A realization that smacked me as potentially predictive. When PCs were new and becoming fixtures on everyone's desk, regardless of role, the choice of DOS and then Windows saved a fair bit of training money, as everyone had the same thing at home. Consumer grade become classed as business grade, for expedience, and some savings.
Now the Web. Children are not expected to use Word and Excel for classes anymore. They use Google apps in a browser, and the teachers don't need to care about platforms used at home, can purchase lower cost chromebooks for labs, and the like.
That generation is in the workforce now, in ever growing relative numbers. Training in MS Office and Windows might start costing money, foreign to some of the new hires. Doesn't mean free software like GNU/Linux will win, but it might signal a toppling of Microsoft Office dominance. Or not. It'd be a big topple, backed by marketing departments with deeper pockets than a lot of governments.
Cheers,
Blue
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Two thoughts.
Where I work, we use CGI (really perl and bash scripts) and html. VERY SIMPLE to display/enter data only, no bells and whistles. I would not call it GUI but TUI I suppose. We basically are a Batch BackEnd shop, and the perl/sh calls the cobol program. Works Fast.
Other thought, we went from a paid version of Unix to free Linux and from a very Expensive Micro Focus to GnuCOBOL. When we went to the modern Linux we got more cpu's and cores and the software suddenly became VERY expensive.
So it may be just be COBOL and a dang good COBOL and let it always be Free and let the chips fall where they may.
Oh the original main vein of our batch process was ported down from the Mainframe to UNIX.
Last edit: Mickey White 2022-02-14
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So it may be just be COBOL and a dang good COBOL and let it always be Free and let the chips fall where they may.
Totally agree with the first parts, Mickey. Don't have it in me to just let chips fall though. Gotta rah rah bisboombah for the GnuCOBOL. Well, the chips will fall, but there should be pom poms and dancing people pointing to where they land. :-)
While avoiding unrealistic hype, want to create some Free Software COBOL for Modernization and Cloud, Home, Cottage and Club full colour glossies. Loving the feedback here, it is both reeling in and expanding on plans.
This pondering is mostly for fun, peace, and inner satisfaction, but with some real.
Like a COBOL nerd song sorta in the works. C Open B Open L mapping to E up an octave. But it sounds better as a G on the bass, Done nice and slow. C-A-B-A-G hold for 8, (or E for the nerd points, less harmonic)? Nice riff, in the trial runs. Hints of terminators, ninjas and accountants. Or really, from an old Kids in the Hall skit on TV, the holy trinity of Rock when Bobby took on the devil, "E A B E A B A". ;-)
Within the Internet there should be ways to advertise the Free Solution.
Just as the mainstream Media is owned by their advertisers (or even more sinister parent company), we would not be able to advertise: "Tired of paying endlessly to compile and run your Cobol programs? Are costs going up year after year? Then stop. Take a look at the Free GnuCOBOL compiler. It may just be the solution."
I doubt even if we had the money to do the advertisement in the three media outlets that were in the original posts, they would not print it.
Word of mouth and the internet and some proof of concepts will have to do.
I suggest the head line "Free Beer" ! That'll bring them in.
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Yes, agree. These won't be pay to place ads. Just fanboi full colour glossies. By, full colour glossies, alluding to looking and feeling like marketing. With lame jokes in the footnotes.
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It just occurred to me...doh?
Out of all the available languages (to my knowledge) only 2 have built in indexed files for big data. PL/I and COBOL. If that capability is needed, all others force you into using using and maintaining a database. More work if you ask me. With a shortage of (free) PL/I compilers that leaves COBOL.
Wouldn't this be a good selling point?
👍
1
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For free PL/I, Iron Spring, http://www.iron-spring.com/ This one is free beer plus. Closed source compiler, Run-time libraries are free as LGPL source code. GNU/Linux, OS/2.
I can't speak to the long term plans, but plic sees updates and has been working through 0,9 releases aiming to 1.0 since the 10s. 2010s that is. I've only installed, ran hello, and spread word. Never really dug in. As-is, beautiful candidate for an integration trial with GnuCOBOL. Iron Spring coded to the OS/2 ABI, which is gcc friendly object code, so... :-) libpbl provides an ISAM layer for environment(indexed) file dcls.
Cheers,
Blue
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Is the phrase GnuCOBOL: free software, lesser free run-time ok without an explanation? Or does it need to be a more full "GnuCOBOL: greater free software COBOL compiler, lesser free COBOL run-time (allowing closed source COBOL development and binary only delivery)"?
