geniustrader-devel — participate in geniustrader development, ask for help, suggest improvements, etc

[GT] Re: Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Chia-liang K. <cl...@cl...>]

Hi all,

Allow me to add something while we talk about version control systems.
 I am currently using git against the GT svn repository, while i am
trying hard to get many of my patches back, not because the main
repository is a central repository that I am forced to merge back like
thomas said, but it's because i want my changes to be useful to
others, and collaborate on the same main line in the future.  If a
contributor somehow does not want to get his changes back, it's more a
social issue of than a technical issue caused by the tools.

Personally I prefer to see the official repository to be in git, where
all the committers can push to like a central repository.  while
contributors can maintain their changes more sanely (which they can do
with git against svn anyway), the eventual merge on the mainline
records more meta data.  And it does make accepting patches easier for
the maintainers and attract more contributors IMO.

Now back to GT itself.  I think it's a great toolbox like others
mentioned, that we can build flexible system/ui atop of it, and the
core should stay this way with lots of tests and cleaner internals/API
for people to keep building things on it.  Whether other improvements
become part of GT is another story for the developers to agree on
later.

Cheers,
CLK

2009/10/16 Thomas Weigert <we...@ms...>:
> Erik,
>
> as you know, I think we should stay with svn.
>
> Git (or Mercurial, which is probably better) are distributed version control
> systems. They work great when you have a situation where developers work
> disconnected from the "main" repository, do their own version management on
> that branch, and eventually merge it back.
>
> The big risk there is that developers work too long on their own repository
> so that eventually the branch does not come back any more.
>
> Because svn is a single repository system, branching is still within the
> same repository and developers are forced to merge back to the trunk more
> regularly.
>
> I don't think we are in a situation where we would be benefiting form the
> advantages offered from distributed version control (developers disconnected
> but able to version manage their branch) but we will be suffering from its
> disadvantages (no central repository).
>
> Your struggles, I believe, had nothing to do with git or svn, but with the
> fact that you were not allowed to check in.
>
> Best regards, Th.
>
> Erik Colson wrote:
>
> Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>
> Le jeudi 15 octobre 2009, Thomas Weigert a écrit :
>
>
> I think we should continue in above two pronged mode for the time being
> until a
> community process develops. As for that I propose that everybody who desires
> gets immediate access to the CPAN branch. Robert will continue to maintain
> the
> trunk.
>
>
> I don't want to bother with partial commit access. Once commit access is
> granted, the contributor can commit anywhere, of course we can have a
> policy of requiring Robert's approval for trunk, but it would not be
> enforced by technical means.
>
>
>
> I would prefer if you were to permit the quick access for developers to the
> CPAN branch, so that I can abandon the mirror.
>
>
> So what account shall I create ?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Hi Raphael,
>
> Would be great if I could commit directly to the CPAN branch.
> I'll resume coding around 20th octobre and hope finish a release of
> Finance::GeniusTrader to CPAN by the end of the month ;)
>
> As you mentioned it kindly ;) and since you are at the start of
> GeniusTrader, it would be great to have the repo officially ported to your
> Git host :)
> As Thomas will agree, I struggled to death when starting the CPAN branch,
> and my biggest fear is to loose dev time again syncing with the repo again
> ....
>
> You might consider the alternative of putting the repo on Github. Works
> great and has very nice graphs, wiki etc. and it's free also !
>
> regards
>
> --
> Erik Colson
>
> http://www.ecocode.net

[GT] Re: Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ou...>]

Le vendredi 16 octobre 2009, Erik Colson a écrit :
> >Your struggles, I believe, had nothing to do with git or svn, but
> >with the fact that you were not allowed to check in.
> Yep, I know. But it was soooo painful I still have nightmares about it.
> And as Raphael talked about Git, I thought I could push a little more ;)

I like git as well, but really anyone able to use git should be able to
use svn without troubles. And I'd expect those people to use git svn
to commit on a SVN repository.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] Re: Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Erik C. <ec...@ec...>]

Ehlo Thomas !

Thomas Weigert wrote:
> Erik,
>
> as you know, I think we should stay with svn.
yep
>
> Git (or Mercurial, which is probably better) are distributed version 
> control systems. They work great when you have a situation where 
> developers work disconnected from the "main" repository, do their own 
> version management on that branch, and eventually merge it back.
>
> The big risk there is that developers work too long on their own 
> repository so that eventually the branch does not come back any more.
>
> Because svn is a single repository system, branching is still within 
> the same repository and developers are forced to merge back to the 
> trunk more regularly.
>
> I don't think we are in a situation where we would be benefiting form 
> the advantages offered from distributed version control (developers 
> disconnected but able to version manage their branch) but we will be 
> suffering from its disadvantages (no central repository).
Here I don't agree. Look at projects as big as the Linux Kernel, the 
Perl language, etc and as small as Finance::Quote. They all use Git. The 
projects are actually boosting since Git's introduction, developers 
enjoy it ! Really, you should give Git a try ;)

> Your struggles, I believe, had nothing to do with git or svn, but with 
> the fact that you were not allowed to check in.
Yep, I know. But it was soooo painful I still have nightmares about it.
And as Raphael talked about Git, I thought I could push a little more ;)

-- 
Erik Colson

http://www.ecocode.net

[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Thomas W. <we...@ms...>]

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Erik,<br>
<br>
as you know, I think we should stay with svn.<br>
<br>
Git (or Mercurial, which is probably better) are distributed version
control systems. They work great when you have a situation where
developers work disconnected from the "main" repository, do their own
version management on that branch, and eventually merge it back. <br>
<br>
The big risk there is that developers work too long on their own
repository so that eventually the branch does not come back any more.<br>
<br>
Because svn is a single repository system, branching is still within
the same repository and developers are forced to merge back to the
trunk more regularly.<br>
<br>
I don't think we are in a situation where we would be benefiting form
the advantages offered from distributed version control (developers
disconnected but able to version manage their branch) but we will be
suffering from its disadvantages (no central repository).<br>
<br>
Your struggles, I believe, had nothing to do with git or svn, but with
the fact that you were not allowed to check in.<br>
<br>
Best regards, Th.<br>
<br>
Erik Colson wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4AD...@ec..." type="cite">
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
  <blockquote cite="mid:20091015152943.GC21621@rivendell" type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Le jeudi 15 octobre 2009, Thomas Weigert a &eacute;crit :
  </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">I think we should continue in above two pronged mode for the time being until a
community process develops. As for that I propose that everybody who desires
gets immediate access to the CPAN branch. Robert will continue to maintain the
trunk.
    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!---->
I don't want to bother with partial commit access. Once commit access is
granted, the contributor can commit anywhere, of course we can have a
policy of requiring Robert's approval for trunk, but it would not be
enforced by technical means.

