Thread: [Algorithms] What is next-gen
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From: Tibor K. <tib...@gm...> - 2005-12-26 00:02:10
|
Hi everyone, Long time lurker, fist time poster here. Since the next year is coming in the following days, I thought it would be a nice topic to start it out with. I hope this is the correct list for this kind of a thread! What are you expectations of next-gen (X360, PS3, PC in a year or so)? As far as I can tell there are 4 main opinions on this matter: 1) Nothing revolutionary, beefed up shaders, higher res textures, more polys, maybe more physics and that's it 2) 1, but with advancements in the gameplay area (saturated market, can't always sell same stuff worries etc.) 3) Gameplay-wise no revolution (no pun intended), but graphics, physics and special effects will make giant leaps ahead 4) 2 + 3 :) I am closest to #1 myself. I see games having: - more debris, vegetation, decals etc. - nicer shaders (more dynamic lighting etc.) - soft shadows as a standard - really nice particle effects (fillrate, oh please, give us fillrate) - environments destructible to a certain degree (shoot of window planks, maybe blow up a small house etc) - physics on as many "small things" as possible - etc. Basicly more everything, but nothing strikingly new. What do you think? - Tibor |
From: Jim O. <jof...@ni...> - 2005-12-26 01:08:52
|
I definitely don't see next-gen as being "more of everything, but nothing strikingly new". Heck, that's not even true for the current generation of games! We really need to stop perpetuating the myth that all major advances in games happen in the fields of graphics and physics. Some of the greatest innovations in the current generation had nothing to do with either field. Things like the (then novelty) gesture based commands in Black & White (and now a similar system is used with the slates in Myst V) or the health system in Halo (finally a game in which the worlds worst FPS-player - me - can make it through the entire campaign without dying!) Personally, I hope that with the next generation of games we'll finally see the last of those stupid artificial constraints on the player (i.e. you can't jump over crates until you have jump+2, when the player character is a mutated frog with massive hind legs clearly made for jumpin'...) and also, I would like to see more use color grading, etc, as in the movies so that not all games look either 'hyper real' or 'cartoony'. I'm still waiting for the Saving Private Ryan among war games! Jim Offerman Nixxes Software > Hi everyone, > > Long time lurker, fist time poster here. Since the next year is > coming in the following days, I thought it would be a nice topic to > start it out with. I hope this is the correct list for this kind of > a thread! > > What are you expectations of next-gen (X360, PS3, PC in a year or > so)? As far as I can tell there are 4 main opinions on this matter: > > 1) Nothing revolutionary, beefed up shaders, higher res textures, > more polys, maybe more physics and that's it > 2) 1, but with advancements in the gameplay area (saturated market, > can't always sell same stuff worries etc.) > 3) Gameplay-wise no revolution (no pun intended), but graphics, > physics and special effects will make giant leaps ahead > 4) 2 + 3 :) > > I am closest to #1 myself. I see games having: > - more debris, vegetation, decals etc. > - nicer shaders (more dynamic lighting etc.) > - soft shadows as a standard > - really nice particle effects (fillrate, oh please, give us fillrate) > - environments destructible to a certain degree (shoot of window > planks, maybe blow up a small house etc) > - physics on as many "small things" as possible > - etc. > > Basicly more everything, but nothing strikingly new. What do you > think? > > - Tibor > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through > log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD > SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 |
From: Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> - 2005-12-26 11:38:49
|
I really hope they give a higher priority for the AI on the next-gen games. That, and a higher playability value, and you have better games without spending all your development efforts and resources on new graphics' technologies. Graphics improvements are a matter of increasing the pipeline; AI and playability also require better processing times, but now there's plenty of it available on the next gen console, or at least enough to justify a higher priority on these fields. My humble two cents.. Rodrigo -----Mensagem original----- De: gda...@li... [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de Tibor Klajnscek Enviada em: domingo, 25 de dezembro de 2005 22:04 Para: gda...@li... Assunto: [Algorithms] What is next-gen Hi everyone, Long time lurker, fist time poster here. Since the next year is coming in the following days, I thought it would be a nice topic to start it out with. I hope this is the correct list for this kind of a thread! What are you expectations of next-gen (X360, PS3, PC in a year or so)? As far as I can tell there are 4 main opinions on this matter: 1) Nothing revolutionary, beefed up shaders, higher res textures, more polys, maybe more physics and that's it 2) 1, but with advancements in the gameplay area (saturated market, can't always sell same stuff worries etc.) 3) Gameplay-wise no revolution (no pun intended), but graphics, physics and special effects will make giant leaps ahead 4) 2 + 3 :) I am closest to #1 myself. I see games having: - more debris, vegetation, decals etc. - nicer shaders (more dynamic lighting etc.) - soft shadows as a standard - really nice particle effects (fillrate, oh please, give us fillrate) - environments destructible to a certain degree (shoot of window planks, maybe blow up a small house etc) - physics on as many "small things" as possible - etc. Basicly more everything, but nothing strikingly new. What do you think? - Tibor ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click _______________________________________________ GDAlgorithms-list mailing list GDA...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html |
From: Tibor K. <tib...@gm...> - 2005-12-26 14:05:42
|
I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going to go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your publisher is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere else and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary new in the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious time consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to games for the last few years. So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of what it SHOULD look like). - Tibor Rodrigo wrote: >I really hope they give a higher priority for the AI on the next-gen games. >That, and a higher playability value, and you have better games without >spending all your development efforts and resources on new graphics' >technologies. > >Graphics improvements are a matter of increasing the pipeline; AI and >playability also require better processing times, but now there's plenty of >it available on the next gen console, or at least enough to justify a higher >priority on these fields. > >My humble two cents.. > >Rodrigo > >-----Mensagem original----- >De: gda...@li... >[mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de Tibor >Klajnscek >Enviada em: domingo, 25 de dezembro de 2005 22:04 >Para: gda...