I'd rather imply it, than state it, the thing about the lesser implied in the LGPL can be seen as a greater freedom to a software shop decision maker. It's not very GNU when explicit, and I'd rather stick with the GNU point of view of user freedom. even in the marketing hype meant for programmers and programmer bosses.
Opines?
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"Is the phrase GnuCOBOL: free software, lesser free run-time ok without
an explanation? Or does it need to be a more full "GnuCOBOL: greater free
software COBOL compiler, lesser free COBOL run-time (allowing closed
source COBOL development and binary only delivery)"?"
Just as Simon wrote, keep it simple.
Then add this to be completely terse but complete accurate:
GnuCOBOL compile is licensed under the GPL and the GnuCOBOL runtime is
licensed under LGPL.
That might be the sanest path, Michael, instead of aiming for P. T. Barnum level cute word trickery, or un-trickery really, when it comes to the GNU view of lesser (and how it pertains to others and not just programmers) verses the common world view of free (and how it pertains to me me me).
Less freedom to, more freedom from.
More freedom to, no freedom from.
Treat decision makers like they actually get it? Do they get it? Or is the world really a place where you need to treat people like suckers in a competitive market when it comes to the meaning of free?
Cheers,
Blue
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Do they get it? Look at the mess they have.
Everyone thinks progress is something new and trendy.
Progress is getting stuff done.
At one point everyone thought 4GL or Databases would make all other languages obsolete.
The reality is that Cobol still holds first place the most used language. Until all that code is replaced it is a Cobol world. Let it market itself.
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For those not familiar with Stallman doctrine "free software" means literally no remuneration is required.
Lesser defines a group of islands - the "Lesser Antilles."
Marketing appeal within the Stallman community seems pointless.
Targeting your marketing appeal beyond Stallman requires discarding the Stallman inspired lingo.
A no charge COBOL compiler - equal to or better than the Micro Focus COBOL compiler.
Not $4,000 per programmer but zero dollars.
Me thinks you guys are too close to doctrine - it would be difficult to perceive mass market appeal to professional programmers when your mindset is steeped with "the cause"
Just sayin
Last edit: Ralph Linkletter 2022-03-09
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A realization that smacked me as potentially predictive. When PCs were new and becoming fixtures on everyone's desk, regardless of role, the choice of DOS and then Windows saved a fair bit of training money, as everyone had the same thing at home. Consumer grade become classed as business grade, for expedience, and some savings.
Now the Web. Children are not expected to use Word and Excel for classes anymore. They use Google apps in a browser, and the teachers don't need to care about platforms used at home, can purchase lower cost chromebooks for labs, and the like.
That generation is in the workforce now, in ever growing relative numbers. Training in MS Office and Windows might start costing money, foreign to some of the new hires. Doesn't mean free software like GNU/Linux will win, but it might signal a toppling of Microsoft Office dominance. Or not. It'd be a big topple, backed by marketing departments with deeper pockets than a lot of governments.
Cheers,
Blue
" It'd be a big topple, backed by marketing departments with deeper pockets than a lot of governments"
No, not by deep pockets this time. By choice. Watch it happen.
Have a great day!
Two thoughts.
Where I work, we use CGI (really perl and bash scripts) and html. VERY SIMPLE to display/enter data only, no bells and whistles. I would not call it GUI but TUI I suppose. We basically are a Batch BackEnd shop, and the perl/sh calls the cobol program. Works Fast.
Other thought, we went from a paid version of Unix to free Linux and from a very Expensive Micro Focus to GnuCOBOL. When we went to the modern Linux we got more cpu's and cores and the software suddenly became VERY expensive.
So it may be just be COBOL and a dang good COBOL and let it always be Free and let the chips fall where they may.
Oh the original main vein of our batch process was ported down from the Mainframe to UNIX.
Last edit: Mickey White 2022-02-14
Totally agree with the first parts, Mickey. Don't have it in me to just let chips fall though. Gotta rah rah bisboombah for the GnuCOBOL. Well, the chips will fall, but there should be pom poms and dancing people pointing to where they land. :-)
While avoiding unrealistic hype, want to create some Free Software COBOL for Modernization and Cloud, Home, Cottage and Club full colour glossies. Loving the feedback here, it is both reeling in and expanding on plans.
This pondering is mostly for fun, peace, and inner satisfaction, but with some real.
Like a COBOL nerd song sorta in the works. C Open B Open L mapping to E up an octave. But it sounds better as a G on the bass, Done nice and slow. C-A-B-A-G hold for 8, (or E for the nerd points, less harmonic)? Nice riff, in the trial runs. Hints of terminators, ninjas and accountants. Or really, from an old Kids in the Hall skit on TV, the holy trinity of Rock when Bobby took on the devil, "E A B E A B A". ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoAGasPLh30 from the late 1980s
Have good, make well,
Blue
Within the Internet there should be ways to advertise the Free Solution.
