geotools-administration — Code free mailing list on the care and feeding of the GeoTools project

Re: [Geotools-admin] new blood - bribery

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

On Tuesday, 10 May 2011 at 7:02 PM, Andrea Aime wrote:
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...> wrote:
> > The answer was bribery. E.g. someone serving on the Society's council for a
> > year had their membership fees
> > waived. Members responding to a call for assistance or advice went into the
> > draw for a free book.
> > 
> > In the context of GeoTools it would be good to think of inducements that can
> > be offered to module maintainers and PMC members. Even token
> > items such as a profile page on the web site might attract people (and it
> > would be better than the current invisibility).
> > 
> > Good thinking; our earlier draft of the website had such information; and
> > indeed we collected information on who uses GeoTools as well.
> > So we could start by:
> > - restoring that content to the "get involved page" (or about page?)
> > - We have something tasteful on the uDig site; listing the current PSC
> > (http://udig.refractions.net/developers/) I think we could list those
> > responsible for the supported modules?
> > - With respect to organisations we could list those donating resources to
> > the project (build boxes; PMC members; module maintainers, etc ...); and
> > have a link to other commercial support offerings at the bottom. The uDig
> > version of this page is here (http://udig.refractions.net/users/ for
> > reference)
> > - we could hold of listing users in trade for a white paper / case-study /
> > blog post describing how the organisation uses GeoTools
> All of the above could work in some way I guess.
> 
> Another thing that came to mind is the ultimate form of bribery: bug fixing.
> That is, I'm certainly more inclined to help users that try to answer questions
> on the user list, help with documentation, provide ready to try out bug reports
> (data + little self contained program) than people just crying for help.
> Just not sure how to word it, it's not like we can promise to fix a specific
> bug within a specific time, but I guess people often don't realize they can
> help in other ways (write a tutorial, something).
I have a similar thought; the way I phrase it is that I will work on the bug if they will promptly test (or join me on IRC and try several things out). The difference in efficiency is great; as they already have an environment that produces the problem. Where as if I need to spend 30 mins (or install oracle?) to produce a 10 min fix it is not going to happen.

I had asked people to write up the answer in the wiki; but in porting the content I really did not find that many of these requests had be honoured. 

Jody 

Re: [Geotools-admin] new blood - committer sprint

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

So you say, instead of the classic bug squash where we try to close as many
> bugs as possible, we sit there and try to tutor new developers into fixing the
> existing issues?
No they fix; we review the fixes promptly and teach them how to make a complete fix (ie you need a test case; here is an example to copy; etc...). 
(And if we are waiting for a fix to review we may as well; work on a fix of our own; or write a documentation page; or read a book).
> May work, at the same time the code we have today is the result of many
> hands over many years and trying to address a large number of needs
> The library is just not simple, it's not like you can tutor someone in
> walking through it in a few hours.
That was not my intension; my hope was to talk to organisations that we know have developers using GeoTools (52N, GeoMajas, LISAsoft, etc...). Each one of these groups *for sure* has workarounds that they have not committed back; or issues in Jira they are "waiting on", or issues they have not told us about.

The idea is to ask developers already familiar with GeoTools through use to participate in a code sprint; specifically to go through the steps required for them to get commit access. That way in the future we can review a patch; and then ask them to commit. Directly adding a developer to the project.

Still you are correct that this may not be productive: I am sure some developers would spend the entire time building GeoTools (installing sphinx, and issue a few patches to documentation for review?
> Another interesting exercise could be to try and write docs describing what a module does and and how. I'm pretty sure we'd find it difficult to explain the internals and get ideas on how to make it better. At the same time, good luck finding the time/funds to perform those changes....
Good idea - no doubt that would make the library more approachable. Still seems like a long play to get new developers.
However the idea of contributing docs of this nature would be a good way to involve people; and may be less intimidating then then out right coding.
Indeed I often turn your email into docs; perhaps that would be a good activity for a new developer?

