [19:02] <hadess> but my mate didn't get anything either =3D) [19:03] <Uraeus> hehe [19:44] greg_ (gr...@ho...) left irc: [x]chat [19:57] dobey (dobey@141.154.95.104) joined #gstreamer. [19:57] <hadess> hey dobey [19:57] <dobey> yo [19:58] <wtay-food> hi [19:58] Nick change: wtay-food -> wtay [19:58] <dobey> sup? [19:59] <wtay> XFlush issues... [19:59] <Uraeus> flame issues [19:59] <wtay> or something... [20:00] Nick change: aj_zzzz -> ajmitch [20:00] <ajmitch> hi [20:00] <Uraeus> hi ajmitch [20:02] <wtay> yo ajmitch [20:02] <ajmitch> what're ppl up to? [20:02] <wtay> trying to get X videosink working [20:03] <wtay> it works smoothly with mpeg2parse but it stutters with gst= mediaplay [20:03] <ajmitch> ah.. [20:06] <ajmitch> you seen the messages on kde-multimedia lately? [20:07] <wtay> yes [20:07] <ajmitch> Njaard acting as stoopid as always... [20:09] <wtay> WildFox (aRts developer) came by a few hours ago to talk a= bout cooperation... [20:09] <ajmitch> cool [20:09] <dobey> omg [20:09] <ajmitch> wish i had been here, i've talked to him a bit [20:09] <wtay> yeah, check out the IRC logs [20:10] <wtay> no real plans yet [20:10] Action: ajmitch scrolls up... [20:11] <Uraeus> wtay: you are SO unethical :) [20:11] <Uraeus> wtay: cooperating with you would be a sellout [20:12] <Uraeus> rofl [20:12] <ajmitch> lol [20:12] <wtay> hehehe [20:12] <wtay> I'm am obsessed by money... :) [20:12] djcb (bi...@29...) joined #gstreamer. [20:12] <dobey> so get a job [20:12] <wtay> only thing on my mind... I'd love to be a sellout [20:13] <wtay> dobey: I have [20:13] <dobey> there are things better than money [20:14] <Uraeus> dobey: yes, but sex relates little to GStreamer developm= ent [20:14] <dobey> so does money [20:14] <dobey> it IS GPL [20:15] omega (om...@om...) joined #gstreamer. [20:15] <dobey> and it's not like your full-time job is to hack gstreamer [20:15] <BBB-[away]> omega!!! [20:16] <Uraeus> dobey: I doubt omega agrees with you on that :) [20:16] omega-europe (om...@om...) left irc: Ping timeout for omega= -europe[omegacs.net] [20:16] wtay (wi...@ca...) left irc: Ping tim= eout for wtay[cable-195-162-214-198.upc.chello.be] [20:16] <dobey> what? [20:16] <Uraeus> dobey: he works fulltime on gstreamer [20:16] <djcb> omega: got my mail? [20:17] <dobey> Uraeus: oh, who pays for it then? [20:17] <Uraeus> dobey: ridgerun [20:18] <dobey> Uraeus: besides, i wasn't talking about omega, i was talk= ing about everyone that hacks on it fool [20:19] <Uraeus> dobey: don't get aggresive I thought we where having a l= ight hearted discussion sorry if I misread you [20:19] <dobey> heh, that isn't aggressive, you should have seen me pound= ing the ydl people yesterday [20:19] wtay (wim@195.162.214.198) joined #gstreamer. [20:20] <Uraeus> :) [20:20] <wtay> uhm [20:20] <dobey> doing rpm --rebuild on someone elses rpms does not consti= tute your own distro, jesus christ [20:21] <Uraeus> heh [20:21] <Uraeus> another redhat ripoff? [20:21] ajmitch (me@203.173.238.141) left irc: Read error to ajmitch[203.= 173.238.141]: Connection reset by peer [20:21] <dobey> yes, they just rebuilt the rh7 srpms [20:22] ajmitch (me...