  </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">I would prefer if you were to permit the quick access for developers to the
CPAN branch, so that I can abandon the mirror.
    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!---->
So what account shall I create ?

Cheers,
  </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi Raphael,<br>
  <br>
Would be great if I could commit directly to the CPAN branch.<br>
I'll resume coding around 20th octobre and hope finish a release of
Finance::GeniusTrader to CPAN by the end of the month ;)<br>
  <br>
As you mentioned it kindly ;) and since you are at the start of
GeniusTrader, it would be great to have the repo officially ported to
your Git host :)<br>
As Thomas will agree, I struggled to death when starting the CPAN
branch, and my biggest fear is to loose dev time again syncing with the
repo again ....<br>
  <br>
You might consider the alternative of putting the repo on Github. Works
great and has very nice graphs, wiki etc. and it's free also !<br>
  <br>
regards<br>
  </font><br>
  <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Erik Colson

<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
 href="http://www.ecocode.net">http://www.ecocode.net</a></pre>
</blockquote>
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[GT] Re: Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ge...>]

Hello,

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009, Erik Colson wrote:
> Would be great if I could commit directly to the CPAN branch.
> I'll resume coding around 20th octobre and hope finish a release of
> Finance::GeniusTrader to CPAN by the end of the month ;)

I granted an SVN account to Erik.

> As you mentioned it kindly ;) and since you are at the start of GeniusTrader,
> it would be great to have the repo officially ported to your Git host :)
> As Thomas will agree, I struggled to death when starting the CPAN branch, and
> my biggest fear is to loose dev time again syncing with the repo again ....
> 
> You might consider the alternative of putting the repo on Github. Works great
> and has very nice graphs, wiki etc. and it's free also !

I don't mind how the project goes further. I have made a suggestion but I
would like the current contributors to find an agreement, I don't want to
impose anything.

So state your preferences and your reasoning, and pick together a
consensual choice. You could even decide to continue with the current
setup if that satisfies you. However, moving to another place would
probably be better in the sense that you could have more control
on the whole setup as I won't give unix accounts on my own machine.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Erik C. <ec...@ec...>]

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<head>
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Raphael Hertzog wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20091015152943.GC21621@rivendell" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Le jeudi 15 octobre 2009, Thomas Weigert a &eacute;crit :
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">I think we should continue in above two pronged mode for the time being until a
community process develops. As for that I propose that everybody who desires
gets immediate access to the CPAN branch. Robert will continue to maintain the
trunk.
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
I don't want to bother with partial commit access. Once commit access is
granted, the contributor can commit anywhere, of course we can have a
policy of requiring Robert's approval for trunk, but it would not be
enforced by technical means.

  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">I would prefer if you were to permit the quick access for developers to the
CPAN branch, so that I can abandon the mirror.
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
So what account shall I create ?

Cheers,
  </pre>
</blockquote>
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi Raphael,<br>
<br>
Would be great if I could commit directly to the CPAN branch.<br>
I'll resume coding around 20th octobre and hope finish a release of
Finance::GeniusTrader to CPAN by the end of the month ;)<br>
<br>
As you mentioned it kindly ;) and since you are at the start of
GeniusTrader, it would be great to have the repo officially ported to
your Git host :)<br>
As Thomas will agree, I struggled to death when starting the CPAN
branch, and my biggest fear is to loose dev time again syncing with the
repo again ....<br>
<br>
You might consider the alternative of putting the repo on Github. Works
great and has very nice graphs, wiki etc. and it's free also !<br>
<br>
regards<br>
</font><br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Erik Colson

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ecocode.net">http://www.ecocode.net</a></pre>
</body>
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[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ge...>]

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009, João Costa wrote:
> And this is where my idea on what the future of GT should be comes in. I
> think it should be an online application running in a hosted environment.

I think this should not be exclusive. I have designed GT to be
super-flexible for power traders to be able to do/try out whatever
new ideas they have. Indeed, that means that the user interface
is rather tricky for most people.

That said, I also envisioned some associated web service when I was working on
GT, it just never happened.

So, I'm all for this new user interface, just ensure that you don't remove
the flexibility in the underlying system.

(No I'm not volunteering to help, I am far from doing any stock market
investment currently)

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Erik C. <ec...@ec...>]

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Thomas Weigert wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4AD...@ms..." type="cite">
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
The CPAN branch will go a great way in making it easier to get started.
Maybe the features that you and Chia Liang are talking about can help
bring the "develop a system" people in as well...<br>
  <br>
I would love to see the web-based trading system that you are talking
about. But I do hope that it will be on the existing infrastructure, so
that those who want to use GT as analysis engine can also benefit from
that innovation....<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Hi all,<br>
<br>
I will get this very short :)<br>
I agree with Thomas, Jo&atilde;o and Chia-liang. Those opinions are not really
contradictions but a bunch of ideas which, brought together, will make
GT a fantastic Trading System Builder _and_ make it usable to more
users.<br>
That's one of the reasons I started the CPAN porting. Keeping the power
of GT intact, but making it available to other projects as a CPAN
module. I felt this as a requirement to use GT with my two other
modules: Finance::Quote (for querying internet sites) and
Finance::QuoteDB (for storing those quotes in a database). F::QDB is
already usable (and used) in conjunction with GT.<br>
Once these 3 modules (GT, FQ, FQDB) are stable and on CPAN, my idea was
starting a project as Finance::GUI, but it won't hurt to have
Finance::WebGUI (Chia-liang) or Finance::CLI (more the way of Thomas)
etc...<br>
<br>
Guess if we look at it from the outside, we all seem to want the same ;)<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Erik Colson