@li... >Assunto: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > >Hi everyone, > >Long time lurker, fist time poster here. Since the next year is coming in >the following days, I thought it would be a nice topic to start it out with. >I hope this is the correct list for this kind of a thread! > >What are you expectations of next-gen (X360, PS3, PC in a year or so)? >As far as I can tell there are 4 main opinions on this matter: > >1) Nothing revolutionary, beefed up shaders, higher res textures, more >polys, maybe more physics and that's it >2) 1, but with advancements in the gameplay area (saturated market, can't >always sell same stuff worries etc.) >3) Gameplay-wise no revolution (no pun intended), but graphics, physics and >special effects will make giant leaps ahead >4) 2 + 3 :) > >I am closest to #1 myself. I see games having: >- more debris, vegetation, decals etc. >- nicer shaders (more dynamic lighting etc.) >- soft shadows as a standard >- really nice particle effects (fillrate, oh please, give us fillrate) >- environments destructible to a certain degree (shoot of window planks, >maybe blow up a small house etc) >- physics on as many "small things" as possible >- etc. > >Basicly more everything, but nothing strikingly new. What do you think? > >- Tibor > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files >for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! >http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click >_______________________________________________ >GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >GDA...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >Archives: >http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. >http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files >for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! >http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click >_______________________________________________ >GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >GDA...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >Archives: >http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 > > > |
From: Jim O. <jof...@ni...> - 2005-12-26 15:34:43
|
The picture you are painting here is just not true. Publishers care =20 for a lot more than quick marketing materials and pretty graphics. =20 Perhaps not all of them, but the ones that are planning to stay in =20 business certainly do... Jim. > I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going =20 > to go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and =20 > pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from =20 > screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your publisher =20= > is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... > > And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game =20 > and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know =20 > that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere =20 > else and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary =20 > new in the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious time =20= > consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to =20 > games for the last few years. > > So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what =20 > next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of what =20= > it SHOULD look like). > > - Tibor > > Rodrigo wrote: > >> I really hope they give a higher priority for the AI on the next-=20 >> gen games. >> That, and a higher playability value, and you have better games =20 >> without >> spending all your development efforts and resources on new graphics' >> technologies. >> >> Graphics improvements are a matter of increasing the pipeline; AI and >> playability also require better processing times, but now there's =20 >> plenty of >> it available on the next gen console, or at least enough to =20 >> justify a higher >> priority on these fields. >> >> My humble two cents.. >> >> Rodrigo >> >> -----Mensagem original----- >> De: gda...@li... >> [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de =20 >> Tibor >> Klajnscek >> Enviada em: domingo, 25 de dezembro de 2005 22:04 >> Para: gda...@li... >> Assunto: [Algorithms] What is next-gen >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Long time lurker, fist time poster here. Since the next year is =20 >> coming in >> the following days, I thought it would be a nice topic to start it =20= >> out with. >> I hope this is the correct list for this kind of a thread! >> >> What are you expectations of next-gen (X360, PS3, PC in a year or =20 >> so)? As far as I can tell there are 4 main opinions on this matter: >> >> 1) Nothing revolutionary, beefed up shaders, higher res textures, =20 >> more >> polys, maybe more physics and that's it >> 2) 1, but with advancements in the gameplay area (saturated =20 >> market, can't >> always sell same stuff worries etc.) >> 3) Gameplay-wise no revolution (no pun intended), but graphics, =20 >> physics and >> special effects will make giant leaps ahead >> 4) 2 + 3 :) >> >> I am closest to #1 myself. I see games having: >> - more debris, vegetation, decals etc. >> - nicer shaders (more dynamic lighting etc.) >> - soft shadows as a standard >> - really nice particle effects (fillrate, oh please, give us =20 >> fillrate) >> - environments destructible to a certain degree (shoot of window =20 >> planks, >> maybe blow up a small house etc) >> - physics on as many "small things" as possible >> - etc. >> >> Basicly more everything, but nothing strikingly new. What do you =20 >> think? >> >> - Tibor >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through =20= >> log files >> for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >> searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD =20 >> SPLUNK! >> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7637&alloc_id=3D16865&op=3Dclick >> _______________________________________________ >> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >> GDA...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >> Archives: >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D6188 >> >> >> =09 >> >> =09 >> =09 >> _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! =20 >> doce lar. Fa=E7a do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/=20 >> homepageset.html >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through =20= >> log files >> for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >> searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD =20 >> SPLUNK! >> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7637&alloc_id=3D16865&op=3Dclick >> _______________________________________________ >> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >> GDA...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >> Archives: >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D6188 >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through =20 > log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD =20 > SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7637&alloc_id=3D16865&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D6188 |
From: Tibor K. <tib...@gm...> - 2005-12-26 17:03:06
|