@p1...) joined #gstreamer. [20:23] <Uraeus> dobey: I hope they did a s/RedHat/ydl/g at least, or whe= re they even cheaper? [20:23] <dobey> probably cheaper [20:23] <dobey> and they used rawhide rpms too, so openssl is totally fuc= ked in it [20:24] <dobey> because the so number was upped to .1 in the rawhide pack= age [20:24] <dobey> stupid people [20:24] <Uraeus> ah [20:25] <dobey> they were all saying 0.9.6 isn't bincompat with 0.9.5a, b= ecause it says that in the .spec file's changelog, when it is bincompat [20:26] <wtay> omega: ? [20:31] ajmitch (me...@p1...) left irc: Read error to ajm= itch[p13-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz]: EOF from client [20:32] <Uraeus> wtay: are you sure this omega is 'our [20:32] <Uraeus> ' omega? [20:32] ajmitch (me...@p1...) joined #gstreamer. [20:34] <wtay> yeah, it's the autoconnect feature of XChat.. [20:35] <ajmitch> damned xchat [20:39] <ajmitch> bye [20:40] <wtay> cya [20:40] <hadess> ciao [20:40] ajmitch (me...@p1...) left irc: http://www.freede= velopers.net [21:27] <hadess> night wtay [21:27] hadess (ha...@pc...) left irc: sleep [21:28] djcb (bi...@29...) left irc:=20 [21:49] BBB-[away] (BB...@uc...) left irc: [x]chat [22:08] WildFox (nikoz@62.224.244.185) joined #gstreamer. [22:08] <WildFox> hi again [22:08] <WildFox> wtay: ther? [22:08] <wtay> hello [22:08] <WildFox> cool [22:08] <WildFox> you are subscribed to kde-multimedia? [22:08] <dobey> hrmm [22:09] Action: dobey runs away [22:09] <wtay> WildFox: nope [22:09] <wtay> should I? [22:09] <WildFox> not really [22:09] <WildFox> i just want to verify one thing [22:09] djcb (bi...@29...) joined #gstreamer. [22:09] <wtay> not that I don't want to :) [22:09] <WildFox> could you read a mail for me pls ? [22:09] <wtay> sure [22:10] <WildFox> <- just wanna be sure that i didn't write complete tras= h [22:10] <WildFox> :) [22:10] <WildFox> better /query [22:10] <WildFox> or public? [22:11] <wtay> you decide=20 [22:11] <WildFox> On Sunday 01 April 2001 21:51, Charles Samuels wrote: [22:11] <WildFox> > I'll tell you why I oppose this. [22:11] <WildFox> > [22:11] <WildFox> > If we use gstreamer, gstreamer will be standard, GNO= ME will use gstreamer [22:11] <WildFox> > instead of arts, and then eventually we're going to = have to switch to [22:11] <WildFox> _NO_! [22:11] <WildFox> you are completly wrong, Charles [22:11] <WildFox> =20 [22:11] <WildFox> i talked with one of the gstreamer core devs! [22:11] <WildFox> they do _NOT_ wanna create their own soundserver... [22:11] <WildFox> if they ie. need audio they paste it to esd/arts (in f= uture) [22:11] <WildFox> that dev also voted for aRts being the standard! [22:11] <WildFox> so do _NOT_ mix them up [22:11] <WildFox> =20 [22:11] <WildFox> he also told me that gstreamer "just" handles the commu= nication [22:11] <WildFox> within the plugins at all.... [22:11] <WildFox> > gstreamer instead of arts, because of gnome's famed = FUD-machine. [22:11] <WildFox> > [22:11] <WildFox> > And I do NOT want to switch to gstreamer, since aRts= is clearly superior, [22:11] <WildFox> > and much better written. Read: C++ [22:11] <WildFox> > [22:11] <WildFox> > -Charles [22:11] <WildFox> .. [22:12] <WildFox> right or not right ? [22:12] <dobey> bah [22:12] <dobey> haha [22:12] <WildFox> i wrote the answer [22:12] <WildFox> don't be frightend [22:12] <WildFox> that's one of the devs [22:12] <dobey> frightened? [22:12] <Uraeus> WildFox: what exactly is GNOME's famous FUD machine? [22:12] <WildFox> btw [22:12] <WildFox> don't ask me [22:12] <dobey> <- very far from frightened [22:12] <WildFox> i am no GNOME flamer [22:12] <dobey> Uraeus: esd probably [22:12] <WildFox> i like both projects, KDE and GNOME [22:13] <wtay> thinking... [22:13] <Uraeus> dobey: yes ESD is so bad it is FUD in itself :) [22:13] <wtay> I tend to agree [22:13] <wtay> ..communication "between" plugins might be better [22:13] <dobey> Uraeus: bah, esd works for me [22:14] <WildFox> good [22:14] <wtay> WildFox: omega is the project leader, I'm not sure what he= thinks about all this [22:14] <WildFox> wtay: that's what i actually meant [22:15] <wtay> ok [22:15] <WildFox> oh [22:15] <WildFox> i said one of them [22:15] <WildFox> you are [22:15] <WildFox> one [22:15] <WildFox> hmm [22:15] <WildFox> i invite that person [22:15] <wtay> I have much less vision then omega has... [22:15] Njaard (cha...@ar...) joined #gstreamer. [22:15] <WildFox> Charles will come [22:15] <WildFox> :) [22:15] <Njaard> charles will come [22:15] <wtay> yo Njaard [22:15] <dobey> oh god [22:15] <WildFox> Njaard: hi [22:15] <Njaard> hi :) [22:16] <Uraeus> hi Njaard [22:16] <WildFox> Njaard: here are the famous core-dev's i speakt of :) [22:16] <WildFox> s/speakt/spoke/ [22:16] <wtay> WildFox: this channel is logged, omega will read it too... [22:16] <WildFox> wtay: good! [22:16] <Njaard> er, ok [22:16] <dobey> wildfox/njaard: what countries are you from? [22:16] <WildFox> dobey: Germany [22:16] Action: dobey just curious [22:16] <WildFox> you ? [22:16] <dobey> us [22:17] <WildFox> ah [22:17] <Njaard> dobey: I'm in the states too [22:17] <Njaard> well, re. WildFox's email, why doesn't gstreamer just, e= r, merge with arts? ;) [22:17] <dobey> Njaard: are you a kde hax0r? [22:18] <WildFox> yep he is [22:18] <Njaard> being that arts has the design, and gstreamer has the sp= eed, and we need more developers big time :) [22:18] <Njaard> dobey: hax0r is right ;) [22:18] <WildFox> yep [22:18] <wtay> Njaard: yeah why don't you code it? :-) [22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: i sayed that! [22:18] <dobey> jesus, i can see this is gonna go nowhere [22:18] <WildFox> but [22:18] <WildFox> ask themself [22:18] <Njaard> wtay: I'm only one man :) [22:18] <wtay> me too... [22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: as i said [22:18] <WildFox> Njaard: first we need an arts plugin system [22:19] <Njaard> arts HAS a plugin system [22:19] <WildFox> why not use gstreamers? [22:19] <WildFox> would be great [22:19] <WildFox> so ? [22:19] <WildFox> it's more frickled than stable [22:19] <Njaard> so why not get the gstreamer developers to optimize the = arts archetecture [22:19] <Njaard> arts is plenty stable [22:19] <WildFox> wow [22:19] <Njaard> not to mention much better designed [22:19] <wtay> Njaard: I'm not a C++ man... [22:19] <WildFox> oh oh oh [22:19] Action: WildFox silent [22:19] Action: Njaard notes that he feels funny talking about this here = :) [22:20] <Njaard> wtay: it's not very difficult :) [22:20] <WildFox> more easy, i'd say=20 [22:20] <wtay> Njaard: I know, I did some projects in it, I just don't li= ke it [22:20] Action: dobey notes not to install