Re: [Geotools-admin] new blood - committer sprint

[Andrea A. <and...@ge...>]

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...> wrote:
> The idea I had (which may or may not be good) is to have a small "Jira"
> party; normally these are devoted to closing as many bugs as can be closed.
> (Heck normally they are done by Andrea when I am not looking .... thank
> Andrea).
> The idea however would be to prep it up as a small code sprint; go and
> pester downstream projects, the user list, and so forth - and ask if they
> can spare some developers for the sprint. And focus on walking through the
> steps to submit a patch; get it reviewed; and for the keen get three patches
> reviewed and commit privileges. We may also be able to recruit so co-module
> maintainers; or get some of the unsupported modules picked up.
> I would be willing to contact the downstream projects; if the admin list
> thinks this is a good idea.

So you say, instead of the classic bug squash where we try to close as many
bugs as possible, we sit there and try to tutor new developers into fixing the
existing issues?

May work, at the same time the code we have today is the result of many
hands over many years and trying to address a large number of needs
The library is just not simple, it's not like you can tutor someone in
walking through it in a few hours.

Another interesting exercise could be to try and write docs describing what
a module does and and how. I'm pretty sure we'd find it difficult to explain
the internals and get ideas on how to make it better. At the same time,
good luck finding the time/funds to perform those changes....

Cheers
Andrea

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Andrea Aime
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Tech lead

Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054  Massarosa (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584 962313
fax:      +39 0584 962313

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
http://twitter.com/geowolf

-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Geotools-admin] new blood - bribery

[Andrea A. <and...@ge...>]

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...> wrote:
> The answer was bribery. E.g. someone serving on the Society's council for a
> year had their membership fees
> waived. Members responding to a call for assistance or advice went into the
> draw for a free book.
>
> In the context of GeoTools it would be good to think of inducements that can
> be offered to module maintainers and PMC members. Even token
> items such as a profile page on the web site might attract people (and it
> would be better than the current invisibility).
>
> Good thinking; our earlier draft of the website had such information; and
> indeed we collected information on who uses GeoTools as well.
> So we could start by:
> - restoring that content to the "get involved page" (or about page?)
> - We have something tasteful on the uDig site; listing the current PSC
> (http://udig.refractions.net/developers/) I think we could list those
> responsible for the supported modules?
> - With respect to organisations we could list those donating resources to
> the project (build boxes; PMC members; module maintainers, etc ...); and
> have a link to other commercial support offerings at the bottom. The uDig
> version of this page is here (http://udig.refractions.net/users/ for
> reference)
> - we could hold of listing users in trade for a white paper / case-study /
> blog post describing how the organisation uses GeoTools

All of the above could work in some way I guess.

Another thing that came to mind is the ultimate form of bribery: bug fixing.
That is, I'm certainly more inclined to help users that try to answer questions
on the user list, help with documentation, provide ready to try out bug reports
(data + little self contained program) than people just crying for help.
Just not sure how to word it, it's not like we can promise to fix a specific
bug within a specific time, but I guess people often don't realize they can
help in other ways (write a tutorial, something).

If they are not inclined to help in any way... well, I'm not too
inclined to help
back either. I'll thank for the bug report and fix it according to importance
to the project, existing customers, and generally speaking, what I feel like
doing on a Sunday.  May be quick (may have an idea, might find it affects
a lot of people) or may stay there for years (corner case that only that
user seems to hit).

Cheers
Andrea

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Andrea Aime
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Tech lead

Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054  Massarosa (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584 962313
fax:      +39 0584 962313

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
http://twitter.com/geowolf

-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Geotools-admin] new blood

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

And apparently one more idea - ask. 

I have asked Lee to work on the gt-csv module (unsupported module used for docs) and we will see how that goes.

Jody 

[Geotools-admin] new blood - committer sprint

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

The idea I had (which may or may not be good) is to have a small "Jira" party; normally these are devoted to closing as many bugs as can be closed. (Heck normally they are done by Andrea when I am not looking .... thank Andrea). 

The idea however would be to prep it up as a small code sprint; go and pester downstream projects, the user list, and so forth - and ask if they can spare some developers for the sprint. And focus on walking through the steps to submit a patch; get it reviewed; and for the keen get three patches reviewed and commit privileges. We may also be able to recruit so co-module maintainers; or get some of the unsupported modules picked up.

I would be willing to contact the downstream projects; if the admin list thinks this is a good idea.