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ecocode.net">http://www.ecocode.net</a></pre>
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[GT] Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Thomas W. <we...@ms...>]

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Jo&atilde;o,<br>
<br>
thanks for sharing your story and your feeling about the project.<br>
<br>
I'll try to give my 2c....<br>
<br>
I disagree with your assessment because I have a totally different
understanding of the goals of GT.... hear me out..... <br>
<br>
I personally use GT because it is the way it is, warts and
complications and all.... There are indeed much easier to use free or
commercial charting tools, even tools that evaluate trading systems.
However, that is not what I think GT is. GT is a platform to build your
own trading software. The scripts that exist are just examples, I
think, of what one can do.<br>
<br>
I have used several other such software, most extensively some
commercial products. But these products do not really help me. They let
me write a little function that I can use to evaluate whether to trade
or not, or to backtest. But they do not allow me to write complex
systems that involve multiple markets, do cross market analysis, etc.<br>
<br>
GT supports all that beautifully. Yes, you need to understand how to
write the application that does that for you, but there is a lot of
infrastructure there to do so. I have implemented quite an extensive
analysis system on top of GT in that manner. It is very unique to the
way I invest (I run my own quantitative hedge fund, so to speak). I
could not have implemented that analysis on any other of the freely
available platforms as easy, and certainly not on any of the commercial
products that I can afford.<br>
<br>
So my take is different. I think that most GT users (those that are
left over) are like me. They have built an investing platform on top of
GT. They don't discuss on the system traders list, as these
applications are unique and cannot easily be compared. But they discuss
on the developers list, as there is still plenty to fix.<br>
<br>
I believe you are correct that those who look at GT as a Metastock
equivalent will be disappointed. But to be honest, it is actually not
that bad as is compared to Metastock, except that Metastock is better
in dealing with the graphics, of course. <br>
<br>
OK. All that said, I think that the goals that you describe can be
satisfied by the GT platform also. I think that GT will easily support
the web-based application I understand you envision. In fact, I run my
analysis every night on a server and generate the results so that I can
review them on the web. It would be just a small step to an interactive
mode.<br>
<br>
Chia Liang's ideas of interactive charting are great as well, and
should be feasible to implement.<br>
<br>
The CPAN branch will go a great way in making it easier to get started.
Maybe the features that you and Chia Liang are talking about can help
bring the "develop a system" people in as well...<br>
<br>
I would love to see the web-based trading system that you are talking
about. But I do hope that it will be on the existing infrastructure, so
that those who want to use GT as analysis engine can also benefit from
that innovation....<br>
<br>
Best regards, Th.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jo&atilde;o Costa wrote:
<blockquote
 cite="mid:d8e...@ma..."
 type="cite">
  <div>OK, this is a bit of a long one, so, grab a cup of whatever your
favourite beverage, and stay with me here for a minute :)</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>I've been quietly following on the background the latest
developments in the GT world with interest.
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>While I stopped contributing since about one year ago, GT is in
a way a very special project to me. &nbsp;Before my first contribution to
the project, I had read maybe one online perl tutorial. &nbsp;Today I hold a
full time job as a perl developer for an organization offering hosted
application services, and my experience in contributing to GT was
essential for that.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>I suppose my reasons for having stopped contributing might have
been because I felt the project was going nowhere and I didn't feel
capable of changing that. &nbsp;We got stuck with old processes, innovation
didn't seem to happen, and in general, there was simply no direction or
coordination of efforts in where to go.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>But if I drill further down, my real reason for quitting was
that I just don't believe in the concept. &nbsp;GT was always a hard
application to use. &nbsp;First you have to install it which often proved
difficult for many people. &nbsp;Then you need to setup a data source and
keep it up to date. &nbsp;If you're doing stocks, this means dealing with
things like splits as well.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Quite a few people will have given up by now. &nbsp;Only if you're
one of the minority who made it past these hurdles can you start
thinking back on why did you want to install GT in the first place ?
Right, to build trading systems. So now you start mucking around with
the scripts, except often times they don't work in an obvious way and
you find yourself mucking through perl code instead of writing your
trading system.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Which in part I think explains why we have some traffic in the
devel list, but none in the system traders list. &nbsp;They've all given up
by now! All that's left is us, the developers :) And in my view that is
what's fundamentally wrong with GT. It's an application with a target
audience completely different than the people who actually use it.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Now, I realize there seem to be some ideas out there which I
believe have great potential. &nbsp;<span class="Apple-style-span"
 style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Chia-liang
mentioned adapting GT for real time trading, I think this is superb.
&nbsp;He also mentioned making GT development more agile and test driven, in
my opinion, spot on. &nbsp;There's the CPAN effort which seems to be driven
mostly by Erik with some great help from Thomas and Robert, who on top
of that have been tireless in giving a helping hand to newcomers, and
these among contributions by other people whom I'll have to fail to
mention.</span></div>
  <div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="'Times New Roman'"><span
 class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><br>
  </span></font></div>
  <div><span class="Apple-style-span"
 style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">But to me
the fundamental flaw remains. &nbsp;The entry barriers are just too high
from the IT side. &nbsp;Even if you are the super guru of trading systems,
you're unlikely to ever use GT unless you hire an IT team to run and
manage it.</span></div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>And this is where my idea on what the future of GT should be
comes in. I think it should be an online application running in a
hosted environment. &nbsp;All the setting up would only have to be done once
by us, IT geeks. &nbsp;The people out there who actually want to setup, test
and run trading system could focus on their area of expertise. &nbsp;And in
the end I believe we could have an application with a defined target
audience and some great potential going forward.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>I know there are some technical and logistical challenges in
making something like this work, but to be honest, I deal with this
kind of thing everyday. It can be done, and it can be successful. But
it does require a concentrated effort by a willing team. &nbsp;If I could
find a few people willing to work on this I'd love to put my best
effort into it, so, anyone interested ?</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>If on the other hand people generally decide to go on working in
a desktop application, I'll just keep watching from the sidelines, but
let me give you my sincere best wishes for the future of the project.</div>
  <div><br>
  </div>
  <div>Jo&atilde;o</div>
  </div>
  <br>
  <br>
  <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Raphael
Hertzog <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:ra...@ge...">ra...@ge...</a>&gt;</span>
wrote:<br>
  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
 style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">(Please
keep me in CC on replies as I don't really read the list)<br>
    <br>
Hello,<br>
    <br>
Chia-liang Kao mailed me recently to be granted commit access to<br>
GeniusTrader. I'm glad that the project seems to take off after<br>
having languished so many years.<br>
    <br>
However, even if I initiated the project, I'm not really leading it any<br>
more. Except me 4 persons have commit access nowadays:<br>
- joao: Jo&atilde;o Costa &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:joa...@zo...">joa...@zo...</a>&gt;
(last seen in 2008)<br>
- olf: Oliver Bossert &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:ol...@ol...">ol...@ol...</a>&gt; (last seen in
2006)<br>
- ras: "Robert A. Schmied" &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:ra...@ac...">ra...@ac...</a>&gt; (active)<br>
- thomas: Thomas Weigert &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="mailto:we...@ms...">we...@ms...</a>&gt; (active)<br>
    <br>
I don't want to be a blocker for the project so I would suggest to move<br>
the project on a forge so that I'm no longer the sole project admin that<br>
can grant commit access.<br>
    <br>
As part of my Debian work, I happen to be administrator of the<br>
    <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://alioth.debian.org"
 target="_blank">http://alioth.debian.org</a> forge so if that forge
could suit you, I'd be<br>
glad to move the project there. It supports all modern VCS that could<br>
be of interest for the project (SVN, Git, bzr, hg, ...).<br>
    <br>
What do you think ? (Input from the new contributors who have no commit<br>
access is welcome too)<br>
    <br>
Thomas and Robert, if you think that I should immediately grant commit<br>
access to some new contributors, please tell me and I'll create them<br>
an SVN account.<br>
    <br>
Cheers,<br>
    <font color="#888888">--<br>
Rapha&euml;l Hertzog -+- <a moz-do-not-send="true"
 href="http://www.ouaza.com" target="_blank">http://www.ouaza.com</a><br>
    <br>
Freexian : des d&eacute;veloppeurs Debian au service des entreprises<br>
    <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.freexian.com"
 target="_blank">http://www.freexian.com</a><br>
    </font></blockquote>
  </div>
  <br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Chia-liang K. <cl...@cl...>]