If that's true, than I welcome the good times that lay ahead! I'd still like to hear other people's thoughts - I guess we'll have to wait for the new year season to pass for that :) Jim Offerman wrote: > The picture you are painting here is just not true. Publishers care > for a lot more than quick marketing materials and pretty graphics. > Perhaps not all of them, but the ones that are planning to stay in > business certainly do... > > Jim. > >> I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going to >> go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and >> pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from >> screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your publisher >> is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... >> >> And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game >> and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know >> that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere else >> and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary new in >> the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious time >> consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to >> games for the last few years. >> >> So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what >> next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of what >> it SHOULD look like). >> >> - Tibor >> >> Rodrigo wrote: >> >>> I really hope they give a higher priority for the AI on the next- >>> gen games. >>> That, and a higher playability value, and you have better games >>> without >>> spending all your development efforts and resources on new graphics' >>> technologies. >>> >>> Graphics improvements are a matter of increasing the pipeline; AI and >>> playability also require better processing times, but now there's >>> plenty of >>> it available on the next gen console, or at least enough to justify >>> a higher >>> priority on these fields. >>> >>> My humble two cents.. >>> >>> Rodrigo >>> >>> -----Mensagem original----- >>> De: gda...@li... >>> [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de >>> Tibor >>> Klajnscek >>> Enviada em: domingo, 25 de dezembro de 2005 22:04 >>> Para: gda...@li... >>> Assunto: [Algorithms] What is next-gen >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Long time lurker, fist time poster here. Since the next year is >>> coming in >>> the following days, I thought it would be a nice topic to start it >>> out with. >>> I hope this is the correct list for this kind of a thread! >>> >>> What are you expectations of next-gen (X360, PS3, PC in a year or >>> so)? As far as I can tell there are 4 main opinions on this matter: >>> >>> 1) Nothing revolutionary, beefed up shaders, higher res textures, more >>> polys, maybe more physics and that's it >>> 2) 1, but with advancements in the gameplay area (saturated market, >>> can't >>> always sell same stuff worries etc.) >>> 3) Gameplay-wise no revolution (no pun intended), but graphics, >>> physics and >>> special effects will make giant leaps ahead >>> 4) 2 + 3 :) >>> >>> I am closest to #1 myself. I see games having: >>> - more debris, vegetation, decals etc. >>> - nicer shaders (more dynamic lighting etc.) >>> - soft shadows as a standard >>> - really nice particle effects (fillrate, oh please, give us fillrate) >>> - environments destructible to a certain degree (shoot of window >>> planks, >>> maybe blow up a small house etc) >>> - physics on as many "small things" as possible >>> - etc. >>> >>> Basicly more everything, but nothing strikingly new. What do you >>> think? >>> >>> - Tibor >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through >>> log files >>> for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >>> searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD >>> SPLUNK! >>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click >>> _______________________________________________ >>> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >>> GDA...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >>> Archives: >>> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! doce >>> lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/ homepageset.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through >>> log files >>> for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >>> searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD >>> SPLUNK! >>> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click >>> _______________________________________________ >>> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >>> GDA...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >>> Archives: >>> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through >> log files >> for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes >> searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! >> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click >> _______________________________________________ >> GDAlgorithms-list mailing list >> GDA...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list >> Archives: >> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id865&op=click > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > |
From: Emanuele S. <in...@fo...> - 2005-12-26 18:43:34
|
...you mean, the others who care about graphics and "easy marketing" are = bound to go out of business? Have a chat with Microsoft and Epic...just to mention a couple ...if = they feel like they'll be out of business any soon. ^_^ Best, Emanuele Salvucci Maya|Lightwave Game Technical Artist Lscript developer www.forwardgames.com ema...@fo... "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has = passed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Jim Offerman" <jof...@ni...> To: <gda...@li...> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen The picture you are painting here is just not true. Publishers care =20 for a lot more than quick marketing materials and pretty graphics. =20 Perhaps not all of them, but the ones that are planning to stay in =20 business certainly do... Jim. > I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going =20 > to go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and =20 > pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from =20 > screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your publisher =20 > is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... > > And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game =20 > and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know =20 > that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere =20 > else and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary =20 > new in the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious time =20 > consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to =20 > games for the last few years. > > So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what =20 > next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of what =20 > it SHOULD look like). > > - Tibor > |
From: Jim O. <jof...@ni...> - 2005-12-26 18:53:05
|
You've misread my comment... sure, publishers care about graphics and easy marketing, but the good ones (Microsoft and Epic included) care about more than just pretty pictures. Jim. > > ...you mean, the others who care about graphics and "easy > marketing" are bound to go out of business? > > Have a chat with Microsoft and Epic...just to mention a > couple ...if they feel like they'll be out of business any soon. ^_^ > > > > Best, > > Emanuele Salvucci > Maya|Lightwave > Game Technical Artist > Lscript developer > > www.forwardgames.com > ema...@fo... > > "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has > passed." > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Offerman" <jof...@ni...> > To: <gda...@li...> > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 4:37 PM > Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > The picture you are painting here is just not true. Publishers care > for a lot more than quick marketing materials and pretty graphics. > Perhaps not all of them, but the ones that are planning to stay in > business certainly do... > > Jim. > > > I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going > > to go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and > > pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from > > screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your publisher > > is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... > > > > And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game > > and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know > > that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere > > else and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary > > new in the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious time > > consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to > > games for the last few years. > > > > So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what > > next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of what > > it SHOULD look like). > > > > - Tibor > > |