kde, ever, again [22:20] <Njaard> no, you don't know it [22:20] Action: Njaard is hardly an average KDE developer [22:20] <Njaard> I'm much more mean [22:20] Action: Uraeus notes the degree of diplomacy here is impressive := ) [22:20] <WildFox> dobey: hm [22:20] <Njaard> and I've been very bitter lately [22:20] <WildFox> dobey: you can use GNOME [22:20] <Njaard> so WildFox really chose the wrong person :) [22:21] <WildFox> ;) [22:21] <WildFox> stw's not there [22:21] <WildFox> and _THAT_ would be a real war then [22:21] <WildFox> :) [22:21] <Njaard> hehe [22:21] <Njaard> you folks wouldn't stand a chance ;) [22:21] <WildFox> arts will be standard in GNOME in near future, dobey [22:21] <Uraeus> actually you are aware that Stefan is speaking at GUADEC= ? [22:21] <WildFox> yes [22:21] <WildFox> he'll present aRts [22:21] Action: Njaard beats up DMA [22:21] <wtay> aRts is for audio... [22:22] <dobey> WildFox: where did you get this info? [22:22] <WildFox> yes [22:22] <Njaard> aRts is extendible [22:22] <Njaard> (very) [22:22] <WildFox> that's the problem [22:22] <Njaard> shit [22:22] <WildFox> dobey: gnome dev @ cebit [22:22] Action: Njaard accidentally exited noatun [22:22] <wtay> aRts handles plugins at a very low level [22:22] <WildFox> Njaard: hehe [22:22] <dobey> my god you people are silly [22:22] <Njaard> you see, I had it running for a couple days [22:22] <wtay> like: add two samples and stuff [22:22] <WildFox> Njaard: hehe [22:22] <vektor> njaard! [22:22] <WildFox> wtay: and? [22:22] <vektor> sup dude? [22:22] <WildFox> huh [22:23] <WildFox> you know each other? :) [22:23] Action: dobey notes he will never use arts [22:23] <Njaard> because the binary I had installed had been more recent = compiles :) [22:23] <Njaard> vektor: !!!! [22:23] <WildFox> dobey: ouf-oh [22:23] <Njaard> vektor: where've you been buddy? :) [22:23] <wtay> GStreamer is more high level... [22:23] <WildFox> dobey: that's a big flame now [22:23] <WildFox> dobey: why do you say that? [22:23] <vektor> Njaard: I've been doing dvd stuff man. [22:23] <Njaard> vektor: niice :) [22:23] <WildFox> dobey: if gstreamer + arts is "merged" what then? [22:23] <Njaard> vektor: /me mentions something about an arts playobject [22:23] <WildFox> dobey: you wouldn#t use it [22:23] <dobey> WildFox: because like distros, all current audio servers = suck [22:23] <dobey> not arts, no [22:23] <WildFox> no [22:23] <WildFox> ever tried arts? [22:24] <Njaard> programming for it is nice [22:24] <Njaard> it'd be even nicer of stw wrote, er, docs :) [22:24] <dobey> besides, if you want to uses gstreamer on arts, write a f= reakin plugin for gstreamer to output to arts [22:24] <vektor> dobey: can you spell latency? [22:24] <wtay> dobey: yes [22:24] <dobey> it's not like you need to combine the two here [22:24] <WildFox> no [22:24] <WildFox> that would be fscking syncing problems [22:24] <WildFox> think about it [22:24] <WildFox> gstreamer playing sound [22:24] <WildFox> ermm [22:24] <WildFox> gstreamer playing video [22:24] <dobey> vektor: can you spell extensibility and componentization? [22:24] <WildFox> but routing sound to arts [22:24] <WildFox> *OUF* [22:24] <WildFox> no sync at all [22:24] <dobey> latency my ass [22:25] <Njaard> no, arts can play video, it is THAT extensible [22:25] <wtay> WildFox: no prob, the samples have a timestamp [22:25] <WildFox> wtay: let's say arts lags horrible [22:25] <WildFox> what then? [22:25] <wtay> both sink play the media at the given time [22:25] <vektor> dobey: Sorry dude, if you're writing a multitracker, you= want both lots of plugins, and low latency. That means choosing one plu= gin architecture. [22:25] Action: dobey notes a "low-end" computer is a pIII 500 with 128Mb= ram, and a sound blaster live [22:25] <WildFox> wtay: grml [22:25] <wtay> WildFox: make it lag less then [22:25] <WildFox> so [22:25] <WildFox> and that's why we ask you :) [22:25] <vektor> dobey: Have you ever tried to write, say, a MIDI sequenc= er using a P3-733? You still care about latency. [22:25] <WildFox> you have the speed [22:26] <wtay> WildFox: we don't hav anything that requires low latency [22:26] <WildFox> less dropouts? [22:26] <dobey> vektor: the amount of latency that will occur will be so = minute it's not noticeable [22:27] <WildFox> Njaard: but you have to say that mpeglib is _frickled_ = into aRts [22:27] Action: dobey notes he listens to oggs at 250kbps over nfs in xmm= s with non-noticeable latency [22:27] <Njaard> what is frickled? :) [22:27] <dobey> OUTPUTTING TO ESD [22:27] <Njaard> dobey: NFS buffers [22:27] <vektor> dobey: There's a big difference between listening to mp3= s and having something sync to an external MIDI clock dude. [22:27] <Njaard> so that causes no latency [22:27] <vektor> dobey: Sorry. [22:27] <vektor> Anyways, I shouldn't have brought that up. [22:27] <wtay> ont thing at a time [22:28] <wtay> s/ont/one [22:28] <Njaard> aRts can do MIDI hardware input, with a plugin [22:28] <Njaard> (!) [22:28] <dobey> vektor: and where do external midi clocks come in to a fr= eakin sound server on which the primary goal is to watch dvds and listen = to internet audio? [22:28] <vektor> Njaard: I don't know why you don't like gstreamer :) [22:28] <wtay> we can't do that yet [22:28] <Njaard> vektor: I hate anything with a G [22:28] <Njaard> and writing anything like this in C is stupid, when you = have C++ [22:28] <vektor> Njaard: And I think you should grow up. [22:28] <vektor> Njaard: Big time. [22:28] <dobey> my god i always get bombarded by ignorant people [22:28] <Njaard> vektor: I was kidding about the G, actually ;) [22:29] <vektor> dobey: Well, aRts for one is built with latency in mind.= gstreamer isn't. [22:29] <dobey> bah, gstreamer is also not part of kde 2 or gnome 1.4 for= a reason [22:29] <vektor> In fact, the two are completely orthogonal. [22:29] Action: Njaard mentions the Rt in aRts :) [22:29] <Uraeus> people, please keep the advocacy switch off, in this cro= wd it is worthless [22:29] Action: dobey goes back to gnome 1.4 [22:29] <wtay> we hope to avoid it at some point by optimising data trans= fer and writing straight to the DMA buffers [22:30] <Njaard> Uraeus: s/people/Njaard/ :) [22:30] <vektor> Does gstreamer want to become a sound server? [22:30] <wtay> I think aRts is similar to overflow [22:30] <vektor> Or, just a codec engine? [22:30] <Uraeus> Njaard: I was trying to be diplomatic :) [22:30] <vektor> I was under the impression gstreamer was mostly a codec = architecture. [22:31] <wtay> more like scheduling middleware [22:31] <Njaard> Uraeus: oh, ok :) [22:31] <dobey> gstreamer is not intended to be a sound server [22:31] <vektor> Right. [22:31] <dobey> that is pretty obvious [22:31] <wtay> indeed [22:31] <vektor> So, then it's perfect for having as an input to aRts, wh= ich is a sound server. [22:31] <wtay> not for me anyway [22:31] <vektor> End of discussion. [22:31] <vektor> Right? [22:31] <dobey> you people are rediculously arguing over something non-im= portant [22:31] <wtay> vektor: problem solved <g> [22:32] <vektor> Sorry, I kinda jumped into this discussion when I saw Nj= aard. :) [22:32] <dobey> god, kde-* lists are almost as bad as debian-devel [22:32] <wtay> seriously, I would give a aRts plugin in gstreamer a shot = myself... [22:33] <Njaard> vektor: heh [22:33] <Njaard> vektor: are you with gstreamer? [22:33] <wtay> xmms was pretty easy to assimilate [22:33] <dobey> just write the plugin and quit whining [22:33] <WildFox> dobey: hey [22:33] <vektor> Njaard: No, I'm with 'exams' right now. [22:33] <Njaard> vektor: fun :) [22:33] <vektor> Sure. [22:33] <WildFox> dobey: aren't you flaming ? [22:33] <dobey> WildFox: not yet [22:33] <WildFox> dobey: you always say something for _ALL_ kde* [22:34] <wtay> and then write an aRts plugin using gstreamer... [22:34] <WildFox> dobey: did i say anything rude against GNOME ? [22:34] <WildFox> dobey: no [22:34] <Njaard> why not write an arts plugin that can load gstreamer plu= gins [22:34] <dobey> i'm just saying you people are so worried about shit that= makes absolutely no sense [22:34] <Njaard> wouldn't that make much more sense? [22:34] <Njaard> not to mention faster [22:34] <dobey> Njaard: god you're sick [22:34] <WildFox> dobey: ie? [22:34] <wtay> Njaard: could do that [22:34] <vektor> Njaard: Sure, why not? You're the one who flamed this i= dea on kde-multimedia. [22:34] <WildFox> dobey: WHAT? [22:34] <WildFox> whop [22:34] <dobey> let's just write a moniker for kparts to load gstreamer p= lugins [22:34] <WildFox> s/WHAT/what/ [22:34] <Njaard> I flame any idea that begins with a G ;) [22:35] <WildFox> it's actually better to load gstreamer plugins [22:35] Action: Njaard needs to stop with that [22:35] <wtay> GNU? [22:35] <dobey> Njaard: figures [22:35] <vektor> wtay: njaard doesn't like GNU either. [22:35] <WildFox> instead of creating a playobject-wrapper [22:35] <WildFox> . . . [22:35] <WildFox> imho [22:35] <Njaard> dobey: arts is unrelated to kparts [22:35] <Njaard> arts just links to libstdc++ [22:35] <dobey> just go back to using windows and media player [22:35] <dobey> god [22:35] <WildFox> huh ? [22:35] <WildFox> calm down, guy [22:35] <WildFox> we want a constructive discussion [22:36] <WildFox> no war [22:36] <Njaard> not me :) [22:36] <WildFox> am i right ? [22:36] <Njaard> I want it destructive [22:36] <Njaard> as destructive as possible [22:36] <WildFox> ?