Hi Joao!

2009/10/16 João Costa <joa...@zo...>:
> But to me the fundamental flaw remains.  The entry barriers are just too
> high from the IT side.  Even if you are the super guru of trading systems,
> you're unlikely to ever use GT unless you hire an IT team to run and manage
> it.
> And this is where my idea on what the future of GT should be comes in. I
> think it should be an online application running in a hosted environment.
>  All the setting up would only have to be done once by us, IT geeks.  The
> people out there who actually want to setup, test and run trading system
> could focus on their area of expertise.  And in the end I believe we could
> have an application with a defined target audience and some great potential
> going forward.

Actually I did think about making the GT UI web-based to improve
desktop usability, like the remedie media server, which is written in
perl as well.  my own itch related to this is probably the charting
engine - if you chart something wider than your screen it's impossible
to figure out the actual numbers on the curve.  My plan is to write a
simple rest or jsonrpc server that does the indicator calc, and render
everything with raphael.js (js svg library) so we can have some
interactive charting in browsers.  The concept surely can apply to
other parts of configuration, such as setting up quoting sources (I
think qtstalker has quite decent UI for that) and visual programming
like UI for defining the trading system DSL.

IMHO improving usability doesn't necessarily have to be running in a
hosted environment, however I would be interested in developing this
kind of service.  I think it's a great idea, but a little bit out of
the scope of an open source project.  The improvements on general
usability and building UI based on web technology will enable someone
in the community to run such as service (either free or not)
eventually.

> I know there are some technical and logistical challenges in making
> something like this work, but to be honest, I deal with this kind of thing
> everyday. It can be done, and it can be successful. But it does require a
> concentrated effort by a willing team.  If I could find a few people willing
> to work on this I'd love to put my best effort into it, so, anyone
> interested ?
> If on the other hand people generally decide to go on working in a desktop
> application, I'll just keep watching from the sidelines, but let me give you
> my sincere best wishes for the future of the project.
> João
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Raphael Hertzog <ra...@ge...>
> wrote:
>>
>> (Please keep me in CC on replies as I don't really read the list)
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Chia-liang Kao mailed me recently to be granted commit access to
>> GeniusTrader. I'm glad that the project seems to take off after
>> having languished so many years.
>>
>> However, even if I initiated the project, I'm not really leading it any
>> more. Except me 4 persons have commit access nowadays:
>> - joao: João Costa <joa...@zo...> (last seen in 2008)
>> - olf: Oliver Bossert <ol...@ol...> (last seen in 2006)
>> - ras: "Robert A. Schmied" <ra...@ac...> (active)
>> - thomas: Thomas Weigert <we...@ms...> (active)
>>
>> I don't want to be a blocker for the project so I would suggest to move
>> the project on a forge so that I'm no longer the sole project admin that
>> can grant commit access.
>>
>> As part of my Debian work, I happen to be administrator of the
>> http://alioth.debian.org forge so if that forge could suit you, I'd be
>> glad to move the project there. It supports all modern VCS that could
>> be of interest for the project (SVN, Git, bzr, hg, ...).
>>
>> What do you think ? (Input from the new contributors who have no commit
>> access is welcome too)
>>
>> Thomas and Robert, if you think that I should immediately grant commit
>> access to some new contributors, please tell me and I'll create them
>> an SVN account.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com
>>
>> Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
>> http://www.freexian.com
>
>