From: Emanuele S. <in...@fo...> - 2005-12-26 19:27:28
|
Sorry but I have to disagree...slightly at least. Unreal *WAS* an original IP...now it's a license. Microsoft does some = original IP...but not to tear you apart, IMHO. Ubisoft produces far more original titles, as far as I can see. I agree that people like Microsoft and EA should look more into = something slightly new to publish. PGR2 does look good indeed...but... = hey, it's a racing game! ^_^ Dark zero misses that "next-gen" visuals...which Gears of War = promises...but that could be simple strategy for Msoft to launch X360 = with PDZero. (imagine "Gears of War" launch on Xbox 360, *exactly* when = PS3 comes out...it would generate lots of attention. ^_^ ) For me, Msoft just launched "softly" with titles both because they had = to launch the console way ahead, and because they have to make noise = with great titles when PS3 comes out...later on. Next-gen visuals are yet to come on Xbox360 as well, IMHO. Best, Emanuele Salvucci Maya|Lightwave Game Technical Artist Lscript developer www.forwardgames.com ema...@fo... "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has = passed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Jim Offerman" <jof...@ni...> To: <gda...@li...> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > You've misread my comment... sure, publishers care about graphics and = > easy marketing, but the good ones (Microsoft and Epic included) care =20 > about more than just pretty pictures. >=20 > Jim. >=20 > > > > ...you mean, the others who care about graphics and "easy =20 > > marketing" are bound to go out of business? > > > > Have a chat with Microsoft and Epic...just to mention a =20 > > couple ...if they feel like they'll be out of business any soon. ^_^ > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Emanuele Salvucci > > Maya|Lightwave > > Game Technical Artist > > Lscript developer > > > > www.forwardgames.com > > ema...@fo... > > > > "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has = > > passed." > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Offerman" <jof...@ni...> > > To: <gda...@li...> > > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 4:37 PM > > Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > > > The picture you are painting here is just not true. Publishers care > > for a lot more than quick marketing materials and pretty graphics. > > Perhaps not all of them, but the ones that are planning to stay in > > business certainly do... > > > > Jim. > > > > > I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going > > > to go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and > > > pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from > > > screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your = publisher > > > is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... > > > > > > And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game > > > and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know > > > that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere > > > else and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary > > > new in the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious = time > > > consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to > > > games for the last few years. > > > > > > So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what > > > next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of = what > > > it SHOULD look like). > > > > > > - Tibor > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log = files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD = SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7637&alloc_id=3D16865&op=3Dclick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D6188 >=20 > |
From: Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> - 2005-12-26 22:11:18
|
Visuals in the next gen consoles'games *must* be better because consumers know that their hardware is better, and they seek for improvements on the graphics when they buy a new gear, or at least that's the first thing they notice/care for in a next-gen game; But this level of graphical detail will be achieved with new approaches - I believe that procedurally generated content will have much more room now than previously, because it will be overkill to produce art for the level of realism required by next-gen players. Just to mention one solution; companies are already flooded with artist, and their tools are a larger share of a company's investment in technology when improving development quality. But I always take the examples of RPGs for this; do you remember the old-school RPG games? Do you remember how addictive they were? I mean the SNES ones, and probably some Psx ones. Those games did not have a fair graphics pipeline to base their sells in the graphics, alone. Sure, most of them had considerable improvements for the time they were released, but they also introduced many new concepts for the industry. That's what I'm looking forward to see in the next-gen consoles: better graphics, indeed, but that is only natural. A real improvement would be to make use of the gained processing power to take the playing experience to a new level. BTW, I'm no game developer, and the few games I try out to develop are for fun. These lines were written by the player part of me, who is bored with the current gen games lacking content and real playability value in exchange for astonishing looks. And I believe there's a considerable share of players out there that agree with me. Rodrigo _____ De: gda...@li... [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de Emanuele Salvucci Enviada em: segunda-feira, 26 de dezembro de 2005 17:27 Para: gda...@li... Assunto: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen Sorry but I have to disagree...slightly at least. Unreal *WAS* an original IP...now it's a license. Microsoft does some original IP...but not to tear you apart, IMHO. Ubisoft produces far more original titles, as far as I can see. I agree that people like Microsoft and EA should look more into something slightly new to publish. PGR2 does look good indeed...but... hey, it's a racing game! ^_^ Dark zero misses that "next-gen" visuals...which Gears of War promises...but that could be simple strategy for Msoft to launch X360 with PDZero. (imagine "Gears of War" launch on Xbox 360, *exactly* when PS3 comes out...it would generate lots of attention. ^_^ ) For me, Msoft just launched "softly" with titles both because they had to launch the console way ahead, and because they have to make noise with great titles when PS3 comes out...later on. Next-gen visuals are yet to come on Xbox360 as well, IMHO. Best, Emanuele Salvucci Maya|Lightwave Game Technical Artist Lscript developer <http://www.forwardgames.com/> www.forwardgames.com ema...@fo... "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has passed." _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Offerman" < <mailto:jof...@ni...> jof...@ni...> To: < <mailto:gda...@li...> gda...@li...> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 7:55 PM Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > You've misread my comment... sure, publishers care about graphics and > easy marketing, but the good ones (Microsoft and Epic included) care > about more than just pretty pictures. > > Jim. > > > > > ...you mean, the others who care about graphics and "easy > > marketing" are bound to go out of business? > > > > Have a chat with Microsoft and Epic...just to mention a > > couple ...if they feel like they'll be out of business any soon. ^_^ > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Emanuele Salvucci > > Maya|Lightwave > > Game Technical Artist > > Lscript developer > > > > <http://www.forwardgames.com> www.forwardgames.com > > <mailto:ema...@fo...> ema...@fo... > > > > "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has > > passed." > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Offerman" < <mailto:jof...@ni...> jof...@ni...> > > To: < <mailto:gda...@li...> gda...@li...> > > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 4:37 PM > > Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > > > The picture you are painting here is just not true. Publishers care > > for a lot more than quick marketing materials and pretty graphics. > > Perhaps not all of them, but the ones that are planning to stay in > > business certainly do... > > > > Jim. > > > > > I agree with both of you, but I fear that publisher are not going > > > to go all out for it. They want immediate marketing material - and > > > pretty graphics are the thing that people can actually see from > > > screenshots and go "wow, i gotta get this game!" and your publisher > > > is happy, marketing is happy and the review usually don't suck... > > > > > > And when you've got 2 years and a limited budget to create a game > > > and you number one priority is to make it look good (we all know > > > that it is with 99% of projects) you have to cut away somewhere > > > else and people usually decide not to make something revolutionary > > > new in the gameplay area because that's the other most obvious time > > > consuming task. At least that's what I think has been happening to > > > games for the last few years. > > > > > > So basicly I'm also asking for you to post your opinions on what > > > next-gen is ACTUALLY going to look like (beside your vision of what > > > it SHOULD look like). > > > > > > - Tibor > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > <http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > <mailto:GDA...@li...> GDA...@li... > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=6188 > > |
From: Guido H. <gh...@g3...> - 2005-12-26 22:51:24
|
>> And I believe there's a considerable share of players out there that = agree with me. Absolutely, but players don't make games. Publishers are and they are = sadly completely clueless in this day and age. Guido Henkel |
From: Mat N. \(BUNGIE\) <Mat...@mi...> - 2005-12-27 00:13:25
|
> And I believe there's a considerable share of players out there that = agree with me. =20 Please define considerable. =20 MSN =20 |
From: Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> - 2005-12-27 02:47:46
|
> Please define considerable. I have no data on that, of course; All I said is based on what I read, people I talk to, etc.. If you want to know what type of player I am, I'm 21 year old, my goals in life differ a lot from those of a kid, I have money and I buy about 1 or 2 games each month - like many people of my age do. I believe I am not alone, given the people I talk to who share the same opinion. Don't tell me publishers shouldn't care for what we want, because certainly we are a considerable share of the people who buy games: because we don't ask our parents for money ;) Rodrigo _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html |
From: Guido H. <gh...@g3...> - 2005-12-27 03:41:56
|
> Don't tell me publishers shouldn't care for what we want, because > certainly we are a considerable share of the people who buy games: because > we don't ask our parents for money ;) Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, publishers do not care what people want. They care what people bought during the past few months and take that as a guideline for their own future product line-up. As long as people buy these moronic games that are out there, publishers will keep producing them and flooding us with games the world doesn't need. Guido Henkel |
From: Ben G. <be...@ga...> - 2005-12-27 05:02:11
|
Guido Henkel wrote: >> Don't tell me publishers shouldn't care for what we want, because >> certainly we are a considerable share of the people who buy games: >> because >> we don't ask our parents for money ;) > > > Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, publishers do not care what people > want. They care what people bought during the past few months and take > that as a guideline for their own future product line-up. As long as > people buy these moronic games that are out there, publishers will > keep producing them and flooding us with games the world doesn't need. > So in conclusion, I say to you as a representative of the consumer - buy more non-shovelware and support game makers when we do experiments so that we can justify it financially. Thanks, Ben |
From: Emanuele S. <in...@fo...> - 2005-12-27 08:08:28
|
----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Ben Garney" <be...@ga...> To: <gda...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:02 AM Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > Guido Henkel wrote: >=20 > >> Don't tell me publishers shouldn't care for what we want, because > >> certainly we are a considerable share of the people who buy games:=20 > >> because > >> we don't ask our parents for money ;) > > > > > > Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, publishers do not care what = people=20 > > want. They care what people bought during the past few months and = take=20 > > that as a guideline for their own future product line-up. As long as = > > people buy these moronic games that are out there, publishers will=20 > > keep producing them and flooding us with games the world doesn't = need. > > > So in conclusion, I say to you as a representative of the consumer - = buy=20 > more non-shovelware and support game makers when we do experiments so=20 > that we can justify it financially. That would be great. But consumers expect value for their money I = suppose. There are some great indipendent productions around...but they do focus = on gameplay. Which is good, but my opinion is that, if they'd spend some more quality = time to make their games pretty as well...it won't do any harm to = themselves and to consumers. Consumers always look at a pretty game, IMHO...even though it's not = their genre. Maybe they'll tell a friend who's interested. Take Alien Hominid. It began as a flash game, but it had the "right = visual style"...such graphics that let consumers distinguish a "quality = game".You can probably see "talent" that way...and you trust the whole = game...and you read the synopsis on the back and you buy it. When the "you buy it" doesn't happen, you should go back and trace the = chain of events for a "bug". :) I don't know if people is willing to "pay for experiments". True, they've paid for animal experiments when they buy a body = lotion...but they don't *really* know it, in the end. :)))) Best, Emanuele Salvucci Maya|Lightwave Game Technical Artist Lscript developer www.forwardgames.com ema...@fo... "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has = passed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- |
From: Emanuele S. <in...@fo...> - 2005-12-27 07:44:14
|
