I just saw your post. It should be so simple.
It's annoying when you can't find the probem.
I could wire the ns chip and pic on breadboard.
I used a board with the microchip version of the image with/without vdd.
What would scoping pins show?
I can get by with pk+ so will send to anobium.
"Stan to set the LVP bit. Simply erase. No other switch needs to be set. Then, NS should program it."
That's the first thing I did. It's supposed to set lvp bit.
In pk2+ there's a config option and I found a table of config bits for 18f25k22.
In the image is the lvp bit set?
The pic was erased with pk2+ but NS programmer still says not talking.
mclr,pgd,pgc from ns to pic connections ok. 5v on pic supply pins when plugged into usb.
I've tried 3 different boards with 18f25k22 and NS. All not talking.
just tried 18f2620...same.
the mask??? is 04 and I thought 4 is bit2 and it was set......so this "not talking" error is maybe not lvp problem.
It could be using vero, parallel tracks..hmmm
I tried 50KHz NS programmer setting.
I emailed ns.
I'll stick with pickit for now.
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I find my chart that I created very handy when swapping between devices. It lists the pin designations (GP.0, GP.1 or PortA.0, PortA.1 etc.) whether pins are I/O or In Only, the power connections and the programming pins. Very useful when wondering why the programming isn't working!
I use these PICs regularly.
I reckon that the 12F68 device should read 12F683 though...
I got a reply from NS, I said I made a usb powered 5V board but he replied that I made a powered board and sent circuit links for that.
He mentioned 18f2620 needs an extra pin .. PGM...marvelous. and a resistor...and vdd circuit?
The usb 5V board does not have LVP connected. For old pics it's connected to NS chip pin 2.
GCB is much more hobby level and fun with AVR chips.
The serial pin from the NSDSP chip 'RTS' doubles as the PGM pin. On my full sized board, I made the full serial port connections available so have this option. I've yet to need this connection though as I don't have any chips that require this.
I don't have a 10k resistor on the PGM pin though. I presume this stops the pin from floating when inbetween operations. If this turns out to be required, it would have to be added manually somehow, perhaps it could be 'wedged' in the ZIF socket? I would assume that if programming 'in circuit' and LVP was enabled, this resistor would be required to prevent the pin from floating and entering programming mode at random. When programming 'out of circuit' in a standalone programmer, I imagine that it would be less critical.
Last edit: mkstevo 2018-12-01
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@stan cartwright > "GCB is much more hobby level and fun with AVR chips."
Now I don't agree with that at all. I find the PIC a simpler device to understand - at least the devices I tend to use. I don't have to worry about oscillator circuits, oscillator fuse bits, none of that.
We service many items that have ATMega devices fitted to them. When the chips fail it is a royal pain trying to replace them, as even if you have the firmware file for them, if the fuse bits are not set correctly, the device won't work. I've spent days trying to pull good chips off working boards to read the configuration from them to program into a new device that doesn't start up as it has been set to the 'wrong' oscillator type. Then there are those that should be able to update through a serial interface. If the chip on those fail, even with the firmware and flashing software, if you can't load in the bootloader to allow the serial interface to communicate, you're stuffed. New PCB required from China at enormous expense.
So, for me, it's PICs all the way.
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Sorry, I don't have anything else to suggest to you.
Mine does appear to work on all of the devices I've tried, both using LVP (where the target device is set to use it) and using HVP (once the NSDSP software is set to use it) so either you have a faulty NSDSP 'chip' or your target devices are incompatible somehow.
If you wanted to post them to me, we could try and track down the cause of your problems?
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I ordered these cos usb and vero isn't fun.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arduino-3pcs-MICRO-B-USB-Female-Port-Connector-Breakout-Board-Socket-Power-NA279/223231916494?epid=19023855241&hash=item33f9a8b9ce:g:jacAAOSwPjhbu3VA:rk:8:pf:0
I'll bread board the NSchip.
I could try hvp. What's it need? 9V,12V? look as data sheets?...probably doesn't say but I thought modern pics were lvp only so that needs sorting.
I would think the chip works as usb is ok and the problem is with the pic data/clock.
If I knew what I was doing I'd scope the pic pins.
The pics are ok, I can program them with pk2/3.
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Thanks for the offer.
NS site has a hvp circuit. I'll stick a transistor on my board and retry. A 9V battery would be simplest solution. Least I'll know if it can program.
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Success at last! On the bread board circuit, I got pgd & pgc reversed.
0.54 second to flash .
Now to sort the vero circuit board.
edit..can't see a problem with the vero board. Maybe it's the parallel tracks. I'll make another one.
I finished a new design for vero then thought why am I always using a microchip icsp 6 pin plug on my pic projects that made it to vero board when the nsprog board would be better with 5 flying leads with plugs on the end, like bread board coloured jump leads. A few pins on the pic board for mclr,pdat.pclk,gnd,v+ and it's simpler than wiring a 6 pin connector...like I do for connecting to pickit 2/3.
