Re: [GATOS]tv out [please read this is not another is tv out supported]

[Cam <ca...@me...>]

Lourens

> Well, you could use that output to record copyrighted works (a DVD 
> perhaps) to video right? The TV-Out capable driver would enable you 
> to do that if it didn't turn on Macrovision. And if it didn't, it 
> would be a device enabling you to circumvent digital copyright 
> protection, and thus be prohibited under the DMCA. So what if we 
> had an open source driver that did turn on Macrovision? Well, it's 
> open source right? So anyone can modify it (probably trivially, ie. 
> commenting out a line of code) to not turn on Macrovision. Then 
> doesn't that still make it a device that enables someone (by 
> slightly modifying and then using) to circumvent digital copyright 
> protection?

I'm based in the UK and I'm not sure to what extent the DMCA applies. Do 
you think that it would be OK for USA citizens to use a driver just 
because it was written in an obscure country?

In the case you describe, isn't it more likely that someone is breaking 
the DMCA by using software to decode the DVD contents? That is digital, 
whereas the TV out is analogue. The TV out is being used but it's use is 
incidental to the offence. It's like saying the TV out is responsible if 
you bludgeon someone to death with the card (presumably after buying it 
and finding it's not supported!).

If we wrote a driver in good faith that turns on a generic out-of-range 
sync signal during the flyback period (to fool the AGC on a video 
recorder), would we be at risk of prosecution? How would the author of 
that driver be any more to blame than ATI, who made the hardware? Sure 
someone could modify it to remove the signal, but would that implicate 
the author of the driver?

I bought a TV-out card so I could output the display to a TV screen, and 
that is all. Most of the time I won't be watching movies on the screen, 
and the only use I can think of for recording to VHS is to send a photo 
album to Granny. I could probably do this with existing drivers (vesa), 
or with a simple dongle and some crafty modelines that turn the SVGA 
output into RGB+composite sync (http://www.sput.nl/hardware/tv-x.html) - 
no tv-out hardware needed.

I wonder if any corporations are interested in prosecuting someone who 
makes TV-out work. If you have a copyrighted, decrypted work on your 
hard disk, you can illegally p2p share it, you could illegally burn it 
onto CDs or DVDs. Those sorts of activities could be a big threat to the 
copyright holder. You could spool it out to VHS in real-time but I'm 
guessing that such activities would not be a large threat.

Macrovision is probably (I'm guessing about the business model) used 
under license. So it's not likely that an open source driver would be 
able to implement it - unless you had permission from them to include 
the signal that prevents video recording.

> The DMCA and similar laws are unclear about this, and there isn't 
> much case law yet. Would you risk going to jail over TV-out? Or pay 
> for a lawyer to defend yourself even if eventually you were found 
> innocent?

I can sympathise with USA residents who are concerned over it, but at 
the same time I find it hard to believe that it could happen in the UK. 
The legal system here might not be perfect but they usually seem to be 
reasonable and fair. To summarise:

* there is already support for TV-out using the vesa drivers
* there is already hardware for TV-out
* TV-out is analogue, not digital
* TV-out is not primarily designed to circumvent copy protection
* TV-out has substantial legitimate uses
* TV-out is not marketed for use in circumvention
* there are legitimate uses for viewing the TV-out signal on a TV
* there are legitimate uses for recording the TV-out signal
* who is going to prosecute someone who writes a driver?

Incidentally, how does this work on other OSs? Is the Macrovision signal 
turned on and off by the DVD decoder software? Is the signal always 
present? When I've got a spare moment I'm going to try recording from 
the TV-out in vesa mode and see if it works...

-Cam