[GT] Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[João C. <joa...@zo...>]

OK, this is a bit of a long one, so, grab a cup of whatever your favourite
beverage, and stay with me here for a minute :)

I've been quietly following on the background the latest developments in the
GT world with interest.
While I stopped contributing since about one year ago, GT is in a way a very
special project to me.  Before my first contribution to the project, I had
read maybe one online perl tutorial.  Today I hold a full time job as a perl
developer for an organization offering hosted application services, and my
experience in contributing to GT was essential for that.

I suppose my reasons for having stopped contributing might have been because
I felt the project was going nowhere and I didn't feel capable of changing
that.  We got stuck with old processes, innovation didn't seem to happen,
and in general, there was simply no direction or coordination of efforts in
where to go.

But if I drill further down, my real reason for quitting was that I just
don't believe in the concept.  GT was always a hard application to use.
 First you have to install it which often proved difficult for many people.
 Then you need to setup a data source and keep it up to date.  If you're
doing stocks, this means dealing with things like splits as well.

Quite a few people will have given up by now.  Only if you're one of the
minority who made it past these hurdles can you start thinking back on why
did you want to install GT in the first place ? Right, to build trading
systems. So now you start mucking around with the scripts, except often
times they don't work in an obvious way and you find yourself mucking
through perl code instead of writing your trading system.

Which in part I think explains why we have some traffic in the devel list,
but none in the system traders list.  They've all given up by now! All
that's left is us, the developers :) And in my view that is what's
fundamentally wrong with GT. It's an application with a target audience
completely different than the people who actually use it.

Now, I realize there seem to be some ideas out there which I believe have
great potential.  Chia-liang mentioned adapting GT for real time trading, I
think this is superb.  He also mentioned making GT development more agile
and test driven, in my opinion, spot on.  There's the CPAN effort which
seems to be driven mostly by Erik with some great help from Thomas and
Robert, who on top of that have been tireless in giving a helping hand to
newcomers, and these among contributions by other people whom I'll have to
fail to mention.

But to me the fundamental flaw remains.  The entry barriers are just too
high from the IT side.  Even if you are the super guru of trading systems,
you're unlikely to ever use GT unless you hire an IT team to run and manage
it.

And this is where my idea on what the future of GT should be comes in. I
think it should be an online application running in a hosted environment.
 All the setting up would only have to be done once by us, IT geeks.  The
people out there who actually want to setup, test and run trading system
could focus on their area of expertise.  And in the end I believe we could
have an application with a defined target audience and some great potential
going forward.

I know there are some technical and logistical challenges in making
something like this work, but to be honest, I deal with this kind of thing
everyday. It can be done, and it can be successful. But it does require a
concentrated effort by a willing team.  If I could find a few people willing
to work on this I'd love to put my best effort into it, so, anyone
interested ?

If on the other hand people generally decide to go on working in a desktop
application, I'll just keep watching from the sidelines, but let me give you
my sincere best wishes for the future of the project.

João


On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Raphael Hertzog
<ra...@ge...>wrote:

> (Please keep me in CC on replies as I don't really read the list)
>
> Hello,
>
> Chia-liang Kao mailed me recently to be granted commit access to
> GeniusTrader. I'm glad that the project seems to take off after
> having languished so many years.
>
> However, even if I initiated the project, I'm not really leading it any
> more. Except me 4 persons have commit access nowadays:
> - joao: João Costa <joa...@zo...> (last seen in 2008)
> - olf: Oliver Bossert <ol...@ol...> (last seen in 2006)
> - ras: "Robert A. Schmied" <ra...@ac...> (active)
> - thomas: Thomas Weigert <we...@ms...> (active)
>
> I don't want to be a blocker for the project so I would suggest to move
> the project on a forge so that I'm no longer the sole project admin that
> can grant commit access.
>
> As part of my Debian work, I happen to be administrator of the
> http://alioth.debian.org forge so if that forge could suit you, I'd be
> glad to move the project there. It supports all modern VCS that could
> be of interest for the project (SVN, Git, bzr, hg, ...).
>
> What do you think ? (Input from the new contributors who have no commit
> access is welcome too)
>
> Thomas and Robert, if you think that I should immediately grant commit
> access to some new contributors, please tell me and I'll create them
> an SVN account.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com
>
> Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
> http://www.freexian.com
>

[GT] Project leader for GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ge...>]

(please keep me in cc)

Hello,

I would like to find an official project leader for GeniusTrader.

I have never organized the transition because we simply had no volunteers
at that time. It seems we have a few more contributors nowadays.

Do we have people volunteering to fill that role ?
If yes, please share your vision and your plans for Geniustrader and give
some words about your skills as well.

If we have (good) candidates, I'm willing to pick one official project
leader that shall take over the project lead and take decisions when
there's no consensus (and decide who gets commit rights and so on).

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ou...>]

Le jeudi 15 octobre 2009, Thomas Weigert a écrit :
> I think we should continue in above two pronged mode for the time being until a
> community process develops. As for that I propose that everybody who desires
> gets immediate access to the CPAN branch. Robert will continue to maintain the
> trunk.

I don't want to bother with partial commit access. Once commit access is
granted, the contributor can commit anywhere, of course we can have a
policy of requiring Robert's approval for trunk, but it would not be
enforced by technical means.

> I would prefer if you were to permit the quick access for developers to the
> CPAN branch, so that I can abandon the mirror.