I've learnt a bit more about pics from this experience...not much.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-12-10
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It programs the chip it is - 16f1454....without erasing to set lvp bit.
It's very fast compared with pickit2 - 3.
Have other users compared will it program all pics gcb supports?
Works ok with poor wiring and a zif socket...they're not obvious which way and where and the jumpers.
It programs most of the devices I use, mainly the 16F1825/1829. Not all of the devices that support ICSP, but Northern Software are considering adding some devices to the list of those that are compatible. I have requested that the 12F675 and 16F57 are added as I do use these from time to time. Should you use devices not currently compatible, I suggest you ask NS if they would consider including it in the future.
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Ta anobium for the list.
To sum up-
Thanks mkstevo for bringing the chip to our attention. It's an alternative to using pickit to flash gcb hex fies.
£4.50 for the chip is fine but add £7.50 for p&p and vat about £12.50 total. Adding a circuit board and sourcing parts costs more and things go wrong.
The ready made board 5V is 35 euros.
Ok it's faster than pickit so an option if you don't have pickit 2,3.
Is it an option to getting pickit plus for flashing newer chips because they're not supported using pickit 2,3 by microchip?
You can use the chip as a usb to ttl converter is a bonus and handy.
I suppose it depends on what your programming and how impatient you are.
Newer pics with pps are to me a pain setting up even with the cool pps tool..all that data sheet stuff.
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I just saw your post. It should be so simple.
It's annoying when you can't find the probem.
I could wire the ns chip and pic on breadboard.
I used a board with the microchip version of the image with/without vdd.
What would scoping pins show?
I can get by with pk+ so will send to anobium.
Stan to set the LVP bit. Simply erase. No other switch needs to be set. Then, NS should program it.
"Stan to set the LVP bit. Simply erase. No other switch needs to be set. Then, NS should program it."
That's the first thing I did. It's supposed to set lvp bit.
In pk2+ there's a config option and I found a table of config bits for 18f25k22.
In the image is the lvp bit set?
The pic was erased with pk2+ but NS programmer still says not talking.
mclr,pgd,pgc from ns to pic connections ok. 5v on pic supply pins when plugged into usb.
I've tried 3 different boards with 18f25k22 and NS. All not talking.
just tried 18f2620...same.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-11-29
The LVP bit is bit 2 of CONFIG4L. So yes, your image shows it to be set,
the mask??? is 04 and I thought 4 is bit2 and it was set......so this "not talking" error is maybe not lvp problem.
It could be using vero, parallel tracks..hmmm
I tried 50KHz NS programmer setting.
I emailed ns.
I'll stick with pickit for now.
NS website claims to support both 16f1454 and 18f25k22
I find my chart that I created very handy when swapping between devices. It lists the pin designations (GP.0, GP.1 or PortA.0, PortA.1 etc.) whether pins are I/O or In Only, the power connections and the programming pins. Very useful when wondering why the programming isn't working!
I use these PICs regularly.
I reckon that the 12F68 device should read 12F683 though...
Just tested this with a 18F2220, this device works, but as far as I can see, it is High Voltage Programming only?
I got a reply from NS, I said I made a usb powered 5V board but he replied that I made a powered board and sent circuit links for that.
He mentioned 18f2620 needs an extra pin .. PGM...marvelous. and a resistor...and vdd circuit?
The usb 5V board does not have LVP connected. For old pics it's connected to NS chip pin 2.
GCB is much more hobby level and fun with AVR chips.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-11-30
The serial pin from the NSDSP chip 'RTS' doubles as the PGM pin. On my full sized board, I made the full serial port connections available so have this option. I've yet to need this connection though as I don't have any chips that require this.
I don't have a 10k resistor on the PGM pin though. I presume this stops the pin from floating when inbetween operations. If this turns out to be required, it would have to be added manually somehow, perhaps it could be 'wedged' in the ZIF socket? I would assume that if programming 'in circuit' and LVP was enabled, this resistor would be required to prevent the pin from floating and entering programming mode at random. When programming 'out of circuit' in a standalone programmer, I imagine that it would be less critical.
Last edit: mkstevo 2018-12-01
@stan cartwright > "GCB is much more hobby level and fun with AVR chips."
Now I don't agree with that at all. I find the PIC a simpler device to understand - at least the devices I tend to use. I don't have to worry about oscillator circuits, oscillator fuse bits, none of that.
We service many items that have ATMega devices fitted to them. When the chips fail it is a royal pain trying to replace them, as even if you have the firmware file for them, if the fuse bits are not set correctly, the device won't work. I've spent days trying to pull good chips off working boards to read the configuration from them to program into a new device that doesn't start up as it has been set to the 'wrong' oscillator type. Then there are those that should be able to update through a serial interface. If the chip on those fail, even with the firmware and flashing software, if you can't load in the bootloader to allow the serial interface to communicate, you're stuffed. New PCB required from China at enormous expense.