Jody

[Geotools-admin] new blood - bribery

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

The answer was bribery. E.g. someone serving on the Society's council for a year had their membership fees
> waived. Members responding to a call for assistance or advice went into the draw for a free book.
> 
> In the context of GeoTools it would be good to think of inducements that can be offered to module maintainers and PMC members. Even token
> items such as a profile page on the web site might attract people (and it would be better than the current invisibility).
Good thinking; our earlier draft of the website had such information; and indeed we collected information on who uses GeoTools as well.

So we could start by:
- restoring that content to the "get involved page" (or about page?)
- We have something tasteful on the uDig site; listing the current PSC (http://udig.refractions.net/developers/) I think we could list those responsible for the supported modules?
- With respect to organisations we could list those donating resources to the project (build boxes; PMC members; module maintainers, etc ...); and have a link to other commercial support offerings at the bottom. The uDig version of this page is here (http://udig.refractions.net/users/ for reference)
- we could hold of listing users in trade for a white paper / case-study / blog post describing how the organisation uses GeoTools

I am not sure what else we have for incentive? Publicity seems pretty weak; when all we want to do is get back to work...

Jody 

Re: [Geotools-admin] new blood

[Michael B. <mic...@gm...>]

Hi Jody,

I think most open source projects suffer from the fact that it's a lot
easier to get users than contributors. It's a problem common to all
sorts of other voluntary enterprises as well.

Over and above that, if there is one particular thing that makes it
hard for GeoTools to lure new, long-term developers I'd say that it is
the sheer size and complexity of the library. I think your fantastic
work on the docs and tutorials will help a lot in that regard. They
are so much more accessible and informative than what was there
before.

As an aside: I used to be a council member on the Ecological Society
of Australia and, at council meetings, we would rack our brains trying
to figure out how to get society members more involved in running the
society, or attending AGMs etc. The answer was bribery. E.g. someone
serving on the Society's council for a year had their membership fees
waived. Members responding to a call for assistance or advice went
into the draw for a free book.

In the context of GeoTools it would be good to think of inducements
that can be offered to module maintainers and PMC members. Even token
items such as a profile page on the web site might attract people (and
it would be better than the current invisibility).

Michael


On 8 May 2011 09:18, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...> wrote:
> Morning all:
> One of the things that has been apparent to me, is that bringing new
> committers on board (such as Kenneth) has become too rare an occurrence. We
> also have left a couple of teams such as GeoMajas with interested
> developers; but no obvious path for participation.
> Phrased another way our existing developer pool is getting increasingly
> sucked into working on products upstream; and we have a host of other
> products and companies upstream (52N, GeoMajas, LISAsoft) that are not being
> successful (or perhaps interested) in taking on the work of GeoTools.
> One of the troubles is that it is very difficult to get involved:
> 1. submit three patches have them reviewed (the first one is always thrown
> away as they learn about JUnit)
> 2. get commit access
> 3. "win trust" and be nominated as a module maintainer
> I would love to say that this process is working; or that individuals get
> stuck stuck at the "win trust" step. Instead I see very little
> evidence/interest in starting the process. The whole myth of submitting a
> patch ands someone will get around to it.
> I have a couple of ideas; but would like to hear what people think.
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Geotools-administration mailing list
> Geo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
>
>

[Geotools-admin] new blood

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

Morning all:

One of the things that has been apparent to me, is that bringing new committers on board (such as Kenneth) has become too rare an occurrence. We also have left a couple of teams such as GeoMajas with interested developers; but no obvious path for participation.

Phrased another way our existing developer pool is getting increasingly sucked into working on products upstream; and we have a host of other products and companies upstream (52N, GeoMajas, LISAsoft) that are not being successful (or perhaps interested) in taking on the work of GeoTools.

One of the troubles is that it is very difficult to get involved:
1. submit three patches have them reviewed (the first one is always thrown away as they learn about JUnit)
2. get commit access
3. "win trust" and be nominated as a module maintainer

I would love to say that this process is working; or that individuals get stuck stuck at the "win trust" step. Instead I see very little evidence/interest in starting the process. The whole myth of submitting a patch ands someone will get around to it.

I have a couple of ideas; but would like to hear what people think.