So what account shall I create ?

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ou...>]

Le jeudi 15 octobre 2009, Bhaskar S. Manda a écrit :
> Would the mailing list and archives move too? To forums?

Yes, there are mailman mailing lists on lists.alioth.debian.org.
We can probably find a way to import old messages there.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] Re: Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Bhaskar S. M. <bha...@gm...>]

Would the mailing list and archives move too? To forums?


-- 
Bhaskar

[GT] Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Thomas W. <we...@ms...>]

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-15"
 http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Dear Raphael,<br>
<br>
we have, I believe, settled on a process where there is two GT
branches....<br>
<br>
<ul>
  <li>One bleeding edge branch where the community is developing and
has access (the CPAN branch)</li>
  <li>One branch that is considered stable and where everything is
carefully reviewed by Robert before checking in (the trunk)</li>
</ul>
As it appeared that it was not easy to get write access to the
repository, I have began mirroring the CPAN branch to be able to permit
access to developers but I need to painstakingly merge things back to
your machine until we have a better solution.<br>
<br>
I greatly welcome your offer to move GT on a more flexible config
system.<br>
<br>
I think we should continue in above two pronged mode for the time being
until a community process develops. As for that I propose that
everybody who desires gets immediate access to the CPAN branch. Robert
will continue to maintain the trunk. <br>
<br>
I would prefer if you were to permit the quick access for developers to
the CPAN branch, so that I can abandon the mirror.<br>
<br>
Best regards, Th.<br>
<br>
(duplicate including Raphael)<br>
<br>
<br>
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20091015133533.GA16570@rivendell" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">(Please keep me in CC on replies as I don't really read the list)

Hello,

Chia-liang Kao mailed me recently to be granted commit access to
GeniusTrader. I'm glad that the project seems to take off after
having languished so many years.

However, even if I initiated the project, I'm not really leading it any
more. Except me 4 persons have commit access nowadays:
- joao: João Costa <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
 href="mailto:joa...@zo...">&lt;joa...@zo...&gt;</a> (last seen in 2008)
- olf: Oliver Bossert <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
 href="mailto:ol...@ol...">&lt;ol...@ol...&gt;</a> (last seen in 2006)
- ras: "Robert A. Schmied" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
 href="mailto:ra...@ac...">&lt;ra...@ac...&gt;</a> (active)
- thomas: Thomas Weigert <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
 href="mailto:we...@ms...">&lt;we...@ms...&gt;</a> (active)

I don't want to be a blocker for the project so I would suggest to move
the project on a forge so that I'm no longer the sole project admin that
can grant commit access.

As part of my Debian work, I happen to be administrator of the
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://alioth.debian.org">http://alioth.debian.org</a> forge so if that forge could suit you, I'd be
glad to move the project there. It supports all modern VCS that could
be of interest for the project (SVN, Git, bzr, hg, ...).

What do you think ? (Input from the new contributors who have no commit
access is welcome too)

Thomas and Robert, if you think that I should immediately grant commit
access to some new contributors, please tell me and I'll create them
an SVN account.

Cheers,
  </pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

[GT] Re: Future of GeniusTrader

[Thomas W. <we...@ms...>]

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-15"
 http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Dear Raphael,<br>
<br>
we have, I believe, settled on a process where there is two GT
branches....<br>
<br>
<ul>
  <li>One bleeding edge branch where the community is developing and
has access (the CPAN branch)</li>
  <li>One branch that is considered stable and where everything is
carefully reviewed by Robert before checking in (the trunk)</li>
</ul>
As it appeared that it was not easy to get write access to the
repository, I have began mirroring the CPAN branch to be able to permit
access to developers but I need to painstakingly merge things back to
your machine until we have a better solution.<br>
<br>
I greatly welcome your offer to move GT on a more flexible config
system.<br>
<br>
I think we should continue in above two pronged mode for the time being
until a community process develops. As for that I propose that
everybody who desires gets immediate access to the CPAN branch. Robert
will continue to maintain the trunk. <br>
<br>
I would prefer if you were to permit the quick access for developers to
the CPAN branch, so that I can abandon the mirror.<br>
<br>
Best regards, Th.<br>
<br>
<br>
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:20091015133533.GA16570@rivendell" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">(Please keep me in CC on replies as I don't really read the list)

Hello,

Chia-liang Kao mailed me recently to be granted commit access to
GeniusTrader. I'm glad that the project seems to take off after
having languished so many years.

However, even if I initiated the project, I'm not really leading it any
more. Except me 4 persons have commit access nowadays:
- joao: João Costa <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:joa...@zo...">&lt;joa...@zo...&gt;</a> (last seen in 2008)
- olf: Oliver Bossert <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ol...@ol...">&lt;ol...@ol...&gt;</a> (last seen in 2006)
- ras: "Robert A. Schmied" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ra...@ac...">&lt;ra...@ac...&gt;</a> (active)
- thomas: Thomas Weigert <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:we...@ms...">&lt;we...@ms...&gt;</a> (active)

I don't want to be a blocker for the project so I would suggest to move
the project on a forge so that I'm no longer the sole project admin that
can grant commit access.

As part of my Debian work, I happen to be administrator of the
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://alioth.debian.org">http://alioth.debian.org</a> forge so if that forge could suit you, I'd be
glad to move the project there. It supports all modern VCS that could
be of interest for the project (SVN, Git, bzr, hg, ...).

What do you think ? (Input from the new contributors who have no commit
access is welcome too)

Thomas and Robert, if you think that I should immediately grant commit
access to some new contributors, please tell me and I'll create them
an SVN account.

Cheers,
  </pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

[GT] Future of GeniusTrader

[Raphael H. <ra...@ge...>]

(Please keep me in CC on replies as I don't really read the list)

Hello,

Chia-liang Kao mailed me recently to be granted commit access to
GeniusTrader. I'm glad that the project seems to take off after
having languished so many years.