* [22:36] <Njaard> :D [22:36] <WildFox> gr [22:36] <Njaard> heh [22:36] <dobey> Njaard: yeah, i can see, you must just be a german living= in america [22:36] <wtay> I wanna create a gst plugin using aRts to handle the audio= .. [22:36] <Njaard> dobey: I'm not :) [22:36] <WildFox> dobey: ah and now you say sth. agains me ? [22:36] <WildFox> nice [22:36] <WildFox> wtay. good one [22:36] <dobey> god lighten up people [22:37] <dobey> wtay: good, end of discussion, problem solved, everyone c= an go home now [22:37] <Uraeus> WildFox: I think 'cooperation' will hapen due to individ= ual effort, for our part a aRTS plugin is planned [22:37] <Njaard> well, personally, in *my opinion* gsteamer is useless, d= ue to aRts [22:37] <WildFox> not at all [22:37] <WildFox> just one point [22:37] <dobey> yeah, well, arts is useless too [22:37] <Njaard> in your opinion :) [22:37] <vektor> Njaard: Why? [22:37] <Uraeus> Njaard: yes, and in our opinion aRTS is redundant :) [22:37] <WildFox> we didn'T rewrite arts core to be _PURE_ c++ [22:37] <WildFox> so that nobody uses it [22:38] <wtay> Njaard: in my opinion both projects have different goals s= o they can both coexist [22:38] <Njaard> well, aRts does what gstreamer does, and more [22:38] <Njaard> now, I admit, aRts isn't as mature as gstreamer [22:38] <Njaard> but only because it's trying to do more [22:38] <dobey> oh my god [22:38] <Uraeus> Njaard: like what? [22:38] <Njaard> wtay: I see aRts as a superset of gstreamer [22:38] Action: dobey gets the cluestick ready [22:38] <Njaard> Uraeus: like what of what specifically? [22:38] <dobey> or the LART-gun, whichever you prefer [22:38] <Njaard> lart gun would be nice [22:38] <Njaard> :) [22:39] <wtay> Njaard: tell me how you are going to handle the different = media formats for example [22:39] <dobey> would you like it in the head, the chest, or elsewhere? [22:39] <Njaard> wtay: well, aRts already can play: mpeg-1, mpeg-2 (lousi= ly), mikmod, modplug, mp3, oggvorbis [22:39] <Uraeus> WildFox: I don't think bringing Njaard here was a big st= ep forward :) [22:39] <Njaard> writing mikmod one, for example, was an evening, and bou= t 200LOC [22:39] Action: Njaard tends to agree with Uraeus [22:39] <WildFox> Uraeus: yep :/ [22:40] <WildFox> Uraeus: i hoped it would be [22:40] <WildFox> hope_D_ [22:40] <WildFox> :) [22:40] <dobey> so let's get rid of him [22:40] vektor_ (ve...@HS...) joined #gs= treamer. [22:40] <Njaard> now you've just given up [22:40] <Njaard> heh [22:40] <dobey> Njaard: nah, i gave up on you way before [22:40] <Njaard> heh [22:40] <Njaard> well, you know where to reach me for flames. [22:40] Njaard (cha...@ar...) left #gstreamer (KVirc 2= .1.0 '3 megabytes and growing'). [22:41] <WildFox> shit [22:41] <WildFox> sorry guys [22:41] <WildFox> i really thought he would be constructive [22:41] <Uraeus> give up? I think convincing the Afgan government to save= Budhas is easier than having a pragmatic conversation with Njaard=20 [22:41] <wtay> no prob [22:41] <Uraeus> :) [22:41] <dobey> haha [22:41] <wtay> Uraeus: hehe [22:42] Action: dobey tends to ignore kde people [22:42] <dobey> at least irl anywya [22:42] <WildFox> ouf [22:42] <wtay> let's pretend he enjoys himself... [22:42] <WildFox> that's shit [22:42] <WildFox> don't ignore me :) [22:42] wtay (wim@195.162.214.198) left irc: Read error to wtay[195.162.2= 14.198]: EOF from client [22:42] <dobey> why not? you use kde [22:42] <Uraeus> WildFox: I think what you where trying to do was good, b= ut know that many has failed before you :( [22:42] wtay (wi...