-- 
Jody Garnett

Re: [Geotools-admin] blog posts

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

That was not worth it; planet.osgeo.org too the changes as edits :(

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...> wrote:

>  I have gone through and cleaned up some of the tags for our blog posts
> (had three tags for docs - one of them spelled wrong - no doubt my fault).
>
> In general for tags I am going for "release", "docs", "team" (for change of
> PMC, welcoming new comittteers etc...), and company specific tags as
> required (in case you want to thank your employer.
>
> In doing this I notice we have a couple of "draft" blog posts:
> - GeoTools now supporting JPEG2000 via Kakadu SDK
> - Database Improvements in 2.6.1
>
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>

Re: [Geotools-admin] wiki hidden

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

The haus chore to track this is here: http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/HAUS-2083

-- 
Jody Garnett

On Tuesday, 3 May 2011 at 7:29 PM, Jody Garnett wrote: 
> I have turned off view permissions for:
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTDOC/Home
> http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOT/Home
> 
> This should mean the above wiki spaces are only visible to members of our team (not general confluence users). Can I ask for verification please.
> 
> -- 
> Jody Garnett
> 
> 

[Geotools-admin] wiki hidden

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

I have turned off view permissions for:
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTDOC/Home
http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOT/Home

This should mean the above wiki spaces are only visible to members of our team (not general confluence users). Can I ask for verification please.

-- 
Jody Garnett

[Geotools-admin] PMC and new projects

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

Well we are also kind of reaching the point where the library is "good enough" that constant communication is not required.

We have had 52N, and then Geomajas take on GeoTools without making much of a ripple (or showing an interest in being part of the PMC).

Now it could be our procedures are good enough for stability that new groups do not "automatically" join the PMC to keep the library from scooting out from underneath them like the bad old days. But that is leaving a very cautious crew in charge around here; who have way too many horror stories about the build being down for weeks; or the test cases for filter never being updated or .... well you see my point.

One thing I would like to do is see if we can ease some new committers in via the "doc" module; I think the unsupported module is being a success (but we do not provide enough incentive to "finish").

I am not sure about you guys but I professionally run into teams (well 2-3 times a year) that have taken a private fork of GeoTools and hacked away madly on their own. For the most part these teams are being successful; but pay no attention to what the library is doing or improving on.

-- 
Jody Garnett

On Tuesday, 3 May 2011 at 6:34 PM, Michael Bedward wrote: 
> On 3 May 2011 16:40, Andrea Aime <and...@ge...> wrote:
> > Yeah... speaking of bias, I was thinking about it yesterday and
> > realized the last time
> > I've started from scratch a new GT app was like 5 years ago, and
> > before that it was
> > 8 years ago.
> > So that also is a strong bias, little care for newcomers and getting
> > the API easy/quick to
> > get started with.
> 
> Yes, good point. I hadn't thought about it like that.
> 
> On the other hand, aren't new OS projects that depend on GeoTools
> springing up fairly regularly ? I haven't checked but I would have
> thought so. And if that's the case, you'd expect to get feedback from
> them, even if only complaints when things don't work or are not easy
> enough.
> 
> But I guess it's also possible that projects similar to those that I
> work on are making use of other libraries. Once again, I haven't
> checked.
> 
> Michael
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network 
> management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial 
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Geotools-administration mailing list
> Geo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
> 

Re: [Geotools-admin] want to shut this list down?

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

sounds about right; I will note that this only works if the PMC members (at least) are signed up to this list :-)

-- 
Jody Garnett

On Tuesday, 3 May 2011 at 4:19 PM, Andrea Aime wrote: 
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Ian Turton <ijt...@gm...> wrote:
> > -0 from me, I'm not bothered but what's one more list to check?
> 
> Lots of +0/-0. Meh, what about just keep it but use it only for stuff
> that cannot possibly go on gt-devel then?
> 
> Cheers
> Andrea
> 
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Ing. Andrea Aime
> GeoSolutions S.A.S.
> Tech lead
> 
> Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
> 55054 Massarosa (LU)
> Italy
> 
> phone: +39 0584 962313
> fax: +39 0584 962313
> 
> http://www.geo-solutions.it
> http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
> http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
> http://twitter.com/geowolf
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 

[Geotools-admin] blog posts

[Jody G. <jod...@gm...>]

I have gone through and cleaned up some of the tags for our blog posts (had three tags for docs - one of them spelled wrong - no doubt my fault).