----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Guido Henkel" <gh...@g3...> To: <gda...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:41 AM Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > Don't tell me publishers shouldn't care for what we want, because > > certainly we are a considerable share of the people who buy games: = because > > we don't ask our parents for money ;) >=20 > Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, publishers do not care what people = want.=20 > They care what people bought during the past few months and take that = as a=20 > guideline for their own future product line-up. As long as people buy = these=20 > moronic games that are out there, publishers will keep producing them = and=20 > flooding us with games the world doesn't need. True, but probably people will buy games that are on shelves rather than = not buying games at all - because "they protest". Makes no sense to me. It's also publishers' responsibility to drive content...somehow. It is also very difficult for publishers to decide which project will be = a hit or rather a line-up filler. Our market, the shelves market, is "hit-driven"...meaning roughly 3 or 4 = games/year make 40% profit while remaining 60% profit is given by 20 or = 30 titles in a line-up. You can see value proportions are completely unbalanced...so publishers = must choose carefully: not waste too much money on a project which is = bound to be a "filler" nor abandon a game that is a potential hit. Best, Emanuele Salvucci Maya|Lightwave Game Technical Artist Lscript developer www.forwardgames.com ema...@fo... "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has = passed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- |
From: Aras P. <ne...@gm...> - 2005-12-27 09:46:04
|
Mat: > Please define considerable. #define considerable :) Guido: > As long as people buy these moronic games that are > out there, publishers will keep producing them and > flooding us with games the world doesn't need. The public gets what the public wants. I guess we should stop whining about how poor the situation is and make something for a change. Sure, the industry has lots (LOTS) of problems, but then - every industry has them. -- Aras 'NeARAZ' Pranckevicius http://nesnausk.org/nearaz | http://nearaz.blogspot.com |
From: James D. <jd...@gm...> - 2005-12-27 11:35:45
|
high definition katamari damacy. thats all im saying. -james On 12/27/05, Aras Pranckevicius <ne...@gm...> wrote: > Mat: > > Please define considerable. > > #define considerable > :) > > Guido: > > As long as people buy these moronic games that are > > out there, publishers will keep producing them and > > flooding us with games the world doesn't need. > > The public gets what the public wants. I guess we should stop whining > about how poor the situation is and make something for a change. Sure, > the industry has lots (LOTS) of problems, but then - every industry > has them. > > -- > Aras 'NeARAZ' Pranckevicius > http://nesnausk.org/nearaz | http://nearaz.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log fi= les > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&opclick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > -- PGP Public Key: http://www.jamesdolan.com/jdolan_pgp.txt Key fingerprint =3D CFC1 47FA 17B4 DE8F ED0F 4034 AA1B FCB8 D653 742B James Dolan <jd...@gm...> |
From: Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> - 2005-12-27 11:46:04
|
Just to clarify: I DO believe graphics are very important for games, and = I also look for good graphics when buying games - and you bet, it's one of = the first things I look into - it's just not the only one, nor the one who decides which game to buy ;) HOWEVER, since I don't have the time to play games as I used to have = when I was a kid, I sincerely search for my games that are "worth of my time" - that means I won't spend some bucks on a game that looks good but in the = end proves itself boring by a bad storyline and poor gameplay. Got my point? So I would *really* love to see other priorities - like AI, physics and sound - go up on the developers' lists. I know the publishers drive the market, and that's why I wrote all that: I'm sure there are more people = like me, who does not have much time to play or whatever, which focus on = other content instead of graphics when deciding which game to buy. Rodrigo -----Mensagem original----- De: gda...@li... [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de Aras Pranckevicius Enviada em: ter=E7a-feira, 27 de dezembro de 2005 07:46 Para: gda...@li... Assunto: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen Mat: > Please define considerable. #define considerable :) Guido: > As long as people buy these moronic games that are out there,=20 > publishers will keep producing them and flooding us with games the=20 > world doesn't need. The public gets what the public wants. I guess we should stop whining = about how poor the situation is and make something for a change. Sure, the industry has lots (LOTS) of problems, but then - every industry has = them. -- Aras 'NeARAZ' Pranckevicius http://nesnausk.org/nearaz | http://nearaz.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log = files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ GDAlgorithms-list mailing list GDA...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 _______________________________________________________ Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html |
From: Zulfiqar M. <zul...@gm...> - 2005-12-27 12:42:55
|
I think that graphics have become more important recently to the general public for many reasons: 1. Review sites are not good/impartial. Graphics play a very important part in the game getting a good review. 2. Good game play has different meaning to different people whereas aesthetics generally apply the same to most (if not all). 3. Good graphics generally mean that the developer has put great effort into development, thus giving the impression that a good enough effort would have been put in other parts of the game as well. However, I think that it will change in the coming year, thanks to the plethora of crappy games with good graphics throughout the current year and the year before. Since most games come out with decent enough graphics these days (and well taken screen-shots) therefore i see people taking more notice of gameplay and features other than graphics. Recent examples of this include, Doom3, FEAR, Quake4 etc. I think review sites have a role to play over here as well. They can start off by being more impartial. I won't mention any names here, but a lot of popular review sites have given ridiculously good reviews to very crappy/average games from big publishers. On the developer side, i think tight deadlines play a major role in them focusing their attention on the graphics side alone i.e. taking the easy way out. I don't blame them for that, because they are following a schedule given to them by the publisher and they have to follow it for their survival. On a lighter note, delays are getting very common these days, even the new year is getting delayed (if God is lagging behind, we can't blame game developers) :). On 12/27/05, Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> wrote: > > Just to clarify: I DO believe graphics are very important for games, and = I > also look for good graphics when buying games - and you bet, it's one of = the > first things I look into - it's just not the only one, nor the one who > decides which game to buy ;) > > HOWEVER, since I don't have the time to play games as I used to have when= I > was a kid, I sincerely search for my games that are "worth of my time" - > that means I won't spend some bucks on a game that looks good but in the = end > proves itself boring by a bad storyline and poor gameplay. Got my point? > > So I would *really* love to see other priorities - like AI, physics and > sound - go up on the developers' lists. I know the publishers drive the > market, and that's why I wrote all that: I'm sure there are more people l= ike > me, who does not have much time to play or whatever, which focus on other > content instead of graphics when deciding which game to buy. > > Rodrigo > > -----Mensagem original----- > De: gda...