@ca...) joined #gstreamer. [22:42] <wtay> uhm [22:42] <WildFox> dobey: ? [22:43] <WildFox> you ignore me for using kde ? [22:43] <WildFox> you ignore me for using kde ? (!) [22:43] <wtay> WildFox: you're one of the good guys :) [22:43] <dobey> WildFox: sure, why not? [22:43] <WildFox> wtay: :) [22:43] <WildFox> wtay: you too ;) [22:43] <Uraeus> WildFox: don't take dobey to seriously we don't :) [22:43] <WildFox> good [22:43] <WildFox> :) [22:43] <dobey> Uraeus: if you don't now, you will in the future :-) [22:44] <Uraeus> hehe [22:44] <dobey> eh, as long as you aren't a troll, i could care less real= ly [22:44] <Uraeus> I think writing the aRTS plugin is a nice first step, an= d a step which the ambition level is within reach [22:45] <wtay> Uraeus: yes [22:45] <Uraeus> more abitious targets just end up in demotivating flamew= ars [22:46] <dobey> yeah, they do if you tell people about them [22:46] <wtay> is aRts C++? [22:46] <dobey> anyone using icewm? [22:46] <wtay> stupid question... [22:46] <dobey> wtay: yes, sadly enough all of kde is [22:46] <Uraeus> wtay: yes [22:47] <wtay> might be a nice idea to actually try a C++ plugin in gstre= amer... [22:48] <dobey> wtay: realmedia would be a good one to go with... [22:48] <Uraeus> or maybe the aRTS plugin itself [22:48] <Uraeus> WildFox: is the C api for aRTS ready? [22:49] <wtay> Uraeus: I have more confidence in gstreamer using aRts the= n vise versa [22:49] <Uraeus> WildFox: since I seem to rember one being made [22:49] <Uraeus> wtay: that my friend is my belief too :) [22:50] <dobey> yes, they are ass-backward [22:50] <wtay> Uraeus: we are so civilized aren't we? :-) [22:50] <WildFox> yep [22:50] <WildFox> it is ready [22:50] <Uraeus> dobey: you can stop flaming now Njaard has left :) [22:51] <WildFox> c++ is that easy [22:51] <WildFox> just a question [22:51] <WildFox> why do you use C ? [22:51] <dobey> Uraeus: i wasn't flaming fool, i'm saying all the kde-ana= l people want to do things wrong [22:51] <WildFox> ethic ? [22:51] <Uraeus> WildFox: it was co-developed between Stefan and Tim wasn= 't it? [22:51] <WildFox> Tim ? [22:51] Action: dobey notes kparts doesn't even have an out-of-process co= mponent system [22:51] <WildFox> stefan...yes [22:51] <Uraeus> TIm Janik [22:51] <wtay> WildFox: probably because we all think C++ sucks [22:51] <WildFox> dobey: ? [22:51] <WildFox> dobey: and that is ? [22:51] <WildFox> wtay: ok why [22:52] <dobey> WildFox: the component being run in a separate process [22:52] <Uraeus> urk, please not a language discussion [22:52] <wtay> WildFox: C++ is a OO hacked version of C [22:52] <WildFox> hmm [22:52] <WildFox> but it makes things easier [22:52] <WildFox> ok [22:52] <WildFox> that's enough, right [22:52] <Uraeus> wtay, Wildfox: lets compromise, rewrite both GNOME and K= DE in ObjectiveC [22:52] <wtay> WildFox: ever done any real OO programming? like Smalltalk= or (ouch) JAVA? [22:52] <WildFox> i don't wanna convert anyone [22:52] <dobey> easier for certain definition of easy [22:52] Action: WildFox loves c++ but also does c [22:53] <wtay> I also like the pure OO features of C++ though [22:53] <WildFox> classes [22:53] <WildFox> inheritance [22:53] <WildFox> .. [22:53] <dobey> OO is one thing, evil is another [22:53] <wtay> WildFox: sorta [22:53] <Uraeus> zzzZZZzZZZzZZZZzzzzz [22:53] <wtay> WildFox: multiple inheritance is evil [22:54] <wtay> ... [truncated message content] |