In general for tags I am going for "release", "docs", "team" (for change of PMC, welcoming new comittteers etc...), and company specific tags as required (in case you want to thank your employer.

In doing this I notice we have a couple of "draft" blog posts:
- GeoTools now supporting JPEG2000 via Kakadu SDK
- Database Improvements in 2.6.1


-- 
Jody Garnett

Re: [Geotools-admin] stepping down from PMC

[Michael B. <mic...@gm...>]

On 3 May 2011 16:40, Andrea Aime <and...@ge...> wrote:
> Yeah... speaking of bias, I was thinking about it yesterday and
> realized the last time
> I've started from scratch a new GT app was like 5 years ago, and
> before that it was
> 8 years ago.
> So that also is a strong bias, little care for newcomers and getting
> the API easy/quick to
> get started with.

Yes, good point. I hadn't thought about it like that.

On the other hand, aren't new OS projects that depend on GeoTools
springing up fairly regularly ?  I haven't checked but I would have
thought so.  And if that's the case, you'd expect to get feedback from
them, even if only complaints when things don't work or are not easy
enough.

But I guess it's also possible that projects similar to those that I
work on are making use of other libraries. Once again, I haven't
checked.

Michael

Re: [Geotools-admin] stepping down from PMC

[Andrea A. <and...@ge...>]

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Andrea Aime
<and...@ge...> wrote:
> I guess this is one bias that is shared among other developers as
> well, we do use and
> help grow GeoTools only in long lived projects, what we have mostly in
> mind is how to
> reasonably get from N to N+1

(sent by mistake before finishing)

reasonably get from N to N+1, but there is little perspective on starting from 0

Cheers
Andrea


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Andrea Aime
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Tech lead

Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054  Massarosa (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584 962313
fax:      +39 0584 962313

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
http://twitter.com/geowolf

-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Geotools-admin] stepping down from PMC

[Andrea A. <and...@ge...>]

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 4:40 AM, Michael Bedward
<mic...@gm...> wrote:
> Thanks for the kind words Justin - much appreciated.
>
> Andrea: size isn't everything :)

Yeah... speaking of bias, I was thinking about it yesterday and
realized the last time
I've started from scratch a new GT app was like 5 years ago, and
before that it was
8 years ago.
So that also is a strong bias, little care for newcomers and getting
the API easy/quick to
get started with.

I guess this is one bias that is shared among other developers as
well, we do use and
help grow GeoTools only in long lived projects, what we have mostly in
mind is how to
reasonably get from N to N+1

Cheers
Andrea


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Andrea Aime
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Tech lead

Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054  Massarosa (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584 962313
fax:      +39 0584 962313

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
http://twitter.com/geowolf

-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Geotools-admin] want to shut this list down?

[Andrea A. <and...@ge...>]

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Ian Turton <ijt...@gm...> wrote:
> -0 from me, I'm not bothered but what's one more list to check?

Lots of +0/-0. Meh, what about just keep it but use it only for stuff
that cannot possibly go on gt-devel then?

Cheers
Andrea


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Andrea Aime
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Tech lead

Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054  Massarosa (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584 962313
fax:      +39 0584 962313

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
http://twitter.com/geowolf

-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Geotools-admin] stepping down from PMC

[Michael B. <mic...@gm...>]

Thanks for the kind words Justin - much appreciated.

Andrea: size isn't everything :)

Michael

Re: [Geotools-admin] want to shut this list down?

[Ian T. <ijt...@gm...>]

-0 from me, I'm not bothered but what's one more list to check?

Ian

Re: [Geotools-admin] stepping down from PMC

[Andrea A. <and...@ge...>]

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Justin Deoliveira <jde...@op...> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> This is definitely unfortunate news for GeoTools as your contribution to the
> project, and i am not just talking code here, has been extraordinary.
> I do however somewhat disagree with the notion that a PMC member should be
> required to have knowledge in every major subsystem of the code. Its just
> not practical given the size of the code base. Me for instance... I know
> literally nothing about referencing, rendering, and raster data which is a
> huge chunk of the code base.