@li... > [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de Aras > Pranckevicius > Enviada em: ter=E7a-feira, 27 de dezembro de 2005 07:46 > Para: gda...@li... > Assunto: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > Mat: > > Please define considerable. > > #define considerable > :) > > Guido: > > As long as people buy these moronic games that are out there, > > publishers will keep producing them and flooding us with games the > > world doesn't need. > > The public gets what the public wants. I guess we should stop whining abo= ut > how poor the situation is and make something for a change. Sure, the > industry has lots (LOTS) of problems, but then - every industry has them. > > -- > Aras 'NeARAZ' Pranckevicius > http://nesnausk.org/nearaz | http://nearaz.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log fi= les > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&op=3Dick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Yahoo! doce lar. Fa=E7a do Yahoo! sua homepage. > http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log fi= les > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&opclick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > -- Regards, Zulfiqar Inayat Malik. |
From: Mohsin H. <moh...@tr...> - 2005-12-27 13:20:45
|
I think one of the biggest reasons for good graphics is the next gen consoles. People spent quite a lot of money to get them just to look at prettier pictures as hyped by console manufacturers. Imagine how they = would react if they don't get that. It's like not getting your drink when you = paid for it.=20 Console makers don't want that. They are forcing publishers/developers = to release pretty looking launch titles even if game play still needs work. It's like a vicious circle.=20 I like Nintendo's firm stand on Revolution though. It's more about game = play than graphics/power. I hope it succeeds. That should open a new chapter = in game development (optimistic approach :) As for reviewers, unfortunately most of their money comes from these publishers/hardware manufacturers.... we are just a bunch of audience waiting to be moved in a direction by these sites... thus by their = sponsors :) Mohsin -----Original Message----- From: gda...@li... [mailto:gda...@li...] On Behalf Of = Zulfiqar Malik Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:43 PM To: gda...@li... Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen I think that graphics have become more important recently to the general public for many reasons: 1. Review sites are not good/impartial. Graphics play a very important part in the game getting a good review. 2. Good game play has different meaning to different people whereas aesthetics generally apply the same to most (if not all). 3. Good graphics generally mean that the developer has put great effort into development, thus giving the impression that a good enough effort would have been put in other parts of the game as well. However, I think that it will change in the coming year, thanks to the plethora of crappy games with good graphics throughout the current year and the year before. Since most games come out with decent enough graphics these days (and well taken screen-shots) therefore i see people taking more notice of gameplay and features other than graphics. Recent examples of this include, Doom3, FEAR, Quake4 etc. I think review sites have a role to play over here as well. They can start off by being more impartial. I won't mention any names here, but a lot of popular review sites have given ridiculously good reviews to very crappy/average games from big publishers. On the developer side, i think tight deadlines play a major role in them focusing their attention on the graphics side alone i.e. taking the easy way out. I don't blame them for that, because they are following a schedule given to them by the publisher and they have to follow it for their survival. On a lighter note, delays are getting very common these days, even the new year is getting delayed (if God is lagging behind, we can't blame game developers) :). On 12/27/05, Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> wrote: > > Just to clarify: I DO believe graphics are very important for games, = and I > also look for good graphics when buying games - and you bet, it's one = of the > first things I look into - it's just not the only one, nor the one who > decides which game to buy ;) > > HOWEVER, since I don't have the time to play games as I used to have = when I > was a kid, I sincerely search for my games that are "worth of my time" = - > that means I won't spend some bucks on a game that looks good but in = the end > proves itself boring by a bad storyline and poor gameplay. Got my = point? > > So I would *really* love to see other priorities - like AI, physics = and > sound - go up on the developers' lists. I know the publishers drive = the > market, and that's why I wrote all that: I'm sure there are more = people like > me, who does not have much time to play or whatever, which focus on = other > content instead of graphics when deciding which game to buy. > > Rodrigo > > -----Mensagem original----- > De: gda...@li... > [mailto:gda...@li...] Em nome de Aras > Pranckevicius > Enviada em: ter=E7a-feira, 27 de dezembro de 2005 07:46 > Para: gda...@li... > Assunto: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > Mat: > > Please define considerable. > > #define considerable > :) > > Guido: > > As long as people buy these moronic games that are out there, > > publishers will keep producing them and flooding us with games the > > world doesn't need. > > The public gets what the public wants. I guess we should stop whining about > how poor the situation is and make something for a change. Sure, the > industry has lots (LOTS) of problems, but then - every industry has = them. > > -- > Aras 'NeARAZ' Pranckevicius > http://nesnausk.org/nearaz | http://nearaz.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD = SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&op=3Dick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Yahoo! doce lar. Fa=E7a do Yahoo! sua homepage. > http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD = SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&opclick > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > -- Regards, Zulfiqar Inayat Malik. ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log = files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id=16865&op=3Dick _______________________________________________ GDAlgorithms-list mailing list GDA...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list Archives: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 |
From: Emanuele S. <in...@fo...> - 2005-12-27 13:52:59
|
----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Zulfiqar Malik" <zul...@gm...> To: <gda...@li...> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:42 PM Subject: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen snip... >Since most games come out with decent enough >graphics these days (and well taken screen-shots) therefore i see >people taking more notice of gameplay and features other than >graphics.=20 ...oh, yeah...the graphics in most games' shots usually won't fit on a = 512Mb graphic card. ^_^ Best, Emanuele Salvucci Maya|Lightwave Game Technical Artist Lscript developer www.forwardgames.com ema...@fo... "#3. He causes things to look different so it would appear time has = passed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- |
From: Conor S. <bor...@ya...> - 2005-12-27 15:23:03