However, even if I initiated the project, I'm not really leading it any
more. Except me 4 persons have commit access nowadays:
- joao: João Costa <joa...@zo...> (last seen in 2008)
- olf: Oliver Bossert <ol...@ol...> (last seen in 2006)
- ras: "Robert A. Schmied" <ra...@ac...> (active)
- thomas: Thomas Weigert <we...@ms...> (active)

I don't want to be a blocker for the project so I would suggest to move
the project on a forge so that I'm no longer the sole project admin that
can grant commit access.

As part of my Debian work, I happen to be administrator of the
http://alioth.debian.org forge so if that forge could suit you, I'd be
glad to move the project there. It supports all modern VCS that could
be of interest for the project (SVN, Git, bzr, hg, ...).

What do you think ? (Input from the new contributors who have no commit
access is welcome too)

Thomas and Robert, if you think that I should immediately grant commit
access to some new contributors, please tell me and I'll create them
an SVN account.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com

Freexian : des développeurs Debian au service des entreprises
http://www.freexian.com

[GT] RE: Newby Install Problem

[Jon E. <fo...@ho...>]

Thank you all and my apologies for failing to mention my OS.
That's what I get for posting after a long day of doing a bunch of system installs for various things.

My OS is SLES 10.2 to be specific.
And for reference I did need to install (from CD) various GD related libraries and development packages to get an install of GD from cpan to work. Now the example in graphic.pl worked to create an image that displays nicely in a browser.  Gotta start somewhere :)

The help is much appreciated.

Jon



> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:13:33 -0700
> From: gm...@pa...
> To: de...@ge...
> CC: fo...@ho...
> Subject: Re: [GT] Newby Install Problem
> 
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:12:46AM -0400, Jon Edwards wrote:
> > I unpacked the Perl modules and script (.tgz) from the site.
> > Trying to run an example in graphic.pl but get the Can't locate message
> > 
> > Can't locate GD.pm in @INC (@INC contains: .. [snip...]
> > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm line 9.
> > 
> > Yet GD.pm in a @INC path.
> > -rw-r--r--   1 root     root         6303 Apr 24  2005 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm
> > 
> > Something basic I've done incorrectly but what ??
> 
> You didn't mention what OS you're using, presumably a Linux
> distribution.  For Ubuntu or Debian, install the libgd-gd2-perl package.
> 
> -- 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Gregory H. Margo
> gmargo at yahoo/com, gmail/com, pacbell/net; greg at margofamily/org
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

[GT] Re: Newby Install Problem

[Gregory M. <gm...@pa...>]

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:12:46AM -0400, Jon Edwards wrote:
> I unpacked the Perl modules and script (.tgz) from the site.
> Trying to run an example in graphic.pl but get the Can't locate message
> 
> Can't locate GD.pm in @INC (@INC contains: .. [snip...]
> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm line 9.
> 
> Yet GD.pm in a @INC path.
> -rw-r--r--   1 root     root         6303 Apr 24  2005 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm
> 
> Something basic I've done incorrectly but what ??

You didn't mention what OS you're using, presumably a Linux
distribution.  For Ubuntu or Debian, install the libgd-gd2-perl package.

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gregory H. Margo
gmargo at yahoo/com, gmail/com, pacbell/net; greg at margofamily/org

[GT] Re: Newby Install Problem

[Chia-liang K. <cl...@cl...>]

install GD from CPAN. you were looking at GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm, not GD.pm

2009/10/12 Jon Edwards <fo...@ho...>:
>
> I unpacked the Perl modules and script (.tgz) from the site.
> Trying to run an example in graphic.pl but get the Can't locate message
>
>
> Can't locate GD.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ..
> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm line 9.
> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm line 9.
>
>
> Yet GD.pm in a @INC path.
> -rw-r--r--   1 root     root         6303 Apr 24  2005
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm
>
> Something basic I've done incorrectly but what ??
>
> Thank you,
> Jon
>
> ________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.

[GT] Newby Install Problem

[Jon E. <fo...@ho...>]

I unpacked the Perl modules and script (.tgz) from the site.
Trying to run an example in graphic.pl but get the Can't locate message


Can't locate GD.pm in @INC (@INC contains: .. /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/i586-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm line 9.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm line 9.


Yet GD.pm in a @INC path.
-rw-r--r--   1 root     root         6303 Apr 24  2005 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/GT/Graphics/Driver/GD.pm

Something basic I've done incorrectly but what ??

Thank you,
Jon
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/

[GT] Re: GT development

[Erik C. <ec...@ec...>]

On 10 Oct 2009, at 07:17, Chia-liang Kao wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> first of all, I found that Erik++ has registered #geniustrader channel
> on freenode irc, and a few of us are there now, so please join us
> there if you use and/or develop GT!

guess I should show up then ;)

>
> I spent some spare time in the past few weeks reorganizing the changes
> i made to GT into 10 topic branches that are published on
> http://github.com/clkao/finance-geniustrader, and they are all ported
> to and ready for the CPAN branches now (under CPAN/topic/*).

I did my CPAN dev on my github's repo GeniusTrader-CPAN.
My work has been focussed to making a GeniusTrader CPAN module and  
also setting up a basic test system.
The commits in my repo have been completely included by Thomas++ on  
the CPAN svn-branch. So my Github repo isn't of any use anymore.

> the github repository also has a mirror of svn tree: svn/trunk and  
> svn/CPAN.
>
> my next step is to port and release the GT changes i made for real
> time trading (basically a price listener script and strategy runner,
> as well as position/order handler that talks to the broker API. they
> have in production for 6 months now), which requires some of the
> above-mentioned patches.
>
> From the past discussion on the list, it seems we sort of have
> consensus for moving forward with the CPAN branch, and Erik has
> already made a development release to CPAN.  Now as there are more
> people playing and patching GT I think we need to agree on some kind
> of development model, and release management (I think GT was never
> released from the svn repository at all until the CPAN effort)

correct.