Very much agree, nobody here has a vision of the entire code base.
But more importantly, nobody has a perspective on all the possible usages
of the library.
I tend to go for large data, high scalability and performance, I like
to keep the
code simple too and do not care much about ease of use in the small data size
cases. This bias is evident in the modules that I work on.
That is not a good thing, but that's who I am and thus what I put in code if
no one else brings different perspectives in.

Different perspective means friction, although normally also means better
code and the end of the (sometimes painful) discussion process.

Cheers
Andrea

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Andrea Aime
GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Tech lead

Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
55054  Massarosa (LU)
Italy

phone: +39 0584 962313
fax:      +39 0584 962313

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
http://twitter.com/geowolf

-------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Geotools-admin] want to shut this list down?

[<chr...@nv...>]

+0, I have the same feeling as Justin

Quoting Justin Deoliveira <jde...@op...>:

> +0. No strong opinion here.
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Simone Giannecchini <
> sim...@ge...> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Andrea Aime
>> <and...@ge...> wrote:
>> > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>> >> geotools-devel is sufficiently low volume that we could consider
>> shutting
>> >> this list down; I know we set up this email list to talk about proposals
>> and
>> >> policy; but it seems we end up doing that on geotools-devel anyways (as
>> we
>> >> are interested in the feedback from our committers)
>> >
>> > +1 for the same reason Ben mentioned, especially since the ml is fully
>> public
>> > and archived:
>> > http://osgeo-org.1803224.n2.nabble.com/geotools-admin-f1969106.html
>> >
>> > I see the value of a admin list for private stuff and fore pure admin
>> stuff,
>> > at the same time it seems to be the admin list is at the moment overused.
>> > Maybe we could keep it but specify strict rules of how to use it?
>> >
>>
>> that sounds like a good idea. Anyway, if everybody is happy with
>> shutting the list down, I am not "so" against it.
>>
>> > Cheers
>> > Andrea
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > -------------------------------------------------------
>> > Ing. Andrea Aime
>> > GeoSolutions S.A.S.
>> > Tech lead
>> >
>> > Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
>> > 55054  Massarosa (LU)
>> > Italy
>> >
>> > phone: +39 0584 962313
>> > fax:      +39 0584 962313
>> >
>> > http://www.geo-solutions.it
>> > http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
>> > http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
>> > http://twitter.com/geowolf
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>> > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>> > management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>> > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Geotools-administration mailing list
>> > Geo...@li...
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
>> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
>> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
>> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
>> _______________________________________________
>> Geotools-administration mailing list
>> Geo...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Justin Deoliveira
> OpenGeo - http://opengeo.org
> Enterprise support for open source geospatial.
>



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Re: [Geotools-admin] want to shut this list down?

[Justin D. <jde...@op...>]

+0. No strong opinion here.

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:39 AM, Simone Giannecchini <
sim...@ge...> wrote:

> On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Andrea Aime
> <and...@ge...> wrote:
> > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:25 AM, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...>
> wrote:
> >> geotools-devel is sufficiently low volume that we could consider
> shutting
> >> this list down; I know we set up this email list to talk about proposals
> and
> >> policy; but it seems we end up doing that on geotools-devel anyways (as
> we
> >> are interested in the feedback from our committers)
> >
> > +1 for the same reason Ben mentioned, especially since the ml is fully
> public
> > and archived:
> > http://osgeo-org.1803224.n2.nabble.com/geotools-admin-f1969106.html
> >
> > I see the value of a admin list for private stuff and fore pure admin
> stuff,
> > at the same time it seems to be the admin list is at the moment overused.
> > Maybe we could keep it but specify strict rules of how to use it?
> >
>
> that sounds like a good idea. Anyway, if everybody is happy with
> shutting the list down, I am not "so" against it.
>
> > Cheers
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> > --
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Ing. Andrea Aime
> > GeoSolutions S.A.S.
> > Tech lead
> >
> > Via Poggio alle Viti 1187
> > 55054  Massarosa (LU)
> > Italy
> >
> > phone: +39 0584 962313
> > fax:      +39 0584 962313
> >
> > http://www.geo-solutions.it
> > http://geo-solutions.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.youtube.com/user/GeoSolutionsIT
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/andreaaime
> > http://twitter.com/geowolf
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> > management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
> > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> > _______________________________________________
> > Geotools-administration mailing list
> > Geo...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Geotools-administration mailing list
> Geo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
>



-- 
Justin Deoliveira
OpenGeo - http://opengeo.org
Enterprise support for open source geospatial.