So, for me, it's PICs all the way.
I added the 10K resistor and connected lvp to NS chip pin 2 but 18f2620 doesn't talk back either.
Sorry, I don't have anything else to suggest to you.
Mine does appear to work on all of the devices I've tried, both using LVP (where the target device is set to use it) and using HVP (once the NSDSP software is set to use it) so either you have a faulty NSDSP 'chip' or your target devices are incompatible somehow.
If you wanted to post them to me, we could try and track down the cause of your problems?
I ordered these cos usb and vero isn't fun.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arduino-3pcs-MICRO-B-USB-Female-Port-Connector-Breakout-Board-Socket-Power-NA279/223231916494?epid=19023855241&hash=item33f9a8b9ce:g:jacAAOSwPjhbu3VA:rk:8:pf:0
I'll bread board the NSchip.
I could try hvp. What's it need? 9V,12V? look as data sheets?...probably doesn't say but I thought modern pics were lvp only so that needs sorting.
I would think the chip works as usb is ok and the problem is with the pic data/clock.
If I knew what I was doing I'd scope the pic pins.
The pics are ok, I can program them with pk2/3.
Most recent PICs seem to use 9V for the HVP, the 16F57 that I sometimes use requires 12V but NSDSP don't yet support that device.
If planning on using HVP, don't forget you need some sort of inverter from the MCLR pin, and the NSDSP software set to use HVP too.
I imagine given how fast the programming procedure is, scoping the pins would show very little, if you were able to capture anything.
If you can obtain and solder the micro USB SMD connector, I could post you one of my small LVP pcb's?
Thanks for the offer.
NS site has a hvp circuit. I'll stick a transistor on my board and retry. A 9V battery would be simplest solution. Least I'll know if it can program.
I used a 9V, PP3 (MN1604?) type battery on my HVP prototype. It took up too much room for the 'finished' design though. Hence the lithium coin cells.
The problem being that if your existing prototype isn't working for LVP, it might not work for HVP either?
Handy and cheap https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MT3608-2A-DC-DC-Voltage-Step-Up-Regulator-Boost-Converter-Like-LM2577-XL6009-/132860039749
I thought 13V was used for hvp, I want lvp sorted first but trying hvp is an option I'll try on breadboard after trying lvp.
Awaiting usb socket breakout board as the type b socket I used, d+/d- was tricky to solder...but if the connection was dodgy windows would beep.
I can't see the nschip part working
New usb sockets and trying on breadboard but pic still not talking.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-12-09
Success at last! On the bread board circuit, I got pgd & pgc reversed.
0.54 second to flash .
Now to sort the vero circuit board.
edit..can't see a problem with the vero board. Maybe it's the parallel tracks. I'll make another one.
I finished a new design for vero then thought why am I always using a microchip icsp 6 pin plug on my pic projects that made it to vero board when the nsprog board would be better with 5 flying leads with plugs on the end, like bread board coloured jump leads. A few pins on the pic board for mclr,pdat.pclk,gnd,v+ and it's simpler than wiring a 6 pin connector...like I do for connecting to pickit 2/3.
I've learnt a bit more about pics from this experience...not much.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-12-10
It programs the chip it is - 16f1454....without erasing to set lvp bit.
It's very fast compared with pickit2 - 3.
Have other users compared will it program all pics gcb supports?
Works ok with poor wiring and a zif socket...they're not obvious which way and where and the jumpers.
Last edit: stan cartwright 2018-12-10
It programs most of the devices I use, mainly the 16F1825/1829. Not all of the devices that support ICSP, but Northern Software are considering adding some devices to the list of those that are compatible. I have requested that the 12F675 and 16F57 are added as I do use these from time to time. Should you use devices not currently compatible, I suggest you ask NS if they would consider including it in the future.
A list of supported parts from an alternative programmer. :-)
Ta anobium for the list.
To sum up-
Thanks mkstevo for bringing the chip to our attention. It's an alternative to using pickit to flash gcb hex fies.
£4.50 for the chip is fine but add £7.50 for p&p and vat about £12.50 total. Adding a circuit board and sourcing parts costs more and things go wrong.
The ready made board 5V is 35 euros.
Ok it's faster than pickit so an option if you don't have pickit 2,3.
Is it an option to getting pickit plus for flashing newer chips because they're not supported using pickit 2,3 by microchip?
You can use the chip as a usb to ttl converter is a bonus and handy.
I suppose it depends on what your programming and how impatient you are.
Newer pics with pps are to me a pain setting up even with the cool pps tool..all that data sheet stuff.
Anything I should add to.... http://gcbasic.sourceforge.net/Typesetter/index.php/News/19_Northern_Software_Review