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Actually, I think Quake 4 and FEAR are probably good examples of what the next gen is moving towards. Mainly the single player aspects. Quake 4 single player was immersive, had a well driven story (for a Quake series game) and very good scripted sequences. If you didn't play through the single player Quake 4 you will have missed the very well orchestrated side of it. Although, there were a few bugs here and there :-). F.E.A.R again, play through the single player. The story is well integrated and thought out and the graphical effects used aren't just eye candy, they really add a whole horror movie cinematic effect. The AI is superb (it flanks, it covers, it flushes you out, it calls for back-up) as is the audio (note the mood setting music and the fairly seamless changes). Whether you liked these games or not, the single player games ARE where the next gen is heading. Especially F.E.A.R. - and the effects they use will be likely a lot of the ones asked for on this list :-) But anyway, enough of this jibba-jabba. --- Zulfiqar Malik <zul...@gm...> wrote: > I think that graphics have become more important > recently to the > general public for many reasons: > > 1. Review sites are not good/impartial. Graphics > play a very important > part in the game getting a good review. > 2. Good game play has different meaning to different > people whereas > aesthetics generally apply the same to most (if not > all). > 3. Good graphics generally mean that the developer > has put great > effort into development, thus giving the impression > that a good enough > effort would have been put in other parts of the > game as well. > > However, I think that it will change in the coming > year, thanks to the > plethora of crappy games with good graphics > throughout the current > year and the year before. Since most games come out > with decent enough > graphics these days (and well taken screen-shots) > therefore i see > people taking more notice of gameplay and features > other than > graphics. Recent examples of this include, Doom3, > FEAR, Quake4 etc. > I think review sites have a role to play over here > as well. They can > start off by being more impartial. I won't mention > any names here, but > a lot of popular review sites have given > ridiculously good reviews to > very crappy/average games from big publishers. > > On the developer side, i think tight deadlines play > a major role in > them focusing their attention on the graphics side > alone i.e. taking > the easy way out. I don't blame them for that, > because they are > following a schedule given to them by the publisher > and they have to > follow it for their survival. > > On a lighter note, delays are getting very common > these days, even the > new year is getting delayed (if God is lagging > behind, we can't blame > game developers) :). > > On 12/27/05, Rodrigo <pha...@ya...> > wrote: > > > > Just to clarify: I DO believe graphics are very > important for games, and I > > also look for good graphics when buying games - > and you bet, it's one of the > > first things I look into - it's just not the only > one, nor the one who > > decides which game to buy ;) > > > > HOWEVER, since I don't have the time to play games > as I used to have when I > > was a kid, I sincerely search for my games that > are "worth of my time" - > > that means I won't spend some bucks on a game that > looks good but in the end > > proves itself boring by a bad storyline and poor > gameplay. Got my point? > > > > So I would *really* love to see other priorities - > like AI, physics and > > sound - go up on the developers' lists. I know the > publishers drive the > > market, and that's why I wrote all that: I'm sure > there are more people like > > me, who does not have much time to play or > whatever, which focus on other > > content instead of graphics when deciding which > game to buy. > > > > Rodrigo > > > > -----Mensagem original----- > > De: gda...@li... > > > [mailto:gda...@li...] > Em nome de Aras > > Pranckevicius > > Enviada em: ter�a-feira, 27 de dezembro de 2005 > 07:46 > > Para: gda...@li... > > Assunto: Re: RES: [Algorithms] What is next-gen > > > > Mat: > > > Please define considerable. > > > > #define considerable > > :) > > > > Guido: > > > As long as people buy these moronic games that > are out there, > > > publishers will keep producing them and flooding > us with games the > > > world doesn't need. > > > > The public gets what the public wants. I guess we > should stop whining about > > how poor the situation is and make something for a > change. Sure, the > > industry has lots (LOTS) of problems, but then - > every industry has them. > > > > -- > > Aras 'NeARAZ' Pranckevicius > > http://nesnausk.org/nearaz | > http://nearaz.blogspot.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do > you grep through log files > > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search > engine that makes > > searching your log files as easy as surfing the > web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id865&op=ick > > _______________________________________________ > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > > GDA...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > > Archives: > > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! doce lar. Fa�a do Yahoo! sua homepage. > > http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do > you grep through log files > > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search > engine that makes > > searching your log files as easy as surfing the > web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id865&opclick > > _______________________________________________ > > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > > GDA...@li... > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > > Archives: > > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > > > > > -- > Regards, > Zulfiqar Inayat Malik. > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do > you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search > engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the > web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id865&op=click > _______________________________________________ > GDAlgorithms-list mailing list > GDA...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gdalgorithms-list > Archives: > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_ida88 > __________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ |
From: Zulfiqar M. <zul...@gm...> - 2005-12-28 04:47:57
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What i meant was that Doom3, Q4 and FEAR had comparable graphics but Doom3 was rejected as being a bad game by the entire gaming community whereas Q4 and FEAR got much better comments from the community in general. On 12/27/05, Conor Stokes <bor...@ya...> wrote: > Actually, I think Quake 4 and FEAR are probably good > examples of what the next gen is moving towards. > Mainly the single player aspects. > > Quake 4 single player was immersive, had a well driven > story (for a Quake series game) and very good scripted > sequences. If you didn't play through the single > player Quake 4 you will have missed the very well > orchestrated side of it. Although, there were a few > bugs here and there :-). > > F.E.A.R again, play through the single player. The > story is well integrated and thought out and the > graphical effects used aren't just eye candy, they > really add a whole horror movie cinematic effect. The > AI is superb (it flanks, it covers, it flushes you > out, it calls for back-up) as is the audio (note the > mood setting music and the fairly seamless changes). > > Whether you liked these games or not, the single > player games ARE where the next gen is heading. > Especially F.E.A.R. - and the effects they use will be > likely a lot of the ones asked for on this list :-) > > But anyway, enough of this jibba-jabba. -- Regards, Zulfiqar Inayat Malik. |