Re: [Geotools-admin] stepping down from PMC

[Justin D. <jde...@op...>]

Hi Michael,

This is definitely unfortunate news for GeoTools as your contribution to the
project, and i am not just talking code here, has been extraordinary.

I do however somewhat disagree with the notion that a PMC member should be
required to have knowledge in every major subsystem of the code. Its just
not practical given the size of the code base. Me for instance... I know
literally nothing about referencing, rendering, and raster data which is a
huge chunk of the code base.

That said I support your decision of course but hope that after some time
away from the PMC you will consider rejoining. Maybe we can work on
improving the PMC process in the meantime.

Thanks for everything.

-Justin

On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Michael Bedward
<mic...@gm...>wrote:

> Thanks for those words Simone and Jody. They don't alter my decision
> but I appreciate them.
>
> Regarding perspective and balance: I'm less sure about this than I was
> when I took up the role. It's probably true that my projects and
> interests are different to most, perhaps all, of the other PMC members
> and core developers, being based around desktop apps, local file
> system data etc. This reflects the nature of my particular field
> (species ecology). However, I don't think I've been effective in
> providing alternative or complementary design perspectives or
> development emphases. Instead, recent exchanges on and off the
> developers' list have made me feel increasingly out of touch, and
> concerned that my input can sometimes be more of a hindrance than a
> contribution.
>
> Regardless of particular interests and objectives, I think a PMC
> member must have a high enough level of technical expertise to see and
> understand the big picture, including those aspects of the project
> outside their everyday domain. That's not me. My own programming is
> only ever a means to an end, and a small part of what I actually get
> paid for (research and policy output). I don't work on production
> systems - most of my code is for transient research use. In any case,
> I'm no longer sure that it's feasible or desirable for GeoTools, as a
> single project, to try to cover use cases that are outside the domain
> of the current developers. There are so few people, already doing so
> much.
>
> As for me, I will still be hanging around on the user list, helping
> out where I can and, at long last, putting some time into the long
> list of user requests and complaints about the swing module.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On 2 May 2011 09:31, Jody Garnett <jod...@gm...> wrote:
> > I would echo Simone's comments about leadership; indeed your perspective
> is
> > often what is needed to balance the PMC. The danger is that too much of
> the
> > library will be driven by XML, JDBC, Complex features (who understands
> that
> > yet?), OSGi (or that) etc...
> > However I do thank you for participating in the committee; and look
> forward
> > to hacking away with you on gt-swing and gt-process.
> >
> > --
> > Jody Garnett
> >
> > On Saturday, 30 April 2011 at 11:30 AM, Michael Bedward wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > As the subject says, I have decided to step down from the GeoTools
> > PMC. There are a number of reasons, chief among them being that I have
> > never felt properly qualified for the role. I've been finding that
> > much of the discussion on the developers' list is outside my limited
> > domain (e.g. almost anything to do with XML, JDBC, complex features
> > and GeoServer) and reviewing my voting history there are a lot of
> > zeroes. Accordingly, I will feel more comfortable with the status of
> > involved user than PMC member.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone for the support I've received during my time on the
> PMC.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> > The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> > management toolset available today. Delivers lowest initial
> > acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> > _______________________________________________
> > Geotools-administration mailing list
> > Geo...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WhatsUp Gold - Download Free Network Management Software
> The most intuitive, comprehensive, and cost-effective network
> management toolset available today.  Delivers lowest initial
> acquisition cost and overall TCO of any competing solution.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/whatsupgold-sd
> _______________________________________________
> Geotools-administration mailing list
> Geo...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geotools-administration
>



-- 
Justin Deoliveira
OpenGeo - http://opengeo.org
Enterprise support for open source geospatial.