Just as the mainstream Media is owned by their advertisers (or even more sinister parent company), we would not be able to advertise: "Tired of paying endlessly to compile and run your Cobol programs? Are costs going up year after year? Then stop. Take a look at the Free GnuCOBOL compiler. It may just be the solution."
I doubt even if we had the money to do the advertisement in the three media outlets that were in the original posts, they would not print it.
Word of mouth and the internet and some proof of concepts will have to do.
I suggest the head line "Free Beer" ! That'll bring them in.
"Ribbit..."
Yes, agree. These won't be pay to place ads. Just fanboi full colour glossies. By, full colour glossies, alluding to looking and feeling like marketing. With lame jokes in the footnotes.
It just occurred to me...doh?
Out of all the available languages (to my knowledge) only 2 have built in indexed files for big data. PL/I and COBOL. If that capability is needed, all others force you into using using and maintaining a database. More work if you ask me. With a shortage of (free) PL/I compilers that leaves COBOL.
Wouldn't this be a good selling point?
Yes it will. ;-)
For free PL/I, Iron Spring, http://www.iron-spring.com/ This one is free beer plus. Closed source compiler, Run-time libraries are free as LGPL source code. GNU/Linux, OS/2.
I can't speak to the long term plans, but
plicsees updates and has been working through 0,9 releases aiming to 1.0 since the 10s. 2010s that is. I've only installed, ran hello, and spread word. Never really dug in. As-is, beautiful candidate for an integration trial with GnuCOBOL. Iron Spring coded to the OS/2 ABI, which is gcc friendly object code, so... :-) libpbl provides an ISAM layer forenvironment(indexed)filedcls.Cheers,
Blue
Is the phrase GnuCOBOL: free software, lesser free run-time ok without an explanation? Or does it need to be a more full "GnuCOBOL: greater free software COBOL compiler, lesser free COBOL run-time (allowing closed source COBOL development and binary only delivery)"?
I'd rather imply it, than state it, the thing about the lesser implied in the LGPL can be seen as a greater freedom to a software shop decision maker. It's not very GNU when explicit, and I'd rather stick with the GNU point of view of user freedom. even in the marketing hype meant for programmers and programmer bosses.
Opines?
"GnuCOBOL: free software" is enough, better is "GnuCOBOL: free software".
This would confuse me:
"Is the phrase GnuCOBOL: free software, lesser free run-time ok without
an explanation? Or does it need to be a more full "GnuCOBOL: greater free
software COBOL compiler, lesser free COBOL run-time (allowing closed
source COBOL development and binary only delivery)"?"
Just as Simon wrote, keep it simple.
Then add this to be completely terse but complete accurate:
GnuCOBOL compile is licensed under the GPL and the GnuCOBOL runtime is
licensed under LGPL.
mod edit for some reply-to
Last edit: Brian Tiffin 2022-03-09
That might be the sanest path, Michael, instead of aiming for P. T. Barnum level cute word trickery, or un-trickery really, when it comes to the GNU view of lesser (and how it pertains to others and not just programmers) verses the common world view of free (and how it pertains to me me me).
Less freedom to, more freedom from.
More freedom to, no freedom from.
Treat decision makers like they actually get it? Do they get it? Or is the world really a place where you need to treat people like suckers in a competitive market when it comes to the meaning of free?
Cheers,
Blue
Do they get it? Look at the mess they have.
Everyone thinks progress is something new and trendy.
Progress is getting stuff done.
At one point everyone thought 4GL or Databases would make all other languages obsolete.
The reality is that Cobol still holds first place the most used language. Until all that code is replaced it is a Cobol world. Let it market itself.
I like the terse, but it might be a little too terse for a full colour cheer led marketing pamphlet.
Three words on a page would be hard pressed fulfilling the COBOL dream of ultimate verbosity, even if it had really ornate border art.
;-)
Cheers,
Blue
For those not familiar with Stallman doctrine "free software" means literally no remuneration is required.
Lesser defines a group of islands - the "Lesser Antilles."
Marketing appeal within the Stallman community seems pointless.
Targeting your marketing appeal beyond Stallman requires discarding the Stallman inspired lingo.
A no charge COBOL compiler - equal to or better than the Micro Focus COBOL compiler.
Not $4,000 per programmer but zero dollars.
Me thinks you guys are too close to doctrine - it would be difficult to perceive mass market appeal to professional programmers when your mindset is steeped with "the cause"
Just sayin
Last edit: Ralph Linkletter 2022-03-09