>
> Basically I think all patches and new development should be based on
> the CPAN branch, but those who need particular patches for the their
> trunk-based tree can of course back port the change.
>
> This leads to another question: which is the blessed tree for
> releasing?  Currently it's the CPAN branch on Subversion.  Personally
> I think git is easier for contributors to share patches (and those in
> progress).  We can use my github mirror of the CPAN branch for people
> to fork and submit pull request for us to merge to the CPAN branch in
> svn, or we can simply bless a git tree to be the one we release from.
> (in that case, i can create a master branch based on the current CPAN
> branch, and add people to help merging patches)

the svn trunk is the one considered as stable and doesn't include the  
CPAN branch. The authors of GeniusTrader consider it to be an ongoing  
effort and a geek app. Therefor they have no strategy nor intention of  
making releases. ( This is my interpretation, please correct me if I'm  
wrong)
Other branches are considered 'unstable'. this is the case for the  
cpan branch also.

>
> In any case, I would like to see GT development to be more agile and
> test-driven. What do people think?

Some time ago I devoted free time to GeniusTrader CPANisation. Setting  
all up (svn) made me loose far too much time (days! and probably more  
than a week) and I guess you're on your way going through this also.  
The RCS problem is big. I can tell you that the time I lost with it  
was enough to fail to release a stable Finance::GeniusTrader.

Due to this I considered forking the project.

Well, I didn't.

This is why:
The only reason (which certainly is a major one, and still does exist  
today) I have for forking is the (probably unintentionally)  
contribution barrier to the project. As of today Thomas has set up a  
mirror svn repo for the cpan branch, which commits to the main svn  
repo. For most open source projects, the intention is to collect  
contributors, making the project evolve. With GeniusTrader it isn't.

However, in my eyes, a project gets forked if developers don't agree  
on the way to go in the future. This isn't the case as developers of  
GeniusTrader all agree to make it a CPAN module, as this would make  
the GeniusTrader community grow.

GeniusTrader is a financial toolkit. It's main purpose is trading.  
CPANisation, GITisation and whatever other bells and whistles are nice  
features which certainly can take GeniusTrader to another level in the  
Community. But GeniusTrader needs financial experts as developers.  
Perl contributors like me (although I do have a economics background)  
also but not at the same critical level.

So, as long as those financial experts won't consider using Git, I  
won't use it anymore, and contribute to the CPAN repo that Thomas has  
set up.

It is however true that GIT's cheap branching would help a lot to the  
dev, especially if you (and others) are implementing new stuff which  
are based on the CPAN tree. I couldn't convince Thomas and others of  
this. As you certainly know svn better than anybody here, you can give  
it a try ;)

I'm the author of Finance::QuoteDB and the current maintainer of  
Finance::Quote and (as you know) Finance::GeniusTrader. I've put some  
time in making all these modules work together. Last weekend  
Finance::Quote 1.17 has been released. Until the 20th of this month I  
have another (unrelated) project to release after which I'm planning  
to work on Finance::GeniusTrader again.

Finance::Quote is on Github and I can tell you that developing with  
Git as RCS is far easier than svn. People contribute easily. But I  
guess you already knew this ;)

So maybe there's another way around this ? We might turn this problem  
upside-down: Use a Git repo as main repo and making the current svn  
branch 'copied' to a Git branch ?

The conclusion is that when I'll restart dev into the CPAN branch, I'd  
like not to loose time in RCS problems anymore. That would help me  
release a stable CPAN module by the end of the month. Cross my  
fingers, touch wood etc... ;)

regards
--
Erik Colson

[GT] GT development

[Chia-liang K. <cl...@cl...>]

Hi all,

first of all, I found that Erik++ has registered #geniustrader channel
on freenode irc, and a few of us are there now, so please join us
there if you use and/or develop GT!

I spent some spare time in the past few weeks reorganizing the changes
i made to GT into 10 topic branches that are published on
http://github.com/clkao/finance-geniustrader, and they are all ported
to and ready for the CPAN branches now (under CPAN/topic/*).

the github repository also has a mirror of svn tree: svn/trunk and svn/CPAN.

my next step is to port and release the GT changes i made for real
time trading (basically a price listener script and strategy runner,
as well as position/order handler that talks to the broker API. they
have in production for 6 months now), which requires some of the
above-mentioned patches.

>From the past discussion on the list, it seems we sort of have
consensus for moving forward with the CPAN branch, and Erik has
already made a development release to CPAN.  Now as there are more
people playing and patching GT I think we need to agree on some kind
of development model, and release management (I think GT was never
released from the svn repository at all until the CPAN effort)

Basically I think all patches and new development should be based on
the CPAN branch, but those who need particular patches for the their
trunk-based tree can of course back port the change.

This leads to another question: which is the blessed tree for
releasing?  Currently it's the CPAN branch on Subversion.  Personally
I think git is easier for contributors to share patches (and those in
progress).  We can use my github mirror of the CPAN branch for people
to fork and submit pull request for us to merge to the CPAN branch in
svn, or we can simply bless a git tree to be the one we release from.
(in that case, i can create a master branch based on the current CPAN
branch, and add people to help merging patches)

In any case, I would like to see GT development to be more agile and
test-driven. What do people think?

Happy trading!

Cheers,
CLK

[GT] Searching the archives

[Bhaskar S. M. <bha...@gm...>]

Having read the Wiki and other documents about using GeniusTrader, it looks
like the mail (archive) is the best source of information once you have the
stock GT installed. So is there a way to search the archives?

I remember seeing a mail at some point about moving to Yahoo Groups ( I
don't know if I'm confusing this with some other list). If there is interest
in doing so, I volunteer to move the list to Google Groups. Alternately,
there are some bolt-ons  to MHonArc for searching, if that sounds better.
Who, BTW, is the list maintainer?

Thanks